lol bro wasn't taking a shot at you at all. Relax I know your a smart guy.

Sorry thought you were talking about the food combining fad. It was like when someone walks in on an hour long conversation and hears the last line and assumes what the entire conversation was about lol. I just read your last post.

I hear that the body can't handle fats/proteins when first waking up. Seems right to me anyway. I wake up. Drink lots or water and tea before I eat a meal, 45 minutes-hour. Then I was reading about how you should give yourself an hour of the same thing before going to sleep, and it helps me. I again drink plenty water and tea the last hour I am awake. My stomach seems very pleased and I sleep well.

So, I was just looking at a list of hypoallergenic foods and was reminded of the puzzling inclusion of black beans as a hypoallergenic food when they are a member of the kidney bean family and kidney beans are amongst the worst source of a damaging lectin, phytohaemagglutinin. (and one of the 3 lectins singled out by Cordain as culprits in acne)

So I found this in a wikipedia article on the common bean aka the kidney bean family of kidney, navy, pinto, cannelini which are white kidneys, and black beans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_bean

The toxic compound phytohaemagglutinin, a lectin, is present in many varieties of common bean but is especially concentrated in red kidney beans. Phytohaemagglutinin can be deactivated by cooking beans at 100 degrees Celsius for ten minutes. However, for dry beans the FDA also recommends an initial soak of at least 5 hours in water; the soaking water should be discarded.[2]

 

The ten minutes at 100 degrees Celsius required to degrade the toxin is much shorter than the hours required to fully cook the beans themselves. However, lower cooking temperatures may have the paradoxical effect of potentiating the toxic effect of haemagglutinin. Beans cooked at 80 degrees Celsius are reported to be up five times as toxic as raw beans.[2] Outbreaks of poisoning have been associated with the use of slow cookers, whose low cooking temperatures may be unable to degrade the toxin.

 

The primary symptoms of phytohaemagglutinin poisoning are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Onset is from 1 to 3 hours after consumption of improperly prepared beans, and symptoms typically resolve within a few hours (without medical intervention).[2] Consumption of as few as four or five raw kidney beans may be sufficient to trigger symptoms.

Posts from Whole Health Source, a good Nutrition blog

Traditional Preparation Methods Improve Grains' Nutritive Value

Real Food VII: Lentils

And a few other good posts appear on this page:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=lentils

Including one on fructose causing insulin resistance. I don't know why that came up in a search for lentil related topics...

I know this has been said a million times on here but I have so much info in my head I forgot. Vista what are the best beans to eat then? I'd like to add beans into my diet, trying to get some different foods in my diet. So the least damaging, least acne prone bean?

I know this has been said a million times on here but I have so much info in my head I forgot. Vista what are the best beans to eat then? I'd like to add beans into my diet, trying to get some different foods in my diet. So the least damaging, least acne prone bean?

I'd say lentils for the low lectin content that's easily dealt with via soaking, cooking and all the easily obtained glyconutrients that bind it up as well as it's protein content. And few people are intolerant to lentils.

Lima beans because they are also fairly safe lectin-wise and combined with a good source of methionine or cysteine are a good protein source.

And maybe black beans, because according to the info I found and mentioned in my recent posts, they aren't high in the problematic kidney bean lectin, but as a member of the kidney bean family, are among the most nutritious after lentils. They are fairly high in methionine, which is the amino acid legumes are limited in, so they are a pretty good source of protein. And supposedly, few people are intolerant of black beans.

What about Garbanzo? Just seen on Whole Foods it is their food of the week. It was funny because I was thinking about getting those. I'll pick up some Lentils for sure. I'll be soaking them for 24 hours and cooking on high heat.

Damn so I guess red kidney beans are a no go then even if soaked? I bought some this past week along with some lentils, would be a shame to not use em.

Just finished reading the entire board. Its all very interesting, but has anyone had any real success acne wise, i.e., has anyone noticed an improvement with their acne? Also, does anyone have any experience with the Lectin Blocking supplements such as D'Adamo or Lectin Block?

Just finished reading the entire board. Its all very interesting, but has anyone had any real success acne wise, i.e., has anyone noticed an improvement with their acne?

Yes, there's all the Paleo followers who consider all grains, legumes and other seeds evil with the exception of some nuts and so avoid them completely.

