Do you think applying grapeseed oil to say my forehead where i dont have clogs or ingesting it would help? I cant change my skin and its killing me after all these years...Also is grapeseed extract supplments the same as grapeseed oil?

 

The extracts are probably about the poly phenols and other phytonutrients with the oil removed. And yes, you can apply it elsewhere. Use it on your arms, hands and legs.

I think linoleic acids role in sebum and skin is pretty clearly spelled out in the first post and title.

 

Ok I guess it does.. see comments.. answers.. some more doubts, questions..

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-how does it prevent acne from forming, how does it disrupt the acne forming system? (anti-inflammatory/reduced inflammation, antimicrobial, ok..)

-what does it do to existing pimples? (this is not really answered but you can't exactly anti-inflame an existing acne or make the pimple dissapear any faster than normal unaltered process, but i suppose an anti-inflammatory response will help at least like 5% or something).

-how does it affect/alter the sebum in formed acne? (I can't really believe it will do this, I don't think grapeseed oil/safflower is strong enough to normalize existing sebaceous conditions like pustules, clogged pores, active sebum filled pimples, I can't imagine it willl liquidify hard sebum pebbles in pores or melt blackheads, or liquidify waxy pustules.)

-does it help normalize sebum? does it liquidify waxy thick sebum into.. waterry thin sebum? (you mentioned regulating PPAR receptors that will be reducing sebum production. So it somehow alters the sebum controller receptors and boom, less sebum? I dont know.. I don't think it works like that, imo.

Also,how strong is grapeseed oil/safflower oil, how long does it take? does it clog pores? has it been tested, can you point me to the post where there is information on that?)

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I hope you don't think I'm attacking you, these 2 products (grapeseed and safflower) do not seem much different than some thing like jojoba oil or.. olive oil, tea tree oil which I heard some of the same things about, and their pros did not outweigh the cons to me and they definitely did not reduce sebum production for me atleast.)

Research is one thing, but what if these products only work for weaker acne? Have you found any numbers/percentages in your research? Such as at what rate the sebum was decreased? have humans been tested? this would allow us to guesstimate on how long to use these grapeseed/saff oils..can you point me to some measured results? I also don't think I found any cons listed in your post.. atleast not in the first post.

 

I think linoleic acids role in sebum and skin is pretty clearly spelled out in the first post and title.

Ok I guess it does.. see comments.. answers.. some more doubts, questions..

-----------------------------------------
-how does it prevent acne from forming, how does it disrupt the acne forming system? (anti-inflammatory/reduced inflammation, antimicrobial, ok..)

-what does it do to existing pimples? (this is not really answered but you can't exactly anti-inflame an existing acne or make the pimple dissapear any faster than normal unaltered process, but i suppose an anti-inflammatory response will help at least like 5% or something).

-how does it affect/alter the sebum in formed acne? (I can't really believe it will do this, I don't think grapeseed oil/safflower is strong enough to normalize existing sebaceous conditions like pustules, clogged pores, active sebum filled pimples, I can't imagine it willl liquidify hard sebum pebbles in pores or melt blackheads, or liquidify waxy pustules.)

-does it help normalize sebum? does it liquidify waxy thick sebum into.. waterry thin sebum? (you mentioned regulating PPAR receptors that will be reducing sebum production. So it somehow alters the sebum controller receptors and boom, less sebum? I dont know.. I don't think it works like that, imo.
Also,how strong is grapeseed oil/safflower oil, how long does it take? does it clog pores? has it been tested, can you point me to the post where there is information on that?)

---------------------------------------
I hope you don't think I'm attacking you, these 2 products (grapeseed and safflower) do not seem much different than some thing like jojoba oil or.. olive oil, tea tree oil which I heard some of the same things about, and their pros did not outweigh the cons to me and they definitely did not reduce sebum production for me atleast.)

Research is one thing, but what if these products only work for weaker acne? Have you found any numbers/percentages in your research? Such as at what rate the sebum was decreased? have humans been tested? this would allow us to guesstimate on how long to use these grapeseed/saff oils..can you point me to some measured results? I also don't think I found any cons listed in your post.. atleast not in the first post.

I'm on my iPad so it's too difficult to respond to everything, especially since it means me retyping things i already wrote. And I'm sorry, but these questions are goofy in light of the information I've provided. Try reading it again.

Those two oils are very high in the linoleic acid that we are deficient in as stated in the third item in the bulleted list. Linoleic acid is what this thread is about. That's why it's in the title.

