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Lamarr- I agree with you that Dr. Chu is one of the leading derms in the world. And if the top derms have the knowledge of accutane producing AA in people, why are they not trying to spread this idea to the medical community more, especially if there is a cure? It seems like this is an almost unheard of fact, and most derms would never diagnose AA. Also could you do me a favor and ask Dr. Chu how successful is the treatment of AA after accutane.
I shall be asking alot more about hairloss at my next app as he has adress most of my other issues.... so i will now move onto the hairloss.
My feeling on diffuse AA is that so long as it isn't horrifict amounts of hair, like mine e.g. 300-400 strands a day even 7 months after i began shedding, then chances are it will resolve on its own.. I also think treatement will be more successfull than in those who are genetically predisposed to it...
And i don't know why he wouldn't be spreading the word... ONE thing that makes me think maybe he is, and that he isn't being listened to, Is that he told me personally that he stands up at confrences and states that accutane DOES induce rocesea, but he is always immediately told to sit down... Maybe it's that same with AA? alot of drs/derms are verystuck in their ways and like to think what they have been practicing for years is the right thing...
Ok, bit more info for you to think about... As we know, in prolonged cases of this accutane induced hairloss, the victims can often look like mpb patients... NOW here is my theory... As we know MPB is caused by DHT binding at the hair follicle and then being attacked by the immune system, and hairs in the MPB regions are most susceptible to damage from this inflamation (it is not that the same process isn't going on across the whole scalp but that the hairs in the MPB areas are more open to damage...
Now Alopecia areata is also an inflamatory condition the same as MPB, hairs which are most open to damage from this inflamation are the quickest to degrade. Many articles say it can be very difficult to differentiate between MPB and Diffuse AA.
As you may or may not have seen, guys that suffer from this tend to have a diffuse hairloss throughout the whole top of their scalps (e.g. julius in this thread) suggesting that it isn't typical MPB. I feel if he hadn't of suffered from this accutane hairloss. He would of never lost much hair in his life...
Anyway here is my point, i am so so so confident that prolonged cases are a cause of our immune systems attacking our own hair... treatement options should be aimed at reducing inflamation e.g. emu oil, Essential fatty acids etc. Obviously the best thing to do is try and get your derms to recignise the fact that accutane can and does induce diffuse AA.
As for people like ithappens, i believe he also has diffuse AA, but coupled with thyroid malfunction (common place if you do your research).
I don't know how much you guys have read about this, but i believe i have read pretty much every case there is to read about. SOME people even complain of round bald patches in random places on their scalps (CLEARLY AA)...
It actually funnily enough makes me very happy that this link has been established, as although AA can in some cases be hard to treate i believe we have much better chances than those genetically predisposed to it and we now know how to begin tackleing the problem...
It wasn't until january but he has agreed to see me before christmas so i am waiting to hear back on a date!! I am so confident on my points though... everything i have read just points to diffuse AA... People who have really prolonged cases tend to have other immune malfunctions, e.g. julius, and many others i have read about on forums (i myself have mouth ulcers and flushing) that suggests a strong relation with AA. Coupled with people haveing their scalps inspected and being told they have inflamation present etc etc....
People who recover have been known to use things such as minox, Xandrox (combination of minoxidil and azelic acid(which has anti inflamatory properties). Julius even said minox helped slow his shedding. Minoxidil in itself can help with Alopecia areata.
Derms who seem clued up e.g. Dr Chu and blazed derm, suggest using topical steroids and i have read some threads of derms suggesting systemic prednisone and steroid medicated shampoos. The response to these suggestions are rather amuseing as people assume that the derm is crazy and that it will make things worse... I believe the ones prescribing these treatements years ago had a better idea than most derms..
