Alright WingedSerpent, my propionyl-l-carnitine arrived today (powder). I took about 500mg in water on an empty stomach, but it's water soluble so...
But I'm going to take the benefit of your experience. My Vit B5 powder arrives tomorrow, so here's the question. You say 'both together'. Should I put the powders into the same water and drink them both together that way? And should I just take one dose per day of each and together?
Aside that I have a veg/fruit smoothie each day, try to drink plenty and eat no sweets, cakes, dairy etc. So I guess you could say this is your regimen pretty much to the letter once I get the supplments sorted out.
Alright WingedSerpent, my propionyl-l-carnitine arrived today (powder). I took about 500mg in water on an empty stomach, but it's water soluble so...
But I'm going to take the benefit of your experience. My Vit B5 powder arrives tomorrow, so here's the question. You say 'both together'. Should I put the powders into the same water and drink them both together that way? And should I just take one dose per day of each and together?
Aside that I have a veg/fruit smoothie each day, try to drink plenty and eat no sweets, cakes, dairy etc. So I guess you could say this is your regimen pretty much to the letter once I get the supplments sorted out.
Great!
But I notice you're taking propionyl-l-carnitine. This is another form of L-Carnitine. Since it is not the form I take I can't comment on the dosage. I would advise doing some research as to whether 500mg is applicable to the propionyl form also.
I take the supplements in pill form. I just take both of them right after each other, after a meal. It makes sense to take both of them together since one aids the efficacy of the other. You could split the dose and take it twice a day -I haven't done this, since once a day has worked fine. But then I'm using time-release B5 whereas you are using powder.
All I would add is
1. Be patient -keep at it and assess the situation after 3 months.
2. Don't start taking bigger supplement doses than I recommend. It's very easy to do if you are using powder. This progamme is not about megadosing! It's not necessary and in my opinion does more harm than good.
Good luck, and let us know any progress!
Yo! Well, to be clear on my dosages, another thread here recommended 500mg - 2000mg daily. The packaging itself does have a recommendation - 1000 - 1500mg twice daily.
At the moment I'm trying two separate servings of 1000mg, which I'm estimating. They say a tea spoon is about 4000mg, but I'm not sure how high they heap it so... I'm just trying to take my measurements as one quarter of one tea spoon per service (twice a day) (edit: 'they' refers to the packaging of the product).
I'll probably just try to have one lot of 500mg B5 when I get it, although if this measure is right, that will be one eighth of one tea spoon. I guess that's about right.
So yes, I have concerns about keeping a strictly controlled daily dosage, but I'll try to keep it the same as far as possible.
Two doses of this propionyl-l-carnitine taken so far. Fingers crossed.
Oh, I have a nutritional / holistic log over that way called 'the diet of freedom'. If I don't tell you directly, I'll be updating there most days (I try for every day, but it doesn't always work).
Cheers for all the advice so far.
Hey Winged... tell me this. Is/was your acne type the oily skin type or the dry skin type? I figure it was the former because after just one single dose of B5 (500mg), my skin's drying out too much and I'm getting new spots. I have the dry skin type so... I dunno, maybe B5 not for me?
Hey Winged... tell me this. Is/was your acne type the oily skin type or the dry skin type? I figure it was the former because after just one single dose of B5 (500mg), my skin's drying out too much and I'm getting new spots. I have the dry skin type so... I dunno, maybe B5 not for me?
Hi Tex.
Yes, I had oily skin.
However, I very much doubt that just a single low dose of 500mg is going to have any effect on the body yet, let alone cause an effect that you could actually see, such as new spots or extra-dry skin. The mistake most people make is that they get focussed on the micro ups and downs in their skin quality (which everyone has, not just acne sufferers) before waiting to establish the macro picture over several weeks. That is the only meaningful test of any regime: is my skin generally better or worse over the longer term?
As I recall when I first started my regime, I was still getting cysts two to three weeks in. This was a legacy of my previous lifestyle, but I could have easily thought "oh, it's not working" or "it's causing more zits, not fewer!" and quit.
To take another example: when I was into body building, I used to take creatine, which is a known acne-aggravator (I didn't know this at the time). For a few weeks, there was no effect on my skin, and then it went haywire, absolutely ballistic. So, even a known acne aggravator takes a while to kick in.
The thing about B5 is there is evidence to support its effectiveness. The same cannot be said about all the other remedies touted on these boards, from evening primrose oil to lemon juice to royal jelly to turmeric powder to apple cider vinegar, etc, etc. I prefer to take something that has some basis in clinical research. That's why I think it's important to give B5 a decent trial period to see if it can help.
