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AFAIK Dermabrasio goes only 0.3 mm deep, Fraxel has a maximum depth of up to 1.2 mm (at 70 mj). Dermabrasio can't go deeper because of the large wounding.With Fraxel downtime is around two days because of the swelling and up to four days of (social) downtime because of redness. With (real) dermabrasio you would have to spend up to one week at the hospital (intense wound care required) plus one week at home.
Therefore, total cost of one dermabrasio (one week of hospital and general anaesthetic) should be almost equal to five fraxel treatments. Also the skin of the dermabrasio treated areas looks different than untreated skin.
I think you can't expect fast results with both treatments. For deeper scarring you should expect to have 3 x 5 Fraxel treatments considering that every set of 5 treatments improves scar depth and appearance by 30%).
30% for each 5 fraxel treatments for deep scarring? hmm i hope thats true..i would even be greatful for just 10% improvement. how long would u need to wait for a second set of 5 fraxel treaments after the first set?
AFAIK Dermabrasio goes only 0.3 mm deep, Fraxel has a maximum depth of up to 1.2 mm (at 70 mj). Dermabrasio can't go deeper because of the large wounding.
Do you mean Fraxel can totally remove scars that are 1.2mm in depth? I haven't had it done or searched for it properly. so I wonder it can eliminate mild scarring totally. (with mild scarring I mean scars that are 1mm in depth or more shallow)
Ok .. so I'm post 3rd Fraxel - 2 weeks into it and I decided to do a photo compare. Since I took pics with my cell phone after my 1st Fraxel .. it definitely is not a good comparison. I wish I had taken better pics. I know my derm did so it'll be interesting to compare. The attached PDF has comparison with Post 1st Fraxel vs. Post 3rd Fraxel. However, the Post 1st Fraxel was taken I believe one day after the fraxel treatment so the face is still swollen and the scars look lot better. Anyways, thought I'd share with you all on what you can expect.
As for the results, I'm not happy. However, very hopeful that something will better come out of it. I decided to take the plunge knowing that I should not expect more than 50% improvement .. the derm told me 60-70%. I'm nowhere close - I think the scars have really shallowed down. Percentage-wise I think 20% improvement so far.
I have one more to go and then will have to decide whether I want to go for 5th and 6th. One thing that I highly suggest is not to go for Fraxel treatment in Summer ... it sucks because you can't go outside without avoiding sun exposure. And the downtime is at least a week - I say this because while the swelling goes down in couple of days, you'll have tiny black dots all over your face for the next 6 to 7 days. I can't imagine anybody at work coming close to you being not curious about your face with those tiny dots. Being male, there is no makeup concealers I can use - but then I doubt it'll be easy for women to conceal that either.
Ok .. so I'm post 3rd Fraxel - 2 weeks into it and I decided to do a photo compare. Since I took pics with my cell phone after my 1st Fraxel .. it definitely is not a good comparison. I wish I had taken better pics. I know my derm did so it'll be interesting to compare. The attached PDF has comparison with Post 1st Fraxel vs. Post 3rd Fraxel. However, the Post 1st Fraxel was taken I believe one day after the fraxel treatment so the face is still swollen and the scars look lot better. Anyways, thought I'd share with you all on what you can expect.As for the results, I'm not happy. However, very hopeful that something will better come out of it. I decided to take the plunge knowing that I should not expect more than 50% improvement .. the derm told me 60-70%. I'm nowhere close - I think the scars have really shallowed down. Percentage-wise I think 20% improvement so far.
I have one more to go and then will have to decide whether I want to go for 5th and 6th. One thing that I highly suggest is not to go for Fraxel treatment in Summer ... it sucks because you can't go outside without avoiding sun exposure. And the downtime is at least a week - I say this because while the swelling goes down in couple of days, you'll have tiny black dots all over your face for the next 6 to 7 days. I can't imagine anybody at work coming close to you being not curious about your face with those tiny dots. Being male, there is no makeup concealers I can use - but then I doubt it'll be easy for women to conceal that either.
Man I have to say that you seem to be a better candidate for TCA cross treatements...I've seen similar pictures in the original tca paper.
