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Day 4 and i woke up coughing up the most phlegm i've ever seen in my life, my tongue is thick white, it looks like a geography map, this is either a sign of detox or an infection, i hope the former. Bentonite clay is constipating, need cascara sagrada to arrive to get my bowels moving. I had 3 quarts of watermelon, spring greens, kale and lime juice yesterday, very nice.
let the bentonite soak in water before you take it. I let it soak for at least half an hour, usually I let it soak over night and then mix it with PH to make a P&B shake which I down right away. White tongue is probably detox, at least this is a detox symptom I get from for instance liv52 or lemon juice, but it gets better over time.
Day 4 and i woke up coughing up the most phlegm i've ever seen in my life, my tongue is thick white, it looks like a geography map, this is either a sign of detox or an infection, i hope the former. Bentonite clay is constipating, need cascara sagrada to arrive to get my bowels moving. I had 3 quarts of watermelon, spring greens, kale and lime juice yesterday, very nice.
let the bentonite soak in water before you take it. I let it soak for at least half an hour, usually I let it soak over night and then mix it with PH to make a P&B shake which I down right away. White tongue is probably detox, at least this is a detox symptom I get from for instance liv52 or lemon juice, but it gets better over time.
I think your right about the white tongue being detox, i use yerba prima bentonite clay, which is already hydrated with water so that saves a bit of time.
Day 5 the sinuses are still the same, constantly sneezing and have had a runny nose all day. 2.5 quarts of juice today, pineapple, kale ginger juice and
apple, spring green ginger and lime juice, again it was very nice. 1 P & B shake, lots of water.
Chico perhaps throw in some garlic tea into the mix that's what I do if I'm under the weather , crush some garlic bulbs this is important to release the healing compounds ( allicin etc. ) then steam some water up and mix the brew let sit for a few minutes and enjoy . I found this is much better than eating raw garlic as it is quite harsh . The hot water dilutes the solution to make it palatable , works great.
all of u with IBS symptoms check out FODMAP:
Chico Esposito,
That's the million dollar question right. How do we get rid of Accutane and its secondary metabolites. No one knows for sure. Only things we can do are:
1). Healthy diet. Seek out healthy foods that are proven to have detox properties. Again, I would seek out a good nutritional scientist and get professional advice
2). Take the Vitamins I listed above or whatever else works for you
3). Make sure you get enough sleep. This is when your body repairs. Your liver filters your blood throughout the day. But between 1-3am, it repairs itself and detoxes the most.
In terms of repairs, I think the priority should first be your Liver and Intestines. If you don't have a healthy GI tract, you wont properly absorb the food and vitamins needed to fight Accutane. Your joints and everything else weakens even more since they are not getting enough nutrients. Also, if you liver is healthy, it should be able to slowly rid of these fat soluble toxins. So without a good functioning liver and GI tract, none of our other problems will get better.
Next should be your joints. Once the poison is out, your joint fluids will come back. But, the key is to prevent cartilage damage in the meantime. Once damaged, they wont grow back even when the effects of accutane is gone.
Question: Does exercise and sweating help at all??? I recently tried two days of intense aerobic exercise, full body sweat and all. Within a few hours after, I noticed increased cracking and pain in my wrists even though I didnt exercise them - I ran on the treadmill. This is pretty clear evidence to me that the poison is still stored in my fat cells. The exercise shook them loose and circulated them to my wrists and other body parts. My question is can sweating eliminate fat soluble toxins or does it simply shake them loose and then redeposit again?
JTM88 and sunnyhatesacne thank you for your fantastic posts, and welcome too you both. Hypervitaminosis A is the cause, the excess fat soluble vitamin A is in the fat, the question is how do we get it out of the body?
JTM88 and sunnyhatesacne thank you for your fantastic posts, and welcome too you both. Hypervitaminosis A is the cause, the excess fat soluble vitamin A is in the fat, the question is how do we get it out of the body?
Thanks JTM88 for your reply and Chico for your encouragement...
Let me give u a quick update of what i have been trying to do first by trying telling my symptoms for the accutane:
- Really have a bad headache which persists on and off for a while.. I have been physiotherapist and they can relieve it by pressing some nerves on my neck.. This headache is relived for a while and then comes back again to haunt me..
I have tried the following procedure for the last 7 days and wanted to give a quick update. The procedure is called " Ayurveda Panchkarma". The Panchkarma procedure means to cleanse the toxins from the body. According to it you have to consume the Ghee or Sesame oil for 7 continuous day in the morning. By consuming the Ghee in the morning you are basically introducing the fat into your body. This fat will dissolve with the other fat in your body and all pull the fat from your cells which are retinoid. Once this fat is pulled you basically need to cleanse this fat with a laxative like prune juice or some herbs like Triphalla.. This is a very specialized procedure and requires the Ayurveda teacher to administer this whole process..
I have tried this procedure for complete 7 days with whatever knowledge that i can find from the internet...
Summary of results :
1. My Headache was not that bad when i was consuming Ghee. Actually i found that the headache shifted from my head to my lower back.. Whenever i had headaches i would have no pain in the back and vice -versa.. So, the accutane is actually moving from my head to the stomach..
2. My stomach was having lot of pain when consuming Ghee.. Also, when i went to the washroom i was having lot of pain.. This confirms that accutane was definately going to my stomach.
3. I lost approximately 2 kgs weight in last 7 days.
I had stopped this Panchkarma procedure as I really got scared that may be i was making my body too sick by using only limited knowledge of what ever i could find from internet.
I am trying to save some money and thinking of going to an Ayurvedic Doctor who can help with the cleansing but i definitely feel that accutane can be cleansed off the body by the help of Panchkarma..
