Hi everyone. If anyone is interested, here are some up-close before an after pictures of my ice pick scars pre- and post- fraxel. It's not very encouraging as the pores are larger and the skin texture worse, but hopefully it's useful information. I posted them on another thread, but the thread didn't get many views, so I'm putting it here too.

03-07-2006 - Before Fraxel:

04-10-2006 - Just after 4th and last Fraxel:

06-17-2006 - Two months after last Fraxel:

01-27-2007 - Nine months after last Fraxel:

Cameron. Have you done anything since fraxel (like peels or anything)?

I read you did needling before fraxel. Do you feel that helped or did damage?

Cameron. Have you done anything since fraxel (like peels or anything)?

I read you did needling before fraxel. Do you feel that helped or did damage?

I did needling in 2003. You can check my journal for before and after pictures of that. Also, all I've been doing since Fraxel is using healing products like Revive EGF and eating well and taking a bunch of supplements--MSM, vitamin C, multivitamins, oils.

For those of you who have had Fraxel, how long does the swelling last? It has been awful today (I had 1st treatment yesterday). I look very scary. I have tried to ice it, but with 2 kids running around, there isn't much time to sit. I need to find a way to attach bags of frozen peas to my face. Do you all think icing really helps? I have some scabbing also, but the Derm said it would happen since she was aggressive.

Thanks for any feedback!

The swelling only lasts a few hours (3 - 12 hours)...

The redness / peeling / bronzing lasts 5 - 7 days.

Oh boy, now you've got me scared. I was considering getting Pixel (similar to Fraxel) laser resurfacing on my face. My doc said that it would help smoothen out my scars and would require very little downtime. I have similar ice pick scars on my cheeks and nose, with blackheads too. I don't want to make things worse.

I'm going to see a different derm next week so I'll ask him what he thinks.

For those of you who have had Fraxel, how long does the swelling last? It has been awful today (I had 1st treatment yesterday). I look very scary. I have tried to ice it, but with 2 kids running around, there isn't much time to sit. I need to find a way to attach bags of frozen peas to my face. :rolleyes: Do you all think icing really helps? I have some scabbing also, but the Derm said it would happen since she was aggressive.

Thanks for any feedback!

I was swollen for 4-6 days, depending on how aggressive my doctor was with the laser. I bought this cold pack (headache band) from Walgreen's that you wrap under your chin and up your cheeks, then velcro at the top of your head. It helps keeps your hands free, and you can keep doing other things. Actually, I have 2, and then I keep switching off during the day. I also look very scary the first 3 or 4 days, so don't worry about that. 😀

For those of you who have had Fraxel, how long does the swelling last? It has been awful today (I had 1st treatment yesterday). I look very scary. I have tried to ice it, but with 2 kids running around, there isn't much time to sit. I need to find a way to attach bags of frozen peas to my face. :rolleyes: Do you all think icing really helps? I have some scabbing also, but the Derm said it would happen since she was aggressive.

Thanks for any feedback!

I was swollen for 4-6 days, depending on how aggressive my doctor was with the laser. I bought this cold pack (headache band) from Walgreen's that you wrap under your chin and up your cheeks, then velcro at the top of your head. It helps keeps your hands free, and you can keep doing other things. Actually, I have 2, and then I keep switching off during the day. I also look very scary the first 3 or 4 days, so don't worry about that. 😀

 

Thanks cubsfan. I woke today even worse than yesterday! Totally swollen and scabby..very scary. I know I need to ice more.

Hi everybody out there!

