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Spontaneous Scarring Condition - AMVC - Atrophia Maculosa Varioliformis Cutis - Pitted Scars Suddenly Appearing - Not Acne

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1 hour ago, Ouhon said:

4 weeks after my 6th dermarolling session, i saw a few new boxcar appearing out of the blue, never happened to me before. so depressed right now...


At least there was a reason and it over. How frustrating do you think it is if they are just coming without doing anything. No accutane no exfoliation no chemicals no new food no new activities not a single other symptom. Just appearing overnight..
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On 10/10/2017 at 4:38 PM, Jollyhohnson said:

I agree with arte90 - these are probably pre-existing scars that have only now become visible. I've had scars that have suddenly appeared out of nowhere - funnily enough a few days after I had spent a long day in the sun. It's possible it's caused by ageing and time, but also by dehydration of the skin. I found that by using a hydrating moisturiser my overall skin tone improved and these scars smoothed out. I imagine they're still there, but I can't see them now. If it helps, I agree that your scars are very minimal - I can't even see them in the first photo. Remember that you will notice them far more than anyone else ever does.

Boafriend - I'm not saying that spontaneous scarring doesn't happen. I'm not medical expert after all, and in no position to assess other people's experiences. But if it is a very rare condition, then it is more likely that it wasn't random and existed previously.

I’ve also been getting random scarring recently, along with super noticeable lines on my face, almost wrinkle like. My skin has gotten extremely oily and I just have such an uneven texture— my skin used to be flawless. Could this be due to dehydration? 
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On 28/05/2018 at 8:11 PM, SLSL said:

I've had this same problem since joining this site 6 (?) years ago. I've had periods of remission where they stop appearing. But currently it's a constant on & off thing. I went from baby butt smooth skin to moderate scarring all over my face. It's disheartening... I used to model. I haven't tried anything to treat them as of yet, but they're all not deep for the most part, so I'm hoping to get them where they're all barely noticeable. What used to help me keep them from appearing was taking antihistamines. I don't know the science behind why this helped, but it did. Staying away from my allergies helps. I notice more scarring activity when I have periods of sneezing/allergies. I also took an omega 6 (Evening Primrose Oil) & stayed away from omega 3. Now I eat an avocado every day & it seems to slow the acitivity down as well as keeping my acne at bay.


I don't understand. I have been taking antihistamine for 3 months, Evening Primrose Oil for 5 months and stayed away from omega 3 anf nothing has helped. 
Now my whole face is covered by scars. They widen, go deeper and connect with each other. Like my skin is eaten. I have not been able to even stabilize the scarring. 
I have had 0 acne nor inflammation, but the doctors I went to didn't believe that my scars were appearing out of nowhere. Yet, the scars are visible and my whole face has now a really weird appearance. Everyone notices it but the doctors seem to ignore it as they don't know about this "disorder". 

At this point I feel desperate. blood tests seemed fine. 

I was staying away from avocado because it contains a lot of omega 3. 

But what you are saying, is that it never goes away ? 



On a side note, I found this. Definitely AMVC. The Indian lady has it also on her body. I got the scars everywhere on my whole body, but they are a lot more shallow and less noticable than those on my face. 

here the link : 
http://www.ijdvl.com/article.asp?issn=0378-6323;year=2012;volume=78;issue=2;spage=182;epage=185;aulast=Goyal

My case is really similar to that women. 
My skin is white so the scarring is kind of white-pink-ish tinted.
Figure 1: Well-defined, slightly pigmented varioliform pit like lesions on face of proband


  Edited by Kixhikari
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I finally found a picture showing the wider scars that I have. 
The guy on the picture suffers from AMVC too. I found it in the medical litterature. 
When I tried to describe it on that forum, people woudn't believe it. Yes, This kind of scar can happen overnight. 
I woke up a morning with them. 

Anyway... If someone can help, I would be verry happy... 

images.jpg.ae168a7c4f2fd41fe3eab04660328176.jpg

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It's a myth that avocados contain a lot of omega 3. They do not if you do some studying. They do contain mostly monounsaturated fats. I've been to all kinds of doctors about my condition, and yes, unfortunately none of them will believe that your scarring came out of nowhere. It's up to you to do some trial and error to see what helps and doesn't help. I would say treat your body as if you have an autoimmune disorder. My conclusion is that our skin is being tagged as a threat/microbe and attacked by antibodies. As people with the autoimmune disorder rheumatoid arthritis' joints get attacked; as people with multiple sclerosis' nerves get attacked, etc. They all have something in common... a virus laying within the body that goes in and out of remission. I think mine comes from yeast on the skin. But we need to address our immune system. Maybe take natural antivirals or antifungals (I haven't tried that yet but am going to, but there will be die-off symptoms aka things may get worse before they get better). Unfortunately, you're going to have to be your own doctor.

