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While this is very interesting, fact remains (im not sure how many can relate) that I can NOT put oil on my skin...i feel AWFUL and DIRTY if my skin is oily...Ive put various oils on my skin (jajoba, hemp,) and while they do 'soak in' i can help but feel the creepy crawly oilyness overcome me and i need to wash it off.
would be nice to find something to balance your body's skin lipid profile internally, as opposed to topically...
While this is very interesting, fact remains (im not sure how many can relate) that I can NOT put oil on my skin...i feel AWFUL and DIRTY if my skin is oily...Ive put various oils on my skin (jajoba, hemp,) and while they do 'soak in' i can help but feel the creepy crawly oilyness overcome me and i need to wash it off.
would be nice to find something to balance your body's skin lipid profile internally, as opposed to topically...
So wash it off after a bit with a warm wash cloth. As in oil cleansing. And you balance your lipid profile internally by consuming the right lipids. But we don't necessarily have a dietary or systemic deficiency of linoleic acid. Just a deficiency in our sebum. I've posted a few reasons why that might be in this thread such as a mutated gene that has been identified.
While this is very interesting, fact remains (im not sure how many can relate) that I can NOT put oil on my skin...i feel AWFUL and DIRTY if my skin is oily...Ive put various oils on my skin (jajoba, hemp,) and while they do 'soak in' i can help but feel the creepy crawly oilyness overcome me and i need to wash it off.
I occasionally oil cleanse using grape seed oil, and basically I thoroughly cleanse my face with the oil and let it set for a while. Instead of waiting for it to soak in entirely without leaving an oily sheen, I grab a paper towel (or toilet paper) and simply dab my face of all the excess. It leaves your skin with a matte finish, and you don't even have to wash with a cleanser
See this older thread that starts with a link to a study that found the enzymes involved in normal desquammation don't work so well without water, as in skin lacking a sufficient moisture barrier. And then there's all kinds of talk/studies on linoleic acid and the deficiency found in acne prone skin.
http://www.acne.org/...5-desquamation/
Note, your skin also needs to be at the right PH for these enzymes to function. Another reason you shouldn't use alkaline cleansers and topicals.
Very interesting. I read it all. I strongly believe it is the gut bacteria which is the underlying issue here. Not a genetic factor... other than perhaps a predisposition to gut dysbiosis.
Possible connection to why Zinc helps people.
Very interesting. I read it all. I strongly believe it is the gut bacteria which is the underlying issue here. Not a genetic factor... other than perhaps a predisposition to gut dysbiosis.
Possible connection to why Zinc helps people.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8104673
You think the gut affects metabolism of lipids in the skin? Because this is not necessarily about a dietary or systemic deficiency. Only a deficiency in the skin/sebum. Also, since there's no reason to believe that my gut was in any worse shape than all my clear skinned peers, I think that all the researchers that have identified mutated genes in acne prone skin are probably on to something.
And zinc helps people in many, many ways.
Very interesting. I read it all. I strongly believe it is the gut bacteria which is the underlying issue here. Not a genetic factor... other than perhaps a predisposition to gut dysbiosis.
Possible connection to why Zinc helps people.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8104673
You think the gut affects metabolism of lipids in the skin? Because this is not necessarily about a dietary or systemic deficiency. Only a deficiency in the skin/sebum. Also, since there's no reason to believe that my gut was in any worse shape than all my clear skinned peers, I think that all the researchers that have identified mutated genes in acne prone skin are probably on to something.
And zinc helps people in many, many ways.
sorry to change the subject but just quickly on the zinc. would you classify a zinc test using that solution more reliable than a blood test? My natural specialist made me do that test and as i didnt taste anything when i put the solution in my mouth they said i was very zinc deficiant.. but my blood test came out more than normal. I recently bought more zinc, (i've never noticed a difference in acne when taking zinc). but then someone else on the board told me you shouldnt supplement zinc because we get more than enough in foods and also it increases testosterone and can 'mess you up'. basically they scared me off it obviously so i havent taken more but would you be able to clear up anything regarding zinc, i really dont want to increase testosterone >.<
also im a bit curious do you know how its even possible to get very low on zinc? would that be because im taking birth control?
thankyou 
Very interesting. I read it all. I strongly believe it is the gut bacteria which is the underlying issue here. Not a genetic factor... other than perhaps a predisposition to gut dysbiosis.
