I've heard that too, and I believe it is probably true to a certain extent as very cold water 'shocks' your skin and that could stimulate your sebaceous glands, I tend to wash mine with warm-ish water before I apply a cleanser, tend wash it off with cool water to tighten the pores.

Over-washing doesn't cause more oil production. That's a little like saying that over-washing your house or apartment makes it dirtier!

Over-washing doesn't cause more oil production. That's a little like saying that over-washing your house or apartment makes it dirtier!

 

In the past I used to use dove soap morning and night and I would give it a good scrub which made it very dry after words. After a few hours, my skin would be very oily which resulted in bad acne. Although, this is what I believe but there were probably other factors. Now I've corrected my mistakes such as washing less and my skin is a lot less oily. So do you know if using quite cold water would strip away oil easier then plain cool water?

...Now I've corrected my mistakes such as washing less and my skin is a lot less oily. So do you know if using quite cold water would strip away oil easier then plain cool water?

You're washing less (repeat: LESS), and your skin is a lot less oily??? Do you think that makes any sense at all?

You tell me: do you really think that washing with "quite cold water" would wash away any more oil than "plain cool water"?

Over-washing doesn't cause more oil production. That's a little like saying that over-washing your house or apartment makes it dirtier!

 

In the past I used to use dove soap morning and night and I would give it a good scrub which made it very dry after words. After a few hours, my skin would be very oily which resulted in bad acne. Although, this is what I believe but there were probably other factors. Now I've corrected my mistakes such as washing less and my skin is a lot less oily. So do you know if using quite cold water would strip away oil easier then plain cool water?

 

all wrong

it doesnt matter how many times you wash, it wont change the amount of oil being produces.

...Now I've corrected my mistakes such as washing less and my skin is a lot less oily. So do you know if using quite cold water would strip away oil easier then plain cool water?

You're washing less (repeat: LESS), and your skin is a lot less oily??? Do you think that makes any sense at all?

You tell me: do you really think that washing with "quite cold water" would wash away any more oil than "plain cool water"?

 

That makes 100 and Ten percent correct. Have you not heard of over washing creating dryness? Thus making your pores produce more oil to compensate the dryness? Like wow if I had continued to dry out my skin like that I would have severe scarring by now due to all that acne that had formed because of the oil production. In my case/ how I see it, if no oil came out of the pores, I would have acne free which is impossible. I could be wrong though and you could be correct since I just joined and you have 2k posts.

Over-washing doesn't cause more oil production. That's a little like saying that over-washing your house or apartment makes it dirtier!

 

In the past I used to use dove soap morning and night and I would give it a good scrub which made it very dry after words. After a few hours, my skin would be very oily which resulted in bad acne. Although, this is what I believe but there were probably other factors. Now I've corrected my mistakes such as washing less and my skin is a lot less oily. So do you know if using quite cold water would strip away oil easier then plain cool water?

 

all wrong

it doesnt matter how many times you wash, it wont change the amount of oil being produces.

 

So like I can scrub away day and night, which I want to because I want to exfoliate the dead skin, and I wont have more oil produced? Then what exactly affects oil production? How I see it, the more I wash the more I strip away oil and the more my face will think it's dry and make more oil. I remember watching that a Dr. Oz episode and he clearly said we don't need to wash that much especially if you stay at home all day and not breaking a sweat or playing in the mud.

...Now I've corrected my mistakes such as washing less and my skin is a lot less oily. So do you know if using quite cold water would strip away oil easier then plain cool water?

You're washing less (repeat: LESS), and your skin is a lot less oily??? Do you think that makes any sense at all?

You tell me: do you really think that washing with "quite cold water" would wash away any more oil than "plain cool water"?

 

EDIT: To answer that question: "Quite HOT water" CAN strip away more oil then "plain Warm water" soo can quite cold strip away oil easier then plain cool water? . But my original question was comparing if cold water (not just cool but Quite Cold) can strip away as much as hot water can.

Over washing your face WILL produce more oil. Now, whether or not you notice it is something else entirely.. especially if you continue to wash it off.-- but believe me, the underlining of your skin is very active and busy trying to re-hydrate itself. And because your face is now dessert dry your skin will try to overcompensate- much like your face reacts a week after being sunburned. Gran-it, this takes a lot of consistent washing. I don't think 2 washes a day is going to set off too many facial alarms.

Your skin type also has a lot to do with it. Everyone's face is slightly different-- and washing affects people differently depending on skin sensitivity.

I don't think cold water makes much difference. The only real difference is that extremely cold water will tighten pores, and extremely hot water will enlarge them. Factor that in and it might explain some facial reactions.

