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JayQ

Male Hormonal mouth/chin acne

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I am hoping some of you can share some insight on this because this stuff just confuses me. My face tends to go periods of getting really oily with more breakouts when i workout at the gym or my sexual drive increases. Now i have stopped working out lifting weights in the past and i still broke out, this is what confuses me.

I will always start to be clear one week then the next week i will start breaking out. The most common factor is when my skin starts to produce more oil though. I keep reading that high levels of testosterone coverting into DHT is the cause for this, but the other main common symptom is baldness in which i have never had. I still have all my hair. Could high levels of testosterone coverting into DHT still be a factor without the effects of baldness and just acne?

Would Saw Palmetto be something to try? I have always red mixed reviews on this and never have tried it. I just want to be able to workout at the gym without having to worry about breaking out and oil increasing. Of course i am not sure if this is the reason or not, but i am 2x as oily today before i worked out for 2 hours yesterday and i am getting whiteheads forming today on chin. When i say oily i mean my whole Tzone and cheeks. My main breakouts are on chin, nostrils, and mouth.

Please share your experiences with trying Saw Palmetto or anything else males have tried for success and also your thoughts on this whole hormonal mess. BCP is out of the question because my doc already said it was, he does not prescribe that to males. I really would not ever want to take that anyway for fear of growing breasts and becoming sterile. There just isn't anything else i can see that a male can take.

Edited by JayQ
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Take a look at this oooold thread, particularly the long post by SweetJade

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/hormonal-acne-t76539.html ://http://www.acne.org/messageboard/ho...t76539.html

Hormonal interactions are ridiculously complicated, and like SweetJade mentions - the options for men as far as antiandrogenic therapy are limited and have unacceptable side effects in my opinion. It's worse for men because our sex hormones and the interactions between them aren't as predictable as they are with women. They've had a lot more research, lots of public data with the use of the birth control pill, and have periodic cycles with clear causes/effects and divisions. Men, have none of that. The only real research has been on increasing androgens for the purpose of muscle building, and even that is shoddy at best because anabolic steroids use for bodybuilding became illegal. There's been some progress on DHT because of hair loss, but it hasn't gone anywhere conclusive and enlightening (yet).

The dillemma between doing things that increase testosterone and things that will aggravate acne is something I think a lot of the guys on this board face. Even if hormones are causing excess sebum, killing p. acnes and keeping dead skin from blocking the pores should still prevent acne. I'd rather keep my testosterone up so I can (hopefully) keep building muscle, and for all the other good things it does. Honestly, as much as I try to be an educated consumer, I think messing with hormones using exogenous compounds (natural or not) is a minefield, so i just stay the hell away.

Saw palmetto has good evidence behind it as far as treating BPH (benign prostatic hypertrophy), but while it follows logically, the evidence for reducing hair loss has been slim to none. The side effects are usually mild, but do involve perceived "devirilizing" effects, like lower sexual desire, semen volume, sexual performance, and gynecomastia... all things which make a lot of guys run in the other direction. Finasteride (propecia) works on a similar principle, and has similar side effects... but is likely more effective and better understood.

I think a topical would be safe - very unlikely to have adverse affects (especially if you're working out and eating a lot). Definitely tell your doctor before you start.

Options I know of include:

Progesterone cream - lots of threads on this on acne.org

Peppermint oil/extract - I kind of sort of use this, but it is supposedly also irritating. Some threads on this too.

Clove oil - I use clove tea in my toner, though it is also a known irritant. I initially started using it because its also a strong antibacterial/antifungal.

Licorice extract - NOT the licochalcone portion that Dan uses, but the glycyrrhizin and other similar compounds in the raw extract.

Ketoconazole - Probably part of the reason why so many ppl see success with Nizoral for bacne. For your face, I would use a leave-on antifungal cream with ketoconazole, though it may be prescription only.

Gluck! I'd love to see how it goes if you do experiment.

