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What do you think of these Fraxel results?
I got these from http://www.lookandfeelbetter.com/gallery/glry.htm#fraxel
Cameron
Blaster does not know this with 100% certainty. However, I trust his opinion because:
1. He has done a lot of research of medical papers on the subject and seems very knowledgeable.
2. He has experienced Fraxel first hand.
3. Each of his points make sense intuitively.
4. He has no reason to mislead us.
I would really like to see his pre an post pictures because I believe he is getting the optimal treatment for scars. My treatments were suboptimal in my view, but I am still reasonably pleased. But, again, I would say I have maybe a 20% improvement in scars. I'm 55 now and I have started to go to beach and do lake activities, so this no doubt hurts my response.
I can't resist the sun (have been using 50 sunblock on face, but I still tan), in part, because this is where I shine. Moreover, I needed to return to my bikini inspector duties.
Awhile back, a young man posted his woe about losing his GF because of scarred skin. I replied it takes time and money to get modest improvement. So, first don't do stupid things to your body and mind by doing drugs, alcohol, and tobacco. I grew up in the sixties, so I know how stupid this stuff is, and partly why I have scarring today. Second, work on improving your body, as that is easier to fix than scars. When you have your body in shape, get back in the GF game by spending time without a shirt on. A nice male chest attracts women almost as well as a female chest attracts men. Some of you might take offense, but I have attached a photo of me and my wife (now 30 + years together) in Hawaii to celebrate my 40th Bday (w/o the kids!). I'm trying to illustrate the point that, even with my bad skin, you can do fine, but you need to work on that too.
Thanks, I work hard to keep the pkg from drifting lower from gravity. I decided to become this way after I got dumped by GF after I graduated from high school, which I blamed on my facial skin. That is the acne scar connection.
To be candid, I know everyone is looking at me at the beach, etc., just like I check out bikinis. I am way ok with female ogling, but I have a hard time when I sense a gay guy is eyeing me.
I would be willing to work really hard to fix my scars, but my experience is that staying buff is way easier than fixing scars.
I have spoken to my doctor in Melb Australia a great deal about treatment options, and have also seen photos of patients he has treated. Initially (1 year ago) the skin centre treated people at a starting level of 15-20mj.
Recently in the last 4 months they changed their initial treatment level to 25-30mj. I have to say looking at the photos there is a difference in results. The docs reason this to the energy penetrating to a deeper level in the dermis thus causing more remodelling of the collagen. This is of particular benefit to scar patients where the most critical change is required in the dermal level. If you google 'fraxel acne scars' you should find a few pdf results of studies done on this. Also I have posted in the earlier parts of this thread some of these findings.
I have also spoken to a few people here in Melb who had starting treatments at 25-30mJ and who have had more intense treatments than I have. They generally see an initial improvement level of between 25-35%. These are at initial stages and true results can only be measured at around the 3 month mark as collagen doesn't grow overnight!
I can only reflect the studies and general consensus and results of people who treat at high levels. Results vary based on the individual. What I can recommend is that people who are treating with fraxel push for the highest levels they can tolerate. At low levels people will likely feel less bang for the buck.
Blaster
3. Fraxel is only good for acne scars at high settings with multiple treatments. When I mean high, I mean real high. Ideal results require treatments at 25-30mj with 6 or more treatments. That tends to net on average around 40% improvement (which is a lot with all things considered).
How do you know this?
I'm still happy. 
I've had good results with Fraxel. I plan to continue with them - indefinitely if I'm given a good price.
I just scheduled my 4th Fraxel for 8-29-06. Thanks to Blaster, and anyone else I'm forgetting, this time I will request Level 25 and up. I think you're right about the Levels needing to be higher for the Acne Scar crowd. Although I have a high tolerance for pain I'M NOT A MASOCHIST!!. Hee hee. In addition to the one percocet and the numbing gel I need more for that level. I requested numbing injections and I'll ask for a nerve block if I can.
@#$@ that kind of pain, give me drugs. 