And to answer your original question more specifically..

have you ever tried washing oil off (suntan oil, baby oil, etc) your hands? I'm sure you have. What did you notice? Well, I notice that cold water is not as effective as warm or hot. So my personal opinion on this is that cold water is going to be less effective than warm. Can cold water "strip" away oil? Sure, but it'll take longer

.....though I write some parts of this as FACT, it's only my opinion based upon my experience. Please keep this in mind.

That makes 100 and Ten percent correct. Have you not heard of over washing creating dryness? Thus making your pores produce more oil to compensate the dryness?

Over-washing can cause dryness, but not for the reason you think. Educated posters here (like "LabGirl81") have discussed the various chemicals produced by human skin which helps support water retention. Sebum isn't one of those things. On the contrary, I've previously posted a study by world-renowned dermatologist Dr. Albert M. Kligman MD, PhD, who found that sebum has no significant effect at increasing moisture retention in the skin. He found that you have to apply TEN TIMES the normal amount of sebum on facial skin, before it has even a noticeable effect on moisture.

all wrong

it doesnt matter how many times you wash, it wont change the amount of oil being produces.

So like I can scrub away day and night, which I want to because I want to exfoliate the dead skin, and I wont have more oil produced?

No. Washing has no effect on oil production, other than simply washing it away. That's something else that was proved by Albert M. Kligman MD, PhD. It's also been demonstrated by LabGirl81, myself, and other people.

Then what exactly affects oil production?

HORMONES affect oil production, especially androgens and estrogens.

How I see it, the more I wash the more I strip away oil and the more my face will think it's dry and make more oil.

That's one of the most popular misconceptions about human skin, and one which I spend a lot of my time fighting.

Over washing your face WILL produce more oil.

Washing your face (or OVER-washing it, for that matter) has no effect on the production of sebum (see my previous post). Washing it can get rid of oil on the surface, but it has no effect on how much oil your skin PRODUCES. If you had been reading my posts for the last few years, you'd know all about that!

Now, whether or not you notice it is something else entirely.. especially if you continue to wash it off.-- but believe me, the underlining of your skin is very active and busy trying to re-hydrate itself. And because your face is now dessert dry your skin will try to overcompensate- much like your face reacts a week after being sunburned. Gran-it, this takes a lot of consistent washing. I don't think 2 washes a day is going to set off too many facial alarms.

See my last post in which I discuss the findings by Dr. Albert M. Kligman MD, PhD, who found that the amount of sebum on the surface of the skin has no significant effect on its water retention.

Over washing your face WILL produce more oil.

Washing your face (or OVER-washing it, for that matter) has no effect on the production of sebum (see my previous post). Washing it can get rid of oil on the surface, but it has no effect on how much oil your skin PRODUCES. If you had been reading my posts for the last few years, you'd know all about that!

Now, whether or not you notice it is something else entirely.. especially if you continue to wash it off.-- but believe me, the underlining of your skin is very active and busy trying to re-hydrate itself. And because your face is now dessert dry your skin will try to overcompensate- much like your face reacts a week after being sunburned. Gran-it, this takes a lot of consistent washing. I don't think 2 washes a day is going to set off too many facial alarms.

See my last post in which I discuss the findings by Dr. Albert M. Kligman MD, PhD, who found that the amount of sebum on the surface of the skin has no significant effect on its water retention.

 

I don't discount his research.. I'm sure there's a large group of people who can relate with what he's saying in conjunction to their individual faces.

But I am using myself and others I've talked to with similar skin types.

The whole premise around this has more to do with WATER retention then anything else. When the skin is dehydrated (by that I mean lack of water, not oil) the skin must re-hydrate itself. The fastest way for our skin to do that is by producing oil. The skin WILL try to balance itself, there's all kinds of scientific evidence to support this (our bodies do this all the time if we have too much sugar, salt, water, acid, etc..) And that's why when I wash my face thoroughly in the morning-- by evening my skin drips with oil. That's also why many people that use cleaners which include ingredients like sodium sulfate or alcohol before bed (drying agents) wake-up only to find their skin more oily in the morning. And it's also why people who fly a lot find their faces extremely oily because cabins contain little moisture.. And why people who get facials have less oil on their face the days to follow: because their faces were substantially moisturized.

Coincidence?? Maybe.. but I know my own skin. And I repeat what I said in my previous post: People have different skin types, so everyone's face is slightly different. What stimulates my skins nerve endings may not necessarily stimulate yours- which might explain why certain products work for some, and not for others.

