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i think it's the latter
for my treatments, i'm only having the areas with scarring done (rather than the whole face). and it has definitely been 8 (or 4 double passes) over each affected area rather than 8 in total for all areas
oh and also:
i think that just from basic principles, if one pass is 125mtz/cm2 and 10 passes is 1250 mtz/cm2, it implies that the 10 passes have to be over the same area
Hey Folks
It's been a full month since my third fraxel and will be getting # 4 tomorrow. Results are very noticable but at times I question how much improvement there really is. No question that there is improvement but it is difficult to define in terms of %. I have a variety of scars and there are different degrees of improvement in respect to each type.
Lots of variables such as moisture content, sun exposure to your skin from day to day will affect how you precieve how well fraxel works but no question that there is a noticable improvement.
A while back there was a post about a "grainy texture" after fraxel and I agree that there is. I almost WELCOME IT as I think that it evens out my complexion. I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from this treatment because I think that over time that :grainy look" will disipate. I think that when people talk about how it takes up to 6 months to see the full improvement it's because it is an agressive treatment and does take that time to heal.
IMO the best analogy to describe fraxel treatment is the way that they take care of golf greens 
They "punch" them Golf greens get tred on and weathered. They become very uneven and at some point they have to take aggressive action to even them out, they use a machine that "punches holes" in the green. This machine actually removes dirt from the green which OF COURSE the fraxel doesn't. It sends the golf green into "repair mode" and IT WORKS !!!
I think that the fraxel is similar.
Results, so far so good 
Hi troubled_skin. You mention that you got this from STL. What's that? Also, do they have a chart for the new fraxel? I was treated at level 40. Anyone know if 40 with the new fraxel machine is equivalent to a different lower setting with the original fraxel machine? Or is 40 with the new fraxel machine on the same scale as the old machine, just that much higher. Hopefully you get what I mean
i think it's the latter
for my treatments, i'm only having the areas with scarring done (rather than the whole face). and it has definitely been 8 (or 4 double passes) over each affected area rather than 8 in total for all areas
oh and also:
i think that just from basic principles, if one pass is 125mtz/cm2 and 10 passes is 1250 mtz/cm2, it implies that the 10 passes have to be over the same area
Yes. That was my original impression however -> then 10 passes could net much higher density then 1250 at 125. I think this chart would be more helpful if it specified the maximum setting that can be used safely and consistently as there are so many variables between each Dr's office. Thank you for your input. :think:
Hi troubled_skin. You mention that you got this from STL. What's that? Also, do they have a chart for the new fraxel? I was treated at level 40. Anyone know if 40 with the new fraxel machine is equivalent to a different lower setting with the original fraxel machine? Or is 40 with the new fraxel machine on the same scale as the old machine, just that much higher. Hopefully you get what I mean
Hey Folks
It's been a full month since my third fraxel and will be getting # 4 tomorrow. Results are very noticable but at times I question how much improvement there really is. No question that there is improvement but it is difficult to define in terms of %. I have a variety of scars and there are different degrees of improvement in respect to each type.
Lots of variables such as moisture content, sun exposure to your skin from day to day will affect how you precieve how well fraxel works but no question that there is a noticable improvement.
A while back there was a post about a "grainy texture" after fraxel and I agree that there is. I almost WELCOME IT as I think that it evens out my complexion. I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from this treatment because I think that over time that :grainy look" will disipate. I think that when people talk about how it takes up to 6 months to see the full improvement it's because it is an agressive treatment and does take that time to heal.
IMO the best analogy to describe fraxel treatment is the way that they take care of golf greens 😯 They "punch" them 😯 😯 😯 Golf greens get tred on and weathered. They become very uneven and at some point they have to take aggressive action to even them out, they use a machine that "punches holes" in the green. This machine actually removes dirt from the green which OF COURSE the fraxel doesn't. It sends the golf green into "repair mode" and IT WORKS !!!