I am new here, coming from Vienna, (Austria - Europe), really interessted in your thread, spend 2 days reading all 171 pages (puh!) and am rather confused now. does it help or not? Fraxel is not that popular in Austria yet than in the USA. But I am open minded to all new possibilities fighting my damn acne scars, specially laser methods. I had a CO2 full face Oct 2004 and it improved my acne scars, I guess 50%. I often thought about doing it a second time, but the procedure/healing time was awful, therefore I am now interessted in Fraxel. I have an appointment for my 1st treatment on Feb 14. My doc said it will help my scars (she wont use that blue die thing, is it therefore the new Fraxel 2?). I do not have ice picks, do not know how to describe my scars, I got a lot of them all over my face, mostly cheeks. Ive seen some examples here in this thread and dont find them bad at all. So I think I have got the deeper kind of... Im also confused about the different downtimes.... Because the main reason why I dont want a CO2 again is the long downtime, I could not go in public for 3 weeks! But some of you have a downtime of 5-7 days which is long,too, because my doc told me I can cover my skin with make up immediately after treatment. Cannot believe that! Also I am very concerned about the break outs. I am still suffering from little acne sometimes (before periode, yep Im female) and hate it, cant imagine to have worse break outs after each treatment, that would depress me very, very much.

I appreciate this thread, it is very interesting. Thanks to all who keep posting their experiences. 🙂

If they are not using the blue dye, I would question whether it is actually Fraxel. The Fraxel that you hear a lot about (Reliant's Technology) uses the blue dye for both Fraxel 1 and Fraxel 2 (I've had treatments from both). The derm might have bought a less expensive machine and intends to market it as the Fraxel that most people on this thread is using. Question you dermatologist and ask if he is using the Reliant Fraxel or a different kind. It is probably a fractional resurfacing laser, but not the Reliant Fraxel.

Question for people who have had Fraxel or completed Fraxel:

Do you notice having a tan on the treated area? I had treatment on my cheeks and 3 weeks after my 5th one I still look like I have a tan on my face where I was treated. I can notice the difference between the color on my face and the color on my neck. Will this diminish on its own and how long will it take? Thank you for the help.

becintx if your doctor went agressive don't worry, that kind of swelling is totally normal. My freaky swelling lasted 3 to 4 days. AFter my 2nd Fraxel I got used to the swelling and stopped worrying about it but after my first one I freaked out too. What you are going through sounds normal. For the next treatments buy this face mask NatraGel Facial Rejuvenation Mask this mask feels soooooooo good on your hot red face! Buy the enriched one with Aloe, Green Tea, Vitamin E! I used one after each treatment and it helped a lot. I took Ibuprofen every 6 hours, took a claritin and at night took a benadryl to help with the swelling, the benedryl also helped with sleeping. I got a wedge to sleep on to elevate myself to help reduce swelling, a night is when it gets worse when laying flat.

My redness lasts for a bit but since I did my full face I don't notice it as much. Every week it gets lighter. It should get better with time.

I'm one week past my 5th Fraxel and I have healed as usual. Now I just wait to see how much collegen my face produces.

Also Reliant is coming out with a new tip for the Fraxel 2 laser which won't require the blue dye any longer

My doctor hopes to have it by the end of Feb or March when I see him again for a checkup. That is going to help a lot. It was a mess taking that off of my face.

becintx if your doctor went agressive don't worry, that kind of swelling is totally normal. My freaky swelling lasted 3 to 4 days. AFter my 2nd Fraxel I got used to the swelling and stopped worrying about it but after my first one I freaked out too. What you are going through sounds normal. For the next treatments buy this face mask NatraGel Facial Rejuvenation Mask this mask feels soooooooo good on your hot red face! Buy the enriched one with Aloe, Green Tea, Vitamin E! I used one after each treatment and it helped a lot. I took Ibuprofen every 6 hours, took a claritin and at night took a benadryl to help with the swelling, the benedryl also helped with sleeping. I got a wedge to sleep on to elevate myself to help reduce swelling, a night is when it gets worse when laying flat.

My redness lasts for a bit but since I did my full face I don't notice it as much. Every week it gets lighter. It should get better with time.

I'm one week past my 5th Fraxel and I have healed as usual. Now I just wait to see how much collegen my face produces.

Also Reliant is coming out with a new tip for the Fraxel 2 laser which won't require the blue dye any longer :dance: My doctor hopes to have it by the end of Feb or March when I see him again for a checkup. That is going to help a lot. It was a mess taking that off of my face.

