One week.

I have been giving it a lot of thought and I'm reluctant to spend $4500 more dollars this year on something that I'm not even sure will help my scarring all that much. (Where I go, it's $900 for each session and, although I'm only scheduled for two more, everyone here says you have to do at least 6, which would be 5 more for me since I've only done one).

I've been considering waiting six months to see if there really will be any difference down the line before I sign up for more, instead of going into it somewhat blindly.

It's kind of hard battling the scars when the treatment for the scars is aggravating the acne that causes the scars in the first place. In the two weeks since my fraxel, I've broken out more around my chin and mouth area more than I have in a very, very long time. I look and feel hideous because of my new crop of 20-30 zits in just about the most obvious place on my face.

So, if it takes 6 months for the collagen to kick in, then I won't know until around November if it did actually do any good or not. Maybe then, at that time, I'll re-assess if all that money was worth it. Right now, I'm thinking that blowing our family vacation fund wasn't worth it.

 

I completely understand your position. But I would hang in there if you can. I have been feeling a little down since my first treatment as well. I broke out a bit and also got a cold sore. That plus the flaking and redness has been tough. From every source that I've seen, you won't see results after one treatment. I think the average is about 3 treatments. Maybe you can stick it out for three and then reassess the results?

Also, I've been taking B5 vitamin powder and it has helped to control my breakouts a lot. Not a miracle by any means but it really works for some people.

This is a very difficult thing to go through, but there are lots of us doing it and that provides me with a small measure of comfort. I really hope things start to improve for you. 🙂

 

Hi Widgie,

Pls. ask your doctor to prescribe Zovirax or Valtrax for cold sores. Normally, it is to be started 2 days before the treatment and continued for a week. In some people, facial injury can trigger cold sores. Though I never had it, I have routinely taken it before all chemical peels and initial 4 Fraxel treatments as a precautionary measure. My doctor who did chemical peels was especially particular about this.

Hi Widgie,

Pls. ask your doctor to prescribe Zovirax or Valtrax for cold sores. Normally, it is to be started 2 days before the treatment and continued for a week. In some people, facial injury can trigger cold sores. Though I never had it, I have routinely taken it before all chemical peels and initial 4 Fraxel treatments as a precautionary measure. My doctor who did chemical peels was especially particular about this.

 

Thanks, I'm actually on Valtrax and have been on a daily pill for a year. And I got one anyway...:(

However, I think I just need to up the dosage during these treatments, I am SO prone to getting them that they recommended that I double or triple how much I take throughout the healing phase.

The good news is that it dried up and went away pretty quickly...no scarring, just residual flakies.

I agree with your doctor, the virus can remain dormant in your system without a person ever experiencing an outbreak. Fraxel is causing trauma under the skin and that's all it could take to activate the virus. I think everyone should take this precaution because trust me, it's not fun to experience.

 

Would someone ask their doctor how they sterilize the fraxel laser head?

I was shocked when I asked this of my laser hair removal tech. All they did was wipe it off!

 

I found this quote on the reliant website:

"The laser hand piece features two unique disposable tips to facilitate treatment."

So I think they are one use only.....but I'll ask when I have my treatment this afternoon.

 

They aren't one use. They are good for a certain number of uses before they need to be discarded. The machine is supposed to track the wear but it can happen in the middle of the procedure. One post on here said the patient felt the pain go away and asked the MD "are you sure it's working?" The MD was like "oh, the tip just expired."

I know the fda protocols for laser hair removal say they are not required to sterilize the head, just clean it. This is supposedly because there is no blood.

I don't know if the same protocol is in place for fraxel. It is supposed to be for wrinkles and sun damage. But at the off-label settings used for acne scarring a lot of people get pinpoint bleeding . . .

Also sterlization is expensive and not possible on some materials.

Makes me not want to get it done even if it works!

 

 

Would someone ask their doctor how they sterilize the fraxel laser head?

I was shocked when I asked this of my laser hair removal tech. All they did was wipe it off!

 

I found this quote on the reliant website:

"The laser hand piece features two unique disposable tips to facilitate treatment."

So I think they are one use only.....but I'll ask when I have my treatment this afternoon.

 

They aren't one use. They are good for a certain number of uses before they need to be discarded. The machine is supposed to track the wear but it can happen in the middle of the procedure. One post on here said the patient felt the pain go away and asked the MD "are you sure it's working?" The MD was like "oh, the tip just expired."

I know the fda protocols for laser hair removal say they are not required to sterilize the head, just clean it. This is supposedly because there is no blood.

I don't know if the same protocol is in place for fraxel. It is supposed to be for wrinkles and sun damage. But at the off-label settings used for acne scarring a lot of people get pinpoint bleeding . . .

Also sterlization is expensive and not possible on some materials.

Makes me not want to get it done even if it works!

 

While reading it and thinking more, a thought came to my mind. Will it be self sterlizing ? In the sense, when tip emits laser beam, significant heat must be getting produced and that would automatically kill viruses and micro-organisms ? So, even if there is pin point bleeding and tip comes in contact, viruses won't be able to survive longer. But this would be definitely an interesting question to ask.

