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eva_li

Acne Scars - My Journey - Subcision

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42 minutes ago, EagleEva said:
@Nina22 hm, that sounds a bit disappointing...  But thanks for explanation of the order - I did not understand why he does dermapen first, before subcision! So he wants to see which scars remain tethered? Hm, I am super plump after dermapen! I dont have that many tethered scars... I have a lot of boxcars which are not tethered but might benefit from subcision anyway IMHO. There s a new thread where poster asks about big boxcar and everyone adviced subcision. Emil was more willing to do subcision on more of my scars. Mmmm (( If I end up getting only dermapen and super quick tca cross, I ll be rather disappointed cause I can get dermapen+ PRP here cheap and quick.

anyway, dont know about the lump. I have not heard of a lump after PRP yet. But I d appreciate if someone more experienced chimes in and gives their opinion.
Yes that's his method to see the tethered scars once you swell after Dermapen - I was also surprised. I also want subcision done on my bigger scars with filler as this is the only thing that has ever helped me. I had filler without subcision and the result was not good. He applied lots of pressure when he moved dermapen all over - my bones were getting uncomfortable I'm not sure if your Derms are also so intense with it, hence I believe this caused the lumps - prof Chu told me he can inject them later if they don't resolve so I'm not too worried since they are only seen when I stretch my face.. And after tca cross I got a bit worried because the scars got actually worse for few weeks and now it's just all back to normal.. not even sure since I was not observing myself so closely before. I'm attaching some photos - first one shows my biggest scars that I wanted to get sorted and he didn't even do subcision there and second just my other superficial scars and the one that looks the deepest there in the middle was subcised :smileys_n_people_30:

image.jpeg

image.jpg

Edited by Nina22

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hmm interesting. the biggest one def seems rolling to me. and some of those superficial ones too... 

well, I always feel the dermapen on my bones (cheekbone, chin) a loooot.
the lumps should resolve by themselves tho, are u already seeing progress with them?

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3 minutes ago, EagleEva said:

hmm interesting. the biggest one def seems rolling to me. and some of those superficial ones too... 

well, I always feel the dermapen on my bones (cheekbone, chin) a loooot.
the lumps should resolve by themselves tho, are u already seeing progress with them?

The first photo is before treatment now I have a lump on this biggest scar so looks a bit more filled  ^^ he put PRP there .. But I'm sure only filler will help if anything.. Hm i think it's sloooowly getting better .. I am also getting some white (acne) spots after the treatment that are normally gone within one or two days but weird since my face is all clean normally but it's also less and less.. Did you see some results with dermapen on your scars? - and if so, how long did it take to show? 

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On 2/25/2018 at 5:08 AM, Nina22 said:
Since he is Danish he probably got paid for going to university ^_^
What???? Grad school is free there?????? OMG. Those Euro guys have it good. BTW, yours scars don't look bad to me, if I can get mine down to yours, I'd be pretty happy. Mine are bad.
On 2/25/2018 at 10:09 AM, EagleEva said:

Oh an PS:) I am not expecting to see results in a month, I know TCA cross calls for how many, perhaps at least 5 treatments or more. Subcision calls for 3-4 sessions in most cases and the results come soo gradually.

After three weeks since my first subcision I was sad that after the microswell had disappeared I saw my scars again.
But now, after some 7 weeks, I can see the subcised scars filling in gradually. Not completely but there's a progress for sure. With sub it is too early to judge anywhere before 3 months gone by I think. And it almost always requires multiple subs to get somewhere, I knew this from the start.