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On 10/11/2017 at 3:28 AM, boafriend said:
I respectfully disagree. I, as well as many members on here, have experienced spontaneous, random divots and pits form on the face without any prior damage or skin trauma. If the OP is experiencing scarring without any type of recent acne or severe cysts, she is in the same boat as me and many others.

Assuming your random scarring stops for good, you can look into typical treatments such as microneedling or RF microneedling to try improving the texture. If it doesn't stop....sorry. Medically, not much help is available. Many people believe it is AMVC, a supposed rare scarring disease with limited medical research to support it.

It could be spontaneous scarring but I believe applying occam's razor its probably pre-existing scars that you had. You did not notice them beforehand because they are very shallow and only visible if you actively look for it in a certain lighting. Take for example, examine your arms closely now you will notice you might have scars or moles you did not even know you had even though its been with you all the while.
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these random scarring really exists i suffered from this way back in 2016 november month 

it gave me 4 - 5 linear scars 
2-4 shallow pit boxcar like scars

but now they filled to some extent say upto 40%
but this random scarring and chicken pox scarring + scarred pores are summing up and making me low self esteemed

any one alone of them wouldnt have affected my life

and OP your scar are very minor nobody sees it except you and even you jusy try to look your face not your scars ..even you will not notice that

sorry for bad english

Edited by Anish004
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Politely disagree, a good, dedicated specialist will rule out everything he or she can to help you. This includes, iatrogenic scaring, scarring due to super rare condition such as lupus profundus, cuttaneuos lupus, scarring due to operator error, calibration of devices, technique, after care, and like you said unusual infections, including viruses that maybe beyond Polymer Chain Reaction detection, in addition to all the antigenic cross reaction reaction that we are only learning, and understanding. A good doctor will NEVER desert you, they will spend hours researching online, in publications, speaking at meetings and discussing with colleagues your case. They will help you psychologically and psychically, they will go to the end of the earth to help you..... unless you are are real [email protected]#T (Due respects, I am sure you are not). If you do not have that dedication from a specialist, find another. Wish you well. AMCV is a diagnosis based upon exclusion, bring this diagnosis to 99% of the plastics and dermatologist they will have to look it up. It is exceeding rare, but, it does exist. This community is based upon best guideline to help all patients, including rare conditions, -  not just common scars but it has to be based on science, and most importantly objectively. 

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I have a couple of friends who have these very shallow scars everywhere on their face (though never noticed before i got this condition) and they dont really know (nor do they care) where the heck they came from. It comforts me somehow and 2 of my friend have way more than I have developed so far. I always considered them as having great skin.

could it be that this is something that develops with most people usually as they are growing up to some extent as a normal skin phenomenon, but to people like us it happens to go out of control to some extent and eventually also stops ? Because i am becoming very sure this isnt really that rare its just that its so harmless it 99% goes unreported and even if it does get reported doctors wont take it seriously as in my case. I have been to 5 doctors in germany and all of them seem to tell me they are small and are probably from acne (which is 100% not true).

on this forum there are some really scary stories which make me nervous about myself. (I dont know if it is really as bad as descirbed) i have been having this for 2 months now and sometimes when looking into a certain mirror u can almost notice nothing, though under certain lightning it is definitely seeable.

if it stops anytime soon and even if the damage does not go I would be 100% satisfied and forget about all of this very soon. Whats keeping my hopes high is that in many cases this lasts 1-4 months and stops somehow. That would be great if it stops in the coming weeks.

this experience will have changed my whole perspective about my face. The mild to moderate acne i have is really nothing to worry about its harmless and no one cares. That hell of always not knowing how ur face will look next months with lifetime scars makes all my other problems seem harmless. I hope this will end soon..

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Please, tell us if it goes well in your case. 
In mine it's getting worse everyday and the process accelarate. 
It has been more than 6 months and it doesn't get better

To Obiwan, thank your for your kind messages. But if it's true, I haven't encounter a great doctor that can spend hours at night to search information about my weird disorder when coming home after his day at the hospital. 
Sadly, health care is free in France (the healthcare is directly taken care of by the State), therefore the service quality is extremely bad... 

I've been tested for alergies. I'm alergic to certain kind of food that I don't eat already + my rabbit. 
I've bean tested for antinuclears/ antibodies and came negative. 
As there are no signs of inflammation, the doctors I've seen don't know what to do. 