One thing i forgot to tell that when I did the Panchkarma for 7 days.. I also got 2 acnes on my face... It's ironical that i took the accutane for acne and was able to get rid of all acne problems with it (expect i got bunch of more serious health issues).. I guess i don't care for acne as getting my health back is my only priority now...
I know Human body is really incredible and given right time it will bounce back for sure...
Digestion 101 on Fat and it's effect on Liver / Accutane
Digestion 101:
The fat digestion starts when we start consuming the food in the mouth.. The Lipase enzyme starts working on the fatty food in our mouth.. The fatty food is hydrophobic so it doesn't get absorbed in the stomach.. When the liver senses the fatty food it triggers the secretion of bile acid which is released from the gall bladder. The bile acid emulsifies the fatty acid (triglycerides) and then it moves to the small intestine . Small intestine has large no of villi which help to break the emulsified fat which go to the blood stream and is absorbed by cells.. The emulsified fatty acid is converted back into the bile acid and is restored into the gallbladder. This process is called Enterohepatic circulation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterohepatic_circulation
Accutane:
Accutane in reality is nothing but fat that we are consuming.. So, what happens is that when we consume lot of Vitamin A.. It is absorbed and stored in to our liver..
- Excessive vitamin A in liver --> Bile acid have Vitamin A --> IBS
- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Excessive Vitamin A in cells --> Dry skin
- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Excessive Vitamin in A in hair --> loss of hair
- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Less Vitamin D as they compete ---> Bone loss as calcium absorption depends on Vitamin D, Muscle pain
-Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Less Vitamin E as they compete ---> Less oxidation and muscle pain.
The problem is that since our body has a very good Enterohepatic circulation . The fat is re-circulated in our body very well and we can't really help with it...
Solution I think will work:
-- Consuming a balanced fat ( Coconut oil/ Seasame oil/ Oliver oil/ Ghee) like we did for Acccutane.. It should be consumed early morning as liver is most active in early morning.
-- Consuming the foods that increase the bile acid production
http://www.livestrong.com/article/535096-foods-that-increase-bile-flow/
-- Consuming the foods that help to break the Enterohepatic Circulation by binding the fat into the stool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_acid_sequestrant
The natural foods that are rich in binding the fat are natural fibres like psyllium husk, prune juice...
Disclaimer : Remember all these things addition to your diet will initially load the liver so we need to take easy on our liver during this time.. Like the same precaution to follow what we followed when we were on Accutane like no drinking alchoal, rise of cholesterol, higher lipid profile tests as liver is working really hard.
Let me know what do u think about it?
Digestion 101 on Fat and it's effect on Liver / Accutane
Digestion 101:
The fat digestion starts when we start consuming the food in the mouth.. The Lipase enzyme starts working on the fatty food in our mouth.. The fatty food is hydrophobic so it doesn't get absorbed in the stomach.. When the liver senses the fatty food it triggers the secretion of bile acid which is released from the gall bladder. The bile acid emulsifies the fatty acid (triglycerides) and then it moves to the small intestine . Small intestine has large no of villi which help to break the emulsified fat which go to the blood stream and is absorbed by cells.. The emulsified fatty acid is converted back into the bile acid and is restored into the gallbladder. This process is called Enterohepatic circulation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterohepatic_circulation
Accutane:
Accutane in reality is nothing but fat that we are consuming.. So, what happens is that when we consume lot of Vitamin A.. It is absorbed and stored in to our liver..
- Excessive vitamin A in liver --> Bile acid have Vitamin A --> IBS
- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Excessive Vitamin A in cells --> Dry skin
- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Excessive Vitamin in A in hair --> loss of hair
- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Less Vitamin D as they compete ---> Bone loss as calcium absorption depends on Vitamin D, Muscle pain
-Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Less Vitamin E as they compete ---> Less oxidation and muscle pain.
The problem is that since our body has a very good Enterohepatic circulation . The fat is re-circulated in our body very well and we can't really help with it...
Solution I think will work:
-- Consuming a balanced fat ( Coconut oil/ Seasame oil/ Oliver oil/ Ghee) like we did for Acccutane.. It should be consumed early morning as liver is most active in early morning.
-- Consuming the foods that increase the bile acid production
http://www.livestrong.com/article/535096-foods-that-increase-bile-flow/
-- Consuming the foods that help to break the Enterohepatic Circulation by binding the fat into the stool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_acid_sequestrant
The natural foods that are rich in binding the fat are natural fibres like psyllium husk, prune juice...
Disclaimer : Remember all these things addition to your diet will initially load the liver so we need to take easy on our liver during this time.. Like the same precaution to follow what we followed when we were on Accutane like no drinking alchoal, rise of cholesterol, higher lipid profile tests as liver is working really hard.
Let me know what do u think about it?
That all sounds great only problem is that ACCUTANE ISN'T VITAMIN A , it's a SYNTHETIC DRUG and acts totally different than a natural form of vit A ,
even ROCHE states we don't know the mechanism behind isotretinoin , but as I have said before I bet they do....