One week.

I have been giving it a lot of thought and I'm reluctant to spend $4500 more dollars this year on something that I'm not even sure will help my scarring all that much. (Where I go, it's $900 for each session and, although I'm only scheduled for two more, everyone here says you have to do at least 6, which would be 5 more for me since I've only done one).

I've been considering waiting six months to see if there really will be any difference down the line before I sign up for more, instead of going into it somewhat blindly.

It's kind of hard battling the scars when the treatment for the scars is aggravating the acne that causes the scars in the first place. In the two weeks since my fraxel, I've broken out more around my chin and mouth area more than I have in a very, very long time. I look and feel hideous because of my new crop of 20-30 zits in just about the most obvious place on my face.

So, if it takes 6 months for the collagen to kick in, then I won't know until around November if it did actually do any good or not. Maybe then, at that time, I'll re-assess if all that money was worth it. Right now, I'm thinking that blowing our family vacation fund wasn't worth it.

 

In my general skin care experiences, whenever my skin has become dry in any way, the breakouts always appear. For example if I use any product containing salicylic acid my skin will become dry, but not flake or exfoliate at all. Dry on any level causes me to breakout immediately. I have to stick with glycolics because I know they are strong enough to work on me. From the beginning of my Fraxel treatments, which started off in the 11-20 range, I've been swollen, red, then brown and shed like a snake. I have milia that instantly comes to the surface and maybe one or two irritated milia - pimples from the oils and creams but that's it. My skin has pretty much stopped breaking out and normalized. not too oily and not too dry. I think if I had lower settings just because _ _ _ _ _ _ , I would experience the same thing you are. :think:

I wonder if having too low of a setting, could have been enough to dry out your skin helping create more breakouts and not exfoliate it. Is your skin more experienced with peels and procedures? Mine is and because of that usually I need a stronger, jack hammer approach - to chip off that dry, tougher outer layer of skin. Maybe you should ask the office exactly what setting they used. I'd be interested to know what level they stayed with. They really should tell you.

Either way I think you're right about considering holding off on more Fraxels, you aren't sure of. I hate to point this out but I'm not sure you will see any dramatic change after just one treatment either that will help you change your mind. :wall:

Jamesjoyce

Why did you post "But at the off label settings used for acne scarring"? Fraxel was recently approved by FDA as to safety and efficacy for treatment of acne scarring. I take comfort in knowing that the clinical trial data submitted to FDA shows that this procedure works for acne scarring.

Would someone ask their doctor how they sterilize the fraxel laser head?

I was shocked when I asked this of my laser hair removal tech. All they did was wipe it off!

 

EW! Damn, I wish I didn't know that.

I wonder if having too low of a setting, could have been enough to dry out your skin helping create more breakouts and not exfoliate it. Is your skin more experienced with peels and procedures? Mine is and because of that usually I need a stronger, jack hammer approach - to chip off that dry, tougher outer layer of skin. Maybe you should ask the office exactly what setting they used. I'd be interested to know what level they stayed with. They really should tell you.

 

Well, you may have a point there. I know that she told me that they approach the settings more conservatively than other practices. She also said that the setting perameters vary from office to office, so I have no idea what the energy output was, only that they did the 250 pixel coverage on most of the face and only 125 pixel in the most sensitive places. I was red and dry for a few days but I didn't get all that flaking and peeling everyone is talking about. One week post treatment, you'd never know I had anything done. The other thing is, right after the procedure, they told me to come back about 5 days later to get a microdermabrasion but when I called the office, the secretary wanted to schedule it a week out, which would have done no good that late. I don't have a lot of experience with peels but had been doing cooltouch for 5 weeks prior to the fraxel so maybe that counts. I went in today for a cooltouch appointment (another $500) and decided that I would do only one more fraxel for now and re-assess in the fall. I plan on going back to work part time so that I can pay for the lasers out of my own pocket instead of dipping into our family savings account.

I did find a place in town that does smoothbeam for less money and I have a free consultation in a couple days. I am hoping I can convince her to be more aggressive in my treatments in order to get effective results. She mentioned doing it in alteration with AHA peels (I can't remember what they are called) and that may be a cheaper route for me until I can get a job to pay for the fraxels.

The other thing is that both my kids play soccer and I am outside a lot in the summer, so even with all the precautions, it is still very diffictult to keep the sun off of me all the time. And that only seems to aggravate the healing process of the fraxel.

I wanted to thank you for replying to me -- a lot of people ignore my posts on this thread (I've only had 3 that I can remember) and I appreciate your encouragement. Thanks!

🙂

Susan, I would love to do it your way. That way you can work out if there are any nasty side effects on your skin etc. However with just one, you woudlnt see much improvement. I am going to try 3 or 4. Give it a rest and then try some later. The recovery time was longer than i expected. Dont know if you've answered this before. But how come you're trying different lasers?

Well, it's sort of longish story, LOL.