Geez, I didnt realize it takes that many sessions. How far apart between sessions and what's the recovery time for each? If it takes 3 months to see results after 3-4 sessions, I am guessing 1 month apart? Did you do the TCA cross in between each sub session? How long do those holes take to close up? Seen some of those subcision videos and that's a big arse 18gauge needle they stick in. So surprised the needles dont cause more scars.
On 2/25/2018 at 1:27 PM, EagleEva said:
@Nina22 hm, that sounds a bit disappointing...  But thanks for explanation of the order - I did not understand why he does dermapen first, before subcision! So he wants to see which scars remain tethered? Hm, I am super plump after dermapen! I dont have that many tethered scars... I have a lot of boxcars which are not tethered but might benefit from subcision anyway IMHO. There s a new thread where poster asks about big boxcar and everyone adviced subcision. Emil was more willing to do subcision on more of my scars. Mmmm (( If I end up getting only dermapen and super quick tca cross, I ll be rather disappointed cause I can get dermapen+ PRP here cheap and quick.

anyway, dont know about the lump. I have not heard of a lump after PRP yet. But I d appreciate if someone more experienced chimes in and gives their opinion.
Aren't boxcars good for TCA cross to raise them up too? Edited by Runawayspaceship

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No guys , his wife speak french only,
I think if you want a quick result only davin lim would respond at you scars : he did nine procedure in one session for my friend you can look the review in realself its black skin,
dr emil purpose to me a laser erbium because my skin is brown he also control the tca cross for brown skin which its difficult for some doctor, remember that erbium laser is not dangerous than co2 , and 80% are the skills of the doctor ans 20% the device, i have an appointment with emil in. July for erbium+tca+ prp then three day after filler for atrophic scars if i dont have result i Wil see davin lim in Australia but you sometimes one session is not enough
you can ask him to send to you a picture of before and after, he send to me a picture of a girl but i cànnot share because i dont have his agree

Edited by neofox

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Guys, so I came back from London last night!

Prof Chu did Dermapen + PRP first (quite aggresive, 1.6mm on forehead, wow :-O but I trust he knows what's he doing), then subcision on those scars that still seemed tethered after dermapen (quite a number on both cheeks, only 1-2 on forehead :( ) and TCA cross to finish things off.

I must say that it was so bloody and painful! Im usually good with pain but this time, oh boy, so many injections (prp then anesthaesia), such deep dermapen... But hey, you gotta suffer a bit for beauty :D 

I would like to ask you about TCA cross and after-care - I am a newbie in this one!
The white frosting disappeared after a while and now, the day after, I dont even know which scars and pores were crossed. There s nothing. So I am confused as for what should I do - in terms of skin care and topicals.
I read on other threads here that you should use vaseline, alove vera + honey and so on but when?
Now, or after the scabs form?
When will they form?
Thanks so much guys - I really wanna do this right.
In the past I did Dermapen separately, subcision separately, and now I have had these three treatments all at once and dont really know what to do in order to improve the results and not hurt myself.


Here are some pictures - first right after the session (yesterday afternoon), the others from now. I am still massively swollen like a chipmunk which I quite like lol and bruises are starting to form.
Prof Chu reeeeaaally takes care to press hard and massage the areas after sub so lumps dont develop so I hope they wont.
The only thing that really concerns me at this point is a weird scratch on my right cheek. I think it is incision point from needle because it is bloody. Cant it be from tca cross or where incision and tca cross met?  
 

IMG_0347 copy.jpg

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IMG_0393 copy.jpg

Edited by eva_li

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@EagleEva Now is fine. Grease for Peace. Meaning a wet wound is a happy wound. Do not rub them, exfoliate them, or scrub them. When going in the shower wash the face with your hands splashing, not directly with the shower. They will remain red for a while, use makeup. TCA Cross as you know takes several rounds. " In the past I did Dermapen separately, subcision separately, and now I have had these three treatments all at once and dont really know what to do in order to improve the results and not hurt myself. " You will have to repeat cross. Your right cheek is where the needle was inserted. Put the grease for peace stuff on it. IT will heal with time. If you cut yourself and heal normally, ... it will heal. Makeup is fine, makeup remover could dissolve the cross areas. Aloe is very healing. Treat it like any scratch, ... most would use honey and aloe or triple antibiotic cream. Strataderm makes a good product as well, they are in Switzerland. 

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@beautifulambition can you link me to an antibiotic cream you have in mind? I wanna look at the active ingredients so I know what to look for. 
when I google antibiotic cream in my language it gives me antibacterial which I think is not what you mean.