Having said all that, different types of L-Carnitine are more potent that others and magnify the effects of B5 with different doses. I haven't taken the form you are taking, so I can't really offer any support on that. What you could try is dropping the B5 level by half and monitor the situation. At the end of the day, the ideal position to be in is to take the minimum level of supplements necessary to do the job.
Don't get me wrong, unless it gets really bad, I'll be keeping with it at least for a few weeks. But at the moment it kind of feels like I've washed the area around my nose with one of those over the counter topicals that dries your face up (also feels like BP).
Sure, it may not be the B5 or it may be. I guess we'll see. For now, though, 500mg a day.
And thanks for a swift reply, it's easy to start to crack when things start to look worse.
wingedserpent - thanks for posting your regimen and sticking around to answer questions. I'm male and in my late 20's with oily skin. I've been on a low sugar, dairy free diet for the last few years. For the past two weeks, I've incorporated the other elements (b5 & l-carnitine & juice) of your regimen + the fiber & probiotic mentioned in Bigphil205's thread.
I'm slowly weaning myself off of BP at the same time, so it's a bit difficult to judge how well it's all working. I was applying BP everyday in the mornings, but I'm currently applying BP every other day. What I can say, is my skin appears to be healthier and the acne I do get heals faster and appears to be smaller. I'll continue to report on progress in the weeks ahead.
One question I did have - when you travel (i.e. away from your juicer), what do you use for a juice substitute?
yep makes sense. natural , and easy..
even my physician says dermatologist is a waste of money.. few honest doctors around ya know!
its all about profit for these industry. actually all industry wants your money .scam products.
listen to this person follow his post.
its all about internal care, what you eat is what you look like..
you eat pizza you have pizza face
you eat mcdonalds you become retarded lol.. joke.
yes fruits and veggies is the cure. and with few natural/organic skin applications will heal you in no time
dont forget clean water!!!!!
i am an acne sufferer , and came across all new information researching online.
im slowly healing since becoming a vegetarian-water- sun gazing-natural skin products like acv-coconut oil-honey-teatree.
good luck all! you can do it!!!!!!! 
Wingedserpent, I'm seriously contemplating trying this regimen. I don't eat many sugars or carbs anyway (I'm prone to candida overgrowth), and ProActiv is just not cutting it for me.
Would you mind telling me a little bit about how you discovered this method? Do you know what types of acne it helps--and what root causes it fixes?
I'd appreciate any info!
Wingedserpent, I'm seriously contemplating trying this regimen. I don't eat many sugars or carbs anyway (I'm prone to candida overgrowth), and ProActiv is just not cutting it for me.
Would you mind telling me a little bit about how you discovered this method? Do you know what types of acne it helps--and what root causes it fixes?
I'd appreciate any info!
Hi Magnolia,
I'm a great believer in looking at evidence and statistics. There were a lot of people saying that 'no-sugar' helped. There was a lot of evidence about B5. There was evidence about L-Carnitine, particularly combined with B5. There was evidence about vegetable juice helping the skin (not just acne). I figured that if I combined all these into one programme then I must have the best possible chance of clear skin.
I also realised that topical treatments weren't the key. If they were, none of us would reading these boards! It's as simple as that. So I stopped BP and used just a basic cleanser.
I'm not a medical man, so I can't really tell you how it works, nor what 'type' of acne it helps. All I know is that it healed me, and if it healed disaster-zone skin like mine, after 26 years, it can probably help most people.
wingedserpent - thanks for posting your regimen and sticking around to answer questions. I'm male and in my late 20's with oily skin. I've been on a low sugar, dairy free diet for the last few years. For the past two weeks, I've incorporated the other elements (b5 & l-carnitine & juice) of your regimen + the fiber & probiotic mentioned in Bigphil205's thread.
I'm slowly weaning myself off of BP at the same time, so it's a bit difficult to judge how well it's all working. I was applying BP everyday in the mornings, but I'm currently applying BP every other day. What I can say, is my skin appears to be healthier and the acne I do get heals faster and appears to be smaller. I'll continue to report on progress in the weeks ahead.
One question I did have - when you travel (i.e. away from your juicer), what do you use for a juice substitute?
I'm so glad you're trying my regime. Coming off BP is a very good move, but takes some courage. But if my regime works for you, you won't need it.
To answer your question about travelling, I must be only person on the planet who takes his juicer with him on holiday! Seriously. It's not that heavy and it's fairly compact. But you could probably miss the juice for a week and eat whole vegetables as long as you kept up the rest of the regime.
On the odd occasion when I've been separated from the juicer, I try to seek out a juice bar and get them to make up my recipe.