I used to take low dose long term accutane -- just 20mg once a week kept my acne in check most of the time even though I was supposed to take 20mg twice a week. Because of the iPledge and because my Dermatologist had already told me that he wanted me to take a break from accutane for awhile (he is cautious and I appreciate that), he suggested I stop taking it and try alternative treatments. We had discussed smoothbeam so he referred me to a very good plastic surgeon in our area that specializes in face only cosmetic procedures and has a smoothbeam (machine?) thing.

So I went there and did smoothbeam every two weeks for three sessions. I was supposed to do at least 6 before being re-assessed for a CO2 peel. In the interim, I had an appointment with my Dermatologist and we discussed what I thought of the smoothbeam, the cost, etc. He was concerned that they were charging too much and encouraged me to get a second opinion. He also told me he had recently been to a large Dermatology seminar where treatments for acne was the main topic. Accutane and iPledge were discussed for one thing. The other was the use of lasers for acne. He said that it was very informative for him as lasers were never his area of expertise -- the only one he owned and used was Vbeam. So he was excited about the discussion regarding PDT. He suggested I go to another plastic surgeon in our area who is a well-respected authority on laser treatments of all kinds. The Key Laser Institute is THE place to go for good laser treatment for cosmetic purposes.

I had a consultation with Dr. Key and we discussed my history, my accutane use, my experience with smoothbeam and my Dermatologist's recommendation for an opinion on PDT. He looked at my face and said that he didn't think PDT was the proper treatment for my level of acne and scarring at this time. He said my scarring and sun damage was mild compared to the people he usually prescribes PDT. He suggested cooltouch for 4 sessions to clear my acne and/or get it under control and then fraxel for the scarring. He said that Fraxel also helps clear acne too, since it also shrinks the sebaceous glands. They did give me a treatment plan with the costs outlined. I was a bit overwhelmed but wanted to give it a try.

I did do cooltouch once a week for four weeks and, after the fourth treatment, I did have fairly clear skin for over a week with no new break outs. So the next step was that I was supposed to go in, get a cooltouch and then fraxel in the same appointment. After researching it and listening to everyone's comments here, I thought that would be too intense to double them up. So I spaced them apart by a few days. You've read my account of how the Fraxel went. I was somewhat optimistic until this last week. I expected and was not surprised by some of the initial breakouts because of the creams and everything. And for the most part, they were manageable since they were very little and close to the surface. Easy. But then I continued to break out in larger, deeper, more stubborn acne. Once the first week was over and I was no longer dry, I stared to use my acne topical medicine again but it only dried my face out and did not clear up the increasing acne. I realize this last week has been my PMS week and that may be part to blame but it's like I can't get a friggin' break.

I look in the mirror and I look worse than I have in a couple years (at least), and my face has just been hurting even when I'm not looking at it. And I think, I have paid $4150 to date on all my cumulated laser treatments and I look worse than ever, yet I'm still slated to spend at least another $1800 to $4500 with absolutely no gaurantees. I feel selfish. I have children and we are not going on a family vacation this year because I want to make my acne and my scars go away. And how realistic is that? Even if I manage to get it under control, will I have to do this weekly (with regard to some kind of laser in one form or another) indefinitely? I'm at a loss.

So, I was thinking of that one last option of having someone else do the smoothbeam, who does not cost as much, who may treat it more aggressively than the first smoothbeam place. I would love for her to take the same approach as the girl who does my cooltouch. The only issue I have with the cooltouch is the cost ($500 each time). Doing Smoothbeam every other week($175 each time), alternated with mild chemical peels($??) every other week is still spendy but a whole heckofa lot cheaper than where I go now.

That's why I want to wait on Fraxel. If I do go back and do it again, I'd rather it be in the fall after I get a job and can pay for it with my paycheck instead of taking more money from our family savings. My only concession for now is to give it one more try in the next couple of weeks before putting it on hold. And, perhaps in the fall, I can try PDT before doing Fraxel again.

You can see why, when all is said and done, I'd much rather go back on low dose accutane which gave me no side effects other than some mild dryness and was systemic so it kept my back and chest clear too, not just my face. And each Rx only cost me a $50 copay. Much much cheaper and much much more effective. And my face never constantly hurt on accutane like it does with retinoid creams and lasers and all this other stuff they're having me do. The cheaper and more effective treatment is, for me, a much better choice. But I'm trying to be a trooper and try other treatments while taking a break from the accutane and while my doctor decides how to deal with the iPledge mess for my situation, because it's not a typical treatment to do low dose long term -- it's a tricky thing.

Now that I've written an entire book, LOL, you can see the history of my laser experiences, all of which has occurred in the last 3 months!! But you probably fell asleep halfway through it, LOL. It's crazy.

Jamesjoyce

Why did you post "But at the off label settings used for acne scarring"? Fraxel was recently approved by FDA as to safety and efficacy for treatment of acne scarring. I take comfort in knowing that the clinical trial data submitted to FDA shows that this procedure works for acne scarring.

 

That just happened in the last few weeks. The current cleaning protocols (under which everyone here has been getting fraxel done) were most likely set with the idea that the procedure is bloodless (which it is at low settings).