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Oh, and I forgot to say...it's absolutely possible for you to have "hormonal" acne and not be balding. Male pattern baldness is caused by the hypersensitivity of some areas of hair on the head to DHT, not strictly by DHT itself. Most of this follicular susceptibility is genetic, and probably completely unrelated to the incidence of acne.

Not to mention, there's lots of hormonal imbalances other than those involving androgens. Check out that thread link above - really informative.

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Take a look at this oooold thread, particularly the long post by SweetJade

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/hormonal-acne-t76539.html ://http://www.acne.org/messageboard/ho...t76539.html ://http://www.acne.org/messageboard/ho...t76539.html

Hormonal interactions are ridiculously complicated, and like SweetJade mentions - the options for men as far as antiandrogenic therapy are limited and have unacceptable side effects in my opinion. It's worse for men because our sex hormones and the interactions between them aren't as predictable as they are with women. They've had a lot more research, lots of public data with the use of the birth control pill, and have periodic cycles with clear causes/effects and divisions. Men, have none of that. The only real research has been on increasing androgens for the purpose of muscle building, and even that is shoddy at best because anabolic steroids use for bodybuilding became illegal. There's been some progress on DHT because of hair loss, but it hasn't gone anywhere conclusive and enlightening (yet).

The dillemma between doing things that increase testosterone and things that will aggravate acne is something I think a lot of the guys on this board face. Even if hormones are causing excess sebum, killing p. acnes and keeping dead skin from blocking the pores should still prevent acne. I'd rather keep my testosterone up so I can (hopefully) keep building muscle, and for all the other good things it does. Honestly, as much as I try to be an educated consumer, I think messing with hormones using exogenous compounds (natural or not) is a minefield, so i just stay the hell away.

Saw palmetto has good evidence behind it as far as treating BPH (benign prostatic hypertrophy), but while it follows logically, the evidence for reducing hair loss has been slim to none. The side effects are usually mild, but do involve perceived "devirilizing" effects, like lower sexual desire, semen volume, sexual performance, and gynecomastia... all things which make a lot of guys run in the other direction. Finasteride (propecia) works on a similar principle, and has similar side effects... but is likely more effective and better understood.

I think a topical would be safe - very unlikely to have adverse affects (especially if you're working out and eating a lot). Definitely tell your doctor before you start.

Options I know of include:

Progesterone cream - lots of threads on this on acne.org

Peppermint oil/extract - I kind of sort of use this, but it is supposedly also irritating. Some threads on this too.

Clove oil - I use clove tea in my toner, though it is also a known irritant. I initially started using it because its also a strong antibacterial/antifungal.

Licorice extract - NOT the licochalcone portion that Dan uses, but the glycyrrhizin and other similar compounds in the raw extract.

Ketoconazole - Probably part of the reason why so many ppl see success with Nizoral for bacne. For your face, I would use a leave-on antifungal cream with ketoconazole, though it may be prescription only.

Gluck! I'd love to see how it goes if you do experiment.

Hey thanks for the response!

Ya i have came came across and read that thread in my endless search on google to try and find info for this crap :S.

Isn't progesterone cream only used for estrogen dominance in women though? Not a thing for males to be concerned with since we are testosterone driven.

I did just start using Nizoral 1% all over my face in shower leaving it on for a couple of mins each time. Been doing that for just about a week now so way to early to tell if that is going to work or not. Right now i am breaking out.

I am still being seen for my thyroid problem, but my endo said it has no correlation to my acne. So who knows. I actually go to see him tomorrow, i am going to inquire to see if perhaps i can get my testosterone levels checked too.

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Progesterone isn't only used for estrogen dominance, and it really isn't a "female" hormone. Hormones are so freaking complicated. But pop culture seems to have separated them into neat little categories that don't reflect their real biological interactions at all 0_O. Makes my head hurt :wall:

Anyway, the reason it might be useful for acne is that it inhibits 5-alpha-reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT. This is also true for most other actives thought to reduce DHT levels.