I'd just like to reiterate to people: GIVE THE REGIME THREE MONTHS. Don't quit after two weeks because zits are still popping up. They will.
Don't forget: you are applying a treatment program that combines the three elements supported by the best clinical and anecdotal evidence out there. It's worth perservering because it has the potential to transform your life.
I'll be giving this a try if I get no success with Bigphil's fiber and probiotic regimen.
To the OP - what was your acne like in terms of severity?
I had severe but 'regular' acne as a teenager which mutated into cystic acne (often the size of marbles) across my face and neck for a lot of my adult life. Sometimes I felt suicidal. Anyone else who has suffered with this knows exactly those emotions.
So you could say it was pretty bad.
Taken from Wikipedia, if anyone's interested-
ALCAR has also been shown to improve insulin response
ALCAR is an acetylated derivative of L-carnitine. During strenuous exercise, a large portion of L-carnitine and unused acetyl-CoA are converted to ALCAR and CoA inside mitochondria by carnitine O-acetyltransferase. The ALCAR is transported outside the mitochondria where it converts back to the two constituents. The L-carnitine is cycled back into the mitochondria with acyl groups to facilitate fatty acid utilization, but excess acetyl-CoA may block it. Excess acetyl-CoA causes more carbohydrates to be used for energy at the expense of fatty acids. This occurs by different mechanisms inside and outside the mitochondria. ALCAR transport decreases acetyl-CoA inside the mitochondria, but increases it outside.[4][5] Glucose metabolism increases with administration of either ALCAR or L-carnitine. A portion of L-carnitine is converted to ALCAR after ingestion in humans.
I also have similar routines that resolve my acne problem:
1. Eat lots of carrots, broccoli, cantaloupe, salmon everyday.
2. Drink at least 2 liters a day.
3. Take 1 multivitamin everyday after meal.
4. Take beta-carotene 25,000 UI everyday after meal.
5. Wash face 2x a day w/ neutrogena rapid clear foaming scrub.
6. Never touch face except when washing it.
7. Sleep 8 hrs a day.
8. Exercise 30-60 mins a day.
9. Stop eating anything sugary (candy, ice-cream).
10. Limit junk food.
My face used to be covered w/ 100s of huge acne.
They were painful & disgusting.
Now my skin is so smooth and glowing.
I still have some acne scars but they are fading away.
Try the above 10 steps. Clear skin guaranteed. Good luck!
Hi wingedserpent, thank you very much for this post, I've started this regimen recently and feel like it will help me a lot.
I have 4. questions:
1. Part of the regimen is cutting out sugar, however I read that carrots and beets are exceptionally high in sugar (as are most vegetables that are grown below ground.) Do you feel this is a problem, and do you alternate what kind of juice you make?
2. I also read that tomatoes should not be combined with other vegetables when making juice, what do you say about this?
3. Did you immediately stop treating yourself with BP after starting this regimen? And also, what do you topically do now you are on this regimen, only cleanse?
Thank you for this again.
I'm male, aged 42. I had acne from aged 14 to 40.
I have been clear for 2 years now and this is how I did it. If I managed it, I am convinced that you can too. These steps transformed my quality of life and I hope it can help other people.
There are 4 simple steps:
1. Vegetable juice.
2. Removal of sugar from diet
3. Low B5 supplementation with L-Carnitine
4. Increased water consumption
My view
---------
After 26 years, I became convinced that intractable adult acne is the result of a systemic failure in the body.
If topical treatments worked, they would have worked by now. You wouldn't be reading this page. Tweaking cleansers and skin care regimes is okay for teenagers but we're clearly suffering from something far more deep-rooted. I believe very strongly that skin-care regimes have only a very small effect on the problem. I also suffered from acne on my back. I experimented by using no cleansers at all on my back. Result: it was hardly any worse than on my face. You must treat the problem from the inside.
My regime
------------
1. Vegetable juice.
I bought a jucier for A100 (about $160). Every day I make up 1 pint of vegetable juice. I generally drink it on an empty stomach.
3-4 large carrots or sweet potatoes
1/2 large cucumber
1 large beetroot
1 vine tomato
1 bell pepper
1 stick celery
These are my prefered options, but I've come to believe you can pretty much use any vegetables. Make sure you emphasise carrrots and cucumber though.
I tend to buy organic because I can afford it, but I don't think it realy makes much difference to the effectiveness of the treatment.
It takes 5 minutes to chop and juice the vegetables, 5 minutes to drink, 5 minutes to clean the jucier. For 15 minutes effort you are taking therapeutic levels of nutrients -you're body will love you and will soon show its appreciation (see below).
