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R.S.

Looking Over Leo's Last Acne Solution....

Just skimming through his book, I have to say that Leo is spot on on a lot of things and I don't see why he's gotten so much shit. He basically is saying a lot of the same stuff me and Danny say. Where he's wrong though is he has you buy a million supplements whereas you're better off getting most of that stuff through diet and buying just a few supplements. But yeah, thoughts?

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haha, and we need to make our own kefir! i noticed you saying something about comsuming kefir. do you buy the raw stuff?? but yea, taking all that vitamin c he says is simply unrealistic. how the heck would one take all those supplements w/o overconsuming water? (which he does make note of)

also the soy lecithin part is off? it's deemed crap by a lot of sites.

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Yeah, I agree going to a farm to buy goat milk then making kefir out of it is a little extreme, however in a perfect world it would be the best solution. We live in a busy, imperfect world, and no ones' goign to do that...

I used to make my own kefir just using grains that I bought off ebay, and organic (not raw) milk. Now I just buy bottles of kefir at the health food store. It's greattttt stuff.

And yeah, he recommends too many supplements that should be better gotten from diet - for example, there's really no reason to EVER take a magnesium supplement when leafy greens are such a cheap and abundant source.

Where has lecithin been deemed crap? Lecithin is very important for the body and the brain, and if your liver is too burderend to create enough, supplementing can't hurt. Also, lecithin I believe is one of the oldest supplements on the market...

The only relevent thing I've heard about lecithin is that it can be oxidized. Sally Fallon and the WAPF will tell you that soy lecithin is a waste product of the soy industry - which it probably is, but all that really means is it's an extra part of a process that would otherwise get thrown out, why not sell it?

Being well informed by Mercola.com and Weston A. Price, having had raw milk before, having heard people say regular milk breaks them out and raw milk doesn't, and having seen my uncle who drinks raw milk because he can get it easily and cheaply and is very healthy, yes I believe raw milk is healthier. The problem is the cow's conditions must be very well kept, and the area must be very clean and sterile or you run risks.

Unless you meant raw food in general, in which case yes, there is hard science to back up that overcooking your food creates carcinogens like acrylamides (potato chips and fries are one of the leading sourcre of this toxin), as well as all the stuff that gets created when you cook meat. Most people are able to neutralize this stuff I believe.

One other fault of Leo's book is he doesn't really know how to treat digestion - he gives some techniques but he hasn't heard of Triphala obviously...

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So far I've read about 10-13 ebook about acne (those u need pay for get ebook) .. So what I notice most of them cure start with EFA or GLA... So they finnaly have same root way to get rid of acne

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Yeah, I agree going to a farm to buy goat milk then making kefir out of it is a little extreme, however in a perfect world it would be the best solution. We live in a busy, imperfect world, and no ones' goign to do that...

I used to make my own kefir just using grains that I bought off ebay, and organic (not raw) milk. Now I just buy bottles of kefir at the health food store. It's greattttt stuff.

And yeah, he recommends too many supplements that should be better gotten from diet - for example, there's really no reason to EVER take a magnesium supplement when leafy greens are such a cheap and abundant source.

Where has lecithin been deemed crap? Lecithin is very important for the body and the brain, and if your liver is too burderend to create enough, supplementing can't hurt. Also, lecithin I believe is one of the oldest supplements on the market...

The only relevent thing I've heard about lecithin is that it can be oxidized. Sally Fallon and the WAPF will tell you that soy lecithin is a waste product of the soy industry - which it probably is, but all that really means is it's an extra part of a process that would otherwise get thrown out, why not sell it?

Being well informed by Mercola.com and Weston A. Price, having had raw milk before, having heard people say regular milk breaks them out and raw milk doesn't, and having seen my uncle who drinks raw milk because he can get it easily and cheaply and is very healthy, yes I believe raw milk is healthier. The problem is the cow's conditions must be very well kept, and the area must be very clean and sterile or you run risks.

Unless you meant raw food in general, in which case yes, there is hard science to back up that overcooking your food creates carcinogens like acrylamides (potato chips and fries are one of the leading sourcre of this toxin), as well as all the stuff that gets created when you cook meat. Most people are able to neutralize this stuff I believe.

One other fault of Leo's book is he doesn't really know how to treat digestion - he gives some techniques but he hasn't heard of Triphala obviously...

Wouldn't egg yolks be a better source to get lecithin?

Yea, Leo's solutions on digestion just involve taking a fiber supplement and eating only like 2 kinds of foods in every meal. Doesn't he say starches should only constitute 25% of a meal and the rest should be like all veggies?