I can't tell you how long it would take for your skin to improve.

And it affects acne formation in many more ways, as listed in the first post. It's a vital component in the ceramides that make skin strong, less permeable and easily damaged, etc. it increases the lamellar bodies that produce the enzymes that separate cells so they exfoliate freely. It inhibits dht production, and so on. It is a vital component to sebum that functions as it is supposed to.

And all of the studies that I have found have been posted here in this thread. But you are welcome to do some research yourself.

I've been meaning to post the brand of oil I use that I keep referring to as Napa something. It's Napa Valley Naturals. And I don't recall if they were on the list of olive oils studied for quality that we discussed a while back, but the oils from California that were tested were all of high quality as opposed to those from Italy. And they bottle it properly and provide all the info on the label like a good olive oil should. They seem to assume their customers are intelligent and they can't get away with not doing things right. All oils are in dark bottles, the olive oil states the acidity like a quality oil should, the grapeseed oil label states the linoleic acid content, they state the acceptable cooking temperatures, etc.

I've been meaning to post the brand of oil I use that I keep referring to as Napa something. It's Napa Valley Naturals. And I don't recall if they were on the list of olive oils studied for quality that we discussed a while back, but the oils from California that were tested were all of high quality as opposed to those from Italy. And they bottle it properly and provide all the info on the label like a good olive oil should. They seem to assume their customers are intelligent and they can't get away with not doing things right. All oils are in dark bottles, the olive oil states the acidity like a quality oil should, the grapeseed oil label states the linoleic acid content, they state the acceptable cooking temperatures, etc.

 

I'll look for that brand. I thought the oil I got came in a green bottle (green lets less light in than clear, but not as great as brown) but it turns out that was the color of the oil. Haha.

I still really enjoy using this stuff. My skin seems to shed better.

This looks really intresting, I might get some linoleic acid next time I buy vitamins

I know the OP is talking about topical Linoleic acid, but she has also stated that it is most likely not common to be defficient in people's diets. However, as the saying goes ''You are what you eat'' - I do not consume the following:

And lots more...

About FoxO1

From a British dermatology journal by researchers that theorize that FoxO1: http://piel-l.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/articulo-de-acne.pdf

FoxO1 plays a pivotal role in the regulation of androgen receptor (ARs), cell proliferation, cell survival, apoptosis, lipid

and glucose metabolism, oxidative stress and innate immunity all important factors in acne pathogenesis (Fig. 1).

 

Nuclear FoxO1 is predominantly regulated by the activity of the phosphoinositol-3 kinase Akt pathway. Increased growth factor

signalling in puberty (insulin-like growth factor-1, IGF-1) and an insulinotropic Western diet, especially by high-glycaemic load diets (insulin) and increased consumption of insulinotropic dairy products (insulin IGF-1), may play a fundamental role in the reduction of the nuclear content of FoxO1.

 

Oxidative stress is AKA inflammation.

But elsewhere there's this statement:

If a substantial body of evidence accumulates showing that FoxO1 levels are different in patients with acne compared with

patients without acne, then the discussion can be elevated to that of a theory.

 

So as of 2010 when this was written, it hasn't been demonstrated that acne prone patients are any more deficient in FoxO1 than anyone else. However, I've found some info on a relationship with linoleic acid.

This site is a data mining site for 'for previously unknown relations between genes and phenotypes, and improved gene prioritisation catching non-obvious disease causing genes.'

http://biograph.be/project/project And apparently there is a known relationship between the FoxO1 gene and linoleic acid. There's an interactive chart that 'provides putative functional links between FOXO1 gene (context) and trans-10,cis-12-conjugated linoleic acid (target)'

And here's a paper on the 'Role of FoxO1 in FFA-induced oxidative stress in adipocytes' FFA = free fatty acids, but as far as I can tell, they don't say which FFAs.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/293/1/E159.full.pdf

A sauna could be a good thing for us.

Effect of regular sauna on epidermal barrier function and stratum corneum water-holding capacity in vivo in humans: a controlled study.

A more stable epidermal barrier function, an increase in stratum corneum hydration, a faster recovery of both elevated water loss and skin pH after exposure to 2 x 15 min sauna at 80 degrees C could be demonstrated in volunteers with regular sauna. Heart beat rate and ionic concentration in sweat as well as epidermal blood perfusion showed a training effect under regular sauna. A decrease in casual skin sebum content on the skin surface of the forehead was observed in these volunteers.

