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jordan12

Anyone else get the feeling...

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i still suspect its altered fat metabolism to save our heart, to save us from having a heart attack. That would make biological sense of the disease since its so wide spread, instead of some freak defect we could all have the same genetic defect? I think its in our evolutionary heritage and how our bodies have adapted to high fat diets.

If our hdl levels(apolipoprotein a1) worked properly we would flush out excess fat through our liver to escape through bowel movements, but we cant so we excrete it through our sebum glands.

I think this theory makes the most sense of anything ive ever heard, and i came up with it myself, kinda. Could be totally wrong as well.

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Honestly, though, I think acne has one primary cause...one cause that is almost entirely reponsible for all breakouts in most cases. I don't buy the idea that "everyone is different" anymore. I don't see any reason for there to be 10,000,000 things that can cause acne in different individuals...only to find that in some cultures, almost nobody ever gets acne.

There may be a variety of factors that play into whatever the actual underlying cause is...but there has to be one thing that is creating this inflammation in some people and not in others.

The most common link seems to be that most people first get acne around the time they hit puberty. Whether it's actually DURING puberty (how we exactly define when someone is actually IN full-blown puberty, I don't know) may depend...but it takes place with a usual minimum age of 12 or so.

I'm sure there are some rare exceptions of people who don't get acne until their 20's or even later...but, by and large, it seems to be that most of us here, regardless of age, first got it in our teens.

So the million dollar question is--what IS it that changes at that point that causes us to get acne? As I said earier, I'm not buying "increased oil production" as the triggering mechanism.

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Pantothenic acid...oily skin....acne....WOW thank you for posting that hypothesis.

Should I start taking supplementary pantothenic acid? I'm way less skeptical about this new study than I am about the fish oil I'm currently taking.

..wait a second, I just rememebrd that P.A. is b5...and people have been using that method already

um...so then yeah, will omega 3 and b5 make a good team? or would it be bad to have both at once?

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Pantothenic acid...oily skin....acne....WOW thank you for posting that hypothesis.

Should I start taking supplementary pantothenic acid? I'm way less skeptical about this new study than I am about the fish oil I'm currently taking.

..wait a second, I just rememebrd that P.A. is b5...and people have been using that method already

um...so then yeah, will omega 3 and b5 make a good team? or would it be bad to have both at once?

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Im not saying any of this is cracked man, dont you know how to think creativly its how scientists come up with wacked out theories to try and explain phenomena, none of it is true dude and yes I may be making some broad connections But think of electrcity and magnetism, the two eventually were combined as electromagnetism nobody ever thought they were connected until someone came up with a theory of how they thought they MIGHT be connected then they were able to eventually come up with demonstrations(experiments to test the theory, and prove their relationship with one another. So it is sort of similar.

I know its hard for you to see any connection, im looking at all these studies and coming up with a theory to link all of it together. well at least try anyway. Its all theory man of course its not truth until i can actually conduct studies, its all possible conclusions not 100% probable conclusions.

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The reason there is no known cause for acne is because drug companies and scientists simply do not care about acne. When people talk about acne, they simply think "oh it is just acne." This kind of attitude stops most people from caring and simply releasing the same products over and over. Don't you wonder why there are so little topical or ever new treatments available? They refuse to put much effort into this field.

