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jordan12

What ARE trans fats?

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I was just kind of wondering what they are, exactly? And why is it that people are now blaming them for heart disease and shifting the blame away from saturated fats? It's really puzzling, because I looked at a lot of foods that have been considered "unhealthy" such as pizza, all kinds of desserts and candies, et. al., and hardly ANYTHING has any notable amount of trans fats (most I've found was 1.5 grams, outside of some birthday cake I had that had 6 grams of trans fats per 1/12th the cake or so...lol).

I HIGHLY doubt that people who get heart disease got it from eating CAKE.

So if anyone could clarify this for me, that would be great...but as of right now, I'm beginning to think it's a ridiculous new fad.

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You're seeing less and less trans fats because of the fact that it does cause a whole host of problems.

The fact that they now have to have a label listing how many grams of trans fats are in their product discourages the producer of that good from putting something on the shelf that probably wouldn't be bought if it had 10grams of trans fat per serving.

What are trans fats? They are the super good fats- they are the most healthy for you.

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Trans fats are created when unsaturated fats are hydrogenated to make them solid at room temperature

In other words margarine and vegetal butter

There are also saturated trans fats and they are found naturally in certain foods but they're not correlated with a greater incidence of cardiocircolatory diseases

One of the first author warning people about trans fats problem has been Walter Willet

In several clininal trials where other factors have been isolated and ruled out trans fats have been shows to raise low density lipoprotein cholesterol which is known to increase the formation of arthetial plaques

I don't think it's still known why the formation of trans fats bounds have adverse effect for one's health, the studies showed the correlation not the exact causes but there are theories like this one:

he harmful effects of trans fats are set in motion by a biochemical switch, or co-activator, in liver cells

called PGC-1beta.

Their findings shed light on the ongoing dilemma in scientific circles as to trans fats cause an increase in blood cholesterol and

triglycerides, while diets high in unsaturated and polyunsaturated fats do not.

Reporting their findings in Cell, the researchers report that when activated by harmful fats, PGC-1beta alters liver metabolism through a cascade of biochemical signals.

The result is an upsurge in the liver's production of very low-density lipoprotein (VLDL) cholesterol, the precursor of low-density lipoprotein (LDL), or 'bad' cholesterol and triglycerides - another fatty substance - that are secreted into the bloodstream.

PGC-1beta belongs to a specific family of co-activators, proteins that interact with other proteins to turn genes on and off and adjust their activity, like a dimmer switch that varies the brightness of a light

Danny

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I was just kind of wondering what they are, exactly? And why is it that people are now blaming them for heart disease and shifting the blame away from saturated fats? It's really puzzling, because I looked at a lot of foods that have been considered "unhealthy" such as pizza, all kinds of desserts and candies, et. al., and hardly ANYTHING has any notable amount of trans fats (most I've found was 1.5 grams, outside of some birthday cake I had that had 6 grams of trans fats per 1/12th the cake or so...lol).

I HIGHLY doubt that people who get heart disease got it from eating CAKE.

So if anyone could clarify this for me, that would be great...but as of right now, I'm beginning to think it's a ridiculous new fad.

EVERYONE acknowledges how bad trans fats are, and has acknowledged that for years. It's not a fad. It's based on studies.

There's suprisingly little evidence to show a correlation between saturated fat and heart disease.

BTW, sometimes a product will say "0 trans fats" when there is in fact hydrogenated oil in it (same thing). If it's under 0.2 grams per SERVING, they can say it has none. And yeah, there used to be a lot more trans fats in a lot more foods a few years ago.

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I was just kind of wondering what they are, exactly? And why is it that people are now blaming them for heart disease and shifting the blame away from saturated fats? It's really puzzling, because I looked at a lot of foods that have been considered "unhealthy" such as pizza, all kinds of desserts and candies, et. al., and hardly ANYTHING has any notable amount of trans fats (most I've found was 1.5 grams, outside of some birthday cake I had that had 6 grams of trans fats per 1/12th the cake or so...lol).

I HIGHLY doubt that people who get heart disease got it from eating CAKE.

So if anyone could clarify this for me, that would be great...but as of right now, I'm beginning to think it's a ridiculous new fad.

EVERYONE acknowledges how bad trans fats are, and has acknowledged that for years. It's not a fad. It's based on studies.

There's suprisingly little evidence to show a correlation between saturated fat and heart disease.

