First off, i am sorry that you are going through this but know that you are not alone. Unfortunately, some people on this site come across as VERY preachy and do place the blame on the individual but many more don't and merely offer suggestions. I always recommend diet as a starting point as it is usually teh easiest thing to change but it may not work for everyone - it didn't for me. Don't get discouraged though - i honestly believe that there is a solution for everyone. It's been almost 2 years since my acne returned and i am still searching (i've had acne since the age of 14 on and off and now i'm almost 30).

Don't give up

First off, i am sorry that you are going through this but know that you are not alone. Unfortunately, some people on this site come across as VERY preachy and do place the blame on the individual but many more don't and merely offer suggestions. I always recommend diet as a starting point as it is usually teh easiest thing to change but it may not work for everyone - it didn't for me. Don't get discouraged though - i honestly believe that there is a solution for everyone. It's been almost 2 years since my acne returned and i am still searching (i've had acne since the age of 14 on and off and now i'm almost 30).

Don't give up

Yes, thank you. I first posted here under a different name back in 2010 telling a longer more drawn out version of my story and the things I've tried and I got 12-15 replies of people telling me "I should be doing this, shouldn't be eating that" ect. When I replied back to these people telling them I was eating a vegan diet (and I was at the time) I got replies back like "you're not doing it properly, just because your diet is vegan doesn't make it healthy, maybe you haven't been doing it long enough" ect... it just frustrated the hell out of me.

They kept trying to dig and dig (And this applies to people in the real world too) into my eating habits and lifestyle looking for "some" flaw to explain why I had acne and how it was my fault somehow.

We cannot read your mind.

hi, i know how you feel, ive only ever had a problem with acne/big sore red cyst like pimples around my jawline.

when i was pregnant my skin cleared up, HOWEVER i was eating like a pig, whatever i wanted, fat and sugar being the main food groups, i gained 30kg and my skin was the best ive ever seen...

now that i am back to my pre-baby weight a year later my skin around my chin and jaw is the worst its ever been, im eating much much healthier so i totally agree with you IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DIET(in our case).

im sick of the doctor telling me i should change my diet and my MOTHER telling me to stop eating fat and sugar, at this rate ill be eating nothing but leaves to prove my point, ive been on the pill with minimal improvement in the past

im just wondering, new to this site and still learning how to use it lol, have you been on the pill at all? any antibiotics for acne?

now that im 25 im really worried im going to be one of these people that never grow out of acne, its so disheartening.

hi, i know how you feel, ive only ever had a problem with acne/big sore red cyst like pimples around my jawline.

when i was pregnant my skin cleared up, HOWEVER i was eating like a pig, whatever i wanted, fat and sugar being the main food groups, i gained 30kg and my skin was the best ive ever seen...

now that i am back to my pre-baby weight a year later my skin around my chin and jaw is the worst its ever been, im eating much much healthier so i totally agree with you IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DIET(in our case).

im sick of the doctor telling me i should change my diet and my MOTHER telling me to stop eating fat and sugar, at this rate ill be eating nothing but leaves to prove my point, ive been on the pill with minimal improvement in the past

im just wondering, new to this site and still learning how to use it lol, have you been on the pill at all? any antibiotics for acne?

now that im 25 im really worried im going to be one of these people that never grow out of acne, its so disheartening.

I'm 27 now and have had acne for sixteen years straight, and yes sadly I don't think I'll be growing out of it anytime soon either.

I have epilepsy as well so the "Pill" was something that was not recommended due to the risk of stroke. I could never tolerate antibiotics or accutane, my system is just too sensitive.

It seems the finger of blame keeps getting pointed in your direction for having acne on here

This is an acne forum. Yes, people will ask you questions about yourself. Why? They're trying to help....not ostracize you for having acne. Some diets work for acne, some water does inflame acne, stress can effect acne. People are here to suggest different changes to get results. I don't understand your disgust at all really. I've been a member here for four years, and I've never really experienced any of this.

agreed, we are all here for the same reason, im sure there are some no lifers on here just for their entertainment... but the bulk of us im sure we all just want the same thing!

stress sucks!!!