Accutane is not vitamin A. The body handles it differently from natural vitamin A (see Figure 4) and there are a number of lines of evidence showing that it acts as an anti-vitamin A compound that can aggravate vitamin A deficiency. In newborn mice treated with dexamethasone, a drug that induces emphysema-like changes to lung tissue, natural vitamin A helps treat the disorder while the active ingredient of Accutane has no effect and may even make it worse.30 Accutane caused night blindness, a traditional sign of vitamin A deficiency, in a child with cystic fibrosis, whereas vitamin A supplementation resolved the night blindness.31 In rats, the active ingredient of this drug accumulates in the eyes and interferes with vitamin A recycling; rats taking it at high doses took fifty times longer to recover from exposure to intense light than rats that did not take the drug at all.32
A physician published a letter earlier this year reporting that two patients developed depression on Accutane; when the physician took them off the drug and supplemented them with 10-12,000 IU of vitamin A for seven to ten days, the depression resolved and they were able to go back on the drug without it recurring.33 The totality of the evidence strongly suggests that vitamin A deficiency contributes to depression and that Accutane is associated with this mental illness because it interferes with vitamin A metabolism.
Ironically, in order to understand the connection of vitamin D with mental health, we must examine the next criticism levied against vitamin A.
Vitamin D and Eskimo Hysteria
Recent reviews reference a 1985 paper arguing that the high intake of vitamin A among the Arctic Inuit was responsible for a phenomenon of hysteria that they called pibloktoq.34 This disorder involves several days of irritability or withdrawal, a sudden excitation wherein the victim flees the camp and engages in irrational and dangerous behavior, convulsive seizures, a twelve-hour period of coma or stuporous sleep, and a return to normal. The author offers the following lines of evidence supporting a tie to vitamin A toxicity: the Inuit consider polar bear liver, which is the richest source of vitamin A, to be toxic; explorers who eat polar bear liver out of necessity experience drowsiness, irritability, headaches, and nausea within hours of consuming it; and case reports of vitamin A toxicity involve irritability, drowsiness, double vision and anorexia.
Even within this paper the author mentions numerous facts that make this hypothesis problematic. The specific symptoms of pibloktoq are limited to the Arctic and Antarctic and tend to occur in the late winter and early spring. There is no compelling explanation for why vitamin A toxicity would fall within these geographical and seasonal restrictions. The Inuit consider polar bear liver safe as long as the membrane is removed and consider seal liver, which contains half as much vitamin A, safe to eat in unlimited quantities. If vitamin A were the toxic component of polar bear liver, the cultural prohibition against eating the membrane would therefore be useless. Finally, vitamin A toxicity generally accompanies chronically high intakes over time, usually of chemically altered supplemental forms, whereas the hysterical episodes found among the Inuit are acute and sporadic.
In 1972, another author offered a much better hypothesis tying the episodes to hypocalcemic tetany, a disorder of involuntary muscle contractions accompanying severe deficiencies of calcium and vitamin D.35 The muscle contractions occur because the peripheral nerves cannot regulate their impulses in the absence of calcium. The disorder is often accompanied by emotional and cognitive disorganization and convulsive seizures, probably resulting from the absence of calcium in the central nervous system. Like pibloktoq, episodes are acute and sporadic.
Populations that inhabit areas of the Arctic where fishing is limited or the weather is unsuitable for drying fishthe primary source of vitamin D and calcium in the Inuit diethave high rates of tetany in infants and muscle cramps, a related symptom, in adults. The bone disease rickets, by contrast, is extremely rare, suggesting that in the physically demanding environment of the Arctic, the Inuit have adapted by giving skeletal development priority over the nervous system. The Inuit have inherited numerous cultural adaptations centered on providing sufficient calcium and vitamin D to the members of their groups, especially to pregnant and lactating women, reinforcing the concept that vitamin D and calcium are periodically limiting factors for good health in these populations.
If we are to investigate the mechanism by which vitamin D may be involved in this illness, we should look first of all to its primary functionmaintaining calcium status. One compelling explanation for how vitamin D may prevent the convulsive seizures associated with hypocalcemic tetany and pibloktoq is that it supplies the calcium necessary for the production of endocannabinoids. The marijuana derivative hashish has been used since at least the fifteenth century to treat epilepsy. More recent research has shown that the endocannabinoids named after this drug are powerful inhibitors of glutamate toxicity and many other seizure-promoting excitotoxins. Boosting their levels in the brain helps prevent the experimental induction of seizures, while depleting or antagonizing them lowers the amount of drugs necessary to induce seizures.36
The production of endocannabinoids from arachidonic acid is critically dependent on the supply of calcium since it is the influx of this mineral into the cell that turns on the enzymes responsible for this conversion.17 At a minimum, vitamin D is required to supply sufficient calcium to the brain in order for this influx to take place. Since some cells use vitamin D as a signal to open calcium channels and allow a rapid influx of calcium,19 it is possible that brain cells require vitamin D for endocannabinoid production in this way as well.
Lose of Night Vision is mostly likely due to excessive drying of the hyaluronic acid in your eyes.
Highly unlikely Accutane causes Vitamin A deficiency. All evidence from doctors, biochemists, indicate that Accutane is very similar to Vitamin A. Also, most of us eat lots of vegetables as we are trying to fix our bodies. So shoudnt have Vitamin A deficiency.
Digestion 101 on Fat and it's effect on Liver / Accutane
Digestion 101:
The fat digestion starts when we start consuming the food in the mouth.. The Lipase enzyme starts working on the fatty food in our mouth.. The fatty food is hydrophobic so it doesn't get absorbed in the stomach.. When the liver senses the fatty food it triggers the secretion of bile acid which is released from the gall bladder. The bile acid emulsifies the fatty acid (triglycerides) and then it moves to the small intestine . Small intestine has large no of villi which help to break the emulsified fat which go to the blood stream and is absorbed by cells.. The emulsified fatty acid is converted back into the bile acid and is restored into the gallbladder. This process is called Enterohepatic circulation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterohepatic_circulation
Accutane:
Accutane in reality is nothing but fat that we are consuming.. So, what happens is that when we consume lot of Vitamin A.. It is absorbed and stored in to our liver..