2. Removal of sugar from the diet
I'm not going to discuss the whole sugar-acne thing. All I will say is that I noticed huge reductions in the oiliness of my skin when I cut out sugar. Try it.
I stopped all added sugar, cakes, confectionary, chocolate etc. Everything.
I didn't go so far as to stop eating processed foods with added sugar, since you have to be practical. Let's face it, almost everything has sugar added to it. It doesn't matter eating a little -it's the huge spikes in blood sugar that come from eating things like donuts and cola that you want to avoid.
3. Supplements
I don't believe in megadosing. I think it's dangerous.
I take 500mg of B5 and 500mg of L-Carnitine.
L-Carnitine increases the absorption of B5 so that you can similar effects with taking a lot less. L-carnitine also improves wound healing times.
Incidentally, way before the recent B5 studies, it was known that B5 had a beneficial effect on acne even at low doses. Adele Davies in her book "Let's Get Well" (I think published back in the 60s) noted cases that cleared up by taking just this amount -500mg.
4. Water consumption
I increased water consumption by 1-2 pints a day. Hydration of the skin is always beneficial.
The results you can expect
-------------------------------
There is no such thing as an overnight cure. We've all read posts along the lines of "WOW! I started taking xxxx on Monday and three days later my acne has ALL GONE!!" These posts are often well-intentioned but they suffer from obvious problems:
1. You need to be able to sustain a 'cure' for months and years, to have confidence that it really works. Otherwise you are using a tiny, statistically-insignificant sample size.
2. No problem in the human body heals overnight. Think about it. When did you last go to the doctor with some ailment and he said to you, "Just take one of these pills tonight, and tomorrow you'll be cured." Even antibiotics, among the most powerful and targetted drugs available, take about a week to ten days to work. And that's on temporary infections. Any problem you've had for years is going to disappear gradually, not overnight.
With that it mind, here is the timeline I experienced:
1. Five Days
Energy levels much higher. Elevated mood levels.
2. Two Weeks
Skin feels ususually soft, smooth and younger-looking.
3. Six weeks
I received unsolicted comments from people about how well I was looking. (I've learned over the years that when people say "You look well" to an acne sufferer what they really mean is "Your skin isn't spotty!)
4. Three months
Acne had completely disappeared, and has never returned.
Objections
------------
1. "I hate the taste of vegetable juice"
Carrots and beetroot are sweet, not bitter. I think my blend of vegetable juice is delicious. The 'difficult' vegetables are the dark green leafy ones, which certainly you want to use sparingly. Just experiment until you find a blend you like.
2. "I can't be bothered with juicing -it sounds like a lot of work."
Like I said, it takes just 15 minutes. Make sure you buy a juicer that's easy to clean. Look online for recommendations. I would also suggest that you probably already spend at least 15 minutes a day on the topical treatments for your skin. This is time better spent.
3. "I love sweet things too much to cut them out"
Listen, I loved donuts. I loved dunking them in hot coffee on a winter's day. But when you come to associate them with spots and pustules, you don't want to eat them anymore. Change the way you think about food and it's simple.
4. "That low level of supplementation can't possibly work -you have to take at least 5g/10g etc."
It does work. There is a wealth of anecdotal evidence to support the benefits of low supplementation.
I passionately believe that this treatment program can help you -and that there are people out there needlessly suffering, as I was, way into adulthood. I just regret that I didn't try it sooner -but I hope that you will and you'll lead a better life because of it.
Let me know how you get on.
Good luck.
hi,
I was very interested in reading your post. I have always suspected that spikes/dips in blood sugar have an effect on acne especially inflamation.
just in the past month I have been cutting down on sugar a lot. I cant say I have cut out all sources--most of us are just not able to obsess over our diets and find the hidden sources--but not having things like cake, cookies, soda and especially sugary candies ie gummi bears has helped a lot.
My acne has diminished noticeably and I dont have those up/down feeling of sugar crashes.
I havent tried juicing myself yet but plan to get a decent juicer in the near future. I do drink store bought veggie juice but would prefer to make my own. I do eat a lot of greens beets peppers and avocados.
Drinking a lot more water helps no doubt ...as for the vitamins have just started taking the B will not know how it affects me yet but am hopeful.
Anyway is there anything else ?SO far I think you have very good advice.
Hi wingedserpent, thank you very much for this post, I've started this regimen recently and feel like it will help me a lot.
I have 4. questions:
1. Part of the regimen is cutting out sugar, however I read that carrots and beets are exceptionally high in sugar (as are most vegetables that are grown below ground.) Do you feel this is a problem, and do you alternate what kind of juice you make?
2. I also read that tomatoes should not be combined with other vegetables when making juice, what do you say about this?
3. Did you immediately stop treating yourself with BP after starting this regimen? And also, what do you topically do now you are on this regimen, only cleanse?