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@beautifulambition thanks a lot! Yayy, Strataderm is available here in pharmacies :) However, it says it is for new and old scars - I dont even have scabs yet. Shall I use it on the scabs when they develop? 

Is HA serum acceptable? Thats what I normally use after Dermapen. 
As a moisturizer I am using only jojoba oil or rosehip + vit E oil as of now because I dont wanna risk any further sketchy ingredients in standard moisturizers.
I am using vaseline (Aquaphor) only on the needle entry points.

Hope Im fine.

UPDATE: found out there's an antibioitic ointment available here (bacitracin + neomycin) so Im running to pharmacy to get it :)  Edited by eva_li

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54 minutes ago, eva_li said:
@beautifulambition thanks a lot! Yayy, Strataderm is available here in pharmacies :) However, it says it is for new and old scars - I dont even have scabs yet. Shall I use it on the scabs when they develop? 

Is HA serum acceptable? Thats what I normally use after Dermapen. 
As a moisturizer I am using only jojoba oil or rosehip + vit E oil as of now because I dont wanna risk any further sketchy ingredients in standard moisturizers.
I am using vaseline (Aquaphor) only on the needle entry points.

Hope Im fine.

UPDATE: found out there's an antibioitic ointment available here (bacitracin + neomycin) so Im running to pharmacy to get it :) 
Hey,

the scubs in my case formed on the 2nd or 3rd day I was using creams from the pharmacy cosmetic - Avene (Cicalfate line) or La Roche-Possay - Cicaplast even better, these creams are meant to be used after cosmetic procedures and have some antibacterial and healing properties also contain zinc, etc and are non-comedonic and hypoallergenic.

I looked similar to you btw :) Edited by Nina22

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Guys,

I am having a dilemma - your advice is much needed and appreciated now.


I had the "triple treatment" by Prof Chu on 28 February - that is dermapen PRP + su + TCA cross. 
Not many areas of my face were subcised. I barely have bruises now (day 8) - just yellowish/greenish tint.
As for the TCA cross, some scabs/crusts are still on, some seem to be gone. It was my first time so I dont know what is "normal".
My point is -- I think I am an OK healer as far as I can say. (Also it is possible that I just dont have unrealistic expectations and can handle a lot of "mess" on my face as long as I know it is healing period.) I wish there was an objective "test" for healing abilities but my subjective sense is that I heal fine.

Now to the question -  I wanna do another subcision with filler in 4 weeks time (29 March). The rationale is that I am running out of vacation days and if I do it on 29 I will have 4 days extra because it is Easter holiday = public holiday.
Is it advisable this soon? Should I be fine? Prof Chu told me to wait 6 weeks before any next treatment but I feel it might be individual.
Also, important to note that given the nature of my scars it is very likely most of it wont be Nokor subcision but just cannula and superficial skinbooster. I feel I should be able to handle that?


Thanks for your honest opinions!

(Also, sadly I came down with a flu 3 days ago but Im already feeling much better now, so Im optimistic I can recover in a week.)
 

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@beautifulambition ok, thanks.
But I thought that you always recommended others to space out treatments more. better than rush it. It wont be only filler but possibly more subcision, too. 

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@eva_li Yes I do. But this is when you have to do it. IT has to fit your schedule. It's not optimal. But nothing is in life. The body takes a minimum of 3 months to heal and 6 months is more on average. This case above with skin booser, cannula, and nokor is like topping up any area that needs it instead of disturbing it. 

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10 hours ago, eva_li said:

Now to the question -  I wanna do another subcision with filler in 4 weeks time (29 March). The rationale is that I am running out of vacation days and if I do it on 29 I will have 4 days extra because it is Easter holiday = public holiday.
Is it advisable this soon? Should I be fine? Prof Chu told me to wait 6 weeks before any next treatment but I feel it might be individual.
Also, important to note that given the nature of my scars it is very likely most of it wont be Nokor subcision but just cannula and superficial skinbooster. I feel I should be able to handle that?