- Excessive vitamin A in liver --> Bile acid have Vitamin A --> IBS
- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Excessive Vitamin A in cells --> Dry skin
- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Excessive Vitamin in A in hair --> loss of hair
- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Less Vitamin D as they compete ---> Bone loss as calcium absorption depends on Vitamin D, Muscle pain
-Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Less Vitamin E as they compete ---> Less oxidation and muscle pain.
The problem is that since our body has a very good Enterohepatic circulation . The fat is re-circulated in our body very well and we can't really help with it...
Solution I think will work:
-- Consuming a balanced fat ( Coconut oil/ Seasame oil/ Oliver oil/ Ghee) like we did for Acccutane.. It should be consumed early morning as liver is most active in early morning.
-- Consuming the foods that increase the bile acid production
http://www.livestrong.com/article/535096-foods-that-increase-bile-flow/
-- Consuming the foods that help to break the Enterohepatic Circulation by binding the fat into the stool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_acid_sequestrant
The natural foods that are rich in binding the fat are natural fibres like psyllium husk, prune juice...
Disclaimer : Remember all these things addition to your diet will initially load the liver so we need to take easy on our liver during this time.. Like the same precaution to follow what we followed when we were on Accutane like no drinking alchoal, rise of cholesterol, higher lipid profile tests as liver is working really hard.
Let me know what do u think about it?
That all sounds great only problem is that ACCUTANE ISN'T VITAMIN A , it's a SYNTHETIC DRUG and acts totally different than a natural form of vit A ,
even ROCHE states we don't know the mechanism behind isotretinoin , but as I have said before I bet they do....
Accutane is not vitamin A. The body handles it differently from natural vitamin A (see Figure 4) and there are a number of lines of evidence showing that it acts as an anti-vitamin A compound that can aggravate vitamin A deficiency. In newborn mice treated with dexamethasone, a drug that induces emphysema-like changes to lung tissue, natural vitamin A helps treat the disorder while the active ingredient of Accutane has no effect and may even make it worse.30 Accutane caused night blindness, a traditional sign of vitamin A deficiency, in a child with cystic fibrosis, whereas vitamin A supplementation resolved the night blindness.31 In rats, the active ingredient of this drug accumulates in the eyes and interferes with vitamin A recycling; rats taking it at high doses took fifty times longer to recover from exposure to intense light than rats that did not take the drug at all.32
A physician published a letter earlier this year reporting that two patients developed depression on Accutane; when the physician took them off the drug and supplemented them with 10-12,000 IU of vitamin A for seven to ten days, the depression resolved and they were able to go back on the drug without it recurring.33 The totality of the evidence strongly suggests that vitamin A deficiency contributes to depression and that Accutane is associated with this mental illness because it interferes with vitamin A metabolism.
Ironically, in order to understand the connection of vitamin D with mental health, we must examine the next criticism levied against vitamin A.
Vitamin D and Eskimo Hysteria
Recent reviews reference a 1985 paper arguing that the high intake of vitamin A among the Arctic Inuit was responsible for a phenomenon of hysteria that they called pibloktoq.34 This disorder involves several days of irritability or withdrawal, a sudden excitation wherein the victim flees the camp and engages in irrational and dangerous behavior, convulsive seizures, a twelve-hour period of coma or stuporous sleep, and a return to normal. The author offers the following lines of evidence supporting a tie to vitamin A toxicity: the Inuit consider polar bear liver, which is the richest source of vitamin A, to be toxic; explorers who eat polar bear liver out of necessity experience drowsiness, irritability, headaches, and nausea within hours of consuming it; and case reports of vitamin A toxicity involve irritability, drowsiness, double vision and anorexia.
Even within this paper the author mentions numerous facts that make this hypothesis problematic. The specific symptoms of pibloktoq are limited to the Arctic and Antarctic and tend to occur in the late winter and early spring. There is no compelling explanation for why vitamin A toxicity would fall within these geographical and seasonal restrictions. The Inuit consider polar bear liver safe as long as the membrane is removed and consider seal liver, which contains half as much vitamin A, safe to eat in unlimited quantities. If vitamin A were the toxic component of polar bear liver, the cultural prohibition against eating the membrane would therefore be useless. Finally, vitamin A toxicity generally accompanies chronically high intakes over time, usually of chemically altered supplemental forms, whereas the hysterical episodes found among the Inuit are acute and sporadic.
In 1972, another author offered a much better hypothesis tying the episodes to hypocalcemic tetany, a disorder of involuntary muscle contractions accompanying severe deficiencies of calcium and vitamin D.35 The muscle contractions occur because the peripheral nerves cannot regulate their impulses in the absence of calcium. The disorder is often accompanied by emotional and cognitive disorganization and convulsive seizures, probably resulting from the absence of calcium in the central nervous system. Like pibloktoq, episodes are acute and sporadic.
Populations that inhabit areas of the Arctic where fishing is limited or the weather is unsuitable for drying fishthe primary source of vitamin D and calcium in the Inuit diethave high rates of tetany in infants and muscle cramps, a related symptom, in adults. The bone disease rickets, by contrast, is extremely rare, suggesting that in the physically demanding environment of the Arctic, the Inuit have adapted by giving skeletal development priority over the nervous system. The Inuit have inherited numerous cultural adaptations centered on providing sufficient calcium and vitamin D to the members of their groups, especially to pregnant and lactating women, reinforcing the concept that vitamin D and calcium are periodically limiting factors for good health in these populations.