It seems the finger of blame keeps getting pointed in your direction for having acne on here

This is an acne forum. Yes, people will ask you questions about yourself. Why? They're trying to help....not ostracize you for having acne. Some diets work for acne, some water does inflame acne, stress can effect acne. People are here to suggest different changes to get results. I don't understand your disgust at all really. I've been a member here for four years, and I've never really experienced any of this.

Sigh... you just don't get it.

I have been blamed my entire life for an affliction I can't control. I was born predisposed to acne as my father had acne conglobata and I inherited that faulty gene from him resulting in severe cystic acne beginning at age 11.

I have been ostracized my entire life for this condition, I was never able to have friends, never dated, bullied constantly resulting in dropping out of school at fourteen. You have honestly no clue how much it hurts for me to hear or read in the real world or online "Just change you diet, you must eat like crap".

It seems the finger of blame keeps getting pointed in your direction for having acne on here

This is an acne forum. Yes, people will ask you questions about yourself. Why? They're trying to help....not ostracize you for having acne. Some diets work for acne, some water does inflame acne, stress can effect acne. People are here to suggest different changes to get results. I don't understand your disgust at all really. I've been a member here for four years, and I've never really experienced any of this.

Sigh... you just don't get it.

I have been blamed my entire life for an affliction I can't control. I was born predisposed to acne as my father had acne conglobata and I inherited that faulty gene from him resulting in severe cystic acne beginning at age 11.

I have been ostracized my entire life for this condition, I was never able to have friends, never dated, bullied constantly resulting in dropping out of school at fourteen. You have honestly no clue how much it hurts for me to hear or read in the real world or online "Just change you diet, you must eat like crap".

You are not the only one who went through that. My past is similar to yours.

I completely understand. I cried yesterday because of (stupid me) going into the diet/holistic section and letting someone in there piss me off. It's terrible triggering for eating disorder issues and I completely understand how you ended up with anorexia, because the same thing basically happened to me. I just had to re-commit to staying away from the diet section because of how sick it makes me to see people talking about how "all you have to do is give up [whatever food] and your acne will be gone, and if you're acne isn't gone, you aren't doing something right].

The worst part is, I used to be one of those people. In fact I'll go ahead and apologize to you, because if you were here a few years ago, I was probably one of the ones who was preaching to you about diet. For a time, I thought I had cured my acne with diet and I was on a mighty high horse about it. I preached at everyone and was a real bitch sometimes. Then a year or so ago, my severe acne came back--despite my ultra pure diet. I of course, being so brainwashed, thought it HAD to be something I was eating. From there, the eating disorder just got worse and worse--and the acne stayed the same.

It was one of the more humbling experiences of my life, but it also led me to face my eating disorder and realize how fucked up I was. I've been working on recovery for the past few months and it's going well.

I say just avoid the diet forum. There is some good info in there, but it's all mixed up with so much conflicting info that it's difficult to know where to begin. If you're at all easily triggered, avoid that area! Other parts of the forum tend to be way nicer, like this forum, the makeup forum and any of the skin-care forums.

I don't know what it is about diet, but it's really complex and wound up with our emotions. It tends to make people nasty.

I completely understand. I cried yesterday because of (stupid me) going into the diet/holistic section and letting someone in there piss me off. It's terrible triggering for eating disorder issues and I completely understand how you ended up with anorexia, because the same thing basically happened to me. I just had to re-commit to staying away from the diet section because of how sick it makes me to see people talking about how "all you have to do is give up [whatever food] and your acne will be gone, and if you're acne isn't gone, you aren't doing something right].

The worst part is, I used to be one of those people. In fact I'll go ahead and apologize to you, because if you were here a few years ago, I was probably one of the ones who was preaching to you about diet. For a time, I thought I had cured my acne with diet and I was on a mighty high horse about it. I preached at everyone and was a real bitch sometimes. Then a year or so ago, my severe acne came back--despite my ultra pure diet. I of course, being so brainwashed, thought it HAD to be something I was eating. From there, the eating disorder just got worse and worse--and the acne stayed the same.

It was one of the more humbling experiences of my life, but it also led me to face my eating disorder and realize how fucked up I was. I've been working on recovery for the past few months and it's going well.

I say just avoid the diet forum. There is some good info in there, but it's all mixed up with so much conflicting info that it's difficult to know where to begin. If you're at all easily triggered, avoid that area! Other parts of the forum tend to be way nicer, like this forum, the makeup forum and any of the skin-care forums.