Bottom line is that if your laser head has ever gotten any blood on it and hasn't been medically sterilized (sterilization is a complex process different from cleaning) then you are being exposed to blood born pathogens.

anne

We both use laser skin solutions in west palm. I had my series of 5 treatments almost a year before you started yours and it seems like we had similer levels of improvements. the bad news is we still have acne scars the good news is the improvements we DO get seem to stick. I have had 2 rounds of Sculptra (also at laser skin solutions) and that is even SLOWER then Fraxel but it is slowly doing a good job of plumping up my sunken areas ie cheeks and sides of lower chin. You have nice full balanced features so I dont think Sculptra would do you much good for you. I also have had a modest boost to my acne scar improvements (after Fraxel my very worst scars got aleast 30% improvement and I would say they appear even flatter now and I am over 40% improvement to my worst scars) I will have another round in a few weeks and MAYBE a 4th mid summer. I still think I will need a filler TOUCH UP to get the Ulitimate level of improvment i want which is about 75% I find that at that level I look good EVEN IN BAD LIGHT! LOL are you done with Fraxel for now? Tim in west palm.

 

I wonder if having too low of a setting, could have been enough to dry out your skin helping create more breakouts and not exfoliate it. Is your skin more experienced with peels and procedures? Mine is and because of that usually I need a stronger, jack hammer approach - to chip off that dry, tougher outer layer of skin. Maybe you should ask the office exactly what setting they used. I'd be interested to know what level they stayed with. They really should tell you.

 

Well, you may have a point there. I know that she told me that they approach the settings more conservatively than other practices. She also said that the setting perameters vary from office to office, so I have no idea what the energy output was, only that they did the 250 pixel coverage on most of the face and only 125 pixel in the most sensitive places. I was red and dry for a few days but I didn't get all that flaking and peeling everyone is talking about. One week post treatment, you'd never know I had anything done. The other thing is, right after the procedure, they told me to come back about 5 days later to get a microdermabrasion but when I called the office, the secretary wanted to schedule it a week out, which would have done no good that late. I don't have a lot of experience with peels but had been doing cooltouch for 5 weeks prior to the fraxel so maybe that counts. I went in today for a cooltouch appointment (another $500) and decided that I would do only one more fraxel for now and re-assess in the fall. I plan on going back to work part time so that I can pay for the lasers out of my own pocket instead of dipping into our family savings account.

I did find a place in town that does smoothbeam for less money and I have a free consultation in a couple days. I am hoping I can convince her to be more aggressive in my treatments in order to get effective results. She mentioned doing it in alteration with AHA peels (I can't remember what they are called) and that may be a cheaper route for me until I can get a job to pay for the fraxels.

The other thing is that both my kids play soccer and I am outside a lot in the summer, so even with all the precautions, it is still very diffictult to keep the sun off of me all the time. And that only seems to aggravate the healing process of the fraxel.

I wanted to thank you for replying to me -- a lot of people ignore my posts on this thread (I've only had 3 that I can remember) and I appreciate your encouragement. Thanks!

🙂

Your welcome 🙂

I'm surprised they wanted to schedule a microdermabrasion that soon afterwards. Do you know how long they have actually had the machine in their office? When I was looking around down here, that's the #1 question I asked. With anything new, it's always a matter of trial and error for some time. They don't instantly know what works. They have to put some time in it and experience it to see what techniques and levels bring optimal results for different patients. 😉

Some of the recommendations I've read online usually mention an "Avoid _ _ _ _ for 2 weeks before and 2 weeks after". The office I go to does a Vibraderm like a couple of weeks before the 1st treatment and I think they do another one after all the treatments are done. They also use the Vibraderm paddle on the day of treatment to help infuse the numbing gel but that's it.

I was reading one of the PDF documents Reliant has on their site and they said undertreatment can be a problem too. I feel if the place you are going doesn't have a pro-active approach you are content with and they're more comfortable being ultra-conservative, it seems to me, they don't have enough experience or something is missing. That's ALOT of frickin money to spend to be conservative. I'd bail.

I'm glad you found somewhere else to go for your smoothbeams. I don't have any experience or knowledge of them but I hope it works out for you. I think it's always a great idea, to get second opinions. If you aren't happy with the way things are going, keep an eye out for some place better out there and hold on to your money in the interim.

As for that darn sun, I feel your pain. 😥 I've lived in South Florida all my life and it's just impossible to avoid. Thinking towards my future, I've been trying to stay in the shade for a few years now. I work in a Cardiology office and we have an elderly crowd of patients that come in. I see the effects of a lifetime in the sun on their skin and it ain't pretty. Brown, leathery, spotted skin with the probability of skin cancer doesn't interest me at all. It's scary. Especially with the Fraxels, I'm on top of the SPF and very, very careful these days.