If we are to investigate the mechanism by which vitamin D may be involved in this illness, we should look first of all to its primary functionmaintaining calcium status. One compelling explanation for how vitamin D may prevent the convulsive seizures associated with hypocalcemic tetany and pibloktoq is that it supplies the calcium necessary for the production of endocannabinoids. The marijuana derivative hashish has been used since at least the fifteenth century to treat epilepsy. More recent research has shown that the endocannabinoids named after this drug are powerful inhibitors of glutamate toxicity and many other seizure-promoting excitotoxins. Boosting their levels in the brain helps prevent the experimental induction of seizures, while depleting or antagonizing them lowers the amount of drugs necessary to induce seizures.36
The production of endocannabinoids from arachidonic acid is critically dependent on the supply of calcium since it is the influx of this mineral into the cell that turns on the enzymes responsible for this conversion.17 At a minimum, vitamin D is required to supply sufficient calcium to the brain in order for this influx to take place. Since some cells use vitamin D as a signal to open calcium channels and allow a rapid influx of calcium,19 it is possible that brain cells require vitamin D for endocannabinoid production in this way as well.
Accutane is a derivative of Vit A and Roche states that! In fact that why they state not to take any supplements with Vit A in it. I read in the holistic section of people taking massive doses of Vit A and having the same issues including hair loss, bone loss, pseudo tumor etc... Some got better stopping after a while, other not so lucky.
Vitamin A: Because of the relationship of Accutane to vitamin A, patients should be advised against taking vitamin supplements containing vitamin A to avoid additive toxic effects
Some of the side effects that deficiency can cause so can overdose! They warn against pregnant women not to take a separate Vit A supplement as they state it is in the prenatal vitamin and can cause birth defects etc... It also states that those with liver or diabetes (hmm) should not take Vit A without supervision of a physician.
I could go and get in the bio and similarities but that's too much for me. I will say that it is also noted that
Retinoids -- These medications are a synthetic form of vitamin A and are sometimes prescribed in high doses. People who take retinoids should not take any additional vitamin A supplements.
I have only read one victim of having Vit A deficiency and he could only digest Vit A through I.V. otherwise his issues from Accutane became 10x worse. He is a long time survivor and it took 10yrs to get a dx of his autoimmune intestinal disorder. In which is probably why he became deficient as it is noted that people with gastric, chron's, IBD, etc... are prone to Vitamin Def. along with I am sure the receptors,absorption of Vit A etc... Is quite Fed up ***quite ironic to me right take a drug (Accutane) that killed your gut and then you become deficient in retinol/vit a and you can't take the crap but by i.v. as it gets worse!**********
I was right on the border of high levels 6 months after and have had night vision problems since Accutane, still wear glasses to drive at night. I had retinol form checked.
Either way Accutane is pure poison!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Accutane is a derivative of Vit A and Roche states that! In fact that why they state not to take any supplements with Vit A in it. I read in the holistic section of people taking massive doses of Vit A and having the same issues including hair loss, bone loss, pseudo tumor etc... Some got better stopping after a while, other not so lucky.
Vitamin A: Because of the relationship of Accutane to vitamin A, patients should be advised against taking vitamin supplements containing vitamin A to avoid additive toxic effects
Some of the side effects that deficiency can cause so can overdose! They warn against pregnant women not to take a separate Vit A supplement as they state it is in the prenatal vitamin and can cause birth defects etc... It also states that those with liver or diabetes (hmm) should not take Vit A without supervision of a physician.
I could go and get in the bio and similarities but that's too much for me. I will say that it is also noted that
Retinoids -- These medications are a synthetic form of vitamin A and are sometimes prescribed in high doses. People who take retinoids should not take any additional vitamin A supplements.
I have only read one victim of having Vit A deficiency and he could only digest Vit A through I.V. otherwise his issues from Accutane became 10x worse. He is a long time survivor and it took 10yrs to get a dx of his autoimmune intestinal disorder. In which is probably why he became deficient as it is noted that people with gastric, chron's, IBD, etc... are prone to Vitamin Def. along with I am sure the receptors,absorption of Vit A etc... Is quite Fed up ***quite ironic to me right take a drug (Accutane) that killed your gut and then you become deficient in retinol/vit a and you can't take the crap but by i.v. as it gets worse!**********
I was right on the border of high levels 6 months after and have had night vision problems since Accutane, still wear glasses to drive at night. I had retinol form checked.
Either way Accutane is pure poison!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+1
Thanks Gladiatoro, Undergroundwellness, JTM88, oli girl for your healthy discussion.. I am pretty sure we can definitely find something for curing ourselves...
The main point i was trying to make was that we all agree that Accutane is inside our system.. I was trying to decipher with my research why Accutane is still inside us.. I Strongly believe it is due to "Enterohepatic Cycle" of our body..
From what i understand the liver --> Bile acids from Gall bladder --> Emulsifies fat --> small intestine --> converted back to Bile acid --> stored in Gall bladder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterohepatic_cycle (Look at the diagram it makes sense)
So, we all agree Accutane is stored in our body which can be understood by Enterohepatic cycle. So Accutane is stored in
- Liver
- All body cells
So, any removal of Accutane should involve following steps:
1. Removal from Liver, fatty body cells
2. Excretion through our body
Removal
Liver:
- Any diet that increases the production of bile acid in our body.. Eating Good fatty foods (Olive oil, Coconut oil, seasame oil, Desi Ghee) , Dandelion Root, Milk Thistle, Garlic, etc etc etc... These will boost liver to produce more bile acids.
Fatty body cells:
- Liver directly removes toxins from fatty cells but if we want to go one step further then we can do oil massage, sauna, epsom salt bath etc...