But let me just close with: your research is def more substantial and verifiable- so- I'm at a loss. Because I know what the "science" says, but my face acts differently.

Over-washing doesn't cause more oil production. That's a little like saying that over-washing your house or apartment makes it dirtier!

 

When you overwash your skin, the skin produces more oil to make up for the oil loss which in turn leads to acne/spots. Even though the skin may not appear oily, it is prone to getting spots. I know this from experience...so now I restrict to washing my skin for like 10 seconds!

I don't discount his research.. I'm sure there's a large group of people who can relate with what he's saying in conjunction to their individual faces.

But I am using myself and others I've talked to with similar skin types.

The whole premise around this has more to do with WATER retention then anything else. When the skin is dehydrated (by that I mean lack of water, not oil) the skin must re-hydrate itself. The fastest way for our skin to do that is by producing oil. The skin WILL try to balance itself, there's all kinds of scientific evidence to support this (our bodies do this all the time if we have too much sugar, salt, water, acid, etc..) And that's why when I wash my face thoroughly in the morning-- by evening my skin drips with oil. That's also why many people that use cleaners which include ingredients like sodium sulfate or alcohol before bed (drying agents) wake-up only to find their skin more oily in the morning. And it's also why people who fly a lot find their faces extremely oily because cabins contain little moisture.. And why people who get facials have less oil on their face the days to follow: because their faces were substantially moisturized.

I'm talking about WATER retention, too, as I indicated in plain English in a previous post in this thread. I don't have time to argue with everybody in the world who's convinced that their skin "regulates" itself by making more sebum as a way to increase the amount of water, but if you have access to a medical library, I'll let you read Dr. Kligman's own study which found that you have to have something like TEN TIMES the normal amount of sebum on your face, before an increase of moisture (water) is even noticeable at all.

By the way, how do you explain young pre-pubertal children? They don't even make sebum, because they don't have enough testosterone for it to be produced. Do young children spend the entire early part of their lives in misery, because they don't have the sebum which is supposedly required to keep enough moisture (water) in their skin?? OF COURSE NOT!! Furthermore, a fairly recent study by dermatologists (not even by Kligman, this time) found that in elderly people in nursing homes, there was no correlation between the amount of sebum they produced, and the level of moisture in their skin. This proves that in both ends of the aging spectrum (the very young, and the very old), sebum in skin has NOTHING to do with moisture levels.

Because I get tired of having to go over this stuff over and over and over with new members here, I'm going to "bump" an old thread that I started a long time ago (the one that has to do with whether or not sebum "regulates" water retention). Maybe you can learn something from it.

Over-washing doesn't cause more oil production. That's a little like saying that over-washing your house or apartment makes it dirtier!

When you overwash your skin, the skin produces more oil to make up for the oil loss which in turn leads to acne/spots.

Nope. Sorry. Doesn't happen. That claim has been SOUNDLY refuted by doctors, dermatologists, and even ordinary people who who have looked at it with a critical eye.

Bryan, are you 100% sure? Or 98%? Did you conduct these scientific experiments with doctor Albert M. Kligman MD, PhD? Did you help him write his summary to the scientific community? Are you an expert in the mechanics of sebum production?

You see I don't claim any of that. But I don't need to. Because I just use real world results- like myself and countless others that can testify the same.-

Tell me, what are you going to do with those that DO IN FACT become more oily after washing? Completely discount their experience? (like I've seen you do on other posts)

And how can you completely shut someone down like you did above? I think fullofgrace and flowerbud3 know their faces much better than you do. Because it's their face, not yours- and not Dr. Experts.

And for you to suggest we're simply not using a "critical eye"? That's a little offensive. Like we don't know what we can clearly see in the mirror and feel with our own hands?

Are we all supposed to turn our heads and pretend there isn't more oil on our faces?

Here's some friendly advice, leave room for error. And people will respect you more.

Bryan, are you 100% sure? Or 98%? Did you conduct these scientific experiments with doctor Albert M. Kligman MD, PhD? Did you help him write his summary to the scientific community? Are you an expert in the mechanics of sebum production?

I am 100% sure! If you live near a medical library, I can give you the citation for Dr. Kligman's original paper in which he and his partner (Dr. Walter B. Shelley MD, PhD) thoroughly tested that theory. The paper is about 30 pages long, and they tested the theory in EVERY conceivable way; they thought of possible ways to argue against their findings, then thought of additional ways to test the "feedback theory" (that's the idea that the body produces more sebum when you wash it off the surface of the skin). The study is long and involved, but you'll learn a hell of a lot about how sebaceous glands work, if you take the trouble to study it!