Good Luck :wavey:

anne

We both use laser skin solutions in west palm. I had my series of 5 treatments almost a year before you started yours and it seems like we had similer levels of improvements. the bad news is we still have acne scars the good news is the improvements we DO get seem to stick. I have had 2 rounds of Sculptra (also at laser skin solutions) and that is even SLOWER then Fraxel but it is slowly doing a good job of plumping up my sunken areas ie cheeks and sides of lower chin. You have nice full balanced features so I dont think Sculptra would do you much good for you. I also have had a modest boost to my acne scar improvements (after Fraxel my very worst scars got aleast 30% improvement and I would say they appear even flatter now and I am over 40% improvement to my worst scars) I will have another round in a few weeks and MAYBE a 4th mid summer. I still think I will need a filler TOUCH UP to get the Ulitimate level of improvment i want which is about 75% I find that at that level I look good EVEN IN BAD LIGHT! LOL are you done with Fraxel for now? Tim in west palm.

 

Hi Tim,

How have you been stranger? :wavey: I'm very happy to see your treatments have gone well. Judging by your photos on the Reliant site and on the Laser Skin Solutions site, I'd say you are being conservative with the 30% improvement - the scars look much better. Didn't you do yours over the course of a year? Do you remember what levels you did? Those photos they posted and your experience are the reason why I ultimately chose Fraxel and also chose to go there. For that I have to re-Thank you. Hey are you going to be posting any recent photos??? :whistle:

I just did my 3rd Fraxel last Friday and went back to work today. I've got only 2 more treatments to go. As usual, I'm a little pink but thankfully less swollen. As for my results - so far, so good and I'm seeing changes all round. I wish I could keep this slightly swollen pudginess I have today but I know it's only temporary. In the long run, I may look into Sculptra. I had an Angelina Jolie "lip moment" after my Fraxel and it got me thinking... :silenced: and then I remembered - lip needles might hurt. :injured: so I don't know..

Post more often!!

Annie

Annie

Although I am not the type that thinks conspiracies and corruption exist everywhere, I agree with you that most docs will tend to undertreat. There is less risk for docs, as well as patients, but this protocol also produces a larger revenue stream from more treatments.

More importantly, I think you are getting an excellent benefit. Thanks for sharing. Your album is a hoot. I feel guilty for not sharing pictures from my experience to date, but I'm older than most and not into the photo stuff. Also, there are a few hotheads on this site whose unfettered anger scares me a little. I plan to post my "before and after" a couple months after my last Fraxel. I am reasonably happy from my first 2 treatments, especially #2, so I have high expectations from #3 and # 4.

I also have a slight raccoon eyes from treatment. This is the only place that I have a residual demarcation that bothers me. Has yours resolved?

Annie

Your swelling was a bit more severe then mine post fraxel. I still need improvements trust me. but I can say I did get real improvements from my 5 fraxels. I had them done from Nov 2004 to aug 2005.

So they were spread out quite a bit. I will do a few rounds in the future I really loved how my complexion looked so healthy and even a few weeks after number 5. that was almost a year ago and I of course have aged a year and had a few breakouts (though much less severe then Breakouts in the past) so I could use a touch up fraxel but as a whole I still have some nice over all complexion improvements. Good luck with your remaining Fraxels, My last one was at 12MJ's and full density six passes full face. I understand Fraxel laser treatments are MUCH more aggresive now and if you can handle the PAIN I am sure Todays fraxel patients can expect 50% improvements to even severe acne scars which its very worth while!

I've had severe back problems and recent back surgery so I am incoherent from drugs/pain. But, it gives me lots of computer time and no fraxel pain. Here is my attempt to compare total energy:

Tim's last Fraxel: 12mj x 250 density x 6 passes = 18000 total energy

My first Fraxel: 15 mj x 125 density x 6 passes = 11250 total enery

My second Fraxel:20 mj x 125 density x 8 passes = 20000 total energy

In fact, they used 250 density and 4 passes on forehead wrinkles and left jaw scars in Fraxel #1, so my total energy is slightly understated in #1 above.

I preceived no improvement from #1, but am happy with #2. Pain was no problem, but I am on serious drugs. My big issue is driving to the laser center.

I'm going for 23 next time, at 125 with 8 passes. I think this higher energy will give me benefit on my wrinkles and deeper scars on left jaw. My right side is actually pretty good so it may make more sense to go with lower energy and higher density to get a shallow ablation on the right side. Any thoughts on this or my math.

By the way, I think Fraxel provides a nice balance between risk/benefit.

 

Jamesjoyce

Why did you post "But at the off label settings used for acne scarring"? Fraxel was recently approved by FDA as to safety and efficacy for treatment of acne scarring. I take comfort in knowing that the clinical trial data submitted to FDA shows that this procedure works for acne scarring.

 

That just happened in the last few weeks. The current cleaning protocols (under which everyone here has been getting fraxel done) were most likely set with the idea that the procedure is bloodless (which it is at low settings).

Bottom line is that if your laser head has ever gotten any blood on it and hasn't been medically sterilized (sterilization is a complex process different from cleaning) then you are being exposed to blood born pathogens.

 

Bottom line: your not being exposed to blood born pathogens. Unless the doctor gets blood on the tip from aids or hepatitis patient, does your face and makes it bleed mixing the blood within a couple of minutes time then u could possibly get something. LMAO do u get your teeth cleaned regularly? Theres some blood there sometimes and I have never heard of anybody getting aids from someone that way. I like your name though I bought a first printing of Ulysses a few months back that I really like.

