I loved reading this post, thank you nowash. I assume your talking about digestive enzymes here. Modern day food as you know is insanely processed (heated, oiled, fried, destoryed e.t.c), one result of this tampering is a loss of enzymes. Enzymes are most prominent in raw foods which can be properly digested.

I think that they definitely help with allergens but maybe indirectly? I mean, D. enzymes break nutrients into smaller molecules for better absorption, otherwise the food would putrefy inside the digestive tract which = toxins=bad! So D.enzymes help regulate and improve digestion, break down food and eliminate/decrease allergens?

BTW, if you have food sensitivities such as to nuts, this is generally due to leaky gut.

Well, the allergens are protein which the enzymes breakdown. Also, lectins are proteins, and the highest lectin containing foods also happen to be the most allergenic foods. Some of the articles on lectins that I posted in the ZAG enzyme thread also mentioned that candida diets tend to avoid most lectins and that is probably what is really helping.

I wanted to mention that "enzymes" are listed as a probable source of gluten for those of you who are gluten-sensitive. You must call the enzyme company and ask if a gluten-containing grain was used, if it was used as a by-product or if it is in one of the ingredients.

"So instead of killing candida in your blood (looool.) maybe enzymes are just breaking down food allergens?"

For me, that appears to be what is happening. I read that protein must be broken down into amino acids before entering the blood stream. If it isn't broken down, water follows protein (literally), pushing its way through tiny capillaries that aren't meant to carry that much water. This is one of the causes of edema around acne sites (mine would fill up with 1-2 marble-size lumps of water!).

It is like my body has an "allergic reaction" to ANY protein not broken down into amino acids. It has also become worse over the years, perhaps starting with meat and then including nuts, lentils, soy, etc. In the end, it was all protein .

Why it only causes breakouts on the face, I do not know. But for me, it is obvious that the protein must be broken down into amino acids if I am to have clear skin.

L. plantarum , Lactobacillus brevis and others are in my probiotic which I add when I make yogurt, which I add when soaking things.

The strain name L. sanfranciscensis is amusing. It must have been originally identified in sourdough starter associated with San Francisco. Like yogurts made with L bulgaricus and S thermophilus, referring to Bulgaria/Eastern Europe and Greece.

You should look into what bacteria are involved in traditional fermented soy products.

Here's a WHO report that I don't have time to read, but might have some useful info specific to anti-nutrients/allergens.

http://www.who.int/foodsafety/publications.../probiotics.pdf

I've been wondering if we are suffering from some kind of complex carbohydrate deficiency.

Nature is full of all kinds of complex sugars, some of which we absorb, some of which we don't and are not meant to. Not everything we consume gets used for nutrition purposes. For instance, D-mannose is a complex sugar that is not digested in the gut. Instead, it gets absorbed into the blood stream within 15 minutes, and is very quickly excreted by the kidneys, mostly within an hour. The interesting thing about this though, is that D-Mannose naturally prevents urinary tract infections. E.Coli are responsible for 90% of UTI's, and D-mannose gums up e.coli bacteria rendering them unable to stick to the cells walls in your bladder. The bacteria and the d-mannose get flushed away when you pee. I have used D-Mannose to clear up a UTI, and it is very effective, my UTI was gone in 3 days.

That's just one example that we know of. Over hundreds of thousands of years of a diet high in a multitude of natural complex sugars performing any number of functions, our body likely came to rely on them. But now suddenly, all of our carbohydrates are refined, complex carbohydrates are missing, and any number of problems could result.

And this is a subject that hasn't been studied in depth. There is an assumption that if we don't digest something, it serves no purpose. But I disagree. A urinary tract infection can lead to a kidney infection, and a kidney infection can kill you. If you are eating something every day that is naturally protecting you from that, you will be more likely to survive and have children, and feed them what you eat, etc. generation after generation who's very survival may in fact hinge on the protective benefits of a complex sugar that we supposedly don't "use" because our digestive system doesn't break it down. I think our digestive system doesn't break it down because it's far more useful as it is than for the small number of calories that may be gained by converting it to glucose.

I've been wondering if we are suffering from some kind of complex carbohydrate deficiency.

 

Nature is full of all kinds of complex sugars, some of which we absorb, some of which we don't and are not meant to. Not everything we consume gets used for nutrition purposes. For instance, D-mannose is a complex sugar that is not digested in the gut. Instead, it gets absorbed into the blood stream within 15 minutes, and is very quickly excreted by the kidneys, mostly within an hour. The interesting thing about this though, is that D-Mannose naturally prevents urinary tract infections. E.Coli are responsible for 90% of UTI's, and D-mannose gums up e.coli bacteria rendering them unable to stick to the cells walls in your bladder. The bacteria and the d-mannose get flushed away when you pee. I have used D-Mannose to clear up a UTI, and it is very effective, my UTI was gone in 3 days.