I'm sorry Cameron that you didn't have the results you wanted. I think I saw your pictures and I think I objectively said I saw improvement. You're a good looking guy regardless and I just hope you know that. 
[EDIT] I DID SEE YOUR PHOTOS awhile ago!! Looking at the first photo right now and scooting down to the last, made me come back and edit my post. 
Through all the procedures you have had done, at least you have an incredible improvement. I still have to take a closer look at the Fraxel pics.
[EDIT EDIT] You don't have dates on your Fraxel treatments or before photos so it is a little hard to truly judge. But I compared the post Fraxel photos to the set before it. 09/19/2005 - Semi-Harsh Lighting -vs- Fraxel Semi-Harsh Lighting #2. I think they are closest in lighting and distance and camera angle. All of which are big facctors. Based on those photos, I would say it was below moderate results. I see results and some scars have filled in. Your face also looks much softer. How many Fraxels did you do Cameron?
What do you think of these Fraxel results?
I got these from http://www.lookandfeelbetter.com/gallery/glry.htm#fraxel
Hey I saw these on the Fraxel website, they are impressive, as are the other b & a shots, but my scars are nowhere near that bad so now I am left wondering if you will see as much improvement for only minimal scarring.
One thing tho, after reading the posts on here I don't feel like an over-sensitive dick head, it seems that bad skin destroys everyone's confidence- killer
Hi Annie,
Take note, at level 25, downtime is longer, redness last longer and is more intense. There is possiblity of pinpoint bleeding and it's likely you will not look presentable for around 3-4 days. Swelling will also be more intense. Woman's skin is thinner so there may be higher likelyhood of pin-point bleeding. Nothing to worry about; it's not noticable after 2 days.
The good news is due to thermal conditioning, your skin might tolerate it better as you have had prior treatments. Make sure the total energy applied to your face is greated than your last treatment.
Blaster
I'm still happy.
I've had good results with Fraxel. I plan to continue with them - indefinitely if I'm given a good price.
I just scheduled my 4th Fraxel for 8-29-06. Thanks to Blaster, and anyone else I'm forgetting, this time I will request Level 25 and up. I think you're right about the Levels needing to be higher for the Acne Scar crowd. Although I have a high tolerance for pain I'M NOT A MASOCHIST!!. Hee hee. In addition to the one percocet and the numbing gel I need more for that level. I requested numbing injections and I'll ask for a nerve block if I can.
@#$@ that kind of pain, give me drugs.
How fraxel can make scars or pores worse if you're not careful:
The MTZs (microscopic thermal zones) are not really microscopic. At 100 microns in diameter they are twice the size of the average pore. The smallest mark the human eye can see is 30-40 microns. They are not visible right after treatment because they are under the epidermis (which is spared from coagulation).
Now, the MENDS (microscopic necrotic debris) are basically the scabs that form over the MTZs. They are clearly visible in this picture: http://www.bcm.edu/dermatology/?pmid=4263
After the MENDS flake off at one month the skin is completely healed without new scarring from these micro-wounds.
However the healing of MTZs can be interfered with leading to poor renewal of tissue. Also, If the density setting is high and there are multiple passes the MTZs can get laid down too close together creating FMN (focal macroscopic necrosis). I believe this is what causes pinpoint bleeding in patients who get high settings with multiple passes. It usually leads to heavy bronzing and flaking, increased downtime, and the need for longer periods in between treatments in order for skin to fully heal.
To be candid, I know everyone is looking at me at the beach, etc., just like I check out bikinis. I am way ok with female ogling, but I have a hard time when I sense a gay guy is eyeing me.
That's only natural, darlin'!
I would be willing to work really hard to fix my scars, but my experience is that staying buff is way easier than fixing scars.
It also gives you sense of accomplishment and triumph over your body - which is just as important as your face & over which you have control and can see immediate results. Why focus just on the ONE area that is so very difficult to fix and let the rest of you go to hell? Very psychologically (and physically!) sound advice, Bill. And by the way, you and your wife are ADORABLE! No doubt your daughters are equally stunning!