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now i was just thinking, someone said that the sebum gland doesnt get its material from exogenous fat, but isnt everything we're made out of fundamentally exogenous?? where the heck else would the building blocks come from...defies the laws of thermodynamics lol. back in my high school dieting days i never had acne....then came uni and the whole freshamn 15, i hate soo much and my acne exploded....this probably brought to light my genetic dispositions of course... and b5 works AMAZING for me, i still eat so much CRAP (poor will power i guess) and my face stays sooo dry and i havent had an inflamed spot in 6 weeks (same time i started b5). i no longer get the "afternoon slick". also i am on diane 35, the cytoproterone acts as an androgen angonsist and the estradiol controls androgen levels via the pituitary, integrating with the b5 theory, this leaves more co-enzyme a for fat metabolism. anyways, a lot of research does go into acne, cuz anything to do wth aesthetics is quite lucritive... but how would pharmaceutical/corporate/government organizations make money if they told us we just had to eat raw, fresh, organic food? anyways, autonomous one, check out freeacnebook.com. there's alot of interesting stuff regarding cooked protein and cooked fat/cholesteral and its relationship with the liver, hdl/ldl and acne versus non-cooked, "clean" fat and protein. i think u have andorgen sensitivity, try b5 for oil and saw palmetto for all those pesky androgen receptors (it's an androgen agonist) . 10 grms of b5 (or 900mg of pantothene) taken in intervals to maintain a constant conc. will be soo much more effective than fish oil, the results i got from fish oil were never as dramatic or distinguishable as b5/diane 35. in fact, statistically, id guess whatever improvment i saw with fish oil was by chance. perhaps cuz i ate so much non dha/epa fat and the conversion of omega 6 and omega 3 to epa/dha relies much on probability, ur results would be greater if ur only fat source was epa/dha but then it could just be the there's enough co-enzyme a to metabolize the little amount of fat. anyways, as i said, b5 does help convert fat to epa/dha and it regulates cortisol and androgen synthesis in the kidneys.

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now i was just thinking, someone said that the sebum gland doesnt get its material from exogenous fat, but isnt everything we're made out of fundamentally exogenous?? where the heck else would the building blocks come from...defies the laws of thermodynamics lol. back in my high school dieting days i never had acne....then came uni and the whole freshamn 15, i hate soo much and my acne exploded....this probably brought to light my genetic dispositions of course... and b5 works AMAZING for me, i still eat so much CRAP (poor will power i guess) and my face stays sooo dry and i havent had an inflamed spot in 6 weeks (same time i started b5). i no longer get the "afternoon slick". also i am on diane 35, the cytoproterone acts as an androgen angonsist and the estradiol controls androgen levels via the pituitary, integrating with the b5 theory, this leaves more co-enzyme a for fat metabolism. anyways, a lot of research does go into acne, cuz anything to do wth aesthetics is quite lucritive... but how would pharmaceutical/corporate/government organizations make money if they told us we just had to eat raw, fresh, organic food? anyways, autonomous one, check out freeacnebook.com. there's alot of interesting stuff regarding cooked protein and cooked fat/cholesteral and its relationship with the liver, hdl/ldl and acne versus non-cooked, "clean" fat and protein. i think u have andorgen sensitivity, try b5 for oil and saw palmetto for all those pesky androgen receptors (it's an androgen agonist) . 10 grms of b5 (or 900mg of pantothene) taken in intervals to maintain a constant conc. will be soo much more effective than fish oil, the results i got from fish oil were never as dramatic or distinguishable as b5/diane 35. in fact, statistically, id guess whatever improvment i saw with fish oil was by chance. perhaps cuz i ate so much non dha/epa fat and the conversion of omega 6 and omega 3 to epa/dha relies much on probability, ur results would be greater if ur only fat source was epa/dha but then it could just be the there's enough co-enzyme a to metabolize the little amount of fat. anyways, as i said, b5 does help convert fat to epa/dha and it regulates cortisol and androgen synthesis in the kidneys.

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I don't understand how B5 is suppose to work, it's suppose to be a building block of Keratin and acne is a problem of hyper-keratinisation - excess of keratin.

By the way, I've noticed that my hair grow back much quicker than a normal person would - anybody have this problem? (hyper-keratinisation of the hair?)

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I don't understand how B5 is suppose to work, it's suppose to be a building block of Keratin and acne is a problem of hyper-keratinisation - excess of keratin.

By the way, I've noticed that my hair grow back much quicker than a normal person would - anybody have this problem? (hyper-keratinisation of the hair?)

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Well for me your theory makes a lot of sense. My doctor recently said he had never in his whole practice seen anyone with cholesterol as low as mine. He was really shocked because most people with abnormally low cholesterol are underweight and malnourished but i am of a healthy weight.

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Well for me your theory makes a lot of sense. My doctor recently said he had never in his whole practice seen anyone with cholesterol as low as mine. He was really shocked because most people with abnormally low cholesterol are underweight and malnourished but i am of a healthy weight.

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Well for me your theory makes a lot of sense. My doctor recently said he had never in his whole practice seen anyone with cholesterol as low as mine. He was really shocked because most people with abnormally low cholesterol are underweight and malnourished but i am of a healthy weight.