You all need to Google the word Re:pair and drop the Fraxel all together because of the confusion. The Re:pair reaches a depth of 1.7mm, and is much more intense that what everybody accepts as Fraxel. The closest thing to Re:pair is the DeepFX not any of the previous Fraxel Lasers. The last I heard there were only 30-35 Re:pair Lasers in the country. Down time is about a week with severe swelling for the first 3 days. After 3 days the swelling subsides, but you are left very red for about 2 weeks. I had this done at 70mj and 60% about 11 weeks ago and I am seeing about a 40% improvement. I anticipate a 2nd procedure near the end of the year, but this was fully expected. The trick is to get past the Fraxel debates to get to the Re:pair discussions. As soon as someone starts talking about a series of treatments you can be sure it is not Re:pair that they are talking about.
You all need to Google the word Re:pair and drop the Fraxel all together because of the confusion. The Re:pair reaches a depth of 1.7mm, and is much more intense that what everybody accepts as Fraxel. The closest thing to Re:pair is the DeepFX not any of the previous Fraxel Lasers. The last I heard there were only 30-35 Re:pair Lasers in the country. Down time is about a week with severe swelling for the first 3 days. After 3 days the swelling subsides, but you are left very red for about 2 weeks. I had this done at 70mj and 60% about 11 weeks ago and I am seeing about a 40% improvement. I anticipate a 2nd procedure near the end of the year, but this was fully expected. The trick is to get past the Fraxel debates to get to the Re:pair discussions. As soon as someone starts talking about a series of treatments you can be sure it is not Re:pair that they are talking about.
Thanks Dudley! I had the OLD RE:store done 3 years ago it took 5 treatments to get a modest 30% improvment, I was not UNHAPPY with the results but then again I would NEVER sit through a series of laser treatments again! not worth it. If you have 40% from ONE Repair treatment after 11 weeks I would say you will COAST into 50% by the end of 4/5 Months. And THAT would in my Humble opinion would be Enough BANG for the BUCK and Even with a week of downtime and 3 days of wound management thrown in. I would Love to hear back from you in a few months
It may be 2009 before a Repair is up and running in South Florida so I would like to hear about your SECOND experience as well. Though Repair is no inexpensive CAKE WALK it does sound as close to a Long term Dramatic Improvment to several indications (not least of which is acne scarring) that we will see in Decades. it would be Fantasitc if we could expect 75% from 2 treatments. I will not hold my breath for that though! LOL Good luck! PS regarding the OTHER indications such as Wrinkles, Bags under the eyes, Skin Tightining and over all improvements to skin tone can you comment on those?????
thanks for pics imajayhawk!
I think i've seen a common theme in fraxel people on here. the fraxel helps create healthy skin tissue inside scars. even helps raise them. but the outline of the scar is still there at the end of treatment. the scar is also not raised perfectly with the non scarred skin.
this makes it really tough to be happy with improvement. even if you fill a hole in the ground 50 percent with dirt it will still look like a hole with deep edges. even at 90 percent you'd still see an outline. only at 98-99 percent would you probably not be able to tell there is a scar there.
i think this is why patients normally rate their improvement much less than doctors. i guess the best thing is to try and remove the hole. rather than fill it up gradually. maybe this is why re:pair is so much better than re:store. the repair actually removes the scar tissue. the re:store tries to fill it in.
maybe the best thing for acne scars is a series of re:pair, followed by a series of re:store. although now with thermage buying reliant i think the tecnology will go more towards skin tightening and baby boomer skin problems. acne scars have always been a side app anyway.
well, male asian 30 here. Just had fraxel repair done. I've read a lot on how fraxel restore was sort of useless and I didn't want to go back every month so yes, asian skin and CO2. My main concerns were pore size and well, I've got a deluge of photos - which I may or may not upload. The before/after images are LOL contrasty. My skin is bleedy, raw, red and dry/tight now. Its my first night, so I'm 6 hours post fraxel.
I'll post back for sure. Will be good to let people who've helped by posting here know if I think it works.
* Just so everyone knows, I had a treatment with a female dermatologist a while back on my pores, she didn't have fraxel but had some sort of profractional laser - and she was happy for me to do a test on my nose + an acne scar (on my cheek) for minimal fees - THAT SCAR DID GO AWAY. The skin levelled out but it didn't take care of the pores which again are my central concerns.
what kind of scar was it and what was the laser she used??
im considering this but i have sorta olive skin...
a series of repair follewed by restore sounds interesting...
i was wonding do u guys still reccomend that a series of 3x5 fraxels restore can get rid of scars?? as in 3 yrs of fraxels 5 per yr..i just want to know the best treatment outline to follow to smooth out the skin...what do u guys think about the micro laser peel,,
@gatorman: If you've got 30% improvement from the old fraxel that had lower energy settings why don't you try the "new" Restore that goes up to 55 mj with almost no pain and downtime (except weekends and two weekdays). Maybe that second round of Fraxel Restore would bring you to > 50% improvement.
