How do you reckon acne is auto-immune? Our immune system isnt attacking our skin...

That is the key finding of the study I believe has finally identified the actual trigger point of acne, the difference between those who get it and those who don't (which is not distinguished by who has the most P. acnes bacteria, or the highest levels of any particular sex hormone, or the most sebum production). Keratinocytes respond to contact with a P. acnes bacteria by emitting superoxide anions (the immune system response) which, when it fails to be moderated (by having sufficient superoxide dismutase and other anti-oxidants on hand) then goes on to start killing keratinocytes. When the immune system causes a problem by killing human cells, that's an auto-immune disease.

By all accounts its a hormonal disease as the root of the growth of bacteria lies with increased sebum production caused by excess androgens.

That's one (but not the only) theory that researchers entertain. The NIH labels the root cause of acne as currently "unknown".

Any studies that call acne auto immune should be discredited! Basic facts should always be right before any outrageous claims

Well, the basic fact is that it has been demonstrated in the test tube how the immune system can begin killing keratinocytes in the presence of P. acnes. Do you have some data to suggest there's some reason that can't happen?

In any case, it's mere semantics. Acne is currently a disease whose cause is unknown (one can claim hormones/sebum/whatever, but there is no proof good enough to have formed any scientific consensus). If what has been demonstrated in the test tube is actually happening in human skin (which I believe it is, since it fits about every other piece of data we have about acne), then acne will have to be labelled an auto-immune disease. But the label you choose doesn't change the facts; what matters is the actual biochemical mechanism, how it arises, and what can be done about it.

I know, it's in german, but the main thing I don't understand is, why the producing company (and the glowing reviews) claim it to be a very good daylight lamp, when in fact it only has 1500 lumens at 6500 kelvin? In the other post, you mentioned that you want to reach 10000 lumens.

How does this add up?

Most "therapeutic" lights are designed with the idea that brief periods of bright (brighter than normal dim indoor light) can treat depression, insomnia, etc. There's some, but pretty weak research to support that idea. They were not designed with any idea of actually simulating the brightness (or complete energy spectrum) of sunlight. Indeed, probably nobody wants to take on the liability of producing that kind of intense light for home use.

Another lamp :

http://www.amazon.de/Philips-HF3319-01-Ene...3856&sr=8-1

This one says that it has a built in UV-filter ?? I thought we want UV to reach our eyes...

Nobody but me wants UVA to reach their eyes :D. There used to be a belief that UVB would raise the risk if cataracts, which nowadays is a belief that UVA raises the risk of cataracts, but it's unlikely that that will ever be proved one way or another. In fact, it's interesting that there's a new study showing that SSRI drugs are associated with increased risk of cataracts, presumably because increased serotonin may cause the problem. Of course, the less melatonin you have in the eye, the less is available for making serotonin, and UVA likely significantly decreases melatonin in the eye, hence I walk around in outdoor light with naked eyes and I'm not highly concerned I'm dramatically raising my risk of cataracts (even though outdoor light has way more UVA than you'll get from any average fluourescent bulb -- even a blacklight bulb, if your eye is any reasonable distance from it).

In the last postings, the notion came across that it is important at which times of day you expose yourself to as much light as possible. Can you say again when that is? I assume midday, and not before sleeping. Would gradually lowering the light exposure over the day, and with the brightest setting in the morning be sensible?

You want light like the sun, so you want the brightest/most light about 12 hours away from when melatonin should peak, IMHO. I go to bed at 9-10pm, expect peak melatonin about 2-3 hours later, so I'm trying to get peak light somewhere in the range 11am-3pm. Brightest lights first thing in the morning or close to bed time are likely to move the timing of your melatonin peak, which could actually worsen acne. You don't want melatonin trying to rise just as you're getting up in the morning and getting light in your eyes -- won't sleep good and won't decrease acne either.

Note that indoor lights have never been as effective for me as outdoor (possibly because of lack of UVA, possibly from other factors I don't know of). I have to really stay in front of those lights for at least 10 hours (e.g., 9am-8pm with some breaks for lunch, etc.).