How much more improvement do you or Dr. Chu "realistically" expect to get from another treatment in just 4 weeks? There's no need for a top-up in 4 weeks, period.

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11 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:

How much more improvement do you or Dr. Chu "realistically" expect to get from another treatment in just 4 weeks? There's no need for a top-up in 4 weeks, period.

wait. I'm not following.
I never had filler before. Just sub. So Im not "toping-up".
Now I wanna filler and it just happens that there's public holiday in 4 weeks and I d like to make use of that, instead of taking days off work.

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41 minutes ago, eva_li said:

wait. I'm not following.
I never had filler before. Just sub. So Im not "toping-up".
Now I wanna filler and it just happens that there's public holiday in 4 weeks and I d like to make use of that, instead of taking days off work.
I thought Chu is not doing fillers? Are you thinking about someone specific? And have you decided on which kind of filler will be most suitable for your scars, and which areas, cheek+forehead?

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@eva_li Do what is best for your time, $$$$, and purpose. Yes you should wait longer but in this instance I don't see a problem. In the future space out things more but your OK for your Holiday. It's not like your doing subcision followed by RF needling like the other poster is doing back to back. 

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8 hours ago, eva_li said:

wait. I'm not following.
I never had filler before. Just sub. So Im not "toping-up".
Now I wanna filler and it just happens that there's public holiday in 4 weeks and I d like to make use of that, instead of taking days off work.

What I meant was that there is no need to get another subcision in such a short amount of time. Sure, skin sheds every 4 weeks but we're talking about collagen here. I think another round of subcision will only disrupt the collagen production. 

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@eva_li may i ask how you've traveled to Odense? For me it is a 7 hour drive so i was thinking to go by plane. But there is only a plane going to Copenhagen from here.

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@Noa27
thanks for the question, you reminded me of one important thing I wished to clarify here.

Odense is easy. You take a train directly from CPH Airport, takes around 1.5 hours to Odense. vvv convenient. Once you re in Odense, you can take a 10min bus to the clinic or grab a cab.
I myself stayed in CPH for couple days since I have plenty friends there but it would be 100% doable and convenient to make it in one day. (I doubt that Odense has its own airport, anyway;)

So I traveled both to Odense and to London. Having had this experience I must say there have been some misconceived statements in this thread, more precisely that traveling to London is quicker and easier compared to Odense.

In fact, it took me almost 2 full hours to get to West London to Chu from an airport, I landed at Stansted. One hour train to London Liverpool St, almost one more to Chiswick. But even if you travel to more centrally located airport to the west, like Heathrow (no low-cost flights however! and I think many people here will try to save money on the flight), it will always take you almost an hour to get to West London.

So time-efficiency-wise, both are just about the same. London is more hassle ...cause it's London :D You gotta make more transfers, subways, buses, trains; crowds of people. Depends if you're in mood for that. On the other hand, no one cares about you and your red swollen face :D Denmark is calmer and actually easier in number of transfers and extra moves you have to make. Everyone speak English.


tl;dr: Gettin Chu in London and Emil in Odense takes approximately just about the same time once you land at an airport. Minimal difference.
 

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Glad to hear you have had it done Eva, interested to see photos once the swelling has settled.

A couple of questions if you don't mind..!

-You said Chu used dermapen on you, is RF microneedling not an option with him?

-You mentioned a few weeks back you was a little concerned with an incision point, how's that looking now? (Am I right in thinking Chu uses a wider needle to Emil?)

-Overall, if you was to only have treatment with one Doctor based on your experience, Chu or Emil?

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On 3/8/2018 at 4:28 AM, eva_li said:


Also, important to note that given the nature of my scars it is very likely most of it wont be Nokor subcision but just cannula and superficial skinbooster. I feel I should be able to handle that?

 

What's the difference bet sub with Nocor and cannula+filler sub? I would think the Nocor sub would get more scar tissue released since it's a trangular tip versus the other one being just a needle. The Nocor seems best to cover more surface area. Isnt the whole point to excise the scar tissue and releasing the skin depression?

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