 

That's just one example that we know of. Over hundreds of thousands of years of a diet high in a multitude of natural complex sugars performing any number of functions, our body likely came to rely on them.

I just posted something along those lines in the ZAG thread. Specific sugars bind up specific lectins. Sugars that probably aren't in white flour, white sugar or white potatoes, which are all the carbs so many people eat and the majority of the carbs most people eat.

I've been wondering if we are suffering from some kind of complex carbohydrate deficiency.

 

Nature is full of all kinds of complex sugars, some of which we absorb, some of which we don't and are not meant to. Not everything we consume gets used for nutrition purposes. For instance, D-mannose is a complex sugar that is not digested in the gut.

Speaking of Mannose, here's a list of 'eight essential sugars' and some food sources.

http://heartspring.net/glyconutrient_sources.html

Mucin, like lectin, is a glycoprotein in the mucous lining of the intestines. When lectins travel through the intestines, they should have mucin to bind to, rather than intestinal cells. But if mucin is missing, lectins will bind to intestinal cells instead.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...t&p=2800233

Article says that gut flora is the answer.

I am becoming more and more suspicious that I have a gluten-sensitivity. Up to 30% of the Caucasian population in some areas of Europe have it.

Such a sensitivity could easily diminish flora and everything else that is related to healthy digestion. So I am cutting out gluten now and now I can concentrate on the flora and digestive problems caused by years of gluten. Do I purchase gut flora in pill form?

Mucin, like lectin, is a glycoprotein in the mucous lining of the intestines. When lectins travel through the intestines, they should have mucin to bind to, rather than intestinal cells. But if mucin is missing, lectins will bind to intestinal cells instead.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...t&p=2800233

 

Article says that gut flora is the answer.

 

Mmm, yeah perhaps, but I don't think flora help make mucin directly. Seems like they're just a buffer since bacteria cell walls are made up of NAG which is what wheat and some other lectins bind to.

Could be why probiotic pills help people a lot, too. They're in a pill, how could anything survive? or survive your gastric acid? To me it makes most sense that they're dead; all it is is just a glorified NAG supplement. Same with any probiotic I bet.

And dotty I can't believe you haven't given up gluten. Geezus.

Wow, so I just tested the spit-fermented rice and it reduced the effects tremendously.

It may have been a fluke, but this is high glycemic white rice that had been grounded down into a mush. Even more, I had about 300 calories worth, which about one serving normally (150 cal) would cause horrible problems. It smelled like horrible cheese, but tasted just like a normal block of rice. I'm going to try fermenting some masa flour and see if it helps.

Hey, great topic!

But I'm a bit lost here... My question is: why do acne-patients lack those enzymes then? Is it hereditary or could it be because of external influences like mercury toxicity for example?

Also, I don't know what to conclude of this, please help:

- are non-refined carbs actually good for you then?

- is candida real?

- what foods should be eaten?

I'm really confused atm

Hey, great topic!

But I'm a bit lost here... My question is: why do acne-patients lack those enzymes then? Is it hereditary or could it be because of external influences like mercury toxicity for example?

Also, I don't know what to conclude of this, please help:

- are non-refined carbs actually good for you then?

- is candida real?

- what foods should be eaten?

 

I'm really confused atm

Lots of people lack enzymes not people with acne. That's why they have allergies, IBS and other digestion problems and all kinds of health issues.

One reason is the lack of them in our diet which tends to be low in raw or not overcooked veggies and fruit with other foods like grains and nuts, dairy, etc heat treated until everything is dead.

Hey, great topic!

But I'm a bit lost here... My question is: why do acne-patients lack those enzymes then? Is it hereditary or could it be because of external influences like mercury toxicity for example?

Also, I don't know what to conclude of this, please help:

- are non-refined carbs actually good for you then?

- is candida real?

- what foods should be eaten?

 

I'm really confused atm

No, they do not lack the enzyme, they are inhibiting the enzyme. They still have it (trypsin), it just can't work since the anti-nutrients are inhibiting it (specifically trypsin inhibitors). You'll want to degrade those anti-nutrients by fermenting. If you've read anything about Weston A. Price's observations, it'll make more sense.

Either that or inhibit the lectins by consuming the sugars that bind them at the same time, which is what alternativista is promoting in her ZAG enzyme thread. Thing is, I'm not sure if your amylase digests those sugars therefore rendering them useless. Perhaps you'll have to cook the lectins and them together.

Either way, my theory was trying to prove why digestive enzymes work (Virastop, etc.).