I think that the fraxel is similar.
Results, so far so good 🙂
Great news, just curious what type of scars do you have, and have you notice any other changes besides scars improving such as, wrinkles if any , skin texture, pores, skin tightening??
thanks and good luck with your next treatment
Hey Folks
It's been a full month since my third fraxel and will be getting # 4 tomorrow. Results are very noticable but at times I question how much improvement there really is. No question that there is improvement but it is difficult to define in terms of %. I have a variety of scars and there are different degrees of improvement in respect to each type.
Lots of variables such as moisture content, sun exposure to your skin from day to day will affect how you precieve how well fraxel works but no question that there is a noticable improvement.
A while back there was a post about a "grainy texture" after fraxel and I agree that there is. I almost WELCOME IT as I think that it evens out my complexion. I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from this treatment because I think that over time that :grainy look" will disipate. I think that when people talk about how it takes up to 6 months to see the full improvement it's because it is an agressive treatment and does take that time to heal.
IMO the best analogy to describe fraxel treatment is the way that they take care of golf greens 😯 They "punch" them 😯 😯 😯 Golf greens get tred on and weathered. They become very uneven and at some point they have to take aggressive action to even them out, they use a machine that "punches holes" in the green. This machine actually removes dirt from the green which OF COURSE the fraxel doesn't. It sends the golf green into "repair mode" and IT WORKS !!!
I think that the fraxel is similar.
Results, so far so good 🙂
when you say a lot of variables such as moisture content, what do you mean by that???? please elaborate, do you mean that better results from moisturizing post fraxel or not moisturizing post fraxel? please explain, thanks in advance.
hey Simply
When I mentioned "moisture content" I simply meant whether I was "dehydraited" spelling... at the time, maybe alcohol or excersize without enough water consumption may make a significant difference in the appearance "depth" of some types of scars at the time...and by sun exposure I mean that there may be some swelling caused by sun exposure that can suggest better results than are "really there" I think that a good moisturizer/sunscreen is imperative tho !!! It's hard to determine the results of these fraxel treatments when taking all these factors in.
I have all of the obove scars and have seen an improvement in all. I do have one "raised scar" that has not shown much improvement but the others have significantly improved. Fine lines are IMO, signifacantly better and over all tightening is a definate "plus" I get a full face and neck treatment and I think that it helps in the over all tightening.
Rolling scars are much smoother. They are my biggest problem... Major cystic acne 
The tightning and texture has improved nicely !!!
My doctor has suggested that these treatments can be "ongoing" HMMMM!!! No kidding $$$ but at the same time he is giving me just about all that I can handle in respect to how much pain that I can take so I think that the results are close to the best that I can expect in respect to the "pain per square inch" 
Cheers
ah, thank you my friend. i'm only done with 1 fraxel treatment only at 16mjs, the next one i'm going to be treated at 20mjs, or perhaps my doc might get the new software update to fraxel so he can go much deeper with less density. also may i ask for your treatments previous mjs?? i'm thinking that the more pain or harder and more aggressive leads to deeper penetration and perhaps ultimately better results. was your treatment the original version of fraxel or the updated version? also what was the mjs by the way??
i was thinking with the old fraxel
16mjs
20mjs
25mjs
30mjs?
Troubled
My Last treatment exceeded the amounts in your chart. I had 8 passes at 125 mtz at 25 mjs. Scarred areas were then treated with 2 passes at 125 at 30 mjs. I am starting to beome more pleased with my results. For me, I thought I had some nice early improvment, but I was fooling myself once this was tested by pre and post photos and VISIA. However, I don't think I am fooling myself now, as the skin continues to gradually evolve with slightly softer scars.
Troubled
My Last treatment exceeded the amounts in your chart. I had 8 passes at 125 mtz at 25 mjs. Scarred areas were then treated with 2 passes at 125 at 30 mjs. I am starting to beome more pleased with my results. For me, I thought I had some nice early improvment, but I was fooling myself once this was tested by pre and post photos and VISIA. However, I don't think I am fooling myself now, as the skin continues to gradually evolve with slightly softer scars.