Don't you guys find it funny that this shit often presents itself as diffused thinning across the intire top of the scalp? If you search hard for pictures of diffuse alopecia areata, it looks identical...
hey just wanted to give everyone a quick update. finished a six month 80mg/day course back march. started shedding around month 4, shed pretty much until beginning to mid october. started rogain oct. 21, so its been about a month since ive been on this stuff. so far, im very impressed. i am already seeing regrowth, and not tiny thin hairs i was getting as TE regrowth.....these hairs are thick, thicker than the rest it seems. it also looks like a lot of my existing hairs are actually thicker towards the root, as if theyre growing in stronger. now i am shedding though...but to me its a good kinda shed. at least i know im getting something out of it. have a lot of confidence in my decision, one month in...already seeing results, cant imagine what the next six or so months have in store. its like this stuff is the kickstart my hair needed. alright, take care...enjoy your thanksgivings and ill update in a few weeks. bye
Hey there all.. sorry for not updating i currently back home, i was injured during army trainig(broken leg) so i was't home for a while.
lammar i googled diffuse AA and saw some pics that are 100% like my hair loss. (its all over for me even back of my head got some patchy thin spots).. (edit) this is just what i got on the top:Well.. [Edited link out]
my hair loss is now entering a year from when i stopped accutane....i hate this(so fucking thin all over).
Ok, bit more info for you to think about... As we know, in prolonged cases of this accutane induced hairloss, the victims can often look like mpb patients... NOW here is my theory... As we know MPB is caused by DHT binding at the hair follicle and then being attacked by the immune system, and hairs in the MPB regions are most susceptible to damage from this inflamation (it is not that the same process isn't going on across the whole scalp but that the hairs in the MPB areas are more open to damage...
Now Alopecia areata is also an inflamatory condition the same as MPB, hairs which are most open to damage from this inflamation are the quickest to degrade. Many articles say it can be very difficult to differentiate between MPB and Diffuse AA.
As you may or may not have seen, guys that suffer from this tend to have a diffuse hairloss throughout the whole top of their scalps (e.g. julius in this thread) suggesting that it isn't typical MPB. I feel if he hadn't of suffered from this accutane hairloss. He would of never lost much hair in his life...
Anyway here is my point, i am so so so confident that prolonged cases are a cause of our immune systems attacking our own hair... treatement options should be aimed at reducing inflamation e.g. emu oil, Essential fatty acids etc. Obviously the best thing to do is try and get your derms to recignise the fact that accutane can and does induce diffuse AA.
As for people like ithappens, i believe he also has diffuse AA, but coupled with thyroid malfunction (common place if you do your research).
I don't know how much you guys have read about this, but i believe i have read pretty much every case there is to read about. SOME people even complain of round bald patches in random places on their scalps (CLEARLY AA)...
It actually funnily enough makes me very happy that this link has been established, as although AA can in some cases be hard to treate i believe we have much better chances than those genetically predisposed to it and we now know how to begin tackleing the problem...
what does someone have to do to treat diffuse AA? i'm now 9 months post accutane and still shedding a decent amount.
hey to answer your question...yes i do see quite a bit of regrowth in the hairline and temple region. im not growing a new hairline, although i do have hairs coming in below the hairline...just nothing like oh my god. and honestly i dont expect it. but my hairline has thickened up quite a bit and im just one month into it. pretty impressed. ill see peek results within a year and then it'll level out.
Ron19 said:Hey there all.. sorry for not updating i currently back home, i was injured during army trainig(broken leg) so i was't home for a while.lammar i googled diffuse AA and saw some pics that are 100% like my hair loss. (its all over for me even back of my head got some patchy thin spots).. (edit) this is just what i got on the top:Well W.. [Edited link out]
my hair loss is now entering a year from when i stopped accutane....i hate this(so fucking thin all over).
Ron my friend... You also came to mind when i was tld about difuse AA. You have dry mouth if im not mistaken? That is also often viewed as an auto immune symptom. Get to your derm and MAKE HIM do a scalp biopsy, or atleast treate it as if its diffuse AA...
As you can see, that picture is just like many accutane victims post/discribe...
davidhatesacne said:lamarr1986 said:Ok, bit more info for you to think about... As we know, in prolonged cases of this accutane induced hairloss, the victims can often look like mpb patients... NOW here is my theory... As we know MPB is caused by DHT binding at the hair follicle and then being attacked by the immune system, and hairs in the MPB regions are most susceptible to damage from this inflamation (it is not that the same process isn't going on across the whole scalp but that the hairs in the MPB areas are more open to damage...Now Alopecia areata is also an inflamatory condition the same as MPB, hairs which are most open to damage from this inflamation are the quickest to degrade. Many articles say it can be very difficult to differentiate between MPB and Diffuse AA.
As you may or may not have seen, guys that suffer from this tend to have a diffuse hairloss throughout the whole top of their scalps (e.g. julius in this thread) suggesting that it isn't typical MPB. I feel if he hadn't of suffered from this accutane hairloss. He would of never lost much hair in his life...