I can't say because my skin cleared when I began keeping meals low to moderate GL so was clear long before I ever started worrying about anti-nutrients in seeds. But then, I wasn't a huge grain eater and have rarely eaten beans that weren't properly soaked and cooked on any regular basis.

Damn so I guess red kidney beans are a no go then even if soaked? I bought some this past week along with some lentils, would be a shame to not use em.

Not necessarily. Just soak and cook them properly and consume with the glyconutrients that bind the kidney bean lectin. You can soak them for several days, and even until they start to sprout.

Yes, there's all the Paleo followers who consider all grains, legumes and other seeds evil with the exception of some nuts and so avoid them completely.

That's a rather loaded statement... I follow a mostly paleo-type diet, and tend to avoid grains and legumes, but it isn't because I think they're "evil". They aren't some sentient life-form with a sinister plan to destroy mankind. It's more the scientifically objective recognition that said plants have evolved to protect themselves from predation by producing various toxic substances. It is quite intuitive actually. But even more simply, I just plain feel and look a thousand times better when not eating them.

Yes, you can neutralize them via meticulous preparation- and doing so may very well have been necessary to feed growing populations of people, and to make it through periods of food shortage. But that doesn't make them optimal. If you want to include them in your diet for novelty or varieties sake, by all means go ahead. But it still doesn't mean they are the optimal food for the human organism.

I do occasionally eat white rice, as it is a benign neutralized starch. I also eat pastured cream- sour & heavy whipping- and butter. My diet is sort of a blend of Dr. Kurt Harris's PaNu with The Perfect Health Diet, and maybe a little Weston A. Price thrown in there.

More supporting the idea that eating mucin containing foods heals the mucin lining in our stomach and intestines. (I have yet to find a simple clear statement saying that is a fact.)

This is about fenugreek seeds from a site that sells them for sprouting:

They give a strong mucilage, which is emollient and a decoction of 1 OZ. seeds to 1 pint water is used internally in inflamed conditions of the stomach and intestines.

Mucilaginous foods to help build/repair mucin linings in digestive tract (and elsewhere in the body):

Okra,

aloe vera,

cactus like prickly pear,

malabar spinach (easy to grow and very pretty plant),

purslane (a nutritious citrusy flavored weed which may be growing in garden or sidewalk crack near you and good source of Omega 3s and alpha-linoleic acid),

kelp,

Chia/salvia seeds,

Flax seed,

psyllium seed,

fenugreek seed...

If it's slimy or if it's a seed that absorbs water and turns to a gel, it's mucilaginous.

So, Almonds sold in the U.S. are supposed to be pasteurized or worse, sprayed with a toxic chemical due to some minor salmonella outbreak 5 or so years ago.

Heat kills the enzymes in the seeds so soaking shouldn't do anything and the almonds won't sprout. Yet some people sell sprouted almonds at my farmer's market so perhaps there's a way to get unpasteurized almonds?

But I did a search and someone got this response from Trader Joes:

Our raw almonds are pasteurized and they are not heated above 115

degrees and food is still considered live and active if not heated above

120 degrees. It is industry standard that raw almonds be pasteurized and

this has been the case for a number of years now since the problem with

salmonella and raw almonds occurred. If you are after non-pasteurized

almonds, look for our Valencia Almonds (as they are non-California

grown) or head to your local farmer's markets and the like, as all raw

almonds sold packaged in stores are pasteurized if grown in California.

Any item not labeled organic may have had pesticides used on them.

 

I hope this helps!

 

XXXXX

 

Trader Joe's Customer Relations

I just came across this:

Dairy may be potentially more harmful in pasteurized, processed milk because of the reduction of SIgA, an immunoglobulin that binds dangerous lectins , Biol Neonate 1991;59(3):121-5 Davin JC et al The high lectin-binding capacity of human secretory IgA protects nonspecifically mucosae against environmental antigens.),

Prolamins are a group of plant storage proteins having a high proline content and found in the seeds of cereal grains: wheat (gliadin), barley (hordein), rye (secalin), corn (zein) and as a minor protein, avenin in oats. They are characterised by a high glutamine and proline content and are generally soluble only in strong alcohol solutions.