I'm sorry Cameron that you didn't have the results you wanted. I think I saw your pictures and I think I objectively said I saw improvement. You're a good looking guy regardless and I just hope you know that. :wavey:
[EDIT] I DID SEE YOUR PHOTOS awhile ago!! Looking at the first photo right now and scooting down to the last, made me come back and edit my post. :hand: Through all the procedures you have had done, at least you have an incredible improvement. I still have to take a closer look at the Fraxel pics.
[EDIT EDIT] You don't have dates on your Fraxel treatments or before photos so it is a little hard to truly judge. But I compared the post Fraxel photos to the set before it. 09/19/2005 - Semi-Harsh Lighting -vs- Fraxel Semi-Harsh Lighting #2. I think they are closest in lighting and distance and camera angle. All of which are big facctors. Based on those photos, I would say it was below moderate results. I see results and some scars have filled in. Your face also looks much softer. How many Fraxels did you do Cameron?
Thanks, Annie. I do appreciate it, but I'm not convinced I've seen any results after my 4 treatments or even since the very beginning. I'm not happy with the pictures I've taken because they're too far away and the angles and lighting are slightly different in each one. I tried over and over again, but that's as close as I could get. Even the two pictures you mentioned are not comparable because in one the shadow is a little darker. Also, for some reason, my camera doesn't take good clear closeups, showing my rolling scars the way I see them. The pictures my dermatologist took though are very clear, and the lighting is brutal. When I wasn't fantasizing about shooting my face off, I was able to compare individual scars, and I couldn't see any difference. And by the way, if you navigate using the links in the right frame, you can see all the dates.
i have some shallow scarring, a few red marks, and a general redness in my face (i just finished accutane 6 months ago)
would fraxel help with this slight scarring and redness... or does fraxel make redness worse?
(i think my redness is partially natural, and also due to accutane)
thanks guys 
I went to CA Skin Laser Center (Dr Bock) in Stockton, even though I live in Alamo. I selected them for 3 reasons; lower price than Bay Area docs, Dr. Bock was good about responding to my email questions (often the response was composed by a nurse, but was helpful nonetheless), and he found a couple acne scar patients that I could speak to for references.
I was pretty happy. I really liked the nurses. After my first session, they were pretty flexible in performing the procedure at the levels I requested.
The downside is the distance and that procedure is done by nurse, not Doc. I don't think you need a Doc for this procedure, unless there are issues. Also, although they told me that most of their Fraxel caseload is acne scarring, I know I was treated at higher levels than any prior patient. Yet, I was way below Blater and others in Australia. I don't know if they do injections for pain. I'm a tough old guy as to pain, so I can take most things thrown at me.
I don't know if you saw my prior pcitures. I had to downgrade pixel quality and size to reduce file size. Also, they are 15 years old. If you will look closely, you will see that I have a red central face, compared to tan elsewhere. This progressed over the last 15 years (mild case of rosacea/seb derm). The fraxel solved this issue and I am really happy with the even skin color and texture after treatment. However, at this point I believe my improvement in scarring is minimal, 20% max.
I am waiting to decide wheter to go for more, or call an end to acne scar treatment.
I don't know if you saw my prior pcitures. I had to downgrade pixel quality and size to reduce file size. Also, they are 15 years old. If you will look closely, you will see that I have a red central face, compared to tan elsewhere. This progressed over the last 15 years (mild case of rosacea/seb derm). The fraxel solved this issue and I am really happy with the even skin color and texture after treatment. However, at this point I believe my improvement in scarring is minimal, 20% max.
I am waiting to decide wheter to go for more, or call an end to acne scar treatment.
Yes, I agree Billyboy..... My skin texture and redness is SO much improved. (Had my 7th treatment at moderate levels 2 weeks ago). But, I guess it depends on the person and what kind of improvement they are looking for. My scarring has improved, but not super dramatically. And I think the fact that the rest of my face looks so good contributes to the overall sense of better skin. I had god-awful redness and flaking on my face for a year after my retin-a disaster and it is all gone. Just for that alone I am glad I tried Fraxel.