Yes Billyboy, I guess we could say you are an early pioneer of high treatment settings since you were treated at the highest levels I have heard of so far with the exception of Blaster. Believe it or not there are still many PS that fear going beyond power level 20 so you are blazing new trails for many!
Aside from the other possibilities we covered, I wonder if your delayed results had anything to do with a higher then usual thermal injury effect from those higher settings. That would be a good thing though since higher tissue injury usually yields better results but, it could at least in part explain the slow start.
I have a couple of questions for you that come to mind. If I remember correctly you said back in one of your posts that you had a few hypertrophic scars on your leg. Did Fraxel completely flatten those or was the improvement only partial? Also, now that that you have had more time to heal did Fraxel help with the hyperpigmentation at all? I am really glad to hear the results on your face continue to improve. 😀
Hi fellow Fraxelers! I called Dr. Kovak's office a little while ago and cancelled my next appointment, and asked for a refund. It's been 2 weeks since my Palomar treatment, and I haven't seen any improvements. In fact, I see a few new small scars that I'm not happy about. The Palomar may work for other people, but I don't think there's enough known about it to continue with it. I was recommended a doctor by the name of Dr. Manolis in Orland Park. Has anybody had Fraxel SR1500 done by him, and what do you think of him? I'm planning on calling for a consultation, and starting again in January. Also, anybody who has had the old Fraxel and the new one, is the pain as bad with the new one?
Troubled
I'm not certain they would be classified as HT scars. They were raised, hard, red scars that developed after a recent acne type infection in hair follicles on my legs. I have never gotten anything like this on my face.
But, yes, they look great now. It took awhile to heal, first to level, and then for pigment to match. Now, I can't tell you where they were.
I'm not sure if I understand the hyperpigment question. I was very red after procedures and had no hyperpigmentation. It took a week or 2 to settle down. It made my overall skin color more uniformly tan, which I like.
Hope this helps.
just a updated post, its been about 3 or 4 days since my 1st fraxel (not sure to count the day i did the treatment or not)
things seem well today, i am a little less swolen but that doesn't bother me at all, i'm still red like someone with a really bad sunburn/tan. partial of my skin has dark brown patches, all the "scales" are still there except for where my whiteheads use to be, they all became dried up flakes that i am not going to pick off but just let it stay. i been putting on 100% pure aloe vera gel twice a day, and after showering today, i noticed that i was peeling or flaking a lot on the chin and lips area. a small part of the scale seems to have to come off on the right jawline cheek area on the bottom, and i can see a beautiful white new skin that is oh so soft, but then it got rough so i guess its still remodeling. i'm actually hoping that the scales would stay on for a long period of time, as long as possible for i guess think of it as a scab and the wound underneath is being healed. i am very itchy at times but i force myself to not scratch or touch. maybe its the swelling but my boxcar scars have responded very well, they are vitually gone except for the scar outlining of course. aside from that, i been just trying to eat healthy and take my vitamins. nothing new to report 'cept so far i'm thrilled with the results, i sure hope this will last and the dry patches/scales will stay on for as long as possible!
is it alright that the aloe vera burns on skin when it is applied?
Update: It has been 11 days. Skin is still red. I've been on and off with Obagi. Have not seen much improvement in pore size. I don't have large pores on my cheeks expcet in two small areas near my nose. My large chicken pox scar has minimize a lttle. It look like part of that scar is closed and the other half is a small chicken pox scar. I can still see all of the excision scars. From today I will stop the Obagi and continue to moistuerize with a thin layer of Aloe and regular lotion. Skin is sensitive and little bit raw right now. I have 17 days to heal before my next treatment.