I don't know what it is about diet, but it's really complex and wound up with our emotions. It tends to make people nasty.

I agree - I shouldn't have gone over to the hollistic forum because like you, I know it's a trigger. Not only does it emotionally upset me but it also instills me with fear over the possibility that I still might be doing something wrong which makes me want to starve myself.

I have walked in your shoes exactly. I had a remission from acne back in 2003 when I was 17 following a raw food diet - I honestly, honestly thought I had "cured" myself and and beat the disease because of my ultra healthy diet but then five months later it came back (worse than ever before) and I was eating the same. This lead me to become completely anorexic. It took me more than three years to get my mind back from anorexia, It had warped my mind.

It's crazy how many of us this has happened to. The really shitty thing about the diet forums is that the few people who have had success tend to stick around and preach and talk and talk about diet, yet those of us who diet has failed tend to get sick of going in there. So new people who go there read everything that the preachers say (plus other "success" stories that say things like "I stopped drinking kool aid and my extreme cystic acne vanished overnight!") and get SO much false hope. It's really sad. I wish they would let someone like me write a big fat fucking disclaimer and stick it to the top of the page.

Caution! Reading and obsessing over this material may cause an eating disorder!

Caution! Acne is complex and can't usually be cured by diet alone! (despite what some say)

Caution! Once you begin cutting foods out of your diet it can be VERY difficult to stop!

I would be very interested in seeing a statistic to describe how many people, exactly, were cure by diet alone and STAYED cured. Key word: stayed. SOOOO many people like me and you were cured for a very short time by diet, or diet and a combination of medicine. Yet many of those people seem to have their acne return. I suspect it's probably the placebo effect mixed with a temporary "boost" to the system by shocking it with healthy foods. This only seems to work when people are moving from a VERY bad diet to a relatively clean one. But then it's like your body gets used to the new clean diet, acne returns, and there is nowhere else to go from there, except into anorexia or back to a normal diet. (and still have acne either way)

I know there is no possible way to get the statistics, but I imagine the number of people forever cured by diet alone would be miniscule compared to the number of us who are suffering with this overall.

It's crazy how many of us this has happened to. The really shitty thing about the diet forums is that the few people who have had success tend to stick around and preach and talk and talk about diet, yet those of us who diet has failed tend to get sick of going in there. So new people who go there read everything that the preachers say (plus other "success" stories that say things like "I stopped drinking kool aid and my extreme cystic acne vanished overnight!") and get SO much false hope. It's really sad. I wish they would let someone like me write a big fat fucking disclaimer and stick it to the top of the page.

Caution! Reading and obsessing over this material may cause an eating disorder!

Caution! Acne is complex and can't usually be cured by diet alone! (despite what some say)

Caution! Once you begin cutting foods out of your diet it can be VERY difficult to stop!

I would be very interested in seeing a statistic to describe how many people, exactly, were cure by diet alone and STAYED cured. Key word: stayed. SOOOO many people like me and you were cured for a very short time by diet, or diet and a combination of medicine. Yet many of those people seem to have their acne return. I suspect it's probably the placebo effect mixed with a temporary "boost" to the system by shocking it with healthy foods. This only seems to work when people are moving from a VERY bad diet to a relatively clean one. But then it's like your body gets used to the new clean diet, acne returns, and there is nowhere else to go from there, except into anorexia or back to a normal diet. (and still have acne either way)

I know there is no possible way to get the statistics, but I imagine the number of people forever cured by diet alone would be miniscule compared to the number of us who are suffering with this overall.

Yes, I REALLY think the hollistic/alternate medicine board needs some type of a disclaimer. For example: Acne.org does not endorse these diets or claims these are not medically substantiated facts, read at your own discretion ect.

I feel like this board can and will endorse eating disorders in vulnerable individuals that are desperate for clear skin. I'm not villifying the people that write their opinions on these boards - their opinions are based upon their own experience and that's fine, I'm sure they don't intentionally try to be detrimental to anyone.

I can't stand some of their blanket statements though, like "the western diet is the cause of acne" - Hello? not everyone lives in America or the West, yet many people all over the world experience acne regardless who do not consume the western diet.

Hello,

I posted my success story in the nutrition/holistic section today.

It is important to know that there are many causes of acne, and just because something works for someone does not necessarily mean it will work for you.