Thank you for this again.
Hi there,
1. Yes, you are correct: carrots and beets are high in sugar. The difference is that it's not refined sugar.
2. I have a couple of books on juicing. They don't mention anything about not combining tomatoes with other vegetables; in fact there are several recipies using them. But I'm not an expert of juicing! I have just continued to use what worked for me.
3. Yes, I stopped BP immediately. I am very glad I did. Over the previous 20 years I ruined all sorts of clothes with bleaching and it used to make my face red and itchy. I don't deny it is clinically proven to treat acne but if my regime works for you, then you won't need it. I advise stopping BP and just cleansing. I use a Salicylic Acid cleanser and an oil-free hydrating gel. I'm not going to mention which brand because this thread isn't about topical treatments; it's about treating the problem from the inside. Cleansing is something I've always done so I will continue, but I really feel I could simply wash my face with soap and water and it will still be fine!
hi,I was very interested in reading your post. I have always suspected that spikes/dips in blood sugar have an effect on acne especially inflamation.
just in the past month I have been cutting down on sugar a lot. I cant say I have cut out all sources--most of us are just not able to obsess over our diets and find the hidden sources--but not having things like cake, cookies, soda and especially sugary candies ie gummi bears has helped a lot.
My acne has diminished noticeably and I dont have those up/down feeling of sugar crashes.
I havent tried juicing myself yet but plan to get a decent juicer in the near future. I do drink store bought veggie juice but would prefer to make my own. I do eat a lot of greens beets peppers and avocados.
Drinking a lot more water helps no doubt ...as for the vitamins have just started taking the B will not know how it affects me yet but am hopeful.
Anyway is there anything else ?SO far I think you have very good advice.
Hi AmaraG
Making your own juice has two major advantages over commercial:
1. Consistency
You get into the habit of taking juice every day. This is what counts in the long term. Every day, day after day, week after week. This is what gets results in any activity. Treating your skin is no different.
2. Packaged juice from a supermarket has been pasturized and doesn't have the same nutrient level of home juice.
Couple of other comments
1. Don't forget the L-Carnitine!
2. Persistance
I've said it before and I will say it again.
Those people that my regime will 'cure' are those that resolve to see it through to three months. They make a solemn commitment to follow all four steps, every day, without fail, and not to quit. They decide to take a macro view of their skin after that time, and not to focus in on individual spots or lesions that WILL appear in that time. Don't obsess over the details in the short term! It's the bigger picture that counts.
I know we live in a world that wants instant results but rise above it.
Good luck, let me know how it goes.
Acetyl l Carnitine is great stuff... Sometimes I remove it from the actual pill i buy it in and smear it in lotion. I combine it with Alpha Lipoic Acid and I swear zits heal faster from it.
There are a lot of theories on why sugar in the diet could have such dramatic effects on health and the body. There is some evidence that sugar can contribute to a bad balance of microorganisms in your stomach. To combat this I use a product called Kefir.
Its made by fermenting milk with kefir grains. Its a very very powerful probiotic that helps your body establish a better ecosystem in your gut. There have been a lot of studies done on the effects of probiotics on the immune system, and regular use of them is associated with increases in your body's ability to deal with bacterial infections and what not. Kefir is the best probiotic I've ever tried... (bb12, activia, lactospore, etc) ... and there is a definite impact on your immune system. The stuff is great for when you have a cold, but people with chronic bacterial infections swear by it. It seems to have a very positive effect on acne.
You can buy it in stores, but the stuff you make at home is the best.
What brilliant, concise advice. I can only but try this regimen - as I approach my 28th year of severe, mind-altering acne (literally), I can only but try. My acne story is such a traumatic one it is even funny - I got myself an absolute killa bod over the years because I was so desperate to get attention away from my face. I literally honed my figure to perfection to make sure ppl would only look at me from the neck down! So here I am, age 37 with the body of a 22yr old gal - all because of horrific acne 
will try your program, thanks
I thought I'd report how things where going with this regimen. I about 6 weeks in, following this regimen and 10 days without any BP applied (I've been slowly weaning myself off of BP since starting this regimen). A few observations:
- Face was doing pretty well until week 4, when I got 3 smaller cysts. 2 healed OK without scarring, but 1 is persisted for a couple weeks.
- Since quitting BP, I've mostly got really small whiteheads around my nose that seem to heal pretty quickly. When I tried quitting BP a year ago, I got a lot of inflamed acne around my nose, so I'm guessing I have less inflammation now.
- I haven't really seen a decrease in oiliness on my face, though my lips have gotten drier