Hi,

Just had my third fraxel. Currently very swollen. So far my treatment has been -

1st treatment - Level 20mj X 6 Passes X 125 density =15000

2nd Treatment - Level 25mj x 6 Passes X 125 + Level 30mj x 2 passes x 125 = 18750+7500=26250

3rd Treatment - Level 25mj x 6 Passes x 125 density + Level 30mj x 7 passes x 125 = 18750+26250=45000

As you can imagine after my 3rd treatment I was very swollen with some pinpoint bleeding. I'm surprised I could take that much juice, and it felt like I was there forever.

I have separated my treatments at 5 weeks apart. I expect to do another 2 treatments and then be done with the whole process. Thus far after my second treatment I have seen 10-15% improvement. I am hoping this treatment will make the difference since I have close to doubled the total energy. My decision to jump to this scale was based on the doctor's recommendation and from the fact that after my second treatment I barely had any flaking and redness. Since my reaction to the 2nd treatment was mild it was time to increase the dosage so to speak to provoke a greater response.

For my next treatment I will probably do 2 passes at level 25 and then 10 at level 30. Not sure what the fifth treatment will involve. From what I am told and have read, most patients see significant results after the 3rd treatment, so this will be the litmus test of the success of this line of treatment.

The major benefit for me from fraxel has been excellent skin-tone and complexion and I have stopped breaking out since I started treatment 10 weeks ago. Treatment was conducted at the Dr Skin Clinic in Melbourne. I was given numbing cream and oral anesthetic. On top of this I was injected with anesthetic around the face. The pain was manageable with some discomfort.

I shall have to wait and see till after the fifth treatment to have an understanding of how much improvement I can expect. Thus far I have not seen much difference in ice-pick scars. I expect an overall improvement of 50% over 5 treatments but perhaps these aggressive settings will give me more. Best case I would say is 75%. I have all types of scars, but mainly ice-pick. Scars are located on forehead, cheeks and nose.

Regards,

Blaster

It amazes me how Fraxel has evovled over the past two years. even at these super high laser levels fraxel is still much safer then c02 resurfacing and is still far more mild. Even if you are red for a week that beats looking like a tomotoe for several months after c02. I do think many people will see 50% improvements to even severe scars at these levels but I will hold off on 75% that sounds a bit to good to be true! LOL

Good luck and keep us posted. After my rounds of scultra I may go in at the end of the year for a round of two of fraxel touch ups and may consider doing them at these levels.

Tim

Right now my Fraxel/sculptra improvments have me around 40% for my worst scars. I do want to hit that majic number of 75% where I feel almost all of us would FORGET we ever had Acne! should I keep dreamin?

Hi,

 

Just had my third fraxel. Currently very swollen. So far my treatment has been -

 

1st treatment - Level 20mj X 6 Passes X 125 density =15000

2nd Treatment - Level 25mj x 6 Passes X 125 + Level 30mj x 2 passes x 125 = 18750+7500=26250

3rd Treatment - Level 25mj x 6 Passes x 125 density + Level 30mj x 7 passes x 125 = 18750+26250=45000

 

As you can imagine after my 3rd treatment I was very swollen with some pinpoint bleeding. I'm surprised I could take that much juice, and it felt like I was there forever.

 

I have separated my treatments at 5 weeks apart. I expect to do another 2 treatments and then be done with the whole process. Thus far after my second treatment I have seen 10-15% improvement. I am hoping this treatment will make the difference since I have close to doubled the total energy. My decision to jump to this scale was based on the doctor's recommendation and from the fact that after my second treatment I barely had any flaking and redness. Since my reaction to the 2nd treatment was mild it was time to increase the dosage so to speak to provoke a greater response.

 

For my next treatment I will probably do 2 passes at level 25 and then 10 at level 30. Not sure what the fifth treatment will involve. From what I am told and have read, most patients see significant results after the 3rd treatment, so this will be the litmus test of the success of this line of treatment.

 

The major benefit for me from fraxel has been excellent skin-tone and complexion and I have stopped breaking out since I started treatment 10 weeks ago. Treatment was conducted at the Dr Skin Clinic in Melbourne. I was given numbing cream and oral anesthetic. On top of this I was injected with anesthetic around the face. The pain was manageable with some discomfort.

 

I shall have to wait and see till after the fifth treatment to have an understanding of how much improvement I can expect. Thus far I have not seen much difference in ice-pick scars. I expect an overall improvement of 50% over 5 treatments but perhaps these aggressive settings will give me more. Best case I would say is 75%. I have all types of scars, but mainly ice-pick. Scars are located on forehead, cheeks and nose.

 

 

Regards,

Blaster

 

Bottom line: your not being exposed to blood born pathogens. Unless the doctor gets blood on the tip from aids or hepatitis patient, does your face and makes it bleed mixing the blood within a couple of minutes time then u could possibly get something. LMAO do u get your teeth cleaned regularly? Theres some blood there sometimes and I have never heard of anybody getting aids from someone that way. I like your name though I bought a first printing of Ulysses a few months back that I really like.