I also ate a clean diet, but still had acne.

It wasn't until I pin pointed the "healthy foods" that I was reacting to.

Just know that most people here just want to share what is working for them, and offer advice. It is your choice to take it or leave it.

The diet issue makes me a bit uneasy for the reasons explained here. It is a never-ending pit of self-blame, really. If you have tried to correct your diet and it hasn't worked, then you didn't try hard enough. If your acne never clears, it's because you're an undisciplined slob.

Many people apply the your-own-doing attitude to a great many other medical conditions too. I have a feeling that it comes down to a need for control. Lots of people feel utterly terrified at the idea that their health is not entirely within their control. It's an understandable fear, but it can lead to blame-centred preaching that just ends up making people feel totally inadequate.

I woke up this morning to an email from a friend that I thought was absolutely relevant to this conversation. The friend is studying to be a registered dietician. She used to be a lot like how I used to be, not trusting mainstream ideas, always reading stuff about diet/health on the internet. She is healthy, but her husband has a lot of health problems similar to mine so she was always looking for an answer. Eventually she decided to go back to school and was amazed at all the stuff she learned and how much of what she thought she knew about diet before was bullshit.

Anyway, today she was telling me how for school, one assignment was to go on the net and find 20 different health/diet related forum threads and then check them for accuracy and the spreading of "harmful information" (things like people advising others to give up certain foods with no scientific data to back it up). She said she found so many threads that were giving horrible and potentially dangerous diet advice that it was difficult to even narrow it down to the 20 worst.

Not only that, but she's also studying the FODMAPS diet thing, and she said never, ever to read anything about it online because it's basically complete and total bull, it isn't something where you can just go get a list of foods to avoid and apply it to everyone, it's something you have to work with a doctor on, because each individual who has the FODMAP sensitivity could need a completely different diet from someone else. So all those lists that people are using to do the FODMAP diet right now (a lot of people in the holistic section are doing this, it's like the newest "thing" after Paleo) could just be something some random made up off the top of their head... it really makes me feel sad for all the people who have their hopes on this and are following some random list to the T and making their life around it.

Ugh... you know? It's just so upsetting. I'm glad we escaped this mentality but I feel worried for other acne sufferers who are still falling for this stuff.

The diet issue makes me a bit uneasy for the reasons explained here. It is a never-ending pit of self-blame, really. If you have tried to correct your diet and it hasn't worked, then you didn't try hard enough. If your acne never clears, it's because you're an undisciplined slob.

Many people apply the your-own-doing attitude to a great many other medical conditions too. I have a feeling that it comes down to a need for control. Lots of people feel utterly terrified at the idea that their health is not entirely within their control. It's an understandable fear, but it can lead to blame-centred preaching that just ends up making people feel totally inadequate.

Yes absolutely! it's a need for control. People like to pretend they're entirely 100% in control of their own destiny which unfortunately is not the case. We are powerless over where our own health ends up realistically - we can influence it for the better by eating a healthy diet and doing what we can but we could still get that cancer diagnosis a year from now despite our best efforts.

Life is random. And "cures" will always be elusive.

Reading this made me feel so sad that acne could lead to eating disorders, I'd never even thought about that. My diet is crap, I know it is, I accept it and I should change it, but I just can't do it (I have a phobia of most fruits and veg- it's the textures, but that's another issue), so maybe my acne is not being helped by that, but I doubt it. Alot of people still believe bad diet causes acne, chocolate, dairy etc, I guess maybe it does make it worse in some people, it's hard to know isn't it? Everything about acne is so patient specific. I do think all these radical diets are a load of bull though, if you've going to change your diet, just eat a balanced diet and be healthy, don't cut whole food groups out, acne isn't worth an eating disorder. I've never been on the diet parts of the forums, I think I'd just laugh at it to be honest! I still think my acne (and probably most people's imo) is hormone related, it started exactly the same time as puberty and hasn't left 12 years later. I'm sorry you've had such a bad time of it, actually the first thing someone asked me on here was if I had tried changing my diet - I figured it would be though.