You've had accutane and it's hard to rule out the possibility that that caused changes in your eye. Is there any way you can, by hook or crook, set aside a week to live with your eyes outdoors all day (or at least 11am-3pm or so)? If I were you, my main question would be just to know whether I could actually demonstrate a dramatic impact on acne, and the best bet for answering that question is with extended outdoor exposure (and all the other stuff you need for normalizing the cycle: avoiding caffeine, use sleep mask, etc.). If you can't make a difference with real sunlight, it's unlikely you can with simulated sunlight, so then no need to waste the time/money on it.

Hi Databased,

Thanks for everything you have written in this thread. I'm fairly certain that I owe you a debt of gratitude.

Quick question: Do you think my home office environment (pictured below) will allow the proper amount of light required to comply with your regimen? I have two windows open. I live in Arizona, where the sun is (obviously) pretty strong. I have stayed up till after 3 am most nights of my life. I will begin waking up as early as possible this week, working in the light, and report my findings back to you.

Out of curiosity, how much money do you think you would need for a research grant?

Is there any way you can, by hook or crook, set aside a week to live with your eyes outdoors all day (or at least 11am-3pm or so)?

In a little over two months, I have about 3 weeks of spare time. I still need to do work at a computer, but I had bought a laptop and will try to use that outdoors. Or do you think I need to actually look into air/sky/.. and not into a laptop screen? I think it should be the same, unless the light emitted from the laptop screen somehow "neutralizes" the sunlight. Which sounds pretty ridiculous, but hell..it's acne.

Since you mentioned that tomatojuice can decrease sebum, I googled what else, and it turns out that melons are almost as good. And as it happens, the summer 2008 I mentioned somewhere, when I had almost no acne and was outdoors much more than usual: I also ate looots of melons. (like 6kg a week which is ~13 pounds as Google tells me)

Nobody but me wants UVA to reach their eyes .

Maybe I can remove the UV filter...hm, it would be pretty helpful to know if the UV from the lamps is the same as from the sun. Because if it is different, it might still damage my eyes/skin. But heck, I think too much lol. I'll just buy a lamp, even if it's just to heighten my mood in the winter. Maybe a lamp for plants or reptiles lol. At least those are designed to be as natural as possible.

btw, interesting fact maybe: I had acne since I was 12, and first jerked off at 18. (religious parents, doesn't matter). I still had lots of pimples, but never inflammation. At ~20 I got my first inflammated pimples. So I find it very hard to see any connection between...well anything lol. I doubt that it takes 2 years to develop a hormone inbalance.

Quick question: Do you think my home office environment (pictured below) will allow the proper amount of light required to comply with your regimen?

Hard to guess -- maybe. I have begun to suspect that UVA is an important part of what makes outdoor light so much more effective, and the glass in the windows will block a significant chunk of that out.

When you're outdoors with head and eyes naked, your retina is getting bombarded from nearly an entire half-sphere of directions, and much of the day/year that includes significant UVA. The same animal study that found activity for UVA found it also for green light (we're talking here about suppressing melatonin in the retina, not in the pineal gland). There's often more green light (plant bounces) outdoors as well. It's just hard to gauge how big a reduction for whatever might be relevant when sitting indoors with a window.

Out of curiosity, how much money do you think you would need for a research grant?

Well, you first need to get some real scientists with beards interested, and then find out how much money they would require to go after something you're interested in. The number can vary widely; NIH targeted grants go from $25,000 to $250,000. If you can think of something interesting to do with demographics, sometimes you can find someone already planning a survey who will be willing to throw in a question or two for you. Alas, money's tight all over these days, so research has tightened up somewhat. One of these days I would like to write up the entire idea and see if I can use that to prod one of the researchers already doing relevant things to branch out into looking at the melatonin/acne connection.

Or do you think I need to actually look into air/sky/.. and not into a laptop screen?

I did pretty well working outdoors with a laptop, but that was 10-12 hours each day. Too soon to say, but for about a week I've gotten similar results with just 2-3 hours total exposure, but much of that is spent with eyeglasses off and staring at the sky (clouds really, since Seattle is far from its brief sunny season).