Excretion through our body:
Stool:
- We want to break the Enterohepatic cycle so we should take Zeolithes, Charcoal, Bentonite, Psyllium , prune juice and other healing clays.. Once the accutane is removed from our liver in form of bile acid it will go to the small intestine we need to bind it with these enterohepatic cycle breaker to get rid through stool..
Sweat:
- The use of sauna, massage, epson salt will helps us remove toxins direclty through sweat..
Remember when we are removing the accutane from our body things will get much much worse... Our symptoms for accutane will get much worse before we start to see the things get better as we are introducing accutane into our body.. which will be relieved through stool/ sweat..
Our body is designed to recover from any trauma, stress/ shocks. We all are young people who have made 1 foolish mistake and together we can get rid of the accutane once and forever.. Also, we have corrupted our body with accutane by taking it over couple of months.. So, we can't expect anything to happen over night.. Perseverance with get us there...
I would think that the followings supps would break the Enterohepatic Cycle:
Zeolithes
Charcoal
Bentonite
Other healing earths and clays
random update: taking digestive enzymes and now I can finally go to the bathroom everyday! My periodontist ( who I now have to see for serious gum recession) took a low dose of accutane is very aware of side effects. He recommended this to me and I didn't think anything of it, but it was a nice quick fix...if you've been dealing with none of these enzymes for a LONG TIME like me, expect diarrhea at first.... now i just need to figure out why my skin is not healing...at all...bruises and stuff underneath skin heals, but just not the very top layer....I'm taking B, vitamin C to target it but not noticing any improvements..
I think due to the depletion of minerals and vitamins in our bodies, symptoms stay and worsen by time. Have the feeling that could be the main reason for most of the sides. Some people here had enormous success with high iodine intake and reverse allover dryness, if that's not something. Maybe not working for everyone, guess we have to locate our empty depots separately.
Wrote it down here already, but I had weeks of fresh pressed carrot juice everyday and nothing happend, not everyone has too much vitamin a or problems with it.
Gained quite some weight after accutane (ate too much carbs and fat) and decided to make a diet at some point. (Had no idea what accutane had done to me at this point) However, I lost 12 kilograms within 2 month and lost a lot of fat, most of my muscles stayed. Just wanted to mention it, because not one side effect got better due to the fatloss.
Beginning of this thread, around page 40,50,60 a lot of people tried already getting rid of accutane in their fat cells by a lot of detox herbs,supps and specific liver/gallbladder/kidney nutrition and had no success at all. I myself tried the perfect detox nutrition and chinese medicine over month and I had no success as well. It sounds all very good and makes perfect sense to do it that way I totally agree, but somehow it is not really working, isn't it?
Have the feeling that fasting, juice fasting, sauna, liver flushes, etc. are more effective for liver/gallbladder issues.
I think due to the depletion of minerals and vitamins in our bodies, symptoms stay and worsen by time. Have the feeling that could be the main reason for most of the sides. Some people here had enormous success with high iodine intake and reverse allover dryness, if that's not something. Maybe not working for everyone, guess we have to locate our empty depots separately.
Wrote it down here already, but I had weeks of fresh pressed carrot juice everyday and nothing happened, not everyone has too much vitamin a or problems with it.
Gained quite some weight after accutane (ate too much carbs and fat) and decided to make a diet at some point. (Had no idea what accutane had done to me at this point) However, I lost 12 kilograms within 2 month and lost a lot of fat, most of my muscles stayed. Just wanted to mention it, because not one side effect got better due to the fatloss.
Beginning of this thread, around page 40,50,60 a lot of people tried already getting rid of accutane in their fat cells by a lot of detox herbs,supps and specific liver/gallbladder/kidney nutrition and had no success at all. I myself tried the perfect detox nutrition and chinese medicine over month and I had no success as well. It sounds all very good and makes perfect sense to do it that way I totally agree, but somehow it is not really working, isn't it?
Have the feeling that fasting, juice fasting, sauna, liver flushes, etc. are more effective for liver/gallbladder issues.
I think your right I bought a infared sauna a few years ago and my symptoms got much worse all I really did was re-activate the drug which is BIZARRE after all these years , also rubbing my skin for a prolonged period of time does the same thing , and I took salt baths things got worse again.... What I found best is not playing with my skin in ANY way , watching retinol intake vit A but only if I ingest a lot ie fish oil for a long time .
If you look at what all the people did over the years to TRY and flush the POISON out of the system to no avail , I don't want to sound negative but somehowthis stuff is interlocked with our entire bodies cells especially the skin receptors , also eating a high CARB diet tends to make me
very sleepy not sure why that is.
Plus I did a nettle tea cleasing diet for a week or so four cups per day the result of that was my left arm went numb for a month , I would say a
failed experiment.
Also alcohol is a no no , causes more bad side effects , not sure what else to add , dht blockers tend to be bad , anti androgens bad .
One would think there MUST be a way to flush it out , but I'm not so sure......... short of a liver transplant lol....
And so my point is .... one can't get rid of it , but one can control the levels of the poison and thus reduce side effects , that has been my
experience so far....
If HITLER created the PERFECT POISON isotretinoin might have been on his short list....
Day 10 of juice fast, living off 3 quarts of green juice per day, 2 tablespoons of psylium husk, 2 tablespoons of hydrated bentonite clay, lots of water. Everything going smoothly, my eyes are starting to go white again as they were bloodshot before the fast, the red veins are disappearing in the whites of my eyes.... and i feel much better internally. Still have only gone the toilet twice, that needs to be rectified, but going well. My hair looks to be in better shape and body odour has dissipated somewhat.