I wish someone on that forum that has the same disorder could eventually find a answer and the way to stop the process. 

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Just want to share my finding with spontaneous scarring, 2 days ago, due to some stress i wasn't able to sleep almost at all, maybe slept for 1-2 hours at most, woke up and got a scar that look like AA94 but 2 times longer. Something tell me that not getting enough sleep might give you scar. The next 2 days, i slept normally plus 2,3 naps that make around 10 hours of sleep a day and the scar went away by 70% and barely noticeable anymore.

I remembered i barely slept at all at night the last time i dermarolled for like weeks which might be the reason for some new scar to appear out of nowhere and my skin didnt heal well. Sleep is important peoples, your skin heal when you sleep. If you're gonna do something to your skin, make sure you will have no stress, anxiety, heartbreak or anything that make you lose sleep. Take a sleeping pill if needed to, learned my lesson. Anyway, just wanna tell you my story so we can discover more about this spontaneous scarring phenomenon.

Edited by Ouhon
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i have this amvc after accutane. i hate accutane so much. i hate the doctor who prescribe it to me when my acne wasn't severe before accutane.

the thing is i can't use any exfoliation products to treat existing scars. it will give me a new depressed scar. aha, acids, chemical peels, lasers.  anything that exfoliate or make e skin peel it will give me new depressed scars. im so depress. what should i do to help with my scaring?

i have order derminator. the thing is i tried dermastamping before. dermastamping make e skin dry and peel too. i caan't have any peeling on my face. cause it for sure will give me new scar. 
what should i do? help pls. im desperate.

Edited by bellei
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Goto a Dr please, ... you have a complicated situation. Your other issues must be addressed. They will most likey use a steroid and continue treatment. Most treatments without management of your underlying conditions will cause a immune reaction and more scars for you. You can try subsicion and filler, ... for energy and exfoliation techniques can exacerbate the issue. Some of auto-immune like conditions where they do not heal properly. PRP or PRF injections might also be beneficial but I would not do harsh treatments when you have this condition. There is another post if you search AMVC here on the forums. The person got scars from doing everything it seemed. If you don't find it try Google.

BA

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AMVC brought up in many many meetings in the UK, including the RSM. No one in the right mind would treat a patient with spontaneous scars with a high or even medium powered modality. If you see reports online this condition can 'supposedly' be worsened with even the most banal lasers such as dermal toning with Q switch, or even LONG pulse duration vascular lasers. Hence, my advice, see a dermatologist - get a firm diagnosis, do not do energy devices, use HAs with minimal trauma, and keep follow ups with documentation and photography. You need someone conservative, you need photos, your mind needs to be in a good place. I wish you well. 

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Been in Roa 5 times. Skin became very thin very fragile, any tiny spot leaves a mark or tiny scar, the healing became very slow. Roa in the end helped to keep acne under control but aside effects. Plus lasers later(a big mistake!) plus aging process... bad but better then cysts... 

It seems that with aging all the scars even shallow ones which were not obvious before start to reappear due to aging sagging skin((( for people with scars aging is going to be very difficult( 

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A lot of people on this forum have reported it, and I think the best bet we have of figuring out what the hell is causing this is to pool our acne treatment histories and diet/other possibly related choices. 

A lot of people on this forum have brought up "AMVC," which is supposedly "rare." Whatever it is, I think it's pretty clearly linked to acne sufferers somehow, considering the prevalence of the complaint on here (and some other acne forums as well). 

I'm 33 and have had acne since I was around 15. My face has been under siege by spontaneous scars since early this year - often in places where I never even have had acne - and in reading other acne sufferers' accounts and viewing their pictures (which sound and look similar to what I have experienced), I have begun trying to figure out what the link is.

Let me first state that I have never done Accutane. I have seen some people suggest that Accutane is the cause of it, but given my history, I doubt that.

Perhaps it's from long term benzoyl peroxide use? I don't know whether it's the benzoyl peroxide itself causing collagen to disintegrate, or merely the way it disrupts bacteria on the skin, and those bacteria in turn attacking collagen, or something along those lines.

It's also interesting to read people talking about how they suspect fish oil supplements caused it. I have been eating a ton of salmon in the last year, so maybe there is some kind of link there? Then again, I doubt the amount of salmon I have eaten is a particularly high dose of whatever would hypothetically be the culprit.

Regardless of what it is, I think it's pretty clear that doctors don't have a clue. If you show a doctor this, they just go, "hurr durr, dose are acne scarzzz, hurr durr." Yeah, those long, linear scars that appear SUDDENLY, which are often in areas where I never even had acne, are from acne. 