Since then, other people have supported Dr. Kligman's and Dr. Shelley's findings; the poster "LabGirl81" (she used to post here a while back) worked for a cosmetics company that did a similar test of the "feedback theory", using both Sebutape and electronic devices that measure sebum output; they got the SAME results as Drs. Kligman and Shelley!!

I also did my own personal test, using Sebutape Skin Indicators (if you want to read the post I did of it, I'll "bump" it up for you); the results were EXACTLY the same as obtained by Kligman and Shelley.

There were also other studies by doctors which obtained the same results in other areas of the body; one of those was on the scalp, which showed no difference in sebum secretion when washed vigorously every day, or not washed at all.

Keyword: THEORY .. of the articles I found online (which I'm sure is limited) relating to his tests on sebum, one was written late 50's, one 63', and the latest I found was published in 1983'... that's still 30 years ago. Not discounting old science here.. just a little bit lol

So I'm not too ready to jump on that bandwagon yet...

But hey I'll keep an open mind- I'm not opposed to learning something new. But right now my own results conflict with Dr. Kligmans theory. So- I'll chew on that for a while

Cheers

Keyword: THEORY .. of the articles I found online (which I'm sure is limited) relating to his tests on sebum, one was written late 50's, one 63', and the latest I found was published in 1983'... that's still 30 years ago. Not discounting old science here.. just a little bit lol

Kligman and Shelley's original paper was indeed written in 1958, so I'm sure that's the correct one you have there. It has a TON of terrific information in it, so you need to read the whole thing very carefully!

I'm not sure about the other two from 1963 and 1983, though. Can you specify their names and other publication details, so I can try to get an idea if I've already read them?

But hey I'll keep an open mind- I'm not opposed to learning something new. But right now my own results conflict with Dr. Kligmans theory. So- I'll chew on that for a while

I'm not completely sure how you decided that your own results "conflict with Dr. Kligman's theory". What I want you to do is TEST IT YOURSELF, just as I did on my own skin. All you need is a reliable way to measure sebum output on your skin; the best and cheapest way to do that is by using Sebutape Skin Indicators. If you're interested in doing all this scientifically, I can tell you how to get them, and how to use them. The last time I checked, they cost about 40 dollars for a roll of 100 Skin Indicators, which means they're about 40 cents apiece. I used about a dozen of them when I did my test a few years ago. Want to give it a try yourself??

bryan,

These are the articles I came across, but only one was actually authored by Kligman- the other two just referenced a lot of his work.

----"Sebum Secretion and Sebaceous Lipids", Stewart

et al, Dermatologic Clinics -- Vol. 1, No. 3, July 1983

----Ebling, F. J.: Hormonal control of the sebaceous gland in experimental animals, p. 200, Advances in Biology of Skin, Vol. 4. Eds.: Montagna, W., Ellis, R. A. and Silver, A. F. Oxford, Pergamon Press, 1963.

----"The Experimental Production of Acne by Penta- and Hexachloronaphthalenes"

WALTER B. SHELLEY, M.D., Ph.D.; ALBERT M. KLIGMAN, M.D., Ph.D. -May 1957;75

I'll just conclude with this- we know that the sebaceous follicles can get damaged, right?- and when they get damaged they are weakened. Weak follicles release sebum into the surrounding tissue. And I'm not pulling this out of my butt, it was in a medical dictionary.

So perhaps a select number of people who get sunburned, or those same select few who are too rough on their skin from over-washing-- are actually damaging these follicles- which in turn allows the sebum to pass easier- therefore more noticeable to the unaided eye.

But that wasn't the issue really.. we were debating: "Does over-washing actually produce more sebum?"

That has clearly not been proven on my end.. but could over-washing give sebum and easier voyage to the outside of our face?; thus appearing to make our skin more oily? I think so. Think about it: if our faces are completely clean and clear after washing, with no obstructions in the pores like dead skin cells or dirt, it would be easier for the oil to pass- which again- would give way to more oil. Perhaps the reason why we see more oil after washing is because a) are faces can actually breath and b) we've weakened our sebaceous follicles.

I hope that made some sense.

Oops! You fooled me with those studies! The one from 1983 I may have already read, but not the one from 1963. But the one from 1957 is definitely NOT the famous one I was talking about! This is the full citation of the one that disproved the 'feedback theory': "An Investigation of the Biology of the Human Sebaceous Gland", Albert M. Kligman, MD, PhD and Walter B. Shelley, MD, PhD. Journal of Investigative Dermatology, 30: 99-124, 1958.