I'm not so sure about non-refined carbs yet. Most if not all major civilizations milled their grains (Egypt and wheat, Asia and rice, Aztecs and corn), but another half ferment, too. There are even cases where they milled and fermented (Egypt again, India with Idli or Dhokla). I really hate the idea of throwing away nutrients in bran, but there seem to be major benefits to it. IBS sufferers cannot STAND any kind of that fiber, from what I know, but if it were the lectins instead that are the problem, perhaps we could ferment whole grains. Keep the nutrients and inhibit the lectins. Lectins are most concentrated in the germ and bran though. Tell you what, I'll try fermenting brown rice the same way I did white and tell you if I see the same benefits.

IMO, candida is a big ol' bag of B.S. that naturopaths use to get you to buy their products. I don't doubt the anti-candida diets work, though, since they avoid lectins. In retrospect, candida should be GOOD for you since the chitin in all fungi contains NAG which inhibits some lectins. But then I don't understand how sourdough bread is better than yeasted bread, specifically in the insulin index. If both yeast and bacteria contain NAG, shouldn't they both be effective in inhibiting WGA?

If you want to try a diet, go for the low lectin/elimination/failsafe diet. It's similar to the paleo diet, except you avoid nuts and seeds as well. So avoid: dairy, all grains, all nuts, all seeds, all legumes, and the nightshade family. Anything that causes inflammation get rid of. Anything that causes indigestion get rid of. Cook all your foods. I have personally cleared up with a red meat/leafy greens/sweet potato/carrots/salmon diet, but that's expensive as hell so I'm testing foods. I have broken out yet again just from sunflower seeds, white rice, and masa/cornmeal.

But then I don't understand how sourdough bread is better than yeasted bread, specifically in the insulin index. If both yeast and bacteria contain NAG, shouldn't they both be effective in inhibiting WGA?

They probably do, but not in the hour they get to work before being killed in today's bread making methods. Before instant yeast, it used to take at least overnight to raise bread.

Did you see the link to a method for fermenting whole brown rice that Venem posted to the ZAG thread? It's in the first couple of pages.

Hey, great topic!

But I'm a bit lost here... My question is: why do acne-patients lack those enzymes then? Is it hereditary or could it be because of external influences like mercury toxicity for example?

Also, I don't know what to conclude of this, please help:

- are non-refined carbs actually good for you then?

- is candida real?

- what foods should be eaten?

 

I'm really confused atm

 

 

Lots of people lack enzymes not people with acne. That's why they have allergies, IBS and other digestion problems and all kinds of health issues.

 

One reason is the lack of them in our diet which tends to be low in raw or not overcooked veggies and fruit with other foods like grains and nuts, dairy, etc heat treated until everything is dead.

 

Eh? You still think we get enzymes from foods? Only people with rare genetic disorders lack necessary enzymes (except lactose intolerant people). I think we might get some unknown nutrient from raw food, but not enzymes. I think the raw-food diet only works because it avoids lectins. Enzymes could work on the food itself (like after crushing, soaking), but you'd still be able to cook them as they already did their job. I doubt we utilize enzymes from food in our gut.

Any luck on that traditional food combination theory, though? I know that Norse peoples used to ferment shark underground, which one of the sites you linked mentioned shark cartilage as major source of N-acetylglucosamine and N-acetylgalactosamine. I also know Weston Price utilized bone broth (bovine connective tissue) as part of his dental caries regimen. I also know bone broth is said to help heal celiacs faster. Lard (connective tissue?) is traditionally put on bread. Whey contains slialic acid(?) which binds to WGA(?) along with NAG. Also tomatoes and mushrooms. Can't think of anything else.

But then I don't understand how sourdough bread is better than yeasted bread, specifically in the insulin index. If both yeast and bacteria contain NAG, shouldn't they both be effective in inhibiting WGA?

 

They probably do, but not in the hour they get to work before being killed in today's bread making methods. Before instant yeast, it used to take at least overnight to raise bread.

 

Did you see the link to a method for fermenting whole brown rice that Venem posted to the ZAG thread? It's in the first couple of pages.

 

Oh right right, duh. Always wondered why you had to pound down the dough 3 times, too.

And yeah, I saw it. Good stuff.

I still need to read half the things you've guys have linked, as well as try to do my own research. I think it's ridiculous lectins do not get any kind of media attention or acknowledgment from mainstream medical. Seems like the cause of so many problems, and just that one .pdf you linked describes how it all fits together. Didn't realize the lectins attached to so many things, including mucin. That lets certain bacteria get into our body through the gut, which have been implicated in autoimmune diseases, including psoriasis, as well as IBS. Explains why there's an epidemic in diabetes and IBS (55% in Mexico, seriously) in latin american countries. It's not just the bacteria. SweetJade's posts always made it seem like the inflammation itself was causing leaky gut, which I couldn't explain to myself as to why.

It explains SO many things, yet it sounds SOO damn crazy. I saw a short latino chick in class the other day, cute as hell, but she had this little peach fuzz thing going on which reminded me of SweetJade's posts. I thought about telling her about gluten and dairy and I wondered if either it'd be rude as hell or helpful to try to explain things to her. I wonder if I could even explain it at all. If I told her, she'd probably think I was a nut.