I was careful to position myself so that there was lots of sky in my field of vision, and when not doing anything else, I would generally make an effort to look at the sky. Sitting in the shade facing a dark building might not have worked, dunno.

And as it happens, the summer 2008 I mentioned somewhere, when I had almost no acne and was outdoors much more than usual: I also ate looots of melons. (like 6kg a week which is ~13 pounds as Google tells me)

Wow, that's a lotta melons! For me, the massive amount of lycopene is kind of an independent variable from acne. Less grease, but if that's all I do, I still get acne. OTOH, the effects of mounting a big nighttime melatonin surge are sometimes stunning. The other morning I was marveling at how... white my face was, which made me realize that often, even in places where there is no visible acne, I would have redness that I used to think was normal, but now begin to believe was just generalized inflammation.

I had acne since I was 12, and first jerked off at 18.

The Trobriand Islanders have sex early and often, and their teenagers have zero acne. With the abnormal melatonin cycles I suspect most folks living in civilization have, it doesn't seem unlikely to me that a variety of things could push you over into having more acne than the average: zinc loss via semen, hormonal fluctuations related to sex, a high GI diet, fructose, etc.

Well, you first need to get some real scientists with beards interested, and then find out how much money they would require to go after something you're interested in. The number can vary widely; NIH targeted grants go from $25,000 to $250,000. If you can think of something interesting to do with demographics, sometimes you can find someone already planning a survey who will be willing to throw in a question or two for you. Alas, money's tight all over these days, so research has tightened up somewhat. One of these days I would like to write up the entire idea and see if I can use that to prod one of the researchers already doing relevant things to branch out into looking at the melatonin/acne connection.

If the 14k+ viewers of this thread all spent 10 bucks, you would get pretty close :surprised:

need sleep! yes!

need sleep! yes!

No, just big melatonin surge every night. Two related but not identical things. 😀

Did the sleep doctor put you in a sleep lab for a couple of nights hooked up to probes? If not, I would suggest there might be a better specialist to see. It would be nice to know if you have some specific health issue that is impacting your ability to sleep.

The doctor did eventually send me to a sleep lab, but I am very sensitive to any type of disturbance when I'm sleeping--noise, light, physical discomfort of any kind--and could not fall asleep with all the wires stuck to my head. They actually sent me home in the middle of the night because i wasn't sleeping. They seemed kind of annoyed, like I was doing it on purpose, lol. I don't have insurance anymore, and I'm also broke, so I won't be able to get this checked out anytime soon.

I've spent a lot of time tinkering with factors related to sleep, and all my self-experiments lead me back to concluding that the most important contributor by far is light exposure.

I probably haven't been getting the ideal amount of outdoor light for the past several months (although for the past few weeks I have made a point of getting outside), but there have been certain periods in my life when I was spending much of the day outside, everyday. Still, in those times, I slept like crap and felt like crap when I woke up.

The funny thing is though, while there are many posters on this thread who can correlate times of poor sleep with increased breakouts, I cannot. My sleep--quality, quantity, timing--has certainly been horrible over the years (the worst of which were in college when I would stay up frequently past 4am, and have to be up for a 9am class...), but my acne was very, very light in those times. Actually, I might occasionally get a single pimple, but there were also long periods when I was completely clear. It was not until recent months when my acne started getting out of control, and by contrast, I have been going to bed earlier and at the same time each night, and getting more sleep. What the heck right?

Anyway, thanks databased for all the info and suggestions! This thread has been very interesting!

I am completely clear, thanks to this zinc-less acne regimen. I might start a personal log detailing my attempt at following the regimen created by Databased, but for now I am only going to post a brief summary here.