What percentage of improvement did you experience immediately after your last Fraxel session and what percentage during the "healing" months that follow the last session? I see maybe a 20-30% after my 5th Fraxel and I am curious what to expect in the upcoming months.
Did you try subcision combined with Restylane too? What do you think about combining this procedure with Fraxel?
Thank you!
@delta force operators: I believe it is possible to sequentially increase the result by doing more series of Fraxel. Why should your skin not be able to improve further if you had Fraxel before? I am definitively looking forward to another round of Fraxel and I am hoping that my skin will continue to improve.
is it just me or am i the only one who thinks that most of the people who post %'s of improvements are doing so right after or a week or so after their treatment?
hasn't anyone heard of swelling and microswelling?
that being said where are all the posts of people reporting their improvements 6 months after their final treatment? that is what i am interested in. if you guys know about people who have seen results 6 mo. after their final treatment please let me know.
i would look for them myself but i do not have time to sift through 270+ pages of mostly unnecessary posts........
@boomers: Gatorman reported a 30% improvement, he had Fraxel a couple of years ago.
@delta force operators: I have rolling scars of various sizes, two of them (on my cheeks) are fairly large and around 1 mm deep. I also have a couple of ice pick scars that are smaller.
You all need to Google the word Re:pair and drop the Fraxel all together because of the confusion. The Re:pair reaches a depth of 1.7mm, and is much more intense that what everybody accepts as Fraxel. The closest thing to Re:pair is the DeepFX not any of the previous Fraxel Lasers. The last I heard there were only 30-35 Re:pair Lasers in the country. Down time is about a week with severe swelling for the first 3 days. After 3 days the swelling subsides, but you are left very red for about 2 weeks. I had this done at 70mj and 60% about 11 weeks ago and I am seeing about a 40% improvement. I anticipate a 2nd procedure near the end of the year, but this was fully expected. The trick is to get past the Fraxel debates to get to the Re:pair discussions. As soon as someone starts talking about a series of treatments you can be sure it is not Re:pair that they are talking about.
A cosmetic derm reccomended a series of 4 fraxel2
I believe fraxel 2 is fraxel repair..he wanted to go aggressive with me..im going back to him.
You all need to Google the word Re:pair and drop the Fraxel all together because of the confusion. The Re:pair reaches a depth of 1.7mm, and is much more intense that what everybody accepts as Fraxel. The closest thing to Re:pair is the DeepFX not any of the previous Fraxel Lasers. The last I heard there were only 30-35 Re:pair Lasers in the country. Down time is about a week with severe swelling for the first 3 days. After 3 days the swelling subsides, but you are left very red for about 2 weeks. I had this done at 70mj and 60% about 11 weeks ago and I am seeing about a 40% improvement. I anticipate a 2nd procedure near the end of the year, but this was fully expected. The trick is to get past the Fraxel debates to get to the Re:pair discussions. As soon as someone starts talking about a series of treatments you can be sure it is not Re:pair that they are talking about.A cosmetic derm reccomended a series of 4 fraxel2
I believe fraxel 2 is fraxel repair..he wanted to go aggressive with me..im going back to him.
I believe Fraxel 2 is Re:store. I highly doubt a derm would recommend 4 treaments of Re:pair. 4 treatments of Re:pair = $15k-$20k... unless you're a rich bastard, I highly doubt you can afford that.
no u can get 4 treatments check this out
http://ljcsc.com/laser_resurfacing/fraxel_...esurfacing.html
i think the intesity wont be as high as just having one treatment.
is it just me or am i the only one who thinks that most of the people who post %'s of improvements are doing so right after or a week or so after their treatment?hasn't anyone heard of swelling and microswelling?
that being said where are all the posts of people reporting their improvements 6 months after their final treatment? that is what i am interested in. if you guys know about people who have seen results 6 mo. after their final treatment please let me know.
i would look for them myself but i do not have time to sift through 270+ pages of mostly unnecessary posts........
Well, I am 12 months past my fifth Fravel in August 2007, so i guess I will post some comments since quite alot of ppl have been lamenting abt the lack of posts from ex-fraxelers.
I have about 40% to 50% improvement, and even today, it seems I am still geeting minor improvement. Of course, i have also been supplementing the fravel treatment with post treatment creams. I have used Vitamin E cream, and have started on Mederma cream abt two months ago. They seem to made some improvemnent, although I can't be sure if its the cream that's helping or my skin continuing to improve from the fravel treatment.