Possible connection to why Zinc helps people.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8104673
You think the gut affects metabolism of lipids in the skin? Because this is not necessarily about a dietary or systemic deficiency. Only a deficiency in the skin/sebum. Also, since there's no reason to believe that my gut was in any worse shape than all my clear skinned peers, I think that all the researchers that have identified mutated genes in acne prone skin are probably on to something.
And zinc helps people in many, many ways.
You have much to learn about the effect of the microbiota of the gut on the entire human body It's a deeper subject than people realise.
If even autism is linked then consider what else is linked. This isn't quack science. There are a tonne of journals out there linking various strains with metabolic effects etc.
Only a tenth of the cells within our body are human. Only 100th of the genetic code being expressed within our body is human.
The rest lies with the bacteria, protozoa and fungi.
I'm convinced most conditions originate from the gut.
Question, extra virgin olive oil has oleic acid which is bad for acne, if I stop using it will my skin get better or do I have to use something with linoleic acid in it?
I used EVOO for many months, and found it to be a bit irritating to the skin. I then switched to grape seed oil for when i occasionally oil cleanse and found it to be much better for the skin. Another great one (among many) is rose hip seed oil
Not a scientific article, but just some quick info on rose hip seed oil
http://www.100pureessentialoils.com/carrier-oils/rosehip-seed-oil.html
Or this one. Again not a scientific article, but some more info
http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/learn/oilprofile/rosehiporganic.php
Very interesting. I read it all. I strongly believe it is the gut bacteria which is the underlying issue here. Not a genetic factor... other than perhaps a predisposition to gut dysbiosis.
Possible connection to why Zinc helps people.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8104673
You think the gut affects metabolism of lipids in the skin? Because this is not necessarily about a dietary or systemic deficiency. Only a deficiency in the skin/sebum. Also, since there's no reason to believe that my gut was in any worse shape than all my clear skinned peers, I think that all the researchers that have identified mutated genes in acne prone skin are probably on to something.
And zinc helps people in many, many ways.
You have much to learn about the effect of the microbiota of the gut on the entire human body
It's a deeper subject than people realise.
If even autism is linked then consider what else is linked. This isn't quack science. There are a tonne of journals out there linking various strains with metabolic effects etc.
Only a tenth of the cells within our body are human. Only 100th of the genetic code being expressed within our body is human.
The rest lies with the bacteria, protozoa and fungi.
I'm convinced most conditions originate from the gut.
Yeah, thanky you, but I know those things you listed and much, much more. And that gut microflora is very important and affects many things. But I am not convinced that most conditions originate in the gut.
I've no reason to believe there has ever been very much of a problem with my gut. Especially not at the time I first developed acne at age 10. possibly in my later teens and early 20s when dermatologists gave me antibiotics and I drank more soda. You have to remember that I am older than most of you. My parents were not of the junk food, soda and pharmaceuticals for everything generation. They were of the generation where their parents raised their own food made homemade saurkraut and they had little money to spare for convenience foods. And in fact when I was a child, we gardened, soda came in much smaller bottles which were shared amongst 4 kids, I made homemade yogurt, etc.
If my gut didn't function well, I'd get ill once in a while. I have never had digestion issues. Am not riddled with allergies. I've never gotten sick while traveling and I've traveled throughout the interior of Mexico, Honduras and Guatemala. etc.
Question, extra virgin olive oil has oleic acid which is bad for acne, if I stop using it will my skin get better or do I have to use something with linoleic acid in it?
I used EVOO for many months, and found it to be a bit irritating to the skin. I then switched to grape seed oil for when i occasionally oil cleanse and found it to be much better for the skin. Another great one (among many) is rose hip seed oil
Not a scientific article, but just some quick info on rose hip seed oil
http://www.100purees...p-seed-oil.html
Or this one. Again not a scientific article, but some more info
http://www.mountainr...ehiporganic.php
Yeah, I ordered some rose hip seed oil, but it had an odor so I was hesitant to use it. And I couldn't get a straight answer from anyone on whether or not it should have an odor. It's probably still in my cupboard and probably years old.
Rosehip seed oil is about 45% linoleic acid, but it has it's other benefits.
Question, extra virgin olive oil has oleic acid which is bad for acne, if I stop using it will my skin get better or do I have to use something with linoleic acid in it?
I can't really tell you what will happen to your skin. I used to use olive oil and didn't have much problem with it. But I've found a high linoleic acid to be much better.