I have had problem acne for 16 years, (ages 17-33) and I was generally the most nocturnal, sun fearing/avoiding person you will ever meet. Despite having pale skin, fair skin, and living in Arizona, I never wore sun screen because I simply did not go into sunlight. I have high grade tint on all of my cars (even the front windshields). I would never let the sun touch my body or face for over 15 seconds at a time. I had the acne under moderate control, using a variety of topical techniques over the years, but I *hated* putting all those chemicals on my skin, I hated the dryness, and I hated the 1-5 active legions that were still ever present.

The DBR (databased regimen) immediately resonated with me because despite 15 years of trying every topical and diet solution, I had no real family history of acne, and I just had a gut instinct that something in my lifestyle was causing the problem.

I began taking 100-200 mgs/day of zinc, 2000-10,000 IUs of vitamin D, and a vitamin B complex pill. I also put aluminum foil over my windows, creating virtually complete darkness. I have been attempting to wake up earlier, but I still tend to fall asleep around 3-4 am and wake up around 12. As soon as I wake up I walk outside and stare at the sky for 5 minutes. After I shower, I make an effort to spend about an hour driving around (running errands) with my windows and sunroof open. I lay out by the pool (face covered) for 20 minutes/day. I still work in an indoor office (pictured above), but I make sure to keep my doors, blinds, and windows open. I try to run a second set of errands for an hour or two later in the day, and I walk outside for about 5 minutes every hour and a full hour before sunset.

Additionally, I eat no sugar or refined carbs later than an hour before sunset. Same with Caffeine and Adderall: I still take use both, but none after 4pm. (I used to drink massive amounts of coffee, take Adderall, and stay up all night writing software. It was really fun. Those days are gone forever, I guess). I haven't had alcohol since I started DBR, but I'm hoping I can phase that back in at some point.

I've been doing this for 10 days, and I am the clearest I have ever been. So it's way too early to cast final judgment. I just couldn't resist sharing the preliminary results of my attempt to follow these guidelines.

Anyhow, those are the basics. I'm completely clear. I'm about 2 days away from researching ways to eliminate the red marks and minor scaring left from my acne.

Databased is a hero... assuming the results hold up.

this is going to sound a little strange, but I get terribly bored when walking outside. That's probably because I'm in front of a computer all my waking hours usually...but still. What should I do to make this more interesting? I'm in a city. I could take a book, but where would I be able to read that outside in peace? There is no park anywhere near. I havent even seen any benches.

Another thing. Isnt databases new regimen, "only sun" and no added capsules? Why are you taking vitamins? Maybe I misread something, and you can point out to me where he said to take vitamins. Because right now I'm not taking any. Also, I read in a german forum that Vitamin D in any dose can actually be pretty harmful [Removed]

I really dont understand half of it, as you have to be a pretty good bio chemist to verify these claims, but the general twist of it is, that some guy who treats patients with chronic diseases very successfully says that you have to avoid any Vitamin D at all costs. I just wanted to say that I hate to take vitamins in general, because just so much can go wrong, and there are reports of virtually anything being harmful or healing. The body should usually do its thing alone, with as little meddling as possible. That's why I like the database regimen: it's just sun, like nature intended, without human chemics.

(edit: turns out that guy advocates to prevent any sunshine to reach you, so...I guess that rules him out for us. I still thank that you shouldnt take vitamins. Just because the general public has a positive opinion about vitamins, and "vitamins" has a nice ring to it, doesn't mean that it is not a chemical and messes with your hormones)

to make a point:

Quote

I am completely clear, thanks to this zinc-less acne regimen

...

Quote

I began taking 100-200 mgs/day of zinc,

The pills I am using are from a prior regimen authored by Databased. I don't think Databased ever declared the current regimen superior to prior regimens, which also left him acne free, simply that this one will do it without requiring a pill concoction. Personally, I'm willing to put anything in my body, at least for a few months, if there is a shot it will clear up my acne. I can get a few hours of sunlight, but I can't do the 12 hour days yet, so I figured I would throw in the pills.

I get bored walking, too. Plus I can really only do it in the last hour before the sun goes down. I download history podcasts, technology podcasts, french lessons, etc, and walk around while listening to them on my iPod.