I was at a local health food store over the summer and I saw raw kefir for sale. I was tempted to buy it but then I had second thoughts... :wacko: Leo also says that sauerkraut can be a substitute for the kefir so that's what I do. Maybe I should give kefir a shot, but not the raw kind I saw! (after taking micro i'm paranoid :))

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You know, in theory I think raw kefir would be safer then raw milk because the kefir grains would cause the good bacteria to vastly out number any bad guys in there.

Egg yolks are a good source, but it's a little easier to just get the soy lecithin and be able to take as much as you want without worrying about overdosing on iodine in egg yolks (notice I said overdose, it's a common misconception that ANY iodine will cause acne on this forum...). When I eat my eggs I try to get the white's to white and have the yolk stay as raw as possible... I like doing it this way as opposed to just chugging the yolk and discarding the white like I would if I eat it all the way raw.

I can tell you guys firsthand, nothing in Leo's book is really his own original ideas, or own fabricated ideas. It's all got it's basis from somewhere, it's basically a big book with everything in one place. I almost wish I would have bought it before I knew any of the stuff that I know now so I could have had it all figured out in a few days, but then again I probably wouldn't know as much as I know now either... And he definitely does take things to such an extreme that it's insulting too, though in a perfect world he's right, but he's grossly wrong in a real world...

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I have do doubt that following Leo's suggestion will get you clear. I believe that any type of medium term fasting diet will get you clear. I believe a lot of things that drastically alter your lifestyle will get you clear but it's just too much for most people. It's just too much for most people to even gradually get into. The costs alone are enourmous and would warrant most people to take a vacation instead or something.

I also realize that he didn't come up with any original points and thats fine because all the information to battle acne with non-medical means is already out there, you just have to sort through the crap and that's what he tried to do. What bugs me is that he just seems to take every little piece of acne info that he could find and cram it all together in what would look like a decent program. Why must we make our own Kefir? Why must we take every supplement known to man that has any little connection with acne? Why must we liver cleanse?

I would take his book and pick and choose what seems right for you but then again every bit of information he has in his book is on the forums for free. Pretty much every bit of information ever written on acne is or has been discussed and linked is on these boards. I think the best tool for acne that most people never use is the search function here. Look past the first page, there are encyclopedias full of information on this subject for you to discover here.

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Ive said it before in a previous post somewhere: The Last Acne Solution is totally impractical. Far too many supplements are required (so expensive) and the dietary methods are extremely difficult to follow. There is lots of good information in there though.

I just think Leo has collated all he can find on acne fighting techniques and just shoved it in one place.

What bugs me is that he just seems to take every little piece of acne info that he could find and cram it all together in what would look like a decent program.

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His book will teach you more on acne than any doctor any guy on the street and parent.

Ive followed his book to the T and it works 100%...however if i were to add my own section to the book Id lower his recomendation of supplements. Increase how much salmon you eat for the EFAs. Regardless of the Acid/Alkaline theory which is predominently a cortisol state of homone balance.

After following his book for a year I looked very gaunt and skinny and for a male this isnt desired. for acne it works 100% and for life longer health Id say its 75% accurate depending on the person. I.e. He never gave a reason why we cant build muscle in an Alkaline environment - Like you will never see a Vegi-bodybuilder because without complete protein you cant build muscle. Without enough calories to support muscle building your pissing against the wind. So cutting building foods to 20% of your diet and having 80% alkaline is the perfect diet. Nope. Ive tried it...trying to body build on that diet is poor. Even with 2000 calories of fat with his diet you cant build muscle.

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So his book wasn't that useful then? Just as I thought.

Oh, it's quite useful, it's jam packed with everything you need to know in one place.

But like I just said, and other people said, fuck the supplements, most of that stuff is better gotten through diet. Green smoothies and kefir knock out a good amount of supplements he recommends...

And as far as paying 40 dollars for free information, that's also pretty wack. Much thanks to Melfice2k for hooking me up... I'll repay the karma to anyone that wants it, because I'm a fond believer that information should be free (and it is for the most part, you could argue that you have to buy books, but you could go to the library to read them if you wanted). And all Leo really did was shift through the crap and get some good info.

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Like you will never see a Vegi-bodybuilder because without complete protein you cant build muscle.