Waking up one morning with a long, curved, faint indentation under one of my eyes that has never faded in the slightest..."acne scar."

 

Edited by jordan12
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I don't think it is a mystery at all. You can have acne without it being visible. That is, you can have inflammatory bumps that are small and deep enough in the skin for them to not be visible from the outside. At first, you may not notice a scar has formed, but when you get older and your skin starts to sag or you lose some of your baby fat, the scar becomes visible. Mystery solved. 

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I think @arte90 is onto something. Acne is caused by bacteria and inflammation. When the inflammation does not subside the body makes pimples, cysts, bumps, and lumps of white blood cells - aka pus. The acne scar patients are more susceptible to bacterial infection, p-acnes is bacteria. In certain suffer's their scarring has a component of auto-immune disease where the body is continually fighting bacteria, ... lookup lupus/herpes&hpv(viral)/arthritis/staph/fungal acne, allergy reaction, auto-immune (Causing scarring), over usage of anti-biotics and gut issues causing acne / scars, environmental (chemicals and toxins) causing scars - including topical products as you mentioned and their over usage, diet, genetics, over usage of steroid "there is steroid acne and scarring," Aging causes fat and bone loss, acne scar suffers get this quicker with over treatment or their body dissolving fat and making scar tissue so we get HA filler.

This is much more complicated than simply p-acnes causing acne and scarring, Benz Peroxide is bleach, Retin-A/Tretinorin is vitamin A, steroids lower immunity while making inflammation subcide. Toxic liver / gut can cause issues as well. 

Our skin is a reflection of our inner health and vitality, ... when the body is not happy it pimples and scars. 

On a natural side look for antioxidants that cause inflammation of the body to go down, and boost the immune system. Probiotics are also important and gut health. 

I do agree with you physicians-specifically western medicine know next to nothing about this subject, as they fix a symptom not the root cause, they consider it a aesthetics issue not a health concern. Eastern medicine looks at inflammation and imblances, but even that can fail. 

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Most dermatologist will have to look this up in Rook or another text book. Only a few reported cases, especially in Middle Eastern women - I agree its more common than reported. 

1. A normal dermatologist will not know about this real condition
2 A good scar revision specialist would give you the answer ; " We/ I don't know what causes this..." 
3. This can be treated. Atrophic areas can be treated with v conservative Co2 laser coupled with vvv supernal dermal subcision with HA fillers . 
4. What causes this is still unknown. Cresenteric scar may suggest scratching at night as it fits the nails. This is not proven.... adds to the unknown. An expert will tell you the truth... ' they have NFI". 
5. First reported in the 70s - I am sure someone will figure the pathology in the next decade 
Good topic to bring up .....

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19 hours ago, arte90 said:

I don't think it is a mystery at all. You can have acne without it being visible. That is, you can have inflammatory bumps that are small and deep enough in the skin for them to not be visible from the outside. At first, you may not notice a scar has formed, but when you get older and your skin starts to sag or you lose some of your baby fat, the scar becomes visible. Mystery solved. 




I don't buy it. These scars - in my case, and I believe in other people's as well - are appearing literally overnight. Sometimes in the span of an hour or so during the day. I'll look in the mirror in the morning and nothing new is going on. Return an hour later..."WTF is that?" And "that' turns out to be a new, linear, indented scar. 
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17 hours ago, jordan12 said:

This happened to me a lot. The more im fighting the scars,  the more new ones appear, then it's all over again.  Maybe its the way the body distributes collagen? Takes from one area and moves to the other. 

I don't buy it. These scars - in my case, and I believe in other people's as well - are appearing literally overnight. Sometimes in the span of an hour or so during the day. I'll look in the mirror in the morning and nothing new is going on. Return an hour later..."WTF is that?" And "that' turns out to be a new, linear, indented scar. 
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Warning: Long essay ahead

 

OP, I’m sorry you are dealing with this. I have been suffering from this supposed AMVC since 2013. And like some have mentioned on here, have gone through remission on and off. 2013 was pure hell...when I first noticed the scarring, a new scar would form everyday. Literally everyday, and it progressed for 3 months or so. The worst I expeirenced was a linear indented line on my left cheek (which oddly enough, eventually, half a year or so later, completely vanished on its own). I symphatize with everyone suffering on here.

 

I’ve gone through dermatologists, allergists, and the works. Hopeless. I will go ahead and say that the dermatologsts are the worst - majority will tell you what you are experiencing is not physically possible and they will suggest some form of topical vitamin A and some anti-acne medication. Fucking useless.