Refried beans with lard. Huh, no shit.

Eh? You still think we get enzymes from foods? Only people with rare genetic disorders lack necessary enzymes (except lactose intolerant people). I think we might get some unknown nutrient from raw food, but not enzymes. I think the raw-food diet only works because it avoids lectins. Enzymes could work on the food itself (like after crushing, soaking), but you'd still be able to cook them as they already did their job. I doubt we utilize enzymes from food in our gut.

Yeah, I was only talking about the enzymes at work within the foods, momentarily forgetting about the enzymes our body is supposed to make. I never remember it all at the same time.

I thought about telling her about gluten and dairy and I wondered if either it'd be rude as hell or helpful to try to explain things to her. I wonder if I could even explain it at all. If I told her, she'd probably think I was a nut.

It is really hard to get people to grasp how incredibly bad their diets are. I eat lunch with people who say they want to eat healthier and yet they make the stupidest choices everyday. And then there's my 90-year old grandmother...

You punch the dough down to let all the carbon dioxide out so the yeast doesn't suffocate. But it can collapse on it's own and rise again, which is how that 5-minutes a day method works. You just keep it in the fridge for up to 2 weeks and it rises and collapses on it's own as it gets as fermented as sourdough.

ok, so if I understand correctly, the ONLY way to eat lectins-containing food without damage is to eat it with its specific binding sugar or fermenting it (like kefir instead of milk for example)?

Another thing is: some cultures/people eat TONS of non-fermented lectins-containing food every day and live long healthy lives (what about cultures eating rice for 100s of years (japan), or tomatoes/eggplants (mediterrean for example), or dairy (mountain regions)?).

I don't want to avoid all lectins-containing foods forever since it's just too much. I'm eliminating them anyway through candida diet for the moment, but if there's a way to consume them again, I would very appreciate any suggestion.

And also, what makes you think candida is b.s.?

ok, so if I understand correctly, the ONLY way to eat lectins-containing food without damage is to eat it with its specific binding sugar or fermenting it (like kefir instead of milk for example)?

 

Another thing is: some cultures/people eat TONS of non-fermented lectins-containing food every day and live long healthy lives (what about cultures eating rice for 100s of years (japan), or tomatoes/eggplants (mediterrean for example), or dairy (mountain regions)?).

 

I don't want to avoid all lectins-containing foods forever since it's just too much. I'm eliminating them anyway through candida diet for the moment, but if there's a way to consume them again, I would very appreciate any suggestion.

 

And also, what makes you think candida is b.s.?

With dairy, people probably adapted to it, which can be observed through the amount of lactase they produce. Personally the grains I'm concerned with are the gluten containing ones. Those seem to cause a lot of trouble with most people. Nightshades intrigue me because I know one group avoids them specifically, psoriasis affected people. The explanation for them though is not because of lectins, but because of high arachidonic acid.

The thing that confuses me is why I can't stand normal rice, but can stand fermented rice. How can the Japanese eat it, but I can't? My insulin resistance should be normal, I workout everyday and barely eat over 15000 cals. Which is why we need to look toward traditional food combinations and analyze them to see if there's any kind of sugar to protein combination.

Good thing there's only 8 different sugars that can be bound to in the human body:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycoprotein

And I think candida is B.S. for a lot of things. There's no real scientific acknowledgment for one, but hey, only a select few researchers have tackled the lectin theory. Two, that white coating on your tongue is mucus. Three, spit always seems to fall like that. Four, people who try to sell you the idea NEVERNEVERNEVER suggest to take an anti-fungal medication. Five, you have to avoid carbs as well as take oil of oregano or crushed garlic for it to be effective.

It's just shady to me.

Okay acne_combat, here is something that could be explain why the Japanese can eat white rice.

Wheat Germ Agglutinin appears to bind to two sugars. We already know one; NAG, right? The other is sialic acid, or NANA. Sialic acid is found mostly throughout animal tissue, but also in bacteria and yeast (fermentation?) and some plants. Relevant to us, sialic acid is found in mucin, which is present on most mucosal surfaces. Not sure, but maybe this is how wheat can cause leaky gut.

Rice on the other hand ONLY binds to NAG. So they both can cause problems, but maybe if you're not eating lectins that bind to sialic acid you'll be okay. Maybe that's why the Japanese can eat white rice, they don't have leaky gut. I know that WGA upregulates zonulin which allows things to pass through the gut wall.

What's funny though, I mentioned that lard and bread is a classic combination. Well sialic acid is found in glycoproteins but also in gangliosides which according to wikipedia (this is all according to wiki, so do your own due dilligence) are a subtype of glycolipids, which are carbs attached to fat. So maybe lard contains sialic acid and helps a bit.