Anyway here is my point, i am so so so confident that prolonged cases are a cause of our immune systems attacking our own hair... treatement options should be aimed at reducing inflamation e.g. emu oil, Essential fatty acids etc. Obviously the best thing to do is try and get your derms to recignise the fact that accutane can and does induce diffuse AA.
As for people like ithappens, i believe he also has diffuse AA, but coupled with thyroid malfunction (common place if you do your research).
I don't know how much you guys have read about this, but i believe i have read pretty much every case there is to read about. SOME people even complain of round bald patches in random places on their scalps (CLEARLY AA)...
It actually funnily enough makes me very happy that this link has been established, as although AA can in some cases be hard to treate i believe we have much better chances than those genetically predisposed to it and we now know how to begin tackleing the problem...
what does someone have to do to treat diffuse AA? i'm now 9 months post accutane and still shedding a decent amount.
There are a number of treatements, Minoxidil can help in some cases, Topical steroids, systemic steroids, topical immunosuprsents etc...
lammar my doc told me that it isn't hormonal and it's accutane's fault but he worried about my temples..that may be genetic.. about the overall hair loss and texture change he told me to wait it out, it should come back.
about the AA i can't force him to give me pills or whatever cause i'm a private and he is a major in the army.
apparently that's whay he is the only derm who didn't try to push me prop or minoxidil and actually looked and tested my hair(seen the bed hair loss as he found hairs on his hand), well he can't get any money for that couse i'm in the service now, also he told me that most of those doctors who write in those web forums are bought by the medication corp', as he was while working for Ynet.co.il site so we should not take them too seriously.
and yes i stil got dry mouth,eyes,skin,and some kind of infection in my nose,mouth that won't go.
my auto emune tests came negative 4 months ago, anti histamins did not work, antibiotics fixed some other thing but not this.(a mistery!...)
hope that my hair will return as for all of you i wish that your suffering will be much shorter than mine.
Buddy... i know your tests all came back negative... as have mine!! But tests would not pic up the auto immune misfunction for Alopecia areata....I am 100% confident that most prolonged cases are AA or a form of.... i am so so certain on it. if you have heard of xandrox i truely believe this is the best treatement for accutane hairloss victims. It contains anything from 5-15% minoxidil and 5% Azelic Acid... Both treatements are shown to prove effective for both MPB AND AA. Here is a study on azelic acid used to treate Alopecia areata and if you look hard you can also see 5% minoxidil is a help with alopecia areata.
So basically i beg you guys (ron, ithappens) to get yourself some xandrox!! ron if you are using minoxidil already you have no reason not to use xandrox.
Here is the azelic acid study!! [Edited link out]
P.s. just to let you know i haven't come to this conclusion on my own... Dr Chu told me about diffuse alopeca areata and blazeds derm told him also... it just seems to be not so well known amunst the dermatology community for some reason... If you reasearch very hard you will see that this explaination for prolonged accutane hairloss is THE only thing that fits pretty much everyones hairloss experience (when it is prolonged)....
The only way to detect AA, is to do a scalp biopsy and use special dyes to test for the precent of immune cells... although knowledgable derms will recignise that if this has been going on for a very long time, chances are it is the only thing that can be happening...
lamarr1986 said:Buddy... i know your tests all came back negative... as have mine!! But tests would not pic up the auto immune misfunction for Alopecia areata....I am 100% confident that most prolonged cases are AA or a form of.... i am so so certain on it. if you have heard of xandrox i truely believe this is the best treatement for accutane hairloss victims. It contains anything from 5-15% minoxidil and 5% Azelic Acid... Both treatements are shown to prove effective for both MPB AND AA. Here is a study on azelic acid used to treate Alopecia areata and if you look hard you can also see 5% minoxidil is a help with alopecia areata.So basically i beg you guys (ron, ithappens) to get yourself some xandrox!! ron if you are using minoxidil already you have no reason not to use xandrox.
Here is the azelic acid study!! [Edited link out]
P.s. just to let you know i haven't come to this conclusion on my own... Dr Chu told me about diffuse alopeca areata and blazeds derm told him also... it just seems to be not so well known amunst the dermatology community for some reason... If you reasearch very hard you will see that this explaination for prolonged accutane hairloss is THE only thing that fits pretty much everyones hairloss experience (when it is prolonged)....