I wonder if the same results can be obtained with an infrared sauna. I'm not sitting in a hot steamy room.

It's also linked to cancer.

has anyone used any of these oils for acne/ blocked pores and it worked?

i have been using hemp oil as a cleanser, then a small amount applied topically. in the first week i cleared up alot (although blocked pores all remained... and theres alot of them), but now at the end of the second week, i've had a bad breakout (with alot of inflammation and whiteheads increasing). i'm just wondering wether the process of changing sebum viscosity happens over a long period of time, or it just isnt working for me and i should stop? or if i should be doing anything else/ using any other products?

has anyone used any of these oils for acne/ blocked pores and it worked?

i have been using hemp oil as a cleanser, then a small amount applied topically. in the first week i cleared up alot (although blocked pores all remained... and theres alot of them), but now at the end of the second week, i've had a bad breakout (with alot of inflammation and whiteheads increasing). i'm just wondering wether the process of changing sebum viscosity happens over a long period of time, or it just isnt working for me and i should stop? or if i should be doing anything else/ using any other products?

 

In the studies, the researchers believed that the deficiency occurred at the time the sebocyte was formed, which I assume happens all the time, just like with other cells.

Also, my skin was already clear most of the time from diet, but I still got keratosis pilaris which is another hyperproliferation/keratinization condition. And that went away when I switched to a good high linoleic acid oil for a topical. I never had it bad around my elbows/back of arms which is one of the most common places, but now the skin on my elbows feels just as soft and smooth as the rest of my skin. Which I find a little odd. It just seems so normal to have rough elbows.

And linoleic acid inhibits DHT which means it can also help with hirsutism and alopecia. And it has made all the unwanted androgenic hairs a lot finer. I know I've said that before about things like peppermint tea and chasteberry vitex, but this has done more. I never looked at my arms before and said hey where'd all the dark hair go? Or gone days without shaving my legs because the now fine stubble didn't bother me.

I'm a guy, so wouldn't the inhibiting of dht and making hair finer be a bad thing for me? Or would it not be that noticeable on guys?

I'm a guy, so wouldn't the inhibiting of dht and making hair finer be a bad thing for me? Or would it not be that noticeable on guys?

 

It shouldn't do that. Dht is also a factor in male pattern baldness. As well as excess sebum.

Does it inhibit dht in your whole body or just your skin?

Does it inhibit dht in your whole body or just your skin?

 

Your skin/sebum.

still using my grapeseed oil...although i bouht some safflower oil also, neither broke me out but neither has made a difference i actually think my skin texture has changed a bit. when i first started using it as mentioned it was the clearest i have been in a LONG time and my skin was so smooth it was like i couldnt even register the feel of it it was that smooth. but yeah, now my skin texture is back to the way it was and still have annoying acne around the mouth, jaw, chin, forehead. actually worse now than it has been in a long time

gr. hate that it just keeps getting worse. or it goes from awesome to horrible. seriously every month is different. :0

alternativista, whats your opinion on brands? or does it really not matter as long as the linoleic acid is present? and could i please ask how you use it yourself like how you wash your face with it (massage it in? or leave it on or only for a few seconds or? )

alternativista, whats your opinion on brands? or does it really not matter as long as the linoleic acid is present? and could i please ask how you use it yourself like how you wash your face with it (massage it in? or leave it on or only for a few seconds or? )

 

You don't want it to have gone rancid. Which is why you want it from a good source. And I only oil cleanse once in a while and half the time I put it on while doing something else like coloring my hair. It may or may not get massaged. I always plan to, with the hope that it helps with the scars. Daily, I only apply a very small amount to my wet face and/or the few drops of it that are in my aloe vera concoction that I apply all over my face. And I apply quite a lot of it on my legs and hands. And sometimes everywhere else on my body before I dry off after showering.

I'm using hemp seed oil to get rid of a few inflamed spots and many whiteheads. It's been 2 and a half weeks and all I've noticed is a few more whiteheads and many more blackheads. Is it bringing sebum to the surface, or is it just not working for me and making it worse?

I'm using hemp seed oil to get rid of a few inflamed spots and many whiteheads. It's been 2 and a half weeks and all I've noticed is a few more whiteheads and many more blackheads. Is it bringing sebum to the surface, or is it just not working for me and making it worse?

 

I don't know, but it isn't intended to be a spot treatment.