Grain - Prolamine - % of Total protein

Wheat - Gliadin - 69%

Barley - Hordein - 50%

Rye - Secalinin - 30-50%

Corn- Zien - 55%

Millet - Panicin - 40%

Sorgum - Kafirin - 52%

Oats - Avenim - 16%

Rice - Orzenin - 5%

from Dr. Osborne's slide show What Is Gluten Sensitivity? from the Gluten Free Society. The video is found here: http://www.glutenfreesociety.org/video-tut...ity-what-is-it/

More on lectins from Cordain's Dietary Cure for Acne

Because of their specific molecular structure, most lectins are extremely

resistant to the digestive processes that normally degrade protein molecules in

the gut. Both grain and legume lectins are also not completely broken down by

cooking. Consequently, lectins arrive fully intact in the small intestine where

absorption of nutrients occurs. Most large protein molecules simply cannot get

past the intestinal cell wall barrier and into the bloodstream, and if they do,

certain elements in the immune system bind them and prevent them from getting

into the bloodstream. So for decades, most scientists and nutrition experts

simply assumed that when you ate small amounts of lectins in common foods

such as wheat, beans and peanuts, the lectins passed out of the body in the

feces and never made it into the bloodstream. That is, until someone actually got

around to feeding dietary lectins to animals and humans to see what would

happen.

Animal studies from Dr. Arpad PustzaiAaas laboratory at the Rowett

Research Institute in Scotland have clearly shown that wheat (WGA) and kidney

bean (PHA) lectins show up in the bloodstreams of laboratory animals shortly

after they are consumed. Once in the bodies of these lab animals, these lectins

are not harmless, but interact with and ultimately disturb many tissues and

organs.

ZAG and how normal desquamation happens, and what stops it.

I'm hoping to get to the part in Cordain's book/theory where Lectins inhibit the zag enzyme. I'm pasting things here and then going back and summarizing/rewriting.

This is all found around pages 59-62 or so of the Dietary Cure for Acne.

Desmosomes - parts of cells that bind cells to each other.

corneocytes stick together is because desmosomes fail to disintegrate properly and on time.

During normal desquamation, 2 enzymes derived from underlying keratinocytes

and from corneocyte structures, called lamellar bodies, dissolve desmosomes.

First, carbohydrate dissolving enzymes, called glycosidases, and then protein

dissolving enzymes, called proteases, must be applied, (in that order). If one of these enzymes gets impaired then the corneocyte desmosomes will not disintegrate properly, and the corneocytes will stick together and block the follicle.

(There have been some posts on the use of protease improving acne including earlier in this thread)

The lectins (WGA, PNA and SBA) get into keratinocytes and corneocyte lamellar bodies and bind one of the glycosidase enzymes, known as zinc alpha (2) glycoprotein or ZAG.

(So in addition to binding with EGF receptors they also bind up the ZAG enzyme after the EGF receptors let them into the bloodstream and throughout the body.???)

Then he says 'They not only encourage cellular events which block the follicle by impairing ZAG, but they promote proliferation of basal keratinocytes.'

(Which doesn't seem quite right to me. Wheat and other grains promote proliferation by usually being consumed in a high glycemic food, but that doesn't apply to soy, peanuts and kidney beans unless they are used to make some high GI processed food. Phytates in seeds bind up many minerals making them unavailable, and that would include zinc, the Z in ZAG, so that's another factor. And of course, all seeds are somewhat to very inflammatory, which is another reason why you eat them with anti-inflammatory foods.)

'ZAG is a multi purpose enzyme. It not only helps to dissolve the proteins

that are found in corneocyte desmosomes, but it also slows keratinocyte

proliferation, which is a good thing' pp 62

hmm.

Then he goes on to WGA and Zinc metabolism

QUOTE

Zinc Metabolism and Lectins

One further note on dietary lectins a the lectin from whole wheat (WGA) is

potentially damaging to acne patients because it also impairs zinc metabolism.

Once the WGA from whole wheat finds its way into cells via the EGF receptor as

I have previously outlined, it directly blocks entry of cellular hormones into the

nucleus of the cell. This spells disaster for zinc metabolism, as one of the most

important zinc based proteins, metallothionein, is directly blocked entry into the

nucleus by WGA. Zinc deficiency or inactivation of metallothionein has far

reaching health effects including the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines by

white blood cells. As an acne patient, your physician or dermatologist may

frequently prescribe zinc supplementation to you

Note that once again, this is only about wheat and WGA, not all grains or other legumes. And calcium also impairs zinc absorption per Cordain.