Reading this made me feel so sad that acne could lead to eating disorders, I'd never even thought about that. My diet is crap, I know it is, I accept it and I should change it, but I just can't do it (I have a phobia of most fruits and veg- it's the textures, but that's another issue), so maybe my acne is not being helped by that, but I doubt it. Alot of people still believe bad diet causes acne, chocolate, dairy etc, I guess maybe it does make it worse in some people, it's hard to know isn't it? Everything about acne is so patient specific. I do think all these radical diets are a load of bull though, if you've going to change your diet, just eat a balanced diet and be healthy, don't cut whole food groups out, acne isn't worth an eating disorder. I've never been on the diet parts of the forums, I think I'd just laugh at it to be honest! I still think my acne (and probably most people's imo) is hormone related, it started exactly the same time as puberty and hasn't left 12 years later. I'm sorry you've had such a bad time of it, actually the first thing someone asked me on here was if I had tried changing my diet - I figured it would be though.

It makes me so sad too that the popular belief these days more than ever is that food and acne is entirely related and that if the person just cut out "Dairy" they'll be totally acne free. This really isn't true - especially for those of us with severe acne that comes up regardles of consuming dairy ect.

My acne has no trigger, it just comes daily as a result of genetics and the abnormal way my sebaceous glands get overstimulated by hormones erronously making excess sebum. I feel like a lot of people are in the same boat too; I have no power over this disease and I accept that now which is kind of a relief because before I was holding my self responsible and that caused me a tremendous amount of self hatred.

I woke up this morning to an email from a friend that I thought was absolutely relevant to this conversation. The friend is studying to be a registered dietician. She used to be a lot like how I used to be, not trusting mainstream ideas, always reading stuff about diet/health on the internet. She is healthy, but her husband has a lot of health problems similar to mine so she was always looking for an answer. Eventually she decided to go back to school and was amazed at all the stuff she learned and how much of what she thought she knew about diet before was bullshit.

Anyway, today she was telling me how for school, one assignment was to go on the net and find 20 different health/diet related forum threads and then check them for accuracy and the spreading of "harmful information" (things like people advising others to give up certain foods with no scientific data to back it up). She said she found so many threads that were giving horrible and potentially dangerous diet advice that it was difficult to even narrow it down to the 20 worst.

Not only that, but she's also studying the FODMAPS diet thing, and she said never, ever to read anything about it online because it's basically complete and total bull, it isn't something where you can just go get a list of foods to avoid and apply it to everyone, it's something you have to work with a doctor on, because each individual who has the FODMAP sensitivity could need a completely different diet from someone else. So all those lists that people are using to do the FODMAP diet right now (a lot of people in the holistic section are doing this, it's like the newest "thing" after Paleo) could just be something some random made up off the top of their head... it really makes me feel sad for all the people who have their hopes on this and are following some random list to the T and making their life around it.

Ugh... you know? It's just so upsetting. I'm glad we escaped this mentality but I feel worried for other acne sufferers who are still falling for this stuff.

I worry about other young girls with acne falling into a severe eating disorder too due to these people and their claims. More than half of the people that frequent acne.org are in their teens - and more than half of them proabably believe they get acne because of something they eat or do wrong and would be willing to try anything. What a shame.

There isn't a single cause for acne. It's super hard to diagnose, and super hard to treat. If only it were as simple as hormones=acne, we would have cured it by now. Plenty of hormonal treatments do exist. Many people have both treated and cured their acne using diet as a tool. Many have also used accutane, antibiotics, hormonal treatments like birth control or herbs, and topicals. It's hard to generalize when it comes to acne.

One has only to look so far as observation to understand that acne isn't something that 'just happens'. Many groups of people all around the world do not suffer from acne at all. Often, immigrants moving from one area to another will gain or lose their acne. Environment has much to do with this malady, and I don't doubt that some sort of diet can (almost) completely prevent it from happening. However, I do doubt that a diet can always cure acne.

Some people believe that they can only believe accepted science. Being a scientist, I would advise others not to do so. Science is wrong many times before it is right. Look at heart disease. We thought it was caused by eating too many eggs, because eggs have cholesterol in them, and atherosclerotic lesions have cholesterol in them. We are now beginning to understand that dietary cholesterol has almost no impact on hard disease, and that cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease at all; in fact, it's more likely to be the bread that you eat, which spikes blood sugar, thus damaging blood vessels and allowing oxidized cholesterol to embed itself beneath the tissue. In short, we were wrong, and for such a long time too. We're wrong about dandruff, acid reflux, and a host of other diseases as well. Because if we were right, we would know how to cure instead of simply how to treat.