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some more interesting studys on cholesterol levels and its correlations with acne.

Dermatologica. 1986;172(3):154-9. Links

Isotretinoin versus minocycline in cystic acne: a study of lipid metabolism.Pigatto PD, Finzi AF, Altomare GF, Polenghi MM, Vergani C, Vigotti G.

We have recently reported that patients with severe nodular cystic acne have much lower levels of HDL-cholesterol, apolipoprotein A and hepatic lipoprotein lipase than healthy controls or subjects with acne vulgaris. Since isotretinoin is very effective in the treatment of the nodular cystic acne but has been shown to increase blood lipid levels, we decided to compare its clinical effectiveness and its effects on lipid metabolism with those of minocycline in patients with nodular cystic acne. After 20 weeks, the number and mean diameter of the cysts were definitely decreased in both groups, but the improvement was more striking in the isotretinoin-treated group. At the end of the treatment, the HDL-C and hepatic lipoprotein lipase levels in this group were increased toward normal, but not in the minocycline-treated group. Our study showed a significant remission in the acne of patients treated with isotretinoin but not in that of the minocycline-treated patients. Furthermore isotretinoin can also correct the altered lipid metabolism in these patients.

Dermatologica. 1985;171(4):243-6. Links

Lipoprotein metabolism and lipoprotein lipase in severe cystic acne.Pigatto P, Altomare GF, Negri M, Finzi AF, Vigotti G, Vergani C.

In severe cystic acne we found low levels of high density lipoprotein-cholesterol (HDL-C) and apolipoprotein A (Apo-A) in the presence of normal total lipids. In a larger number of patients, we always observed significantly lower levels of HDL-C and Apo-A than in either age-matched controls or subjects with acne vulgaris. Since lipoprotein lipase is one major determinant of HDL concentration, we assayed the lipase activity in liver and extra-hepatic tissues by the method of Krauss et al. There was highly significant less total and hepatic lipase activity than in age-matched controls. HDL distribution was examined by zonal ultracentrifugation and a decrease in the HDL2 subclass was discovered. Since HDL are inversely correlated to atherosclerosis, cystic acne is one risk factor for atherosclerosis. The linkage between low HDL levels and severe cystic acne should be further investigated.

i concur.

this second study is weird though because it suggests acne is a risk factor for developing heart disease, while another study suggested that people with severe acne have a lower risk for heart disease but an increased risk for prostate cancer, its funny how you can have two seemingly well conducted studys and yet have two completely contradictory conclusions, perhaps scientists make errors more often then we realize, but science does realize that many conclusions only have a certain range of probablity to be true, and alot of times information can suggest any number of conclusions that even though are possible to hold truth, may not have a high probability of being true.

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the nap improvement is probably just due to the obvious. you aren't getting enough sleep. I never get enough sleep and should start takin naps.

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I agree with you. Acne is an internal problem that has to be internally fixed. This only goes for the persistent acne only. That's why nothing externally works to cure it.

I think the immune system plays a role, maybe its over active and any activity it detects in the sebaceous glands it counter reacts and sends of to fight the infection, and therefore inflammation occurs.

I guess people with acne have an healthy immune system, too healthy maybe. I rarely get sick. Maybe once every 2-3 years.

One thing i noticed is that i have never seen an overweight person with hardcore acne. It's always the skinnier people. strange.

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Wouldn't it be hilariously funny if we all found out one day that the real cause of acne is something totally bizarre and unrelated to anything involving the standard ideas bout it?

Dunno what though...I'm still workin' on comin' up with a bizarre theory. :dry:

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Wouldn't it be hilariously funny if we all found out one day that the real cause of acne is something totally bizarre and unrelated to anything involving the standard ideas bout it?

Dunno what though...I'm still workin' on comin' up with a bizarre theory. :dry:

best way to figure out why acne is what it is, would be to gather as much empirical information from what you can see with your eyes, in a microscope and try to explain or find reasoning behind what brings those conditions about, discover the mechanics behind the whole thing, and be able to bring about thiose conditions at will, demonstrating or proving your understanding of the disease.

which is basically what every research scientist is trying to do right now its just that the human body is a one complicated mutha, you gotta be one smart cookie to crack the code.

i really wish i had my own fuckin lab and a stack of biology books, id do the shit my god damn self.

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