Ok, but I still haven't found where he gets that lectins bind up ZAG, which was my goal today. I did find this paper http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/EvolutionPale...20in%20acne.pdf which has the following paragraph with references citied within the text, which would imply that one of those studies demonstrates that lectins bind up ZAG.

QUOTE

These corneocytes block the pilosebaceous orifice because

they are overly adherent to one another and do not separate

normally during desquamation.18 Their increased cell-to-cell

cohesion is caused by intact desmosomes33-38 that normally

would weaken and disintegrate via apoptosis during desquamation.

Hence, an impairment of, or a delay in, the normal

apoptotic process in corneocytes represents a fundamental

mechanism underlying the formation of the microcomedo,

the precursor lesion of acne. Additionally, increased proliferation

of basal keratinocytes (which ultimately may become

overly cohesive corneocytes) fuels the obstruction of the pilosebaceous

duct.39

But if so, it doesn't show in the title or the abstract which is all I have access to. And I don't find anywhere else on the interwebs where anyone says this except where they are citing Cordain. They may bind up some zinc, which would lessen the amount of ZAG your body needs to work with.

Here are the sources cited above:

QUOTE

32. Goulden V, McGeown CH, Cunliffe WJ: The familial risk of adult acne: a comparison

between first-degree relatives of affected and unaffected individuals. Br J Dermatol 141:297-300,

1999

33. Toyoda M, Morohashi M: Pathogenesis of acne. Med Electron Microsc 34:29-40, 2001

34. Oh CW, Myung KB: An ultra structural study of the retention hyperkeratosis of

experimentally induced comedones in rabbits: the effects of three comedolytics. J Dermatol

23:169-80, 1996

35. Maeda T: An electron microscopic study of experimentally-induced comedo and effects of

vitamin A acid on comedo formation. J Dermatol 18:397-407, 1991

36. Zelickson AS, Strauss JS, Mottaz J: Ultra structural changes in open comedones

following treatment of cystic acne with isotretinoin. Am J Dermatopathol 7:241-4,1985.

37. Woo-Sam PC: The effect of vitamin A acid on experimentally induced comedones: an

electron microscope study. Br J Dermatol 100:267-76, 1979

38. Woo-Sam PC: Cohesion of horny cells during comedo formation. An electron microscope

study. Br J Dermatol 97:609-15, 1977

39. Knaggs HE, Holland DB, Morris C, et al: Quantification of cellular proliferation in acne

using the monoclonal antibody Ki-67. J Invest Dermatol 102:89-92, 1994

40. Jenkins DJ, Wolever TM, Taylor RH, et al: Glycemic index of foods: a physiological basis

for carbohydrate exchange. Am J Clin Nutr 34:362-6, 1981

I was going to quit now, but a search on 'PHA and black beans' found lots of interesting looking stuff:

http://www.owenfoundation.com/Health_Scien...s_in_Foods.html - has info on various lectins and blood type, not just about humans. Earlier in this thread we found lectin blocking supplements that were different for each blood type. don't know if blood type really matter. There's also info on what binds the lectin. And the list includes a lot of foods besides seeds/grains. I noticed lobster as I scrolled down.

The Failsafe Diet Explained

An introduction to the failsafe diet, with diet charts

Essential Sugars and Plant Lectins

http://failsafediet.wordpress.com/about-fo...-plant-lectins/

And this paper on dry beans with anti-nutrient info beginning on page 15

http://www.forumonpublicpolicy.com/archive06/uebersax.pdf

Where it says:

QUOTE

soaking and cooking beans at high pH was very effective, significantly reducing the activity of PHA and also reducing the time required to reach a palatable texture. Soaking and cooking dry beans at high pH also caused significant changes in the saline soluble protein extract as determined by gel electrophoresis. It was concluded that high pH cooking treatment could be useful in improving nutritional quality of dry beans.

Phytic acid

And they were talking about kidney and black beans.

Then they went on to discuss the resistant starch and low glycemic impact of dry beans and studies on how it improves blood sugar stability of diabetics and hypoglycemics. They say that the canning process increases the glycemic impact. As compared to dry beans cooked as recommended above, I assume.