Progesterone supplementation is actually recommended for older men for a variety of reasons :P

Edited by greentiger87
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What about trying out Azelaic acid for my chin acne? I am thinking about making an appt tomorrow and talking to my doc to see if i can try this out. I have read good things about it and since they think it could be folliculitis/acne, ive read that Azelaic acid reduces the growth of bacteria in the follicle (Propionibacterium acnes and Staphylococcus epidermidis.) As well as blocking DHT where applied.

So it seems promising. Thoughts? Suggestions?

It is also known to be less irritating than BP, and i tried a BP or Benzaclin regimen and to much BP use causes my skin to get more irritated

Edited by JayQ
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What about trying out Azelaic acid for my chin acne? I am thinking about making an appt tomorrow and talking to my doc to see if i can try this out. I have read good things about it and since they think it could be folliculitis/acne, ive read that Azelaic acid reduces the growth of bacteria in the follicle (Propionibacterium acnes and Staphylococcus epidermidis.) As well as blocking DHT where applied.

So it seems promising. Thoughts? Suggestions?

It is also known to be less irritating than BP, and i tried a BP or Benzaclin regimen and to much BP use causes my skin to get more irritated

I used to get cystic acne on my chin. I have been using Finacea (15% Azelaic acid) for the last month and a half and have seen dramatic results. Not only does it work incredibly well on mild to moderate acne, it really helps deal with cystic acne. Highly recommend you try it. Not to mention Finacea (along with other Azelaic acid based topicals) have no initial breakout or increased sensitivity to the sun.

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What about trying out Azelaic acid for my chin acne? I am thinking about making an appt tomorrow and talking to my doc to see if i can try this out. I have read good things about it and since they think it could be folliculitis/acne, ive read that Azelaic acid reduces the growth of bacteria in the follicle (Propionibacterium acnes and Staphylococcus epidermidis.) As well as blocking DHT where applied.

So it seems promising. Thoughts? Suggestions?

It is also known to be less irritating than BP, and i tried a BP or Benzaclin regimen and to much BP use causes my skin to get more irritated

I used to get cystic acne on my chin. I have been using Finacea (15% Azelaic acid) for the last month and a half and have seen dramatic results. Not only does it work incredibly well on mild to moderate acne, it really helps deal with cystic acne. Highly recommend you try it. Not to mention Finacea (along with other Azelaic acid based topicals) have no initial breakout or increased sensitivity to the sun.

That is awesome dude, i am glad to hear it is working for you and experienced the same crap i am. Do you have any before and after pics? What did u try before?

Edited by JayQ
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What about trying out Azelaic acid for my chin acne? I am thinking about making an appt tomorrow and talking to my doc to see if i can try this out. I have read good things about it and since they think it could be folliculitis/acne, ive read that Azelaic acid reduces the growth of bacteria in the follicle (Propionibacterium acnes and Staphylococcus epidermidis.) As well as blocking DHT where applied.

So it seems promising. Thoughts? Suggestions?

It is also known to be less irritating than BP, and i tried a BP or Benzaclin regimen and to much BP use causes my skin to get more irritated

I used to get cystic acne on my chin. I have been using Finacea (15% Azelaic acid) for the last month and a half and have seen dramatic results. Not only does it work incredibly well on mild to moderate acne, it really helps deal with cystic acne. Highly recommend you try it. Not to mention Finacea (along with other Azelaic acid based topicals) have no initial breakout or increased sensitivity to the sun.

That is awesome dude, i am glad to hear it is working for you and experienced the same crap i am. Do you have any before and after pics? What did u try before?

I don't have any before pics but I could put up a pic of my skin now. Basically before I tried finacea, I tried just about all of the over the counter treatments along with a few prescriptions including Ziana, Doryx, Retina A, Differin, and Tazorac. Finacea is the first thing that has actually worked for me.

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I've heard great things about Azelaic too.. but the DHT inhibition is bunk I think. Those studies were in vitro only, and hasn't been borne out in vivo. But if it clears your acne, who cares?

Good luck!

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