As far as my progress goes, I was hit with an awful bout of insomnia last night. I'm assuming it has to do with changes to my sleep cycle. Prior to the night of insomnia, I had a (minor) acne legion form on my cheek. Thanks to the insomnia I was up with the sun at 5 am, so today was my first day of sunlight exposure that didn't start after 11 am. More updates to come.

There is no park anywhere near. I haven't even seen any benches.

Wow, you are in some kind of urban wasteland! I thought most cities required a certain amount of greenspace. That may doubly suck if it turns out that both green light and UVA frequencies are most relevant to get into your eye during the middle of the day; if there's no parks around, there probably won't be much green spectrum in what you see. Plus, if there's anything to attention restoration theory, then you're also missing an opportunity for some cognitive improvement (maybe the lack of nature actually contributes to the boredom factor!)

I don't have an answer, but you make me appreciate where I live. In the Seattle 'burbs, your field of view is practically clogged with plant life no matter where you walk. The power company has a full-time job just cutting back the evergreens.

Isnt databases new regimen, "only sun" and no added capsules?

Theory: You need a full nocturnal melatonin surge to avoid acne (and possibly some minor amount of zinc).

What are the ingredients that you have to be able to absorb to get those things? For sure, you need Vitamin B, tryptophan, and zinc. All those things are less likely to be absorbed if you live in dim light. Of course, you also have to avoid all the things that destroy the melatonin surge (e.g., a big ol' coffee at bedtime).

So. If you can live like pre-civilized man in outdoor light all day and have no artificial light around and eat a diet of natural foods -- no problems. Few people in modern society can do that. So, you may be able to hit some compromise. Can't get enough light during daytime eating hours? Avoiding foods that exacerbate carb malabsorption may help; a vitamin B pill may help. Are you a vegetarian? Eating gourd seed products may help you get the tryptophan you need. Etc.

Because right now I'm not taking any. Also, I read in a german forum that Vitamin D in any dose can actually be pretty harmful

IMHO, it's balderdash. Clearly we evolved to get lots of Vitamin D via sunlight (in fact, the discovery that sunlight can create 10,000IU in minutes helped spark the Vitamin D revolution). The Heaney study has clearly shown that failing to keep your Vitamin D levels high year-round is worse for your risk of cancer than smoking. Clearly, most of the world can no longer get their Vitamin D from sunshine (we don't live at the equator where we evolved any more -- field hands in India aren't even achieving the Vitamin D levels researchers view as minimal). Since the avalanche of research on Vitamin D and disease started, a great many people (including researchers and their children) have used pills to get their Vitamin D levels up, and the results have not been impaired health. If you can keep your serum levels high year-round with just sun exposure, more power to you -- but I bet you can't, especially if you don't live at low latitudes.

I used to hate taking pills too, but the problem is that I can't control the soil the plants I eat were grown in. In fact, I can pretty much guarantee that in this overpopulated world, the soil will have to be farmed with industrial methods. We just don't have enough farm land to let it "naturally" regain all the nutrients (including trace elements) we need by laying fallow for years (decades?) between plantings. Just because food is certified "organic" doesn't mean it was grown in recently cleared jungle; it was invariably grown in soil that's been farmed for a hundred years or more. It'll have however much zinc/copper/selenium/etc. the farmer added, 'cause the original soil content of those things was long ago farmed away. The day I realized I could halt arthritic symptoms in my fingers by taking a handful of pills every day was the day I made my peace with taking supplements.

OTOH, I think you're right to be skeptical about taking 200mg zinc/day. My suspicion is that most of that isn't getting absorbed (a suspicion bolstered by the study in which old folks took 100mg/day for a year without budging their blood chemistry all that much). But I wouldn't take 200mg/day for more than a few weeks without getting regular CBCs. To me, the fact that large-dose zinc can seriously impact symptoms for some people (at some times -- I can personally still have acne with large-dose zinc if I just stay up all night) is a clue, not a solution.

Plus I can really only do it in the last hour before the sun goes down.