It's in the hands of people to figure out what's wrong with them when nothing else works. Because until science catches up, that's the best we can do.

There isn't a single cause for acne. It's super hard to diagnose, and super hard to treat. If only it were as simple as hormones=acne, we would have cured it by now. Plenty of hormonal treatments do exist. Many people have both treated and cured their acne using diet as a tool. Many have also used accutane, antibiotics, hormonal treatments like birth control or herbs, and topicals. It's hard to generalize when it comes to acne.

One has only to look so far as observation to understand that acne isn't something that 'just happens'. Many groups of people all around the world do not suffer from acne at all. Often, immigrants moving from one area to another will gain or lose their acne. Environment has much to do with this malady, and I don't doubt that some sort of diet can (almost) completely prevent it from happening. However, I do doubt that a diet can always cure acne.

Some people believe that they can only believe accepted science. Being a scientist, I would advise others not to do so. Science is wrong many times before it is right. Look at heart disease. We thought it was caused by eating too many eggs, because eggs have cholesterol in them, and atherosclerotic lesions have cholesterol in them. We are now beginning to understand that dietary cholesterol has almost no impact on hard disease, and that cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease at all; in fact, it's more likely to be the bread that you eat, which spikes blood sugar, thus damaging blood vessels and allowing oxidized cholesterol to embed itself beneath the tissue. In short, we were wrong, and for such a long time too. We're wrong about dandruff, acid reflux, and a host of other diseases as well. Because if we were right, we would know how to cure instead of simply how to treat.

It's in the hands of people to figure out what's wrong with them when nothing else works. Because until science catches up, that's the best we can do.

As a "scientist" shouldn't you know that there is a strong hereditary component to cystic acne? my father had Acne Conglobata and so did all three of my half brothers (his kids) and I got an aggressive strain of acne as well (though not conglobata, but still very severe). All of us developed this at exactly the same age at 11 years old. Do you really think that's environmental? ha! genetics have the strongest pull on everything.

Yes of course. That's why some people can abuse their bodies horribly and be 'fine'. It's just a predisposition, though. Not a cause.

There isn't a single cause for acne. It's super hard to diagnose, and super hard to treat. If only it were as simple as hormones=acne, we would have cured it by now. Plenty of hormonal treatments do exist. Many people have both treated and cured their acne using diet as a tool. Many have also used accutane, antibiotics, hormonal treatments like birth control or herbs, and topicals. It's hard to generalize when it comes to acne.

One has only to look so far as observation to understand that acne isn't something that 'just happens'. Many groups of people all around the world do not suffer from acne at all. Often, immigrants moving from one area to another will gain or lose their acne. Environment has much to do with this malady, and I don't doubt that some sort of diet can (almost) completely prevent it from happening. However, I do doubt that a diet can always cure acne.

Some people believe that they can only believe accepted science. Being a scientist, I would advise others not to do so. Science is wrong many times before it is right. Look at heart disease. We thought it was caused by eating too many eggs, because eggs have cholesterol in them, and atherosclerotic lesions have cholesterol in them. We are now beginning to understand that dietary cholesterol has almost no impact on hard disease, and that cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease at all; in fact, it's more likely to be the bread that you eat, which spikes blood sugar, thus damaging blood vessels and allowing oxidized cholesterol to embed itself beneath the tissue. In short, we were wrong, and for such a long time too. We're wrong about dandruff, acid reflux, and a host of other diseases as well. Because if we were right, we would know how to cure instead of simply how to treat.

It's in the hands of people to figure out what's wrong with them when nothing else works. Because until science catches up, that's the best we can do.

As a "scientist" shouldn't you know that there is a strong hereditary component to cystic acne? my father had Acne Conglobata and so did all three of my half brothers (his kids) and I got an aggressive strain of acne as well (though not conglobata, but still very severe). All of us developed this at exactly the same age at 11 years old. Do you really think that's environmental? ha! genetics have the strongest pull on everything.

What's your theory to explain those of us who have NO acne in their family line? Neither my mother or father, nor any of my aunts and uncles or grandparents on either side have acne. None of them had it as teens either. No one else in my family (including all cousins) has it like I do. Not ONE person.