 

Not to be a devil's advocate but, there actually have been cases of patients getting AIDS from contaminated instruments used at their dentist's office. There were some pretty big stories on the news about it a few years back. If you do a google, you could probably find the story...

Anyway, I think it's a valid concern. A patient shouldn't have to ask their doctor office to clean and sterlize the equipment they use. I, for one, will be asking them about this issue the next time I go in.

 

Bottom line: your not being exposed to blood born pathogens. Unless the doctor gets blood on the tip from aids or hepatitis patient, does your face and makes it bleed mixing the blood within a couple of minutes time then u could possibly get something. LMAO do u get your teeth cleaned regularly? Theres some blood there sometimes and I have never heard of anybody getting aids from someone that way. I like your name though I bought a first printing of Ulysses a few months back that I really like.

 

Not to be a devil's advocate but, there actually have been cases of patients getting AIDS from contaminated instruments used at their dentist's office. There were some pretty big stories on the news about it a few years back. If you do a google, you could probably find the story...

Anyway, I think it's a valid concern. A patient shouldn't have to ask their doctor office to clean and sterlize the equipment they use. I, for one, will be asking them about this issue the next time I go in.

 

Not to be heaven's advocate but how do they even prove that it came from the dentist? HIV Virus out in open air dies within 15 minutes. I believe it can happen at the dentiest office indeed but I think it's also blown out of proportion by many false claims. It's alot easier for people to blame their dentist instead of admitting it came from them not using proper protection during sex.

 

 

Jamesjoyce

Why did you post "But at the off label settings used for acne scarring"? Fraxel was recently approved by FDA as to safety and efficacy for treatment of acne scarring. I take comfort in knowing that the clinical trial data submitted to FDA shows that this procedure works for acne scarring.

 

That just happened in the last few weeks. The current cleaning protocols (under which everyone here has been getting fraxel done) were most likely set with the idea that the procedure is bloodless (which it is at low settings).

Bottom line is that if your laser head has ever gotten any blood on it and hasn't been medically sterilized (sterilization is a complex process different from cleaning) then you are being exposed to blood born pathogens.

 

Bottom line: your not being exposed to blood born pathogens. Unless the doctor gets blood on the tip from aids or hepatitis patient, does your face and makes it bleed mixing the blood within a couple of minutes time then u could possibly get something. LMAO do u get your teeth cleaned regularly? Theres some blood there sometimes and I have never heard of anybody getting aids from someone that way. I like your name though I bought a first printing of Ulysses a few months back that I really like.

 

Your dentist is required by law to sterilize (not just clean) equipment, silly. No one here has yet to ask their doctor whether fraxel practioners are requird by law to sterilize. If they are, that's great. But I know laser hair removal centers aren't required to. They just give the laser head a quick wipe.

There are a lot of nasty pathogens besides AIDS or hepatitis you can catch from blood. And although the MTZs are microscopic they do undermine the natural barriers of healthy skin.

FYI, AIDs can usually only last a few hours outside the body while Hep can last a week. Just imagine patient after patient using the same head with only a quick wipe in between . . .

 

 

 

Jamesjoyce

Why did you post "But at the off label settings used for acne scarring"? Fraxel was recently approved by FDA as to safety and efficacy for treatment of acne scarring. I take comfort in knowing that the clinical trial data submitted to FDA shows that this procedure works for acne scarring.

 

That just happened in the last few weeks. The current cleaning protocols (under which everyone here has been getting fraxel done) were most likely set with the idea that the procedure is bloodless (which it is at low settings).

Bottom line is that if your laser head has ever gotten any blood on it and hasn't been medically sterilized (sterilization is a complex process different from cleaning) then you are being exposed to blood born pathogens.

 

Bottom line: your not being exposed to blood born pathogens. Unless the doctor gets blood on the tip from aids or hepatitis patient, does your face and makes it bleed mixing the blood within a couple of minutes time then u could possibly get something. LMAO do u get your teeth cleaned regularly? Theres some blood there sometimes and I have never heard of anybody getting aids from someone that way. I like your name though I bought a first printing of Ulysses a few months back that I really like.

 

Your dentist is required by law to sterilize (not just clean) equipment, silly. No one here has yet to ask their doctor whether fraxel practioners are requird by law to sterilize. If they are, that's great. But I know laser hair removal centers aren't required to. They just give the laser head a quick wipe.

There are a lot of nasty pathogens besides AIDS or hepatitis you can catch from blood. And although the MTZs are microscopic they do undermine the natural barriers of healthy skin.

FYI, AIDs can usually only last a few hours outside the body while Hep can last a week. Just imagine patient after patient using the same head with only a quick wipe in between . . .

 

Actually, the HIV virus only survives a minute or two once it touches open air, it is a very very weak virus. It can only survive longer if it is in a large amount of blood which can help protect it from air; for the amount of blood we are talking about it would be dead within a minute. Hepatitis, on the other hand, is 100 times more infectious than the HIV virus, so this could be a valid concern.

