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Would love feedback on this. I've been following a super healthy diet of no added fats (except for tiny amount of EVO for cooking) and only whole foods --- lots of dark greens, tubers, berries, etc. and no dairy, sugars, alcohol, caffeine, junk, etc. I eat salmon or other wild fish a couple times a week. My skin has improved dramatically and I'm almost clear except for 1-2 small whiteheads every couple of days and a couple of flat red spots on cheeks every month or so (rosacea).
A recent rosacea research article about vitamin D3 causing breakouts http://www.rosacea.org/weblog/rosacea-affected-too-much-vitamin-d got me thinking about fish oil too. I upped both Vitamin D3 and fish oil (Nordic Naturals) last spring (hey - more of a good thing - right?). I'm thinking that's about when the rosacea spots on cheeks and the whiteheads around my mouth area started.
I've always wondered about fish oil and if I might be getting too much. Since I've been avoiding all vegetable oils (omega-6) and am eating so many Omega-3 rich foods, I'm wondering if I even need fish oil. Can the Omega balance get unbalanced in the other direction --- ie too much Omega-3???
And then there's the issue of too much vitamin D3. I upped D3 because more is supposed to be better --- right??? But is this true for people who have rosacea...even mild rosacea like me? And what about all those adults who struggle with acne but may also have an underlying rosacea problem?
Anyway...would love some feedback. I'm beginning to think that if you do all the right things...like eat super healthy then suppliments might be too much! What do you think?
Here's a portion of the rosacea article...
In the new study, published in Cutaneous and Ocular Toxicology, researchers checked levels of vitamin D in the blood of 44 rosacea patients and 32 individuals without the disorder. They found those with rosacea had an average vitamin D level 25 percent higher than the healthy individuals. Although the researchers noted that larger studies are needed to confirm a clear effect, they felt these results "suggest that increased vitamin D levels may lead to the development of rosacea." This is one of the first studies to examine vitamin D's relationship with rosacea. In a study related to NRS-funded research on cathelicidins, a type of protective molecule found in the skin, Dr. Jurgen Schauber and Dr. Richard Gallo unexpectedly discovered that vitamin D3 is involved in the regulation of cathelicidins, and may thus help create an active form of the molecules that appear to cause the bumps and pimples of rosacea.
http://www.rosacea.org/weblog/rosacea-affected-too-much-vitamin-d
Yes and yes. I had more breakouts with both D3 and fish oil, and also some stomach pains, so I think I just can't tolerate some oils. D3 can break you out if you have a sensitivity to: lanolin, oil, or yeast. I personally had more luck with plant-based D2 supplements, but I couldn't find them at the store. I got a prescription for it because I'm deficient.
Omega-3's in fish oil capsules can be especially sensitive to oxidation and turning rancid. So if you're downing a bunch of rancid fish oil a day, I would say that's not good for your body.
Also, regardless of the amount of fish oil you take, your body only synthesizes about 1 gram of omega-3 a day (citation needed I know). It's possible eating excess omega-3 and maxing out absorption rate caused an imbalance in your 3:6 ratio, making you omega-3 dominant. Possible, but I wouldn't say likely.
There's also a sweet spot for vitamin D. I would not exceed serum levels of 80 ng/ml. That is a possibility. I wouldn't exceed taking 10,000 IU a day.
Vitamin D2 and D3 I don't personally believe are interchangeable for supplementation, so I don't agree with the above post to swap D3 for D2.
Omega-3's in fish oil capsules can be especially sensitive to oxidation and turning rancid. So if you're downing a bunch of rancid fish oil a day, I would say that's not good for your body.
Also, regardless of the amount of fish oil you take, your body only synthesizes about 1 gram of omega-3 a day (citation needed I know). It's possible eating excess omega-3 and maxing out absorption rate caused an imbalance in your 3:6 ratio, making you omega-3 dominant. Possible, but I wouldn't say likely.
There's also a sweet spot for vitamin D. I would not exceed serum levels of 80 ng/ml. That is a possibility. I wouldn't exceed taking 10,000 IU a day.
Vitamin D2 and D3 I don't personally believe are interchangeable for supplementation, so I don't agree with the above post to swap D3 for D2.
I agree that D2 and D3 aren't interchangeable, but for people who can't tolerate D3 supplements, D2 is the only other option (besides sunlight and maybe some fortified products, although D2 is used in some of those). For me, this was the only thing that worked, after trying out all kinds of D3 supplements with no luck. If I could, I would gladly take D3 every day and save the hassle of getting a prescription for D2, but unfortunately I can't do that. I only mentioned it as an option since she said D3 might be making her skin worse.
Thanks so much for the feedback! I've tried other omega-3 oils in the past with bad results. Flaxseed oil was the worst...immediate flare-up. My skin must be especially sensitive to oils. And that's not so odd since oils are very concentrated. I seem to do best with foods that are in their whole state...i.e. fish versus a pill. I'm coming to the belief (once again) that nature knows what it's doing --- especially with foods. Isolating one element of a food in a pill upsets the balance and ignores other equally important elements.
Several years ago, I got a very interesting printout from my family doctor (who is rather wholistic in approach) that lists foods according to the equivalent suppliment...i.e. foods high in omega-3 fatty acids, flavonoids, vitamin A, etc. I can mail a copy to anyone that wants it.
At that time I was experiencing a horrific breakout due to a former derm who insisted I abruptly stop all oral and topical meds to see what would happen. I went to my family doctor in tears and he recommended allergy testing, hormone testing, and high-dose probiotics to heal my gut from years of antibiotics. I was desperate for relief and turned to any suppliments I could find that might help. My family doc was skeptical that suppliments would help...and might even make things worse but I ignored him on that point. He encouraged me to eat nutrient dense whole foods...i.e. salmon 3x/wk instead of fish oil. At this same time I started going to my current derm who put me on the regime below and it started working immediately. But I kept on using all the suppliments (multi-vitamin, C, fish oil, calcium with D3, magnesium, etc.) because I was scared and not sure what was helping. Ever been in that frame of mind...terrified that awful acne will return so doing anything and everything to stop it but not sure what is really helping?