Actually vegan bodybuilders do exist

Plant protein are complete with very few exceptions

Complete protein simply mean that the amount of E.A.A is adequate to human needs and you know when the amoun of E.A.A. in one gram of protein is such that the needed amount of protein plus a 15% safe margin from that sole protein is able to provide the essential amount of E.A.A. over which no extra benefit is gained

Whether you eat a steak or lentils or almonds or yams half the amino acids contained in them will be mixed with your endogenous amino acids to form proteins that are human compatible. That's why the amino acid profile of a protein has little hope to have any different effect on the body, because that profile is destroyed by the body once the protein is metabolized. Even if a protein is rich in one amino acid it won't used. Only the necessary amount to form new proteins will be used and mixed with endogenous amino acids, the surplus coming from a protein particularly rich in one amino acid won't be used to increase the production of certain hormones (if there's no need to) and will just become endogeous amino acids in turn

Without enough calories to support muscle building your pissing against the wind. So cutting building foods to 20% of your diet and having 80% alkaline is the perfect diet. Nope. Ive tried it...trying to body build on that diet is poor. Even with 2000 calories of fat with his diet you cant build muscle.

To have a diet which is net-alkaline you need at least 70-75 of the volume of your diet in weight to be alkalinizing. For example for a diet to produce an alkaline residue of -11 mEq you would need a food proportion like this:

Given 400 grams of meat

550 grams of vegetables

550 grams of fruits

If you need more calories you just have to eat more but there's no reason why the ratios must change as calories are not increase buy changing the ratio but by increasing the amount of food one eats or increasing the amount of meals consumed in a day

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And as far as paying 40 dollars for free information, that's also pretty wack. Much thanks to Melfice2k for hooking me up... I'll repay the karma to anyone that wants it, because I'm a fond believer that information should be free (and it is for the most part, you could argue that you have to buy books, but you could go to the library to read them if you wanted). And all Leo really did was shift through the crap and get some good info.

You are paying the $40 for information that would have taken weeks for you to collate. This is called an exhange and is how economy works. I dont think that is wack in all honesty. He worked and spent time for that $40 bucks. And most people would have benefited, and if not you can get a refund.

Also, without the fact of it costing $40, most people wouldnt implement it and thus get the results as they havent invested money in it. And without the exchange of money do you expect Leo to spend all his time promoting it for free to get eyes to read it?

The current economic system of the internet means that more acne sufferers would find and read the book if it cost money than if it was free. Its a sad fact.

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And as far as paying 40 dollars for free information, that's also pretty wack. Much thanks to Melfice2k for hooking me up... I'll repay the karma to anyone that wants it, because I'm a fond believer that information should be free (and it is for the most part, you could argue that you have to buy books, but you could go to the library to read them if you wanted). And all Leo really did was shift through the crap and get some good info.

You are paying the $40 for information that would have taken weeks for you to collate. This is called an exhange and is how economy works. I dont think that is wack in all honesty. He worked and spent time for that $40 bucks. And most people would have benefited, and if not you can get a refund.

Also, without the fact of it costing $40, most people wouldnt implement it and thus get the results as they havent invested money in it. And without the exchange of money do you expect Leo to spend all his time promoting it for free to get eyes to read it?

The current economic system of the internet means that more acne sufferers would find and read the book if it cost money than if it was free. Its a sad fact.

Regardless of economy, business, etc. I still feel that:

1) Information should be free. It costed a lot of money to do all the studies that get published on pubmed.gov, yet I can freely search for articles and research things. The internet has only made information even more open and accessible.

2) Leo's promotions have done a lot more harm then good. I mean, his whole website is like a crappy informercial.

3) 40 dollars is not a fair price. Leo is more concerned with money. It's arguable whether someone would implement his stuff in it or not.

4) Leo did an awful lot of copying of perfectly free resources like curezone.com. I mean, if he really made some original contribution to the field of acne studies as a whole as is the case with Cordain and his e-book, maybe it's merited to charge a bit of money. But sorry Leo, you're overcharging acne sufferers for easily accessed information...

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Information should be free.

In an ideal world yes, but in reality information is a commodity.

It costed a lot of money to do all the studies that get published on pubmed.gov,

And Im sure they are duly funded for it.

2) Leo's promotions have done a lot more harm then good.

Thats debatable. I think the information in the book is worthy and that he isnt falsely promoting it. He should probably mention the difficulty of implementing his program though, but I can understand why he doesn't. Dont forget, if the buyer reads it and thinks they will never be able to properly use it they can always get a refund. Admittedly most don't though. But that is their choice.

I mean, his whole website is like a crappy informercial.

It is slightly tacky...

3) 40 dollars is not a fair price. Leo is more concerned with money. It's arguable whether someone would implement his stuff in it or not.

I think thats a fair comment. Apart from the price part...So what about Perricone's Acne Prescription--that has information in it that could be said to be easily accessible online for free. Is his work more merited for money than Leos?