The only way to detect AA, is to do a scalp biopsy and use special dyes to test for the precent of immune cells... although knowledgable derms will recignise that if this has been going on for a very long time, chances are it is the only thing that can be happening...
Well i do not use minoxidil now..but i did use it earlier it made my head itchy and i got bad case of dandruff from it so i stoped and all of it went away(as well as hair shed for 4 months.).
my father made some statments that meybe right..1 i should not have hair loss from genetics so early as he now losing hair(not bald) and 69 and a half years old with grey hair.. 2 so it must be a poisoning from the isotretionin that also fucked my eyes and throat for so long.. He is M.D but his speciality is radiology and surgery.
hey folks... so I've started using rogaine at the advice of the derms and hair loss specialist I've seen, along with the diffuse alopecia areata speculations. I definately was dismayed to find that about 50 hairs came out while I was trying to rub it into my head- hopefully this means less hair loss in the shower though... we'll see about that. The foam isn't bad- it smells nice and it doesnt really leave much of a residue on your hair.
I am now doing just about everything possible to combat my hair shedding... my regimin is as follows:
propecia 1mg daily/ rogaine twice daily
nioxin system 2 shampoo/conditioner twice daily
5mg biotin, 1000mg vitamin c, 50mg zinc daily
will soon be taking homeopathic medicine I ordered from Dr. Shah.... hes sending me lycopedium or something like that which is a common homeopathic therapy for hair loss.
I'm also taking 4 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar daily... some people say it did wonders for their acne and has other healthy benefits. Maybe it'll magically make my hair stopp falling out lol...
I also excercise regularly and eat a pretty healthy diet...
I'm going to keep doing these things for a few months and see how it all turns out. Its pretty neurotic but it makes me feel better to think i'm doing everything I can about it. I'll check back periodically and let everyone know how things are going.
Here's something interesting which relates to inflammation and the biotin theory of Accutane hair loss:
Severe deficiency of vitamin B6 is uncommon. Alcoholics are thought to be most at risk of vitamin B6 deficiency due to low dietary intakes and impaired metabolism of the vitamin. In the early 1950s, seizures were observed in infants as a result of severe vitamin B6 deficiency caused by an error in the manufacture of infant formula. Abnormal electroencephalogram (EEG) patterns have been noted in some studies of vitamin B6 deficiency. Other neurologic symptoms noted in severe vitamin B6 deficiency include irritability, depression, and confusion; additional symptoms include inflammation of the tongue, sores or ulcers of the mouth, and ulcers of the skin at the corners of the mouth (2).
Well guys its now been 7 months off tane for me, still shedding. Sometimes when I shower I see hardly any hairs in the drain, other days there is a small clump so I really have no idea whether the shedding is slowing down at all. I am starting to feel depressed because I have just recently started to notice that my hair is looking reasonably thinner. I never thought I would have to be enduring this for such a long time, and I really hope this stops soon. I would be so much happier and worry free if the hair loss just stopped, I would never take a normal hair cycle for granted again.
I am not sure whether to call my hair loss TE or AA. I have heard that in AA you lose many short and tapered hairs, but many of the tapered hairs I lose are fairly long (haven't got my hair cut in over a year), I wonder if this means I have TE rather than AA. I can't really point to any other significant symptoms other than the hair loss. Anyways, I was just updating everyone that this is my 7 month anniversary, hopefully this is all over soon for all of us.
I've been taking propecia for about two months now and haven't noticed anything at all. The side affects are decreased libido and in rare cases some other, more sinister issues (male breast enlargement being one). My derm told me that being young, I have enough testosterone going through me that the chances of side effects are even less and so far thats been my experience with it. Of course, this was the same derm who put me on accutane and told me the hair would stop falling out 6 weeks after stopping the drug, so he's probably full of it.
I've been using the rogaine foam for about 2 days now and I despise it- its so hard to rub into my head without getting it in all my hairs and its definately caused me to shed more, either from the physical friction of massaging the stuff in or from the beginning effects of making telogen hairs fall out (hopefully its that and the shedding goes back to the normal amount... or perhaps less if i'm lucky and I get some regrowth). It also makes the hair kind of stick together so the thin spot on top of my head is more obvious with it in. The nioxin shampoo is keeping things from drying out too much though.
I'll keep doing the "rogaine routine" for a while and see how it goes...