Mercola article today saying that like wheat, Potato, Tomato, Barley, Rye, Rice all contain chitin-binding lectins that are as damaging as wheat. Remember that glucosamine supplements come from the chitinous shells of shell fish.

The article also says many sprouted grains have even higher amounts of lectins as well as certain other toxins. He names wheat, maize and rye and I think somewhere in there's corn.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles...our-health.aspx

When you say cook in high pH, what would you add to the water to make it high pH?

When you say cook in high pH, what would you add to the water to make it high pH?

Whey, lemon juice or vinegar. But just a tablespoon or so. Acid actually toughens the beans, supposedly. That's one of the reasons you'll see a lot of recommendations about adding baking soda. But that's about texture and maybe flatulence, not about phytates and lectins.

I wondered about soaking in alkaline water since Mesoamericans soaked corn in an alkaline solution, but most plants like a slightly acidic soil with some liking a very acidic soil. So it seems to me that the seed wants acid.

http://www.rebuild-from-depression.com/sim...ange/beans.html

This has a soaking time chart. http://www.wonderfulingredients.com/soaking-grains-and-beans But for some reason, they want you to soak quinoa for 12 hours, the same length you soak much bigger tougher slower cooking beans. I don't know why when I've found quinoa starts to sprout in a couple of hours.

More on beans, the kidney bean issue and slow cookers.

First, My brother and sister each tell me their slow cookers reach the boiling point when set on high and they always use them to cook dried beans. But they have new digital models.

Second, here's some explanation about the harmful lectins in red kidney beans, saying white kidney beans have a small percentage of the amount of lectins of red, and broad beans even lower percentage.

http://www.foodreference.com/html/artredki...npoisoning.html

Red Kidney Bean Poisoning is an illness caused by a toxic agent, Phytohaemagglutnin (Kidney Bean Lectin). This toxic agent is found in many species of beans, but it is in highest concentration in red kidney beans (Phaseolus vulgaris). The unit of toxin measure is the hemagglutinating unit (hau). Raw kidney beans contain from 20,000 to 70,000 hau, while fully cooked beans contain from 200 to 400 hau. White kidney beans, another variety of Phaseolus vulgaris, contain about one-third the amount of toxin as the red variety; broad beans (Vicia faba) contain 5 to 10% the amount that red kidney beans contain.

Good site on preparing foods in the best ways, including soaking and fermenting:

http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/2011/02/...-which-is-best/

Site with online courses in such things including how to make sourdough into just about anything:

http://gnowfglins.com/ecourse/ Some kind of paid membership required.

And yogurt from oats instructions: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...t&p=3127724

So, I don't claim to understand what this means, especially since I can only read the abstract, but it seems to be some evidence that certain lectins affect cell proliferation.

Binding of erythroagglutinating phytohemagglutinin lectin from Phaseolus vulgaris to the epidermal growth factor receptor inhibits receptor function in the human glioma cell line, U373 MG.

 

Rebbaa A, Yamamoto H, Moskal JR, Bremer EG.

 

Source

Chicago Institute of Neurosurgery and Neuroresearch, Illinois, USA.

 

 

Abstract

 

Little is known about the role of the N-linked oligosaccharides in the function of the epidermal growth factor (EGF) receptor (EGF-R). In a human glioma cell line, U373 MG, EGF-Rs contain the bisecting N-linked oligosaccharide sequence recognized by erythroagglutinating phytohemagglutinin lectin from Phaseolus vulgaris (E-PHA). Incubation of E-PHA with cultured U373 MG cells results in inhibition of EGF binding to its receptor and consequently inhibition of EGF-induced autophosphorylation of the receptor. Consistent with the inhibitory effects on the EGF-R, phenotypic events that depend on EGF-R signaling, such as cell spreading and proliferation, were also found to be modified. The effect of this lectin seems to be specific because leukoagglutinating phytohemagglutinin lectin from P. vulgaris (L-PHA), an isolectin of E-PHA, had no effect on EGF-R activity or the biological functions of these cells even though L-PHA was able to bind to the EGF-R. These findings suggest the presence of an important bisecting N-linked oligosaccharide structure in close proximity to the EGF binding site on the receptor. Furthermore, these results suggest the possibility that E-PHA lectin binding may provide an additional approach to blocking EGF-dependent glioma cell growth.