Actually there are thousands of studies that show a correlation with saturated fat and heart disease ... the problem is that a correlation doesn't imply causation and all those tons of studies used to claim that saturated fat cause heart disease just prove a correlation, nothing more

Danny

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Trans fats are created when unsaturated fats are hydrogenated to make them solid at room temperature

In other words margarine and vegetal butter

There are also saturated trans fats and they are found naturally in certain foods but they're not correlated with a greater incidence of cardiocircolatory diseases

One of the first author warning people about trans fats problem has been Walter Willet

In several clininal trials where other factors have been isolated and ruled out trans fats have been shows to raise low density lipoprotein cholesterol which is known to increase the formation of arthetial plaques

I don't think it's still known why the formation of trans fats bounds have adverse effect for one's health, the studies showed the correlation not the exact causes but there are theories like this one:

he harmful effects of trans fats are set in motion by a biochemical switch, or co-activator, in liver cells

called PGC-1beta.

Their findings shed light on the ongoing dilemma in scientific circles as to trans fats cause an increase in blood cholesterol and

triglycerides, while diets high in unsaturated and polyunsaturated fats do not.

Reporting their findings in Cell, the researchers report that when activated by harmful fats, PGC-1beta alters liver metabolism through a cascade of biochemical signals.

The result is an upsurge in the liver's production of very low-density lipoprotein (VLDL) cholesterol, the precursor of low-density lipoprotein (LDL), or 'bad' cholesterol and triglycerides - another fatty substance - that are secreted into the bloodstream.

PGC-1beta belongs to a specific family of co-activators, proteins that interact with other proteins to turn genes on and off and adjust their activity, like a dimmer switch that varies the brightness of a light

Danny

Thanks, that helps.

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I was just kind of wondering what they are, exactly?

I notice that the replies in this thread have discussed various aspects of trans fats like how they are produced and whether or not they are harmful to ingest, but nobody's taken a stab at answering your actual question, which is what exactly ARE trans fats! ;)

Fatty acids are generally long hydrocarbon chains with an acid group at one end (there are certain exceptions to that rule, but I'm just speaking in generalities). There are different ways that carbon atoms can link together to form a chain. The most common way is for neighboring carbon atoms to share only a single pair of electrons (one electron from each carbon atom), with the other electrons being shared with hydrogen atoms. When a fatty acid is arranged like that along its entire length, it's called a saturated fatty acid, because it's saturated with as many hydrogen atoms as possible. However, sometimes two neighboring carbon atoms will share TWO pairs of electrons (two electrons from both carbon atoms), and will have fewer hydrogen atoms as a result. Such a fatty acid is called unsaturated, bcause it has fewer hydrogen atoms than possible. Because they share TWO pairs of electrons in that second example, it's called a carbon "double-bond" (as opposed to a carbon "single-bond", like in the first case).

Complicating things still further, there's a couple of different ways that neighboring carbon atoms can form that "double-bond" in a chain of carbon atoms, and it has to do with the exact geometrical orientation of the molecule. The double-bond in most natural fatty acids is in the so-called cis configuration, but it's also possible for them to exist in the different trans configuration. It all has to do with different angles and geometries in the orientations of those carbon atoms. So basically, a "trans fat" is any fatty substance whose fatty acids contain significant numbers of carbon double-bonds in the trans configuration.

I'll bet now you're sorry that you asked the question in the first place! :)

Bryan

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Simplistic way to visualize would be that Cis would have the Hydrogens on the same side, which occurs in single bonds and also double bonds. However, Trans would be double bonds with the hydrogens on the opposite side of each other.

Example of double bonds:

H____H

\____/

/------\

X___X

Cis

H____X

\____/

/------\

X___H

Trans

LOL so it won't let me do it quite right! See below links:

http://www.bastnet.com/fatfacts/ff3.html

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jhlee777/co...mage/fig1-1.jpg

For some reason, the body really doesn't like this configuration when dealing with man-made transfats (about 90% of transfats). With regards to acne, they increase your IGF-1 levels, Inflammation, and in dealing with the pancreas, may contribute to producing defective Insulin (according to something I read once), for those of us that are Insulin Resistant.

Some people have noticed that they get cystic acne upon ingestion. I've noticed that I get larger pores, sometimes increased unwanted hair growth, and edema (hence enlarged pores) around my nose area. It takes about 2 weeks for my pores to normalize again!

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There are also saturated trans fats and they are found naturally in certain foods but they're not correlated

Fully hydrogenated oils do not contain "trans fats", there's no such thing as a saturated "trans" fat, no double bonds no "trans".

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There are also saturated trans fats and they are found naturally in certain foods but they're not correlated

Fully hydrogenated oils do not contain "trans fats", there's no such thing as a saturated "trans" fat, no double bonds no "trans".