I have an issue with excess sebum that turns hard and clogs my pores, some leading to scarring despite not being touched! I believe it is partially due to my hypertricosis and androgen sensitivity issue. Have you come across any articles relating hormones (no insulin problems/or cystic ovaries) and a deficiency of linoleic acid? I always felt like my skin didn't exfoliate properly. Also how do you feel about Macadamia nut oil or Evening Primrose? I have some available and am willing to see if it works?!

I have an issue with excess sebum that turns hard and clogs my pores, some leading to scarring despite not being touched! I believe it is partially due to my hypertricosis and androgen sensitivity issue. Have you come across any articles relating hormones (no insulin problems/or cystic ovaries) and a deficiency of linoleic acid? I always felt like my skin didn't exfoliate properly. Also how do you feel about Macadamia nut oil or Evening Primrose? I have some available and am willing to see if it works?!

 

I've found and posted here tons of research that finds skin prone to all kinds of problems involving sebum, hyperkeratinization, inflammation and sensitivity/irritation in all kinds of mammals are deficient in linoleic acid. You'll have to look up the fat content in whatever oil you are interested in beyond the ones I've posted here. Evening primrose oil is high in gamma linoleic acid.

I've been trying to find the ingredients in the spot on treatment for dogs and cats. So far, all I've found is that it contains ceramides, free fatty acids, and cholesterol without specifying which. I'm pretty sure it includes some omega 3 in addition to the linoleic acid. So, perhaps Hemp Seed is also a better choice for the omega 3, although more expensive.

I've found info on capsules to be taken orally. They have a couple of formulas. Note how they are using sunflower seed, borage and fish oil.

Allerderm EFA-Caps Guaranteed Analysis (per capsule): Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA) 80 mg, Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) 50 mg, Linoleic Acid (LA) 30 mg, Gamma Linolenic Acid (GLA) 18 mg, Vitamin A 800 IU, Vitamin D 25 IU, Vitamin E 11 IU

Allerderm EFA-Caps Ingredients: Fish oil, borage seed oil and sunflower seed oil (sources of fatty acids), glycerin, purified water, d-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), vitamin A palmitate

Allerderm EFA-Z Plus Guaranteed Analysis (per mL): Linoleic Acid 510 mg, Vitamin A 136 IU, Vitamin E 1.9 IU, Zinc 2.1 mg, Pyridoxine HCI 0.10 mg, Biotin 2.0 g, Inositol 0.38 mg

Allerderm EFA-Z Plus Ingredients: Sunflower seed oil, fish oil and borage seed oil (sources of fatty acids), zinc sulfate, natural and artificial flavoring, alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), silica, propylparaben, inositol, pyridoxine HCl, vitamin A palmitate, methylparaben, biotin

A pretty good paper: Atopy, pyoderma and the skin: Barrier function and beyond....... About dogs and cats, but there's lots of reference to human skin problems and research and products for humans. http://www.avsg.net/...MuseDVMACVD.pdf There's quite a few citations at the bottom that I haven't looked at yet.

This is a very interesting topic. Quick question: Will linoleic acid help reduce oily skin? I'm currently taking Accutane so my acne is under control (at least for now), but I'm terrified that my oily skin will come back. I was also considering using jojoba oil. What do you think?

This is a very interesting topic. Quick question: Will linoleic acid help reduce oily skin? I'm currently taking Accutane so my acne is under control (at least for now), but I'm terrified that my oily skin will come back. I was also considering using jojoba oil. What do you think?

 

It should. it inhibits DHT formation and other factors that stimulates excess sebum. And it should improve the function of your skin and perhaps that will influence the sebum glands to reduce excess production.

Something I had posted in the Good Things thread under Sebum Quality:

Book excerpt saying that there's no free fatty acids in sebum in the glands. But free fatty acids compose about 20% of the skin surface lipids in acne prone skin. And the free fatty acids 'alter the pattern of keratinization in the infundibulum' and damage the follicular wall. I believe they are saying that P acnes and staphylococcus epidermis break down the sebum to form the free fatty acids http://books.google....ization&f=false

However, elsewhere there's info on the beneficial role of free fatty acids on acne:

Essential fatty acids deficiency contributes to sebaceous gland hypertrophy and hyperkeratinization of the ducts. Linolenic acid level in the stratum corneum has been reported to be much higher in normal subjects than that in the comedones. High sebum production and the resulting low level of linoleic acid leads to hyperkeratosis and comedo formation.