One person's datapoint isn't worth much, but I increasingly suspect that mid-day exposure is most optimal. I've been doing an hour walk centered at lunchtime (sometimes right before, sometimes split before and after), no hat, no glasses, eyeballs naked to the sky; though sometimes I spend 20 minutes of that just sitting and staring at a huge green lawn in the park. After a week of that, I had one day where I had 2 32-ounce Cokes (one was the forbidden evening Coke!) and an evening large chocolate sundae (also normally forbidden). I totally expected acne the next day, but nothing. That's a level of acne suppression I normally only expect to see if I really have been living outdoors all day long, but I was indoors almost all day except for the noon walk.

However, the real tell is always quality of sleep, and the noon big-walk routine has been accompanied by increased reliability of sleep: getting sleepy at bedtime, sleeping soundly, not having excessive dreaming, sleeping >8 hours, and awakening feeling mentally sharp.

Of course, there's many variables I'm not controlling for. UV is hitting my skin, not just my eyes. I live on a hill, so that hour walk is at least somewhat more than mild exercise. And I normally take vitamins, though they're the same vitamins I was taking when I had plenty of acne (ah, but were they getting absorbed back then?).

Still, I suspect noon exposure is optimal both because of increased levels of UVA (and every other part of the spectrum) and because of timing. In the wild, we would always be getting the most intense light in our eyes at a time just about 12 hours away from when nighttime melatonin would be peaking.

About the tinfoil, can you clarfiy that? Isn't that going to be super costly? Tinfoil crumples easily, and my window is huge. Did I misunderstand something about that? Plus, how would you go about covering it completely, with all edges and no light bleeding. You'd need to tape several pieces together. That seems to me like a huge amount of work every evening. I think I'll go with the flow and buy some Vitamin B complex, could you maybe post a picture of the exact ingredients that are on the bottle? I can most likely not buy the same brand here in my country. I'm sure there is stuff to look out for like with zinc. Afaik, you should buy zinc only as picolinate or something.

denken,

you can buy almost all vitamins (cheaply) from iherb.com

They send to Europe, and the delivery is very fast (for me it's never more than 3 days)

About the tinfoil, can you clarfiy that? Isn't that going to be super costly? Tinfoil crumples easily, and my window is huge.

Personally, I tinfoiled about 12 foot by 4 foot worth of window in our bedroom. Took much less than one big roll of foil. Tedious, but doable. I just pulled out one vertical sheet at a time, overlapping the edges. Position on the window nice and flat, crumple around window edges and use Scotch tape. It kinda wants to lay flat already, the main pain is getting all the little edges taped flat to eliminate all the teeny cracks where light can come in.

That seems to me like a huge amount of work every evening.

Ah, that explains the confusion -- no, those windows are dark forever. Although, the windows on the end can be opened, so I actually can slide them open to let in light during the day.

If I were building a new house, I think I would try for old-fashioned wooden shutters in the bedroom (old fashioned, but still seen in places like Alaska, where being able to black out the bedroom is crucial).

I think I'll go with the flow and buy some Vitamin B complex

If you think about it, the U.S. supplements Vitamin B in the food supply just to reduce the number of birth defects. Anytime you have to supplement an entire nation just to reduce acute disease conditions, you gotta wonder if that's not something many people's diet is desperately short of. If you buy a twice-a-day B complex with "B-50" in the name, or a once-a-day with "B-100" in the name, I suspect it will have been manufactured by the same place that seems to make most of the B vitamins in the world. The only problem zinc I know of is zinc sulfate, which produces more unpleasant digestive problems, which is what gave rise to the many alternatives (gluconate, picolinate, etc.).

could you maybe post a picture of the exact ingredients that are on the bottle?

Here.

Any update fellas (economist or database)? Nice long read, definitely food for the brain.

Hey The Economist are you planning to do the indoor lighting setup to supplement your DBR when you are indoors? I may need to set this up because I know for the time being I can't be outdoors all day, but I will surely do my best.

Have you increased your outdoor sun exposure and if so about how much of the sun light hits your skin? Do you normally look up and stare into the sky while achieving your exposure or do you go about it nonchalantly? I want an exact duplication of your actions.