Hi fellow Fraxelers! I called Dr. Kovak's office a little while ago and cancelled my next appointment, and asked for a refund. It's been 2 weeks since my Palomar treatment, and I haven't seen any improvements. In fact, I see a few new small scars that I'm not happy about. The Palomar may work for other people, but I don't think there's enough known about it to continue with it. I was recommended a doctor by the name of Dr. Manolis in Orland Park. Has anybody had Fraxel SR1500 done by him, and what do you think of him? I'm planning on calling for a consultation, and starting again in January. Also, anybody who has had the old Fraxel and the new one, is the pain as bad with the new one?
I just had my third Palomar 1540 treatment with Dr. Kovak in six weeks. I didn't notice much improvement after the first treatment, but the second helped quite a bit. I'm only having my cheeks done. I don't think the third treatment has helped as much. Sometimes I think I look five years younger (I'm 32), but when my skin is dehydrated the improvements to my enlarged/scared pores seem barely noticeable. I don't know the power settings he's using, but he says they're pretty high. The second treatment was definitely higher powered. It's not fun. He may have backed down for the third treatment because I didn't have as much swelling or any blood spots. I do feel it is misleading to use a Palomar laser for "Fraxel" treatments, but I'm going ahead with a fourth treatment in a few weeks because I think it's helping. I'm not sure what I'll do after that. Thanks for mentioning Dr. Manolis. I really hope he can help you.
Troubled
My Last treatment exceeded the amounts in your chart. I had 8 passes at 125 mtz at 25 mjs. Scarred areas were then treated with 2 passes at 125 at 30 mjs. I am starting to beome more pleased with my results. For me, I thought I had some nice early improvment, but I was fooling myself once this was tested by pre and post photos and VISIA. However, I don't think I am fooling myself now, as the skin continues to gradually evolve with slightly softer scars.
Yes Billyboy, I guess we could say you are an early pioneer of high treatment settings since you were treated at the highest levels I have heard of so far with the exception of Blaster. Believe it or not there are still many PS that fear going beyond power level 20 so you are blazing new trails for many!
Aside from the other possibilities we covered, I wonder if your delayed results had anything to do with a higher then usual thermal injury effect from those higher settings. That would be a good thing though since higher tissue injury usually yields better results but, it could at least in part explain the slow start.
I have a couple of questions for you that come to mind. If I remember correctly you said back in one of your posts that you had a few hypertrophic scars on your leg. Did Fraxel completely flatten those or was the improvement only partial? Also, now that that you have had more time to heal did Fraxel help with the hyperpigmentation at all? I am really glad to hear the results on your face continue to improve. 😀
Thanks Billyboy, I think I have the start of a couple of these too. From what you are describing they sound similar. Must be too much testosterone too hey 😎 How long did you have them? Do you think they were true scars and not just a long standing sebaceous infection? You can disregard the question about hyperpigmentation as it sounds like simply redness you were describing.
Hi fellow Fraxelers! I called Dr. Kovak's office a little while ago and cancelled my next appointment, and asked for a refund. It's been 2 weeks since my Palomar treatment, and I haven't seen any improvements. In fact, I see a few new small scars that I'm not happy about. The Palomar may work for other people, but I don't think there's enough known about it to continue with it. I was recommended a doctor by the name of Dr. Manolis in Orland Park. Has anybody had Fraxel SR1500 done by him, and what do you think of him? I'm planning on calling for a consultation, and starting again in January. Also, anybody who has had the old Fraxel and the new one, is the pain as bad with the new one?
I just had my third Palomar 1540 treatment with Dr. Kovak in six weeks. I didn't notice much improvement after the first treatment, but the second helped quite a bit. I'm only having my cheeks done. I don't think the third treatment has helped as much. Sometimes I think I look five years younger (I'm 32), but when my skin is dehydrated the improvements to my enlarged/scared pores seem barely noticeable. I don't know the power settings he's using, but he says they're pretty high. The second treatment was definitely higher powered. It's not fun. He may have backed down for the third treatment because I didn't have as much swelling or any blood spots. I do feel it is misleading to use a Palomar laser for "Fraxel" treatments, but I'm going ahead with a fourth treatment in a few weeks because I think it's helping. I'm not sure what I'll do after that. Thanks for mentioning Dr. Manolis. I really hope he can help you.