Anyone who have read enough abt Fravel would know that the improvemnt is a very slow and gradual process, as the rebuilding of collagen takes times. I would also like to add that post treatment diet and lifestyle play a very impt part in the healing process. If you smokes, you are negating the collagen rebuilding process, as nicotin destroy Vit C, a key ingredient for collagan.
Perhaps that is the reason why we see differing results. Not enough focus has been placed upon post treatment diet and lifestyle changes. If you are a heavy smoker, sleep less than 6 hours a day, out in the sun all day and have a poor diet, your results will suffer.
Zonk - what % improvement do you estimate? Variation by scar type?I'd 50-75% improvement. My rolling scars have improved a lot, not 100%, but you would only notice i had rolling scars if you knew where they were and were looking for them. Excision scars improved ~50%. Enlarged pores, 10-20%. Ice picks/failed excision didn't change noticeably.
Hi tanand2000 & Zonk,
looks like you are happy with your Fraxel results after the healing period.
I had my 5th fraxel 4 weeks ago and see maybe a 25% percent improvement on shallower scars (ca 0.5 mm deep) and max 10% at the deepest scars (ca 1 mm deep). All scars are rolling scars. I had Fraxel Restore at higher settings (on average 50 mj and treatment level 7). I'm currently a bit disappointed since I expected better results.
What would be your estimate on total improvement I can expect after 3 - 4 months? How much improvement in scar deepth did you see one month after your last Fraxel?
Thanks!
Zonk - what % improvement do you estimate? Variation by scar type?I'd 50-75% improvement. My rolling scars have improved a lot, not 100%, but you would only notice i had rolling scars if you knew where they were and were looking for them. Excision scars improved ~50%. Enlarged pores, 10-20%. Ice picks/failed excision didn't change noticeably.
Hi tanand2000 & Zonk,
looks like you are happy with your Fraxel results after the healing period.
I had my 5th fraxel 4 weeks ago and see maybe a 25% percent improvement on shallower scars (ca 0.5 mm deep) and max 10% at the deepest scars (ca 1 mm deep). All scars are rolling scars. I had Fraxel Restore at higher settings (on average 50 mj and treatment level 7). I'm currently a bit disappointed since I expected better results.
What would be your estimate on total improvement I can expect after 3 - 4 months? How much improvement in scar deepth did you see one month after your last Fraxel?
Thanks!
If you have read through the pages, you would have come to a general conclusion that results varies widely. Some forumer have reported little visible improvement, while others have seen significant improvemnt of up to 70%. It seems that 30% to 50% would be a reasonable expectation, provided your post treatment rehab is good, that is, abstain or cut down on smoking and alcohol intake, as these destroy Vitamin C in your body.
Anyway, it has been reported that rolling scars tends to react well to Fraxel, but the rsults is probably gradual, over a period of three to twelve months.
Be patient, and do follow up with good post treatmnt care.
You all need to Google the word Re:pair and drop the Fraxel all together because of the confusion. The Re:pair reaches a depth of 1.7mm, and is much more intense that what everybody accepts as Fraxel. The closest thing to Re:pair is the DeepFX not any of the previous Fraxel Lasers. The last I heard there were only 30-35 Re:pair Lasers in the country. Down time is about a week with severe swelling for the first 3 days. After 3 days the swelling subsides, but you are left very red for about 2 weeks. I had this done at 70mj and 60% about 11 weeks ago and I am seeing about a 40% improvement. I anticipate a 2nd procedure near the end of the year, but this was fully expected. The trick is to get past the Fraxel debates to get to the Re:pair discussions. As soon as someone starts talking about a series of treatments you can be sure it is not Re:pair that they are talking about.
What kind of scars do you have and what is the severity?
Well, I am 12 months past my fifth Fravel in August 2007, so i guess I will post some comments since quite alot of ppl have been lamenting abt the lack of posts from ex-fraxelers.I have about 40% to 50% improvement, and even today, it seems I am still geeting minor improvement. Of course, i have also been supplementing the fravel treatment with post treatment creams. I have used Vitamin E cream, and have started on Mederma cream abt two months ago. They seem to made some improvemnent, although I can't be sure if its the cream that's helping or my skin continuing to improve from the fravel treatment.
What type of scars did you have and how deep were they?
Thank you for sharing your experience with us.