Leo probably does think that to cure acne you need to do all of the steps in his book- Like it or lump it.

Or he could just be another charlatan who cynically collated info and never had acne or cured himself in the first place...

4) Leo did an awful lot of copying of perfectly free resources like curezone.com. I mean, if he really made some original contribution to the field of acne studies as a whole as is the case with Cordain and his e-book, maybe it's merited to charge a bit of money. But sorry Leo, you're overcharging acne sufferers for easily accessed information...

I personally agree with that, Im playing devils advocate a little in my previous comments :shifty:

See this for my real opinions on acne and internet marketing:

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php?showtopic=118392

The bottomline question is whether or not Leo is being ethical or not. Im swinging towards the not ethical judgement. But not massively unethical.

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With Perricone, like I said previously, you can go to the library or the bookstore and read that stuff for free. And Perricone has made some contributions to his area of expertise as well, though he's a classic example of grossly overcharging for his products... Anyways, I actually read a few chapters out of the Perricone Prescription for free and got a pretty good idea of his whole regime, it's like Cordain's in a way= low glycemic, omega-3's, plant foods. Isn't Perricone the one that's dogmatic about the glycemic index to the point of denouncing any food above a medium as unhealthy whether or not it's nutrient dense? Pretty sure he forbids banannas, no way I'd give up my healthy delicious banannas haha. Besides, they make me have vivid dreams thanks to the B6 :)\

Either way the offer is still up: if someone wants a copy of Leo's book I'll gladly give them one.

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R.S I have his ebooks and voice conver records Lol if you need ask me :)

With Perricone, like I said previously, you can go to the library or the bookstore and read that stuff for free. And Perricone has made some contributions to his area of expertise as well, though he's a classic example of grossly overcharging for his products... Anyways, I actually read a few chapters out of the Perricone Prescription for free and got a pretty good idea of his whole regime, it's like Cordain's in a way= low glycemic, omega-3's, plant foods. Isn't Perricone the one that's dogmatic about the glycemic index to the point of denouncing any food above a medium as unhealthy whether or not it's nutrient dense? Pretty sure he forbids banannas, no way I'd give up my healthy delicious banannas haha. Besides, they make me have vivid dreams thanks to the B6 :)\

Either way the offer is still up: if someone wants a copy of Leo's book I'll gladly give them one.

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Also, without the fact of it costing $40, most people wouldnt implement it and thus get the results as they havent invested money in it. And without the exchange of money do you expect Leo to spend all his time promoting it for free to get eyes to read it?

The current economic system of the internet means that more acne sufferers would find and read the book if it cost money than if it was free. Its a sad fact.

Unforutnaly I have to agree with that. People don't appreciate free information. I have been giving my ebook away for free, but most people almost immediately discount it because it's free. They may read it, but without forking out 40$ for it very few people have the commitment to follow any program that requires work and effort.

Sad but true.

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What I meant by vegi-bodybuilder I meant without a complete protein you will not gain muscle.

Regarding the Alkaline/Acid ratio ive been there and done it. With a net alkaline diet its hard to gain muscle mass. Regarding the ratio Acid food would increase over Autumn and winter whereas Spring and summer the Alkaline ratio would outweigh the acid ratio. So in theory staying Alkaline yearly can be against the nature of your body. Also the body is meant to be in a Fat burning state not a carb burning state, carbs would only make a small part of a natural diet from plant roots and fruit in nature and some sprouted grains etc.

The body is Alkaline by nature and acid by function. Is the skin meant to be acid? Is the bowels meant to be acid? Theres so much information saying this and that but in reality I think diet should be around 55% Alkaline and 45% Acid. Each to their own tbh as when you read books like Leos and others like Natural Hormonal Enhancment you just end up not really knowing the BEST diet in terms of I WANT TO LIVE FOREVER! So just enjoy life, stick to Natural foods and exercise and you should meet your chronological life time of 120-160 years old...or get hit by a bus and die. All were here to do is have sex.

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What I meant by vegi-bodybuilder I meant without a complete protein you will not gain muscle.

And I meant that amino acid by amino acid levels comparing 95% of plant foods are complete proteins

Regarding the Alkaline/Acid ratio ive been there and done it. With a net alkaline diet its hard to gain muscle mass. Regarding the ratio Acid food would increase over Autumn and winter whereas Spring and summer the Alkaline ratio would outweigh the acid ratio. So in theory staying Alkaline yearly can be against the nature of your body.