And since this thread is chock full of research and information about how problem skin of all types including acne is deficient in linoleic acid and the many ways linoleic acid would help prevent acne, it seems a no brainer.
I've no reason to believe there has ever been very much of a problem with my gut.
If my gut didn't function well, I'd get ill once in a while.
I wouldn't assume the latter proves the former.... 
I bought some grapeseed oil today and will be experimenting with it topically on my face.
In case this is pertinent: Prostaglandin D synthase and D2 synthase. Enzymes that are factors in male pattern baldness and arachidonic acid metabolism. And so perhaps a factor in linoleic acid metabolism in the skin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostaglandin-D_synthase
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidonic_acid_metabolism#Synthesis_and_cascade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid_interactions
Most AA in the human body derives from dietary linoleic acid
Essential fatty acids deficiency contributes to sebaceous gland hypertrophy and hyperkeratinization of the ducts. Linolenic acid level in the stratum corneum has been reported to be much higher in normal subjects than that in the comedones. High sebum production and the resulting low level of linoleic acid leads to hyperkeratosis and comedo formation
Im very interested in this quote as I feel my skin is deficient in linoleic acid. Ive tried for 2 years to change my sticky sebum to a normal consitency so it will not clog my pores and form comedones. I just cant seem to get it right even through diet, good supplements and topicals. I tried ingested hemp oil by using it on salads and such and applying it topically. Ive also tried grapeseed oil topically but I cant seem to get it to stop forming these hard dry plugs. The only liquids I consume are water and green tea. I ve even used green tea as a toner and wash with a gentle cleanser by Garden of Wisdom. I eat chia seeds every day on my oatmeal as well as consume flaxseeds in there too. How can I get my skin to shed properly and not have this constant plugging of pores? Its like my skin gets a build up every day of dry dead skin if I dont gently remove with a cotton cloth. It doesnt make any sense to me. Ive tried Oil cleansing when I wear makeup using an oil for sensative rosacean skin by garden of wisdom and initially applied it feels great but the next day new clogs have surfaced and the old ones are still there bulging to be released. I can often extract tons of them only for the same pore to inflame again. Leaving them alone isnt an option because more and more mulitiply. They are always so tiny and milia like and are wedged in the corners of my mouth down toward my chin. does anyone know what would inhibit my sebum to stop becoming so sticky and stuck?
On 7/20/2012 at 11:51 PM, wicky said:Essential fatty acids deficiency contributes to sebaceous gland hypertrophy and hyperkeratinization of the ducts. Linolenic acid level in the stratum corneum has been reported to be much higher in normal subjects than that in the comedones. High sebum production and the resulting low level of linoleic acid leads to hyperkeratosis and comedo formation
Im very interested in this quote as I feel my skin is deficient in linoleic acid. Ive tried for 2 years to change my sticky sebum to a normal consitency so it will not clog my pores and form comedones. I just cant seem to get it right even through diet, good supplements and topicals. I tried ingested hemp oil by using it on salads and such and applying it topically. Ive also tried grapeseed oil topically but I cant seem to get it to stop forming these hard dry plugs. The only liquids I consume are water and green tea. I ve even used green tea as a toner and wash with a gentle cleanser by Garden of Wisdom. I eat chia seeds every day on my oatmeal as well as consume flaxseeds in there too. How can I get my skin to shed properly and not have this constant plugging of pores? Its like my skin gets a build up every day of dry dead skin if I dont gently remove with a cotton cloth. It doesnt make any sense to me. Ive tried Oil cleansing when I wear makeup using an oil for sensative rosacean skin by garden of wisdom and initially applied it feels great but the next day new clogs have surfaced and the old ones are still there bulging to be released. I can often extract tons of them only for the same pore to inflame again. Leaving them alone isnt an option because more and more mulitiply. They are always so tiny and milia like and are wedged in the corners of my mouth down toward my chin. does anyone know what would inhibit my sebum to stop becoming so sticky and stuck?
Well, why don't try using a higher linoleic acid oil for your oil cleansing like grapeseed or safflower. Use a high quality brand for ingestion from a good source and store it properly. PUFAs are not stable and go rancid quickly. And have you tried things to improve fat metabolism like those listed here: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php/topic/230714-good-things-for-the-many-factors-that-lead-to-acne/page__st__20#entry2637530
So I just spotted a comment I made in the Better grains thread in which I claim to have seen a study that found that the prolamin anti-nutrients in buckwheat inhibit the oxidation of linoleic acid. I do not recall or have a link to the study. But perhaps this is of benefit to us with our linoleic acid deficiency?