Did you have real bad blood spots after you had the treatment that was the highest one? That's what really scared the heck out of me. He told me it's o.k., but I don't want to go through that again. I wish you the best of luck with the Palomar!
I just had my third Palomar 1540 treatment with Dr. Kovak in six weeks. I didn't notice much improvement after the first treatment, but the second helped quite a bit. I'm only having my cheeks done. I don't think the third treatment has helped as much. Sometimes I think I look five years younger (I'm 32), but when my skin is dehydrated the improvements to my enlarged/scared pores seem barely noticeable. I don't know the power settings he's using, but he says they're pretty high. The second treatment was definitely higher powered. It's not fun. He may have backed down for the third treatment because I didn't have as much swelling or any blood spots. I do feel it is misleading to use a Palomar laser for "Fraxel" treatments, but I'm going ahead with a fourth treatment in a few weeks because I think it's helping. I'm not sure what I'll do after that. Thanks for mentioning Dr. Manolis. I really hope he can help you.
Just curious, are the Palomar treatments the same price as the Fraxel treatments? Someone said that the Fraxel machine cost about $100,000, and the Palomar cost $45,000 if I am remembering right. Thus, it seems like the Palomar treatments should cost less.
Isn't Obagi a peel? How can you do that so soon after a Fraxel??
Did Kovak say "Fraxel" or "Fractional Resurfacing"?
(The first is trademarked but the latter is a term like "photothermolysis" which can be used to describe any laser that treats the skin with microthermal zones.)
Hi fellow Fraxelers! I called Dr. Kovak's office a little while ago and cancelled my next appointment, and asked for a refund. It's been 2 weeks since my Palomar treatment, and I haven't seen any improvements. In fact, I see a few new small scars that I'm not happy about. The Palomar may work for other people, but I don't think there's enough known about it to continue with it. I was recommended a doctor by the name of Dr. Manolis in Orland Park. Has anybody had Fraxel SR1500 done by him, and what do you think of him? I'm planning on calling for a consultation, and starting again in January. Also, anybody who has had the old Fraxel and the new one, is the pain as bad with the new one?
I just had my third Palomar 1540 treatment with Dr. Kovak in six weeks. I didn't notice much improvement after the first treatment, but the second helped quite a bit. I'm only having my cheeks done. I don't think the third treatment has helped as much. Sometimes I think I look five years younger (I'm 32), but when my skin is dehydrated the improvements to my enlarged/scared pores seem barely noticeable. I don't know the power settings he's using, but he says they're pretty high. The second treatment was definitely higher powered. It's not fun. He may have backed down for the third treatment because I didn't have as much swelling or any blood spots. I do feel it is misleading to use a Palomar laser for "Fraxel" treatments, but I'm going ahead with a fourth treatment in a few weeks because I think it's helping. I'm not sure what I'll do after that. Thanks for mentioning Dr. Manolis. I really hope he can help you.
Did you have real bad blood spots after you had the treatment that was the highest one? That's what really scared the heck out of me. He told me it's o.k., but I don't want to go through that again. I wish you the best of luck with the Palomar!
My blood spots on the first and second treatments were small and dry. I didn't have any on my third treatment. I think I had half a dozen of them on my right cheek (my worst side) after the second (highest powered) treatment. He did several smaller radius passes instead of fewer, wide area shots. I went in on a Monday each time, and by Thursday the swelling and redness were gone. I'll report back on my progress.
