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Something that I'v always wondered about christianity:

If mother teresa was a non believer but still did many good deeds, would she go to hell?

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well, first, if MOTHER Teresa was a non believer she wouldnt have done what she did

Jesus is not just forgiveness, His holy spirit is what drives us to do good. Not because we're making up for what we did wrong, but because we have His heart for those hurting! I WANT THIS! haha God that counts as a prayer by the way!

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It does make you feel good, also I think it always helps to have a bit of good Karma in your corner.

I know, I was hoping to get a christian opinion.

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Nonsense people do good deeds because they are good people not because god drove them to do it, I'v known of non believers who do nothing but help humanity 24/7.

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i have a question that will baffle even the most religious.

if jesus can do anything can he microwave a burrito so hot that he himself cannot eat it?

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Well logically, a man is convicted of molesting and killing a child. Does it matter that He finds a cure for AIDS? He is still a dirty, rotten child molester. Though He saves millions of lives, He ruined one.

And I don't think you would have a problem with giving Him the death penalty. Deeds do not atone for sin

Ok lesser level, your a kid, you make fun of somebody for lets say being fat, or have bad acne. Years later the words you've said have driven him to suicide.

but ok that didnt happen to you, you still say "I am not a natural born sinner"

There is no way I, who don't know you, can pin point sin in your life.

But let me ask you this, If man is naturally good then how come people like Ghandi, or Mother Teresa are the exception to the world for goodness? For every one Mother Teresa, you can list thousands of murders, or tens of thousands of child molesters, and millions of theives

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I was going to hop into this yesterday, and then realized it was getting time for work.

Well, it's STILL getting time for work this morning, but I did want to put in my two cents.

I believe people are basically good. This is an odd thing that I believe in, considering my own parents were child abusers and sex offenders. This is an odd thing for me to believe in because I've been seriously hurt by others and have not had what one could call an "easy" life.

But I still believe people are basically good. Why?

Maybe it comes down to love. Maybe it comes down to sick v.s sin. I don't believe my parents abused me because of some inherent flaw in thier soul. I believe they abused me because they were in pain and didn't know any better. They were sick, not evil.

Does this belief excuse it? Absolutley not.

But what this belief DOES allow for me is the ability to move on in my own life without hate, without recrimantion. If they are sick, then I can still love them for the tortured human beings that they are.

If they were evil, well.....then there would be no hope for them.

And I simply refuse to let go of the hope. If I, one small person who bears the wounds of what they did to me, can learn to love them despite the anger, then I would believe that so, too, can God.

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The greatest deficiency of Christianity is that it categorically values belief over action.

Salvation stipulates belief in Jesus as the son of God made flesh, crucified, died and ascended for our sins-- this belief is the sine qua non (without which there is nothing) of Christianity, all beliefs come second and without this belief you simply will not be saved. All action comes after; one must first and foremost believe. What you do is secondary if not immaterial to what you believe. An exceptionally immoral person who believes in the divinity and redemptive power of a man who lived two millenia ago STILL stands a chance of making it into heaven simply because of his or her belief; an excpetionally moral person who is unaware of, indifferent to, or rejects the divinity and salvific power of Jesus unwittingly or willingly condemns him- or herself to hell.

So long as we think what are we told to, then, despite being immoral, we can be saved; so long as we think for ourselves, then, despite being moral, we cannot.

Christianity is therefore, as religions go, nothing more than mind-control for 'practising' (ie 'believing' more importantly than 'practising') Christians, and an act of social conservatism for those who simply 'call' themselves Christians (the overwhelming majority of the 1.2 billion 'Christians' in the world). You're either brainwashed or, as in most cases, simply too afraid to stand out by admitting that you're not. I guarantee you, if everyone person you knew in the whole world started right now going on about how the sun is God, while you'd be perplexed, amused, maybe a little disturbed at first, eventually you would take the path of least resistance and easiest living and just go with the flow, joining in the inexorable movement to build up an entire mythology, a solar-bible, a solar-church, a solar-priest, a solar-prayer, solar-sins, solar-virtues and a solar-afterlife, all around a solar divinity.

For the points discussed above on belief versus action, Christianity is increasingly ill-suited to the modern world: Christianity tells us that we have to think this and not think that or we will punished, while the modern world values freedom of thought while judging men by what they DO. Seen as such, though I am a secular humanist myself, I would say that Judaism is a faith far better suited to modernity: Jews are essentially free to believe more or less whatever they please-- at least their conception of salvation vs condemnation is not contingent on their beliefs-- but their faith is expressed primarily through a highly codified and traditionalized system of rituals, observances and practices. This is why Jewishness has evolved from a religious identity to a cultural and ethnic identity; when your religion is all about what you do and how you do it, that religion will create a community, a culture, a 'race' of descendants practising the rituals and observances that bind together their cohesive cultural identity to the point that belief itself, classically prerequisite to religion, becomes secondary to the sense of cultural belonging and identity this brings.

The ability to do while believing what you will is far more highly prized in modern society than believing what you are told while not necessarily doing much besides.

As for Karma, sociology and behavioral psychology offer far more practical insights into why and how what we do affects others' lives and our own in countless subtle spin-off ways. Life is a series of choices creating incalculable contingencies which affect other choices. We do not need to run around ascribing circumstances and events, whether positive or negative, to the vindictively or favorably paternalistic will of some higher power, punishing or rewarding us in direct response to such choices or indeed to choices that we never made ourselves and over which we had no control (as implied by the doctrine of original sin).