Is there a specific brand of zinc or selenium pills as backup that you or database find preferable over other brands?

I want to achieve this and be the next subject to replicate your results. Even if the results are half of what is expected, that is enough for me to suspect this definitely must be studied to a greater extent.

As of right now, I am going to sleep because I want to start on this as quickly as possible to see what kind of results I get. 11:03pm! Off I go...

For what it's worth, I've had great success with a 100 watt equivalent daylight spectrum compact fluorescent bulb perched near my desk where I work. I'd say it's 12-18 inches from eyes. Databased might be able to say whether or not that's close enough to cause retinal problems.....

I've been breaking out recently and have a couple thoughts. One is that late night caffeine might be worse than we think. I had ONE can of coke at like 7pm, and that seems to have caused a domino effect of 2-3 cysts.

Also, on a different day, I had a peach. Now, I don't think there's enough fructose in one peach to have such an effect on tryptophan or zinc absorption that acne follows soon after. But, I did read online that peaches (and all "stone" fruit) contain sorbitol; and that sorbitol can case the same effects - i.e. tryptophan malabsorption - as fructose.

And finally, the biggest lesson, don't get cocky and complacent just because you've been clear for a while.

For what it's worth, I've had great success with a 100 watt equivalent daylight spectrum compact fluorescent bulb perched near my desk where I work. I'd say it's 12-18 inches from eyes. Databased might be able to say whether or not that's close enough to cause retinal problems.....

I've been breaking out recently and have a couple thoughts. One is that late night caffeine might be worse than we think. I had ONE can of coke at like 7pm, and that seems to have caused a domino effect of 2-3 cysts.

Only one light bulb? How many hours would you say a day? As prescribed by database?

18 inches? My goodness that's pretty close. I need something powerful at least 2 ft. so I can use my standing tree lamp, just too bad like database said that the intensity drops substantially with even if you move a bit.

I am going through some heavy caffeine withdrawals. This part is not fun; I've done it before many years ago. However, having acne all these years has made a tougher person mentally. There is a good side to all of this! :dance:

Yesterday morning, I stopped cold turkey and boy do I feel it today. I felt extreme sluggish so I decided to exercise earlier today to give me a jolt and been drinking lots of water (at least a gallon).

Never was a big fruit or soda drinker. However, I do make fresh carrot juice a few times a week because I like it. I wonder I should cut that out even though it's a vegetable it does contain sugar.

I tried to get sun light as much as possible, but it's difficult. It's hot, super bright and I just try to stay in the shade and look up in the sky to get something in my eyes.

Have you increased your outdoor sun exposure and if so about how much of the sun light hits your skin? Do you normally look up and stare into the sky while achieving your exposure or do you go about it nonchalantly? I want an exact duplication of your actions.

After some weeks of testing, I've come to believe UVA in the eyes probably matters. Doing a 1-hour walk with naked eyes to the sky just before or after lunch appears to be close to the least amount of effort I can make to stay acne-free. (Modulo all the effort I put into sleeping well, such as going to bed early -- 10pm -- at the same time every day of the week.) I haven't taken zinc or selenium in a while, reinforcing the idea that things that make a modest difference for moderate acne can easily become irrelevant once you have a normal nocturnal melatonin surge. This is without eating anything much resembling a "healthy" diet; lunch is McDonald's with a large Coke (though I cut off caffeine after lunch). Of course, I'm also not eating much in the way of "healthy" high-fructose fruits, either.

If I could only take one pill to avoid acne, I would take a Vitamin B complex with the meal nearest bedtime. Although multiple molecules in the B family are plausibly relevant, it is certainly true that folate is consumed to make melatonin, and also certainly true that modern diets are generally low in folate (and fructose malabsorption probably interferes with folate digestion). If I could only take one molecule from the Vitamin B family, I would go with a folic acid pill with the evening meal (that hopefully is not interlarded with high-fructose fruits or fizzy drinks).