Day 10 of juice fast, living off 3 quarts of green juice per day, 2 tablespoons of psylium husk, 2 tablespoons of hydrated bentonite clay, lots of water. Everything going smoothly, my eyes are starting to go white again as they were bloodshot before the fast, the red veins are disappearing in the whites of my eyes.... and i feel much better internally. Still have only gone the toilet twice, that needs to be rectified, but going well. My hair looks to be in better shape and body odour has dissipated somewhat.
You really got to get the bowels moving otherwise you set yourself up for trouble.
I think due to the depletion of minerals and vitamins in our bodies, symptoms stay and worsen by time. Have the feeling that could be the main reason for most of the sides. Some people here had enormous success with high iodine intake and reverse allover dryness, if that's not something. Maybe not working for everyone, guess we have to locate our empty depots separately.
Wrote it down here already, but I had weeks of fresh pressed carrot juice everyday and nothing happened, not everyone has too much vitamin a or problems with it.
Gained quite some weight after accutane (ate too much carbs and fat) and decided to make a diet at some point. (Had no idea what accutane had done to me at this point) However, I lost 12 kilograms within 2 month and lost a lot of fat, most of my muscles stayed. Just wanted to mention it, because not one side effect got better due to the fatloss.
Beginning of this thread, around page 40,50,60 a lot of people tried already getting rid of accutane in their fat cells by a lot of detox herbs,supps and specific liver/gallbladder/kidney nutrition and had no success at all. I myself tried the perfect detox nutrition and chinese medicine over month and I had no success as well. It sounds all very good and makes perfect sense to do it that way I totally agree, but somehow it is not really working, isn't it?
Have the feeling that fasting, juice fasting, sauna, liver flushes, etc. are more effective for liver/gallbladder issues.
I think your right I bought a infared sauna a few years ago and my symptoms got much worse all I really did was re-activate the drug which is BIZARRE after all these years , also rubbing my skin for a prolonged period of time does the same thing , and I took salt baths things got worse again.... What I found best is not playing with my skin in ANY way , watching retinol intake vit A but only if I ingest a lot ie fish oil for a long time .
If you look at what all the people did over the years to TRY and flush the POISON out of the system to no avail , I don't want to sound negative but somehowthis stuff is interlocked with our entire bodies cells especially the skin receptors , also eating a high CARB diet tends to make me
very sleepy not sure why that is.
Plus I did a nettle tea cleasing diet for a week or so four cups per day the result of that was my left arm went numb for a month , I would say a
failed experiment.
Also alcohol is a no no , causes more bad side effects , not sure what else to add , dht blockers tend to be bad , anti androgens bad .
One would think there MUST be a way to flush it out , but I'm not so sure......... short of a liver transplant lol....
And so my point is .... one can't get rid of it , but one can control the levels of the poison and thus reduce side effects , that has been my
experience so far....
If HITLER created the PERFECT POISON isotretinoin might have been on his short list....
For me it's different: detox salt baths makes nothing worse and high carbs is the most positive nutrition for me so far. Tried recently a high dosage vitamin b-complex and silymarin+liv52 in medium dosages, makes my sides immediately much much worse.
Most of my sides came years later, looking back now I know that alcohol was really harmful, thus I can see how much is related to the liver, or gallbladder, or pancreas. Yet I don't know exactly which of these organs is damaged most, will try to figure it out in the upcoming month. Everything is really complicated anyway, no one really get's it, the only chance is to figure it out by trial and error, reading, looking for support etc. etc.
There is also to say that healing can be a very slow process, no one recovers over night. I started treating myself a year ago and made progress within this time. It will go one like that but it takes just time.
In general I love life and think it's still just great, I recommend you do the same and focus on things which matters most to you, in the meantime try to get better. Looking back and posting "accutane is poison" comments brings no one forward, we all no that already, no need to repeat.
I think due to the depletion of minerals and vitamins in our bodies, symptoms stay and worsen by time. Have the feeling that could be the main reason for most of the sides. Some people here had enormous success with high iodine intake and reverse allover dryness, if that's not something. Maybe not working for everyone, guess we have to locate our empty depots separately.
Wrote it down here already, but I had weeks of fresh pressed carrot juice everyday and nothing happened, not everyone has too much vitamin a or problems with it.
Gained quite some weight after accutane (ate too much carbs and fat) and decided to make a diet at some point. (Had no idea what accutane had done to me at this point) However, I lost 12 kilograms within 2 month and lost a lot of fat, most of my muscles stayed. Just wanted to mention it, because not one side effect got better due to the fatloss.
Beginning of this thread, around page 40,50,60 a lot of people tried already getting rid of accutane in their fat cells by a lot of detox herbs,supps and specific liver/gallbladder/kidney nutrition and had no success at all. I myself tried the perfect detox nutrition and chinese medicine over month and I had no success as well. It sounds all very good and makes perfect sense to do it that way I totally agree, but somehow it is not really working, isn't it?
Have the feeling that fasting, juice fasting, sauna, liver flushes, etc. are more effective for liver/gallbladder issues.
I think your right I bought a infared sauna a few years ago and my symptoms got much worse all I really did was re-activate the drug which is BIZARRE after all these years , also rubbing my skin for a prolonged period of time does the same thing , and I took salt baths things got worse again.... What I found best is not playing with my skin in ANY way , watching retinol intake vit A but only if I ingest a lot ie fish oil for a long time .
If you look at what all the people did over the years to TRY and flush the POISON out of the system to no avail , I don't want to sound negative but somehowthis stuff is interlocked with our entire bodies cells especially the skin receptors , also eating a high CARB diet tends to make me
very sleepy not sure why that is.
Plus I did a nettle tea cleasing diet for a week or so four cups per day the result of that was my left arm went numb for a month , I would say a
failed experiment.