I just had my third Palomar 1540 treatment with Dr. Kovak in six weeks. I didn't notice much improvement after the first treatment, but the second helped quite a bit. I'm only having my cheeks done. I don't think the third treatment has helped as much. Sometimes I think I look five years younger (I'm 32), but when my skin is dehydrated the improvements to my enlarged/scared pores seem barely noticeable. I don't know the power settings he's using, but he says they're pretty high. The second treatment was definitely higher powered. It's not fun. He may have backed down for the third treatment because I didn't have as much swelling or any blood spots. I do feel it is misleading to use a Palomar laser for "Fraxel" treatments, but I'm going ahead with a fourth treatment in a few weeks because I think it's helping. I'm not sure what I'll do after that. Thanks for mentioning Dr. Manolis. I really hope he can help you.
Just curious, are the Palomar treatments the same price as the Fraxel treatments? Someone said that the Fraxel machine cost about $100,000, and the Palomar cost $45,000 if I am remembering right. Thus, it seems like the Palomar treatments should cost less.
I pay $300 for cheek treatments with the Palomar laser. I expected it to cost more, and to his credit, Dr. Kovak doesn't limit the passes to my cheeks. He tries to even them out with the sides of my face. I think you can get six treatments for $1600 if you pay upfront, but I didn't go for that.
Isn't Obagi a peel? How can you do that so soon after a Fraxel??
Did Kovak say "Fraxel" or "Fractional Resurfacing"?
(The first is trademarked but the latter is a term like "photothermolysis" which can be used to describe any laser that treats the skin with microthermal zones.)
My doctor told me to. It is skincare and there are 6 steps to it plus Tazorac.
I just had my third Palomar 1540 treatment with Dr. Kovak in six weeks. I didn't notice much improvement after the first treatment, but the second helped quite a bit. I'm only having my cheeks done. I don't think the third treatment has helped as much. Sometimes I think I look five years younger (I'm 32), but when my skin is dehydrated the improvements to my enlarged/scared pores seem barely noticeable. I don't know the power settings he's using, but he says they're pretty high. The second treatment was definitely higher powered. It's not fun. He may have backed down for the third treatment because I didn't have as much swelling or any blood spots. I do feel it is misleading to use a Palomar laser for "Fraxel" treatments, but I'm going ahead with a fourth treatment in a few weeks because I think it's helping. I'm not sure what I'll do after that. Thanks for mentioning Dr. Manolis. I really hope he can help you.
Just curious, are the Palomar treatments the same price as the Fraxel treatments? Someone said that the Fraxel machine cost about $100,000, and the Palomar cost $45,000 if I am remembering right. Thus, it seems like the Palomar treatments should cost less.
I pay $300 for cheek treatments with the Palomar laser. I expected it to cost more, and to his credit, Dr. Kovak doesn't limit the passes to my cheeks. He tries to even them out with the sides of my face. I think you can get six treatments for $1600 if you pay upfront, but I didn't go for that.
I'm paying around 400 for Fraxel right now just on cheeks. I think that should be the value for fraxel treatments considering you'll have to have minimum of 3 to see some result.
Isn't Obagi a peel? How can you do that so soon after a Fraxel??
Did Kovak say "Fraxel" or "Fractional Resurfacing"?
(The first is trademarked but the latter is a term like "photothermolysis" which can be used to describe any laser that treats the skin with microthermal zones.)
He talked about "Fraxel", but it's possible he uses that word in the same sense that some people use "Kleenex" for tissue paper. I was a little confused when he explained Fraxel at my initial consultation because he mentioned there were two types: Fractional 1540 and an older, less effective laser (the real Fraxel perhaps?). Now I understand that 1540 is Palomar. When I went for my first treatment I thought he would apply the blue dye, and I was looking for a Reliant logo on the machine. We live in a world where you can't serve Pepsi to a person who asks for Coke, so I think he could do a better job of explaining that Fraxel is a Reliant brand, and that he uses Palomar. Is the deception intentional? I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.