During most of the time I've spent experimenting with removing my glasses to greatly increase the UVA hitting my retina, the skies have been overcast and the weather cool (yup, it's June and you still need a coat in Seattle this year!) So, only my head and hands have been exposed to (indirect, through the clouds) sunlight for the most part. I have not taken the further step to wear a ski mask to limit face exposure... because there are already too many wackos wandering the 'burbs. 😀 I do try to spend that hour walk looking at the brightest part of the (cloud-covered) sky, but realistically that's only a fraction of the total time, since walking dogs requires a lot of glancing down if you don't want to fall over. If there are other opportunities to get my eyes outdoors (e.g., reading outside instead of inside), I take them, but they rarely amount to the amount of time (about an hour) devoted to the noon-ish or afternoon outdoor walk.

In the middle of this experiment, I was able to easily and rapidly (within 1-2 days) recreate acne by disrupting (evening caffeine, staying up late, sleeping only 5 hours) my sleep pattern, and then almost as rapidly shut it down again by getting back on schedule.

This experiment might not work so well with so little light exposure come December when, at my latitude, UVA from the sun will be dramatically less.

Hi Databased,

I have a question about UVA. My current understanding is that standing in the sun, my body is blasted with a massive dose of UVA. On the other hand, sitting in the shade but looking at the sky allows me to receive a dose of UVA that is too low for my skin to tan, but strong enough for my eyes/pineal gland to suppress melatonin. Is this correct?

Thanks.

Only one light bulb? How many hours would you say a day? As prescribed by database?

It's just a regular compact fluorescent - not a 4' long bulb like Databased talks about. It is 6,5000K, or "Daylight spectrum". I used it in a regular desk lamp, kind of pointed toward me above my computer whenever I worked. 100 watt equivalent is pretty strong, but it only gives off, I believe, 1,600 lumens.

While using that bulb at my desk, I was 100% clear. I haven't used it for the past few weeks because I moved, and now acne is back. I can't say whether that is the cause, but it's awfully suspicious...

Databased: based on your knowledge of luminosity and retinal damage (I remember reading you had some retinal lesions from an earlier light setup you were using), would you say 1,600 lumens of 6,500K at 18" from eyes is unsafe?

Only one light bulb? How many hours would you say a day? As prescribed by database?

It's just a regular compact fluorescent - not a 4' long bulb like Databased talks about. It is 6,5000K, or "Daylight spectrum". I used it in a regular desk lamp, kind of pointed toward me above my computer whenever I worked. 100 watt equivalent is pretty strong, but it only gives off, I believe, 1,600 lumens.

 

That's what I am using right now as well. Though I have it is about 18-24 inches away from me. I don't know yet if it has made a difference. I will give it some time before I post the results.

I will give it some time before I post the results.

Please do.

When I was using it many hours each day, I was literally 100% clear. Also, I was sleeping like a baby.

I've broken out a little about a week ago, and while there are other factors - I've been exercising less, hadn't been taken my normal Vitamin D supplement, had a can of coke one evening.... - a major factor is that I haven't been using the bulb.

So...I will get back to it, and see what happens.

I will give it some time before I post the results.

Please do.

When I was using it many hours each day, I was literally 100% clear. Also, I was sleeping like a baby.

I've broken out a little about a week ago, and while there are other factors - I've been exercising less, hadn't been taken my normal Vitamin D supplement, had a can of coke one evening.... - a major factor is that I haven't been using the bulb.

So...I will get back to it, and see what happens.

 

The 26 watt - (100 watt equivalent) CFL is shining on me for nearly a good 10-12 hours. Maybe I should add another one to increase intensity since it is a little farther away than your setup.

There are other treatments I am currently conducting. I am using such ACV, zinc50, D-3, b50, etc. to hurry up the process of becoming clear (if it ever does). I currently cut down my exercise routine (weights and cardio) to down to about one day a week.

If I received more sun light I could probably give up all the extra supplements indefinitely. However, for the time being I will stay on this plan.

I tried these things years ago, but this time I am sticking to it with rigidity and the utmost strictness and recording every minute detail of changes that unfolds.