Just to add some results:
After 4 days of topical application of grapeseed oil twice daily, it has not reduced oil production and has slightly exacerbated my seborrhoeic dermatitis (in comparison with either using coconut oil or nizoral cream, not in comparison to doing nothing).
I'll discontinue this and return to coconut oil for it's anti-fungal effects which benefits seb derm.
Now i'm interested to modify the linoleic acid content of my sebum from the inside.
Alternativista:
What are your thoughts on taking linoleic acid as a supplement? Heard any reports of people trying this before?
http://journals.camb...367dab8427fc72d
(link doesn't work: title of paper is 'Modication of skin composition by conjugated linoleic acid alone or with
combination of other fatty acids in mice')
Alternativista:
What are your thoughts on taking linoleic acid as a supplement? Heard any reports of people trying this before?
http://journals.camb...367dab8427fc72d
(link doesn't work: title of paper is 'Modication of skin composition by conjugated linoleic acid alone or with
combination of other fatty acids in mice')
A couple of people have posted here that they were planning to. I didn't find any studies on that and most of the researchers felt that a dietary deficiency was unlikely, especially among the general SAD eating population. The manufacturers of the supplement for dogs with sensitive skin make oral supplements as well as topical and with most dogs being fed a grain based dog food, I'd think it's unlikely they have a dietary deficiency as well.
There is a post or two in this thread filled with links to studies and research I'd found when trying to find the root cause of our linoleic acid deficiency. But I'd end up with so many open windows and so many tangents and I ran out of time and quit. But there's plenty there that you could follow up on. There is at least one or two that mention a mutation in an enzyme/gene which affects this and other factors in healthy skin and acne, so it's possible there's nothing we can do about that.
But the linoleic acid deficiency seems to be a root cause of so many factors in acne. For example since it plays a role in regulating/inhibiting 5-alpha reductase, it's a factor in why we acne prone people have more of this enzyme and thus more DHT and thus tend to have oilier skin.
Study showing a relationship between glucose tolerance, serum insulin and lipid profile/FFAs
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1185889
It's about obesity and heart disease. And I didn't bother trying to understand it. It's just some evidence that there's a connection. And I think I've posted other stuff on the affects of glucose/insulin on this linoleic acid deficiency.
when you talk about Linoleic Acid Deficiency, is it possible to take it in supplement form as well as topically? Grapeseed Oil tends to clog me as Ive tried it many times. I also have Seborrheic Dermatitis on the sides of my face which is generally aggrevated by any oils and I also suffer from Rosacea pretty much on my nose and cheeks. My skin has so many areas that need to be treated differently its hard to find one thing that works for all. My chin clogs with tiny hard solidified sebum that I have to pry out of my skin daily. This started about two years ago and I cannot figure out why or what contributed to the change. Ive tried dietary changes for almost two years now, good supplements, probiotics by the handfuls, no processed foods, water only and no water during meals. Digestive enzymes to help digest my food as I now have tested positive for many food intolerances (ALCAT Testing). I have tried restoring gut flora by repairing my gut with Glutamine and Florastore and something called Cytoflora. Nothing has worked. My skin is in a constant state of inflammation that I chase around trying to cover with concealer. It never works. The worst areas are the sides of my face toward my inner cheeks and down toward jaw. There not pimples just flat red patches that will fllare red and then die down in a few days but will always stay pink and need to be covered. Eventually they will flare up again. Ive been told they are not rosacea related because of their location and are not pimples so they do not repsond to sal acid or ahas' or even harsher things like ziana gel. Ive tried over the counter holistic rosacea treatment called Prosacea which has 1% sulfur in it. This does nothing either. Ive tried a 1% steroid that will minimize the redness but I wont continue with it and only try for it day or two. What am I missing? I am also dry and flakey but oily at the same time. I have researched with for two years and am obsessed with finding the answer because derms are useless but I cannot achieve my goals. My quality of life has completley changed and really dont know what to do anymore. I have lost over 40lbs on my 5'9 frame and cannot afford to lose anymore. Im look terrible.
My stomach is also a disaster. It seems to be okay in the morning and I have regular bowel movements but by the time I eat dinner (which is lean protein, meats, veggies, fish and some brown rice or quinoa) it is a churnning gurgling mess. It makes load noises when finally sit down to watch a little TV so many thats why I hear it more. What can I try?