If you found hard to gain mass on an Alkaline diet your ratio was wrong

Let's make an example

2500 calories

210 grams of protein

89 grams of fat

250 grams of carbohydrates

protein 35%

fat 37%

carbohydrate 28 %

animal food by weight: 29 %

plant food by weight: 60%

Net alkaline residues: - 7 mEq

This diet is perfectly alkaline without being restricted in proteins or fats

It's not true that you must eat nothing but celery to have an alkaline diet

Acid foods don't have to increase over autunm because autumn is the perfect season for natural base fatty foods like nuts (not all of them), avocados and olives. It is a season rich in vegetables and fruits as well

It's not against nature to have acidic residues buffered by foods bicarbonate rather than by osteo-mobilited calcium

Also the body is meant to be in a Fat burning state not a carb burning state, carbs would only make a small part of a natural diet from plant roots and fruit in nature and some sprouted grains etc.

The body is not meant to be on either states

We carry fat mostly as organs protection and as calories stores

We are perfectly capable of burning either fatty acids or either glucose according to the physical needs of the moment.

Carbs wouldn't make a small part of the diet because FRUITS and VEGETABLES contain enough, refined starches and sweets are the only way to have a diet containing relevant amounts of carbs

For example the hunter-gatherer diet everyone is talking about, on average when fruits are contained on the diet, is 30% carbs. Yes it is way lower then the typical 60% of certain western people but it's not low enough to be considered low and high enough to allow the body to use glucose as a substrate to produce energy plus fatty acids from fats, rarely amino acids from proteins

The body is Alkaline by nature and acid by function. Is the skin meant to be acid? Is the bowels meant to be acid? Theres so much information saying this and that but in reality I think diet should be around 55% Alkaline and 45% Acid.

It's rather confusing with percentages as used by certain books on the subject

I can understand how alkaline/acid balance, from reading these books, may seem like a quack new age pseudoscientific concept. But dealing with it scientifically you just have to calculate the net alkaline residues your whole day of eating results in.

Making things aproximative plant foods are provide alkalinization and animal foods provide acidification

(there are exception but that's just to make things simpler)

Even the word alkaline or acid food is wrong because being the effect of food once metabolized what matters they should be called alkalinizing and acidifying foods

Potassium citrate from a certain amount of plant foods can only buffer about half of the sulfuric acids produced by amino acids metabolism. Therefore given a certain amount of animal foods providing metabolic acids one needs twice the amount of plant foods to have a net alkaline diet at the end of the day

So two examples would be:

800 g of animal foods

400 g of vegetables

400 g of fruits

+40.6 mEq (very acidic)

480 g of meat

560 g of vegetables

500 g of fruits

-4.3 mEq (slightly alkaline)

400 g of meat

600 g of vegetables

600 g of fruits

-20.8 mEq (very alkaline)

Notice how the alkaline examples both result in a non-bulky diet and adequate in calories and protein

So the very acidic first example doesn't add anything to the two example above except that it corrodes muscles and bones, decrease mineral density and decrease growth hormones levels

All were here to do is have sex.

This is highly debatable ...

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Ok if we can get complete protein from veg/fruit, why isnt there one bodybuilder or any1 showing results of a 'toned' body from just plant and fruits?

Yea I will admit my ratio may have been wrong, im still working on that part.

Its true also the body can and does burn both fat and glucose for energy but yo-yo insulin levels from HI Gi foods cause havoc for acne sufferers liver. Burning fat for fuel is highly debatable depending on what you read and your point of view. IMO fat burning, lowering dense carb foods only help acne and also helps reduce body fat since your burning fat over carbs. 30% carbs can be hard to get even from fruits and veg one 400g cucumber gives less then 10g of active carbs while being very alkaline forming. Sugars from excess fruit also leads to mold and yeast overgrowths like candidia.

Is the Acid/Alkaline theory whack? IMO nope, it has relivance and is kinda new age.

Its hard to also guage what pH you currently are. Even with pH stix (not litmus paper) for sliva and urine ive found to be inaccurate. Also it could be argued we can live in both a slighty acid or alkaline pH and be healthy.

Eskimos diet consist of high fats, which is more nuteral, high in animal proteins like fish which is slightly acidic and ive little idea of what alkaline they can eat daily to offset there pH? what am i missing here?

Everything falls second to reproducing!

p.s. I think were boardering on the line of the ultimate human diet here. From different books and opinions its all highly debatable who is right and wrong. i.e. high carb and fat low carbs diet, or the hunter gather diet, or the GI diet, or Atkins diet, The Zone diet, Paleo diet theres loads and loads of diets that all toute to be the right one etc etc...The real diet is seasonal dieting. My view on this is Summer Alkaline, Spring Detox/alkaline, Autumn Acidic/Alkaline winter Acidic.

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