 

Through the years, the only gleaming insight I have gotten is that a rheumatologist found consistent presence of an unknown anti-body through blood tests, but he could not pinpoint exactly what it was. Also, one allergist noted that I have a delayed reaction in my skin from, for instance, when a pen is scratched on me. The line will stay a long time before disappearing. He mentioned I could take anti-histamines, which I did for a few weeks, but they made no difference. Also by that time, the scarring was not a daily occurance, so it was hard to judge its efficacy (mind you also, I’m not going to take anti-histamines for such an extended period of time just to observe. I’m not comfortable with taking so many drugs for so long).

 

Since 2013, I have had tiny divots and some pockmarks form randomly. My overall cheek, temple, and chin texture is very orange peel-like and unsightly (only noticeable very up close or under direct sunlight and/or harsh lighting). But I’ve gone into panic mode recently cuz a 1in-long wrinkle looking line formed on my right cheek, near about where a smile line would be (it is NOT a wrinkle, though. The texture is telling that it is a scar). I needled it with my Derminator from OwnDoc but have not noticed it going away. In the past, I’ve had small linear lines form near my eye/eyebrow and nasion area (triangle space between your eyebrows and eyes, beginning of your nose bridge) and have made this fade away on their own quickly with some mild needling. Right now...I am just hoping this newer line fades away on its own. I had a linear crease form from my left eyebrow upwards, looking like one of those “11” frown lines (only it was not). Strange thing is that that particular scar sometimes smooths out and sometimes deepens on its own. Weird as hell.

 

Has anyone here found success an immunologist? I’ve seen in the AMVC and other smaller related threads on here that an immunologist has been recommended as a solution. It appears aside from the big omega 3/6 imbalance theory here, others believe this is all rooted in some sort of viral infection or gut imbalance.

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Been following these threads for a while as I have had the same issue over the past 5-6 years. Does anyone else have pain in their cheeks with the random scarring? I was diagnosed with Rosacea about 3 years ago which I thought was the final answer to this mystery but sadly I have tried every Rosacea lotions and potions nicazel forte etc etc and still get random scarring and redness. I recently went on a course of low dose accutane for 9 months which didn't seem to do much other than clear up a few blackheads and stop any acne caused by Rosacea. I have noticed the random scarring get even worst again after the 2nd course of accutane. Interesting so many ppl have the same issue but no answers and these threads all kind of just die out.

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On 11/8/2018 at 6:27 AM, Thatkaid said:

Been following these threads for a while as I have had the same issue over the past 5-6 years. Does anyone else have pain in their cheeks with the random scarring? I was diagnosed with Rosacea about 3 years ago which I thought was the final answer to this mystery but sadly I have tried every Rosacea lotions and potions nicazel forte etc etc and still get random scarring and redness. I recently went on a course of low dose accutane for 9 months which didn't seem to do much other than clear up a few blackheads and stop any acne caused by Rosacea. I have noticed the random scarring get even worst again after the 2nd course of accutane. Interesting so many ppl have the same issue but no answers and these threads all kind of just die out.

I’ve never felt pain on my skin but have had twitching/prickling sensations on and off (on my face and scalp) that started a month or so after my random scarring did. Continues to this day (5 years now) to no avail from doctors across multiple specialties and fields.

I’ve never taken accutane before but yea, there sadly seems to be a pattern from users on here suffering from random scarring after rounds of accutane. I consumed a ton of fish in the 2-3 months before my scarring started, but there seems to be no real, studied medical connection.

I do want to say that those who come into this thread criticizing those suffering...you guys have no idea the trauma of this issue. Of course we’ve gone to dermatologists and doctors - they are of no help. I also don’t believe AMVC to be as rare as people make it - it’s uncommon, but has definitely been undiagnosed for sure. From people on this thread, it seems there are drug and dietary triggers. Above all, there needs to be a push from us to the medical and dermalogical world for research and study into this. Doctors can’t help us because they don’t know anytjing about AMVC aside from the small research that has been done. Most dermatologists I’ve gone to have never even heard of AMVC. I know autoimmune disorders are hard to treat (some uncurable), but there has to be a push at least to get a start on looking into this thing.
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I now know what caused my spontaneus scarring. It was the cream Terproline. I am 100% sure of this. I have done test patches on my forehead a few times and I have always gotten a shallow linear scar. My brother who also used the cream, he also got the same kind of scarring.

I did a few posts about my scaring like 7-8 years ago in this thread. You can find a few pictures of the scars i believe also. 

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