The good thing is, the thick layer of numbing cream on your face acts as a good barrier between your skin and the laser tip; this should prevent blood from every touching the laser. Vice-versa, this layer of cream should also prevent any "pathogens" on the laser from every touching your skin.

Bottom-line : If you're worried about catching hepatitis, this probably isn't the easiest way to get it. If you're still worried about it, go get vaccinated. You can get a vaccine shot against the most common types of hep.

Sean..

Thanks Annie for all the info and especially for sharing the photos.

I just had my last of 5 treatments Wed. My face is starting to get flaky and am a deep bronze. I have to say to those considering Fraxel.....it's money well spent! I read some of the postings from a few of the members who have been complaining about the lack of improvements. Too bad they weren't satisified. I think the number one thing to remember is that for those of us that have scars....they're never going completely away. Believe me, over the past 10 years I've tried a lot of treatements and spent lots of $$$ hoping that this will be the one that works. Years ago I finally accepted the scars as part of me and stopped being so self conscious about it. It still stings a little when you're talking to people and you notice them looking at the scars but hey...what are you going to do.

I have to say that Fraxel has been the most successful at improving my acne scars. All we can do is try and improve the scars and I'm happy I went through the whole ordeal. I had some shallow scars on my right cheek and some deeper ones on my left. I must say that the right cheek is 50% more smoother and the left had improved about 40% just after the 4th treatment. i was told that I'd see 25 -30% improvement but I'm surprised and pretty happy with the results....of course we all want perfection but.....

Anyway, the drawbacks for me..... blistering on my right temple after the 3rd treatment that left a slight change in skin texture. I really had no scaring on my temples and was pretty upset about the side affect. I was also left with some hyperpigmentation (sp?) that made it look worse. The doc gave me some bleaching cream which improved it and said she'd spot treat it for free after I'm done with the 5 full sessions. She skipped the temples on the 4th and went over the area this last time so we'll see how that area reacted. No blistering this time. She kept the areas around my temples, nose and forehead at 12 because of the bad reaction from session 3. She also spread my treatments 4 weeks apart instead of every 2 weeks which made the last 2 treatements a breaze. She edged my treatments up evrytime and this last one she went up to 16 on my cheeks at 250. Don't know how some of these people get treated at +20.... .. that's insane. nyway, my skin healed up nicely and much faster than the 2 and 3rd. I also have a dark complextion so I've been left with a "mask" (what my Dr calls it). My treated skin is a bit darker than the non-treated areas around my eyes and hairlines but I've noticed that on some of the picture posts. Mine had started to fade before I got this last one.

Anyway, I'm glad it's over with for now. Who knows, i may go in for an extra 2 in the fall (sucks having to stay out of the sun during the summer).

Well good luck to everyone and will try to post the pre- and post- treatment pictures in a month or so.

And by the way, I seriously doubt you can get HIV from Fraxel. Unless you Dr was doing marathon Fraxel treatments and there's immediate blood-to-blood contact, the virus dies within seconds from leaving a host. And......... AIDS is caused by HIV. It's when the white blood cells fall below a certain level that someone with HIV is considered to have AIDS.

 

I wonder if having too low of a setting, could have been enough to dry out your skin helping create more breakouts and not exfoliate it. Is your skin more experienced with peels and procedures? Mine is and because of that usually I need a stronger, jack hammer approach - to chip off that dry, tougher outer layer of skin. Maybe you should ask the office exactly what setting they used. I'd be interested to know what level they stayed with. They really should tell you.

 

 

 

Well, you may have a point there. I know that she told me that they approach the settings more conservatively than other practices. She also said that the setting perameters vary from office to office, so I have no idea what the energy output was, only that they did the 250 pixel coverage on most of the face and only 125 pixel in the most sensitive places. I was red and dry for a few days but I didn't get all that flaking and peeling everyone is talking about. One week post treatment, you'd never know I had anything done. The other thing is, right after the procedure, they told me to come back about 5 days later to get a microdermabrasion but when I called the office, the secretary wanted to schedule it a week out, which would have done no good that late. I don't have a lot of experience with peels but had been doing cooltouch for 5 weeks prior to the fraxel so maybe that counts. I went in today for a cooltouch appointment (another $500) and decided that I would do only one more fraxel for now and re-assess in the fall. I plan on going back to work part time so that I can pay for the lasers out of my own pocket instead of dipping into our family savings account.

I did find a place in town that does smoothbeam for less money and I have a free consultation in a couple days. I am hoping I can convince her to be more aggressive in my treatments in order to get effective results. She mentioned doing it in alteration with AHA peels (I can't remember what they are called) and that may be a cheaper route for me until I can get a job to pay for the fraxels.

The other thing is that both my kids play soccer and I am outside a lot in the summer, so even with all the precautions, it is still very diffictult to keep the sun off of me all the time. And that only seems to aggravate the healing process of the fraxel.

I wanted to thank you for replying to me -- a lot of people ignore my posts on this thread (I've only had 3 that I can remember) and I appreciate your encouragement. Thanks!