Technically yes, but nutritionally they're listed as saturated fats so as to consider trans fats just those fats undertaking the hydrogenation process. That's why for example you don't find trans fats content of cow milk because the trans fats are actually listed with the sat ones

Danny

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There are also saturated trans fats and they are found naturally in certain foods but they're not correlated

Fully hydrogenated oils do not contain "trans fats", there's no such thing as a saturated "trans" fat, no double bonds no "trans".

Technically yes, but nutritionally they're listed as saturated fats so as to consider trans fats just those fats undertaking the hydrogenation process. That's why for example you don't find trans fats content of cow milk because the trans fats are actually listed with the sat ones

Danny

Did that make any sense to anyone?

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There are also saturated trans fats and they are found naturally in certain foods but they're not correlated

Fully hydrogenated oils do not contain "trans fats", there's no such thing as a saturated "trans" fat, no double bonds no "trans".

Technically yes, but nutritionally they're listed as saturated fats so as to consider trans fats just those fats undertaking the hydrogenation process. That's why for example you don't find trans fats content of cow milk because the trans fats are actually listed with the sat ones

Danny

Did that make any sense to anyone?

It's because of laws on trans fats I think but what jordan needs to know is that natural occurring trans fats are not listed as unsaturated fats

Danny

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There are also saturated trans fats and they are found naturally in certain foods but they're not correlated

Fully hydrogenated oils do not contain "trans fats", there's no such thing as a saturated "trans" fat, no double bonds no "trans".

Technically yes, but nutritionally they're listed as saturated fats so as to consider trans fats just those fats undertaking the hydrogenation process. That's why for example you don't find trans fats content of cow milk because the trans fats are actually listed with the sat ones

Danny

Did that make any sense to anyone?

Well it's true, dairy does contain a small amount of naturally derived trans fats...if that helps. ;)

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There are also saturated trans fats and they are found naturally in certain foods but they're not correlated

Fully hydrogenated oils do not contain "trans fats", there's no such thing as a saturated "trans" fat, no double bonds no "trans".

Technically yes, but nutritionally they're listed as saturated fats so as to consider trans fats just those fats undertaking the hydrogenation process. That's why for example you don't find trans fats content of cow milk because the trans fats are actually listed with the sat ones

Danny

Did that make any sense to anyone?

Well it's true, dairy does contain a small amount of naturally derived trans fats...if that helps. ;)

Yes, they are also found on fatty beef meat but, at least in my country, whethever nutrition textbook would list them as saturated fats and not as saturated fats and maybe it's because of the laws on trans fats

Danny

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:shock::shock::shock::shock:

trans fats (the synthetic ones) are not those that have undertaken the hydrogenation process they're the ones that have been bent by hydrogenation as apposed to hydrogenated, aghghghahahahah im going insane will all the nonsense..... and the people argeeing with the nonsense. i know what cla is what the fuck has cla got to do with whether or not saturated trans fats exist!!!!!!!!!!!!! i dont give a fuck where its listed or whether its natural ANY fat with a "trans" bond has to be unsaturated.

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Example of double bonds:

H____H

\____/

/------\

X___X

Cis

H____X

\____/

/------\

X___H

Trans

LOL so it won't let me do it quite right!

Hey, that was a valiant ATTEMPT to get a decent picture of it, at least! :)

I couldn't figure out how you got those H's and X's separated in space like that, so I had to look at the actual code to see how that little trick works. Nice effort, SweetJade!

Bryan

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:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

trans fats (the synthetic ones) are not those that have undertaken the hydrogenation process they're the ones that have been bent by hydrogenation as apposed to hydrogenated, aghghghahahahah im going insane will all the nonsense..... and the people argeeing with the nonsense. i know what cla is what the fuck has cla got to do with whether or not saturated trans fats exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you shouldn't ask us, you should ask those who chose to list cla as a saturated fat

i dont give a fuck where its listed or whether its natural ANY fat with a "trans" bond has to be unsaturated.

Calm down! The real question is what the fuck your reaction got to do with trying to share information with each other, and in the case they're wrong, correting them?

Danny

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Yes, they are also found on fatty beef meat but, at least in my country, whethever nutrition textbook would list them as saturated fats and not as saturated fats and maybe it's because of the laws on trans fats

I agree completely with Nick on this issue. If the labels and nutrition books in your country really do list trans-fats as saturated, then that's a very unfortunate "dumbing-down", in my opinion. Do they think the average consumer is simply too ignorant to really understand the differences between them, so they just lump them both together into one category?? If so, I'm shocked by that...

i know what cla is what the fuck has cla got to do with whether or not saturated trans fats exist!!!!!!!!