In short, we do not need to hallucinate causality to have meaning, mistaking coincidence and chaos for providence and purpose. This is simply the result of the human mind's compulsion to see patterns, a capacity without which we cannot make sense of 'reality'. It is a pity that this same compulsions leads us to try to escape it. There is enough in the world around us as it is to account for how and why what we do 'sends out ripples' in such a way that things often 'come full circle'.

The Buddhist teaching of Karma is effective as a secular moral principle that doesn't require any belief in a high power. It reflects Kant's categorical imperative, which also reinforces the so-called golden rule of doing as you would have others do unto you. Before any action the morality of which eludes you, ask yourself whether you could live in a world where everyone in this situation were to do as you are about to. While this moral principle has its circumstantial and philosophical exceptions and limitations, it is by and large a helpful principle for us to live in a more livable world, WITHOUT needing to conjure up superstitious figures who shuffle us around a cosmic board game, choosing for us at their fancy whether we get to live on Park Avenue, pass go, or end up in jail.

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If a person was born into a Hindu family in a predominantly Hindu comunity, they have vertually no chance of repenting to Jesus and therefore would go to hell bdespite the fact that he/she was a good person.

Yet a serial killer and rapist who believed in god still stands a chance of going to heaven.

Seems unfair....

not that I believe anyway

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*smooches Antony* You're like the macrocosm of what I believe! Everything in my life is related to me personally, and you explain it on a larger, world-based level.

That rocks.

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god will not punish you as he is a forgiving person. if you pray for forgiveness he will forgive you. i think we should all pray for eachothers wellbeing and to give them hope of overcoming our acne problems. if you want to be prayed for leave your name and we should all pray for each other

nowt to lose, afterall god is the greatest healer of all. eusa_boohoo.gif

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Cheers, Johny. And that, in the end of it all, is what I believe truth comes down to. A wishing for the well being of your fellows, and a willingness to have hope.

I'm not Christian, but I never mind prayer. The way I figure it, I'll take any and all of the positive thoughts anyone is willing to send thier way!

smile.gif

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my gosh.. ur hatred for acne has clouded ur judgement.

how could you hate god, the first cause the creator of all who loves you just because for probaly 10 years of ur life you will suffer from acne which most of you who are bitching wont even go on accutane. Do you relize how good you have it? There are people who have it far far far worse off than acne. People are actualy dieing and in pain all over the world in millions and some are to weak to even speak anymore and at this very second taking there last breath and life has just left them this very instant. Yet you, who are healthy, not in pain and can live just fine but have some red spots on ur face comparing ur suffering to that of millions across the world is sickening. and you can not dispute gods existence, He is the First cause, the uncaused cause. Explain creation and the beggining of the universe, how it started and began without god.

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JUDEA A.D. 33

SATURDAY AFTERNOON

ABOUT TEA TIME

Jesus Christ

How blessed are those who know that he's of God. How blessed are

the sorrowful; they shall find consolation.

How blessed are those of gentle spirit; they shall have the earth

for their possession. How blessed are those who hunger and

thirst to see right prevail; they shall be satisfied. How blessed

are those whose hearts are pure; they shall see God.

Mother

Speak up!

Brian

Sch, quiet, mum!

Mother

Well, I can't hear a thing. Let's go to stoning!

Bignose

Ssch!

Brian

You can go to a stoning anytime!

Mother

Ah, come on, Brian!

Bignose

Will you be quiet!

Bignose's Wife

Don't pick your nose!

Bignose

I wasn't picking my nose. I was scratching it.

Bignose's Wife

You was picking it while you was talking to that lady!

Bignose

I wasn't!

Bignose's Wife

Leave it alone! Give it a rest!

Wiseguy

Do you mind, I can't hear a word he's saying.

Bignose's Wife

Don't you "do you mind" me! I was talking to my husband!

Wiseguy

Well, can't you talk to him somewhere else? I can't hear a bloody

thing!

Bignose

Don't you swear at my wife!

Wiseguy

Well, I was only asking her to shut up so that I can hear what

he's saying, Bignose!

Bignose's Wife

Don't you call my husband "Bignose"!

Bignose

Well, he has got a big nose.

Bearded Man

Could you be quiet, please? What was that?

Wiseguy

I don't know, I was too busy talking to Bignose!

Spectator I

I think it was "Blessed are the cheesemakers".

Bearded Man's Wife

Aha, what's so special about the cheesemakers?

Bearded Man

Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally; it refers

to any manufacturers of dairy products.

post-7514-1120012939.gif

post-7514-1120012939.gif

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there is no god close the topic!

how can anyone like us that has experience acne still believe in god, IMO acne is a major reason i dont believe in god, cause it taught me life is bull crap! and my scars onmy body basicaly shatter my confidence of doing much. IMO its insane to still believe in god with all the bad things in the world including are personal favorite (sarcasm) acne!

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My lack of belief in God has nothing to do with my acne.  It has to do with the claim that a vindictive father figure sits watching us and at the end of our life tells us if we've been good or not, and what our punishment will be.

Also the fact that this alleged God's actions in biblical times were racist and sick, and that the God in the bible is not only a megalomaniac but a sadist.  Then they preach how much he supposedly loves us. 

I also won't be cutting foreskins off of men I kill and using them to purchase virgins, or keeping the rags from my daughter when she looses her virginity.  Plus my great grandmother was born out of wedlock, so as you can see, I'm going to hell anyways 'allegedly'.

Religion.  Wake up people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Edited by Datura

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