Within the past 2 years I've totally revamped my diet to one that is very nutrient rich. This came about from successfully following a strict allergy diet (...in my quest to avoid past horrific breakouts...) and discovering a new way to eat which is mostly vegetable based. Now I'm also avoiding added oils so I'm eating even more nutrient rich foods to make up for lost calories from those added fats. I'm now realizing after doing some calculations that this way of eating has put me way over the top on most common nutrients (A, C, D, etc). In addition I get out and walk 30 mintues everyday so I get plenty of sunshine even in winter. I read somewhere that suppliments were originally designed for people with ailments who were very sick. They were never meant for healthy people who eat well. But I've ignored that...mainly in my desire for a quick fix to acne. I admit that every time I added a new suppliment I would think...maybe this is the "one" that will cure my acne! But it never has...
So I am getting rid of all my suppliments (scary...) except for zinc picolinate, a probiotic and a half-dose of calcium with D3 (works out to below daily RDA). I can't stop calcium yet because I admit I've been thoroughly indoctrinated by our wonderful media into believing that if I don't take calcium my bones will fall apart and I'll die (ha!).
I've had such a dramatic change in my skin after avoiding added oils that I think I may be on the right track. And what are suppliments but processed concentrated and often fake lab equivalents of nutrients?
I think rancidity is a huge issue that is not often addressed. It's often ignored because rancid stuff in a little plastic pill is not something you can really see. Sometimes you can't even smell it. But it's just as bad as...eating moldy bread or something like that.
I had some issues with fish oil + D3 supplements originally and went off of them for a long time. Until I was tested for D again and was very low despite going outside regularly.
However, I have been taking fish oil + D3 for a number of months now, but I had them shipped in a cold pack by a seller that stores them in a fridge and I keep them in the refrigerator myself. I have not noticed any side effects this time around. I use the NutriGold D3 brand and the NOW brand for fish oil.
I am one of those that definitely needs to supplement D3 because I have NO melanin in my skin, and I burn very quickly. (Also in many parts of the northern hemisphere, you don't even get the right UVB rays for natural D3 production from about October to March..)
Perhaps the issue is not with the nutrients, but the supplements. Or your diet. Do You eat fatty foods, just avoid added fats? That should be god. And if you eat fish or products from pastured animals while limiting seeds, you shouldn't need to supplement.
Anyway, I have rosacea which is controlled by my diet. Adding and removing fish oil & D supplements never made any difference to it. Also, my D levels were not high the one time I had them tested, which contradicts that theory. My levils, even though I supplemented and made an effort to get some from the sun, were just barely what conventional medicine considers adequate. Which means they weren't adequate.
This paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2729115/ which was a reference in the article you linked to, is an excellent addition to my research into linoleic acid, normal mammalian skin function & skin problems, (and trying to find a solution for my dogs skin problems). It's long and ill have to study & dissect the info carefully as dont have the background to easily take it all in. But it doesn't look to me like D & cathelicidin are the cause. (Most of the Paper is about deficiency in western, modern society and it looks like its mostly discussing the use of D or UVB as treatments) There's just an abnormal response with cathelicidin in skin with impaired skin.
Remember they are always going to look for something they can make a drug for. And drugs that impairs your body's ability to make vital nutrients (like with statins & cholesterol) are bad ideas.
I always appreciate your input, Alternativista. Yes, I eat whole foods that are higher in fats such as avocados, fatty wild fish and free range organic turkey. I avoid added fats such as margarines, butter, and vegetable oils (except EVO in miniscule amounts). Once a week or so I eat some raw organic pumpkin seeds...is this bad? I like them for the zinc and thought the Omega-6 was less usable.
Interesting article...will take time to read it. Yes, it seems the goal of most research is primarily to make another pill...and then more pills to counteract the side-effects!
I always appreciate your input, Alternativista. Yes, I eat whole foods that are higher in fats such as avocados, fatty wild fish and free range organic turkey. I avoid added fats such as margarines, butter, and vegetable oils (except EVO in miniscule amounts). Once a week or so I eat some raw organic pumpkin seeds...is this bad? I like them for the zinc and thought the Omega-6 was less usable.
Interesting article...will take time to read it. Yes, it seems the goal of most research is primarily to make another pill...and then more pills to counteract the side-effects!
That's all good.
My skin broke out when I tried mega-dosing with fish oil (i.e. taking 3 doses a day), however taking a single dose a day doesn't make me break out and helps keep my skin more supple. I take 2000mg of D3/day because I was deficient. I tried taking more as recommended by my naturopathic doctor, but experienced constipation. :S
I was consuming much more than 2000 mg of D3 a day. Multi-vitamin (1000 D3) + calcium/D3 (1000) + vitamin D3 suppliment (2000) = 4000 mg D3. I've now switched to a multi-vitamin with 500 mg D2 and halved my calcium pill (500 mg D3).. This may be better as far as helping the rosacea.
Interestingly, since stopping the fish oil my digestion is better. I've gone back and forth on taking fish oil...always the highest quality (Nordic brand)...but regardless, I'd get an upset stomach after taking it awhile.
I seem to do better not consuming any kind of added oils...including fish oils. My skin is much less inflammatory now that I've been doing this, and especially after stopping fish oil. I eat salmon twice a week, other fish, and lots of chia seed (high omega-3) so I think I must be okay.