Also alcohol is a no no , causes more bad side effects , not sure what else to add , dht blockers tend to be bad , anti androgens bad .
One would think there MUST be a way to flush it out , but I'm not so sure......... short of a liver transplant lol....
And so my point is .... one can't get rid of it , but one can control the levels of the poison and thus reduce side effects , that has been my
experience so far....
If HITLER created the PERFECT POISON isotretinoin might have been on his short list....
For me it's different: detox salt baths makes nothing worse and high carbs is the most positive nutrition for me so far. Tried recently a high dosage vitamin b-complex and silymarin+liv52 in medium dosages, makes my sides immediately much much worse.
Most of my sides came years later, looking back now I know that alcohol was really harmful, thus I can see how much is related to the liver, or gallbladder, or pancreas. Yet I don't know exactly which of these organs is damaged most, will try to figure it out in the upcoming month. Everything is really complicated anyway, no one really get's it, the only chance is to figure it out by trial and error, reading, looking for support etc. etc.
There is also to say that healing can be a very slow process, no one recovers over night. I started treating myself a year ago and made progress within this time. It will go one like that but it takes just time.
In general I love life and think it's still just great, I recommend you do the same and focus on things which matters most to you, in the meantime try to get better. Looking back and posting "accutane is poison" comments brings no one forward, we all no that already, no need to repeat.
Your right I apologize for that I was just a bit moody at the time , my condition has improved vastly so I shouldn't complain I made good progress , and yes
we all respond different to different treatments , over time I have learned what NOT TO DO through trial and error , cutting back beer to near nil , was a step in the right direction , since alcohol dehydrates and we are dealing with systemic dehydration well..... plus it's not the best for our taxed livers.
I say whatever works for you do it , heck if it's pot you want to smoke go for it , try different things . Joseph is taking Blue Ice and it helps him great
it may not for others in fact it may be detrimental but it works for him so that's a good thing.
To be honest though I think we are dealing with chronic symptom management , some have worse than others. In a way were all in the same boat
so we can learn off each other and try different things that's what this forum is here for , experiments in progress lol...
Pete (=
That's the best way i found atm (theory):
Accutane is expelled via the bile, the best thing to expell all the bile without reabsorption is the liver flush by andreas moritz.
You do 6-10 liver flush, 1-2 kidney cleanse and then you do the homeopathic isotherapy like this (i did it in the morning, 30 min before eating) day 1: 30K, day 3: 200K, day 5: XM, day 7: XMK.
While doing this isotherapy you need to take 7+day fermented kombucha (who potentially contain udp-glucuronic acid & glucaric acid) + 1 supplement of calcium-d-glucarate (1-2gr 3times per day) + food (artichoke) or supplement (chondroitin, artichoke extract) who contain glucuronic acid (facultative) + a lot of fiber (eat only fruit & vegs**), we can add: psyllium, bentonite, charcoal to prevent reabsorption. This isotherapy isn't easy cause it will bring all the symptoms back for 1-3 weeks but it will be fucking magical to get your old body back [Edited image out]
** I've took 20ml of olive oil + 20ml lemon juice after eat some fruits and psyllium+bentonite+charcoal to expell all the bile every morning.
PS: I think it's a good idea to have a good stock of real vitamin A & vitamin D (from sun exposure) before doing the isotherapy, that's what i did, i've eat some carrots & took red ice skate liver oil.
I don't know if it's matter but i've took nux vomica (at the same dosage) 10min after the isotherapic isotretinoin.
Guys are you serious. I've already told you how to flush out this accutane.
Accutane is expelled via the bile, the best thing to expell all the bile without reabsorption is the liver flush by andreas moritz.
You do 6-10 liver flush, 1-2 kidney cleanse and then you do the homeopathic isotherapy like this (i did it in the morning, 30 min before eating) day 1: 30K, day 3: 200K, day 5: XM, day 7: XMK.
While doing this isotherapy you need to take 7+day fermented kombucha (who potentially contain udp-glucuronic acid & glucaric acid) + 1 supplement of calcium-d-glucarate (1-2gr 3times per day) + food (artichoke) or supplement (chondroitin, artichoke extract) who contain glucuronic acid (facultative) + a lot of fiber (eat only fruit & vegs**), we can add: psyllium, bentonite, charcoal to prevent reabsorption. This isotherapy isn't easy cause it will bring all the symptoms back for 1-3 weeks but it will be fucking magical to get your old body back
** I've took 20ml of olive oil after eat some fruits and psyllium+bentonite+charcoal to expell all the bile every morning.
PS: I think it's a good idea to have a good stock of real vitamin A before doing the isotherapy, that's what i did, i've eat some carrots & took red ice skate liver oil.
In your first post you wrote that you healed yourself and in the next ones you proposed new methods to get better, which seemed then that you actually not really have healed yourself yet, at least it made that impression to me.
Isotherapy scares me, just because of the effect that everything gets worse than ever first, or can it also stay like that? I admit haven't read anything about it, will do that today.
I flushed already couple of times and it brings me not that much + I always get extreme nausea, even when I follow strict the rules from moritz, clark, etc. - so it's almost impossible to do that for me anyway.
Yes because in the first post i hadn't tried yet the isotherapy.
The flush gived me naunea too but i can handle it. Maybe you should try to eat a lot of fiber (or psyllium/bentonite) if you can (if the intestine are fine*) and take cascara sagrada + herbs to crush the stones instead of the flush.
*if not greens juice can heal it.
But its sure that before doing the isotherapy the body has to be in the best health as possible to be able to expell all this mobilized accutane.