???

Who said anything about CLA??

Bryan

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Yes, they are also found on fatty beef meat but, at least in my country, whethever nutrition textbook would list them as saturated fats and not as saturated fats and maybe it's because of the laws on trans fats

I agree completely with Nick on this issue. If the labels and nutrition books in your country really do list trans-fats as saturated, then that's a very unfortunate "dumbing-down", in my opinion. Do they think the average consumer is simply too ignorant to really understand the differences between them, so they just lump them both together into one category?? If so, I'm shocked by that...

I don't think it's because they believe the consumer is too ignorant, they want just the laws be strict about artificial trans fats and therefore natural occuring trans fats are not considered trans PUFA

Danny

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i know what cla is what the fuck has cla got to do with whether or not saturated trans fats exist!!!!!!!!

???

Who said anything about CLA??

Bryan

He said something uninteligiable about the natural trans fat that exists in cow's milk, i took it he was on about CLA.

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i know what cla is what the fuck has cla got to do with whether or not saturated trans fats exist!!!!!!!!

???

Who said anything about CLA??

Bryan

He said something uninteligiable

My english, you know ... :(

Danny

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My english, you know ... :(

I don't mean to take the piss, but admittedly i am prone to losing my rag on occasion, sorry.

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I don't mean to take the piss...

Nick, I suspected before that you were English. That now confirms it! :)

Bryan

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I agree completely with Nick on this issue. If the labels and nutrition books in your country really do list trans-fats as saturated, then that's a very unfortunate "dumbing-down", in my opinion. Do they think the average consumer is simply too ignorant to really understand the differences between them, so they just lump them both together into one category?? If so, I'm shocked by that...

I don't think it's because they believe the consumer is too ignorant, they want just the laws be strict about artificial trans fats and therefore natural occuring trans fats are not considered trans PUFA

I want them to be strict about trans fat, too. I want them to call it what it is, not what it isn't. Trans fats aren't saturated, they're unsaturated!

There's been a lot of discussion on this forum about the possible harmful effects of other substances in milk, too, like added bovine growth hormones, synthetic antibiotics, trace levels of pus remaining in the milk, etc. Wouldn't it be funny if your country decided to simplify things even further by including all of THOSE items in the "saturated fat" category, too, along with trans fat? Would that finally be going too far? ;)

Bryan

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I was just kind of wondering what they are, exactly?

I notice that the replies in this thread have discussed various aspects of trans fats like how they are produced and whether or not they are harmful to ingest, but nobody's taken a stab at answering your actual question, which is what exactly ARE trans fats! ;)

Fatty acids are generally long hydrocarbon chains with an acid group at one end (there are certain exceptions to that rule, but I'm just speaking in generalities). There are different ways that carbon atoms can link together to form a chain. The most common way is for neighboring carbon atoms to share only a single pair of electrons (one electron from each carbon atom), with the other electrons being shared with hydrogen atoms. When a fatty acid is arranged like that along its entire length, it's called a saturated fatty acid, because it's saturated with as many hydrogen atoms as possible. However, sometimes two neighboring carbon atoms will share TWO pairs of electrons (two electrons from both carbon atoms), and will have fewer hydrogen atoms as a result. Such a fatty acid is called unsaturated, bcause it has fewer hydrogen atoms than possible. Because they share TWO pairs of electrons in that second example, it's called a carbon "double-bond" (as opposed to a carbon "single-bond", like in the first case).

Complicating things still further, there's a couple of different ways that neighboring carbon atoms can form that "double-bond" in a chain of carbon atoms, and it has to do with the exact geometrical orientation of the molecule. The double-bond in most natural fatty acids is in the so-called cis configuration, but it's also possible for them to exist in the different trans configuration. It all has to do with different angles and geometries in the orientations of those carbon atoms. So basically, a "trans fat" is any fatty substance whose fatty acids contain significant numbers of carbon double-bonds in the trans configuration.

I'll bet now you're sorry that you asked the question in the first place! :)

Bryan

Hmmmm...seems kind of like the definition of each is vague. Is there any set NUMBER of hydrogen double-bonds that need to be formed in order for a fatty acid to be deemed "saturated?" If that's the case, then I would think there may be poor classification of fatty acids in many foods where the chains are semi-saturated or something......polyunsaturated maybe?

And of course, there's monounsatured...

In other words, I'm just wondering what accounts for the slight differences in the quantity of double bonds within one classification...so there might be an instance where some saturated fats are more saturated than others?

This is why I avoid chemistry... :D

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