I'm going to have 3 more treatments at at least level 20 spaced three weeks apart. Then I think I'm done. I might look at other options to treat a few rolling scars. Maybe spot dermabrasion or needling.
I know people reading this thread want a concrete answer to whether or not to do Fraxel but I don't think any of us can provide that. If you can afford it, I'd definitely recommend it. If you have to mortgage your house to do 4 treatments, I think you might be disappointed.
Widgie
It sounds like we have similar feelings about efficacy. I feel the improved texture and color, which make me younger, are well worth the $2,800 and downtime. In Sept, I will post pre/post and ask people to rate scar improvement. I should not have biased the response. Also, I think it is possible that I have more improvment than I realize.
Eisley
Good luck. I'm glad they are close for you. It was about 70 miles each way for me. Tell them Billyboy sent you. I am not sure if Dr Bock will make the connection, but I think the nurses will.
Butterflies
Something probably got miswired in my brain at birth, because I think my daughters look best in string bikinis. Wow, I don't think I could handle being a teenage boy again, with the way high school girls dress now. On the other hand, I grew up with really short miniskirts, so I guess it has always been the fashion for girls to tease boys.
It's a good thing I live in CA rather than the mideast or really conservative sections of US.
In that respect, Fraxel is no different than any other skin treatment...even topicals. My scarring was caused by using Retin-A. We all know that Retin-A is a godsend for some acne sufferers. In my case, it ruined my skin. When asking 'why did this happen?' to various derms and my PS, no one had an answer.
Hi Widgie - I think my skin got worst as well from Retin-A. At first I was blown away by how great it was working. Then my skin started to give an unnatural shine where I was using it on my temples. Finally my skin was looking quite bad so I stopped using it all together.
My question to you is, did Fraxel help smooth out your scars where Retin-A did damage?
In that respect, Fraxel is no different than any other skin treatment...even topicals. My scarring was caused by using Retin-A. We all know that Retin-A is a godsend for some acne sufferers. In my case, it ruined my skin. When asking 'why did this happen?' to various derms and my PS, no one had an answer.
Hi Widgie - I think my skin got worst as well from Retin-A. At first I was blown away by how great it was working. Then my skin started to give an unnatural shine where I was using it on my temples. Finally my skin was looking quite bad so I stopped using it all together.
My question to you is, did Fraxel help smooth out your scars where Retin-A did damage?
Yes and no.... I have shallow scarring all over my face....the deeper ones (still not really DEEP) have all shown improvement to some degree, but have not been eliminated. I know I posted somewhere in this monster thread that I had this weird web-like scarring on some areas. It looked ok until you pulled the skin flat and then I could see a bunch of tiny scars that looked like lacework. Strange. But the Fraxel almost completely eliminated that. And the improvement to my skin tone is really amazing. The Retin-a turned my face into a red, scaly, irritated mess that lasted long after I stopped using it. My skin is now flake free and all the same color. I NEVER thought it would look like that again. I'm probably going to look into other options to improve the scarring even more after I finish up with the Fraxels, but I can't complain about the results either. They were definitely within my (realistic) expectations.
Widgie
What options are you going to try?
If my Sept. pictures don't reveal much improvement, I will either throw in the towel or perhaps try needling. I have a several scarred pores on center face that are amenable to needling, while most of my real scars are on left jaw/cheek. I don't think i can treat those because they are not visible in mirror shots where I would tryst myself, and I won't ask my wife or daughters to do it. They are already pissed that I am "wasting time and money on a nonissue", so they might try to needle me deep, if you know what I mean.
If I see improvement, I might sign up for another 4 Fraxels, at high levels.
They wouldn't dare! They think you look great, and you DO, but deep down they know you are only looking for personal improvement and that IS admirable and worthy of support. It's nice to know you're in a place where the people who love you and whom you care about most think you're fine just as you are. Would that we all STARTED from such a spot of acceptance & then whatever improvement we get is just icing on the cake. Please do keep us posted, Bill, with whatever you decide to do as your posts are most informative! (why don't you tell your family that WE need you to keep this up!)