Thanks JJP007! Now my face is starting to itch so bad! It's so dry and the prescription lotion is doing nothing. It's awful. So I am totally swollen AND have a face with the texture of a lizard. I'll try the mask.

There is a new Fraxel called "Fraxel+" which will not use the blue dye (I think too many people complained and washing it off adds to irritation). It is more ablative than fractional, with a week or more of downtime. BUT it is still in clinical trials so I doubt this is the one you are using.

Like someone said above, the concept of "fractional laser resurfacing" has been copycated by Palomar and Pixel. They both have laser heads on the market. Note these are only laser heads, which attach to laser systems the doctors already own. Therefore it is much cheaper for the doctor as an investment, meanwhile they can charge the same to customers and call it Fraxel--which it is not.

This happened to one patient on here already. He went to Dr. Kovak in Chicago. Dr. Kovak even gave him a Fraxel brochure to read during the consultation! He complained and Kovak gave him a full refund. But not before the patient had already undergone a treatment with the imitation laser.

Both imitation lasers claim to penetrate the deepest out of any fractional laser and have other advantages over Fraxel, but I think this is largely bunk. The only thing they MIGHT have going for them is that they are not using scanning technology (because Fraxel would sue them!). This means the laser doesn't scan across your face like a paint brush. Rather the doctor puts it down on a spot, zaps you, picks it up, moves it over some, and repeats.

The only reason I think this MIGHT be better is that the spacing of the microthermal zones are more controlled and even. There is less potential to have MTZs being laid down on top of one another causing a Macroscopic Thermal Zone. Would be interested to know what others think about this.

The only reason I think this MIGHT be better is that the spacing of the microthermal zones are more controlled and even. There is less potential to have MTZs being laid down on top of one another causing a Macroscopic Thermal Zone. Would be interested to know what others think about this.

Interesting question, and it seems you are more familiar with this technology than I am. I never really understood whether the Fraxels was a pulsed laser or more of a steady beam? If the fraxel's tip scans the area then why the need to roll it across the face?

I think your hypothesis on treating small sections at a time being more precise sounds good in theory. However I'd be inclined to believe in real world practice there would still be a lot of overlap. As an example, I've seen many videos of CO2 lasers. They emit a "swatch" light first to show the practicioner exactly where the laser is going to shoot. Then the target area gets blasted by small pulses of the CO2 laser much like a dot-matrix style printer head. On the surface it would seem precise enough to administer exactly one layer of laser burn over the entire face, but the doctor routinely goes over the same area a few times. I think the logic behind this is to have the laser burn less than the actual desired depth with each pass so the doctor can go slightly deeper in some areas and shallower in others thus making his role in the whole process more that of a skilled painter than a human scanner. :shrug:

Either way, i sure hope the cheaper lasers are just as effective as the current Fraxel so that future treatments won't take such a toll on my finances. If we're lucky, the different laser tips will even complement each other so that each one works better on different types of scars and we can do one course of laser after another to yield even better results.

My doc has got the Palomar. I also was worrying about that, but then contacted my derm who did my CO2 treatment 2,5 years ago (he does not have any fractional laser yet, but attends congresses and is always informed about new lasers) He told me there is no difference in quality, he also told me that rolling scars could be treated much more better than icepicks with any laser method. I am also wonderng about that you guys donAt have any pretreatment. I have to cream aha acids every day prior to the fraxel....my first app is on Feb 14, so will see.....

Well, it's day 5 after my first Fraxel treatment. Yes, my Derm was aggressive (per my request) and I am still paying for it. I am not as swollen as the first couple of days, but I can't go out with this skin. It's still so dark red and tan and it's peeling up a storm. It's so tight and itches like mad. I keep moisturizing it, but am afraid I am using too much? Is it doing more harm than good?

I can partly cover it with makeup, but it still looks like a dark peely scaly mask. I sure hope for this much down time, I get some results. I have 2 more scheduled a month apart.

From reading this whole thread twice, I see that this is mostly normal if it's an aggressive treatment. I just don't know what else to do to stop this itching and feeling like my face is cracking. My poor baby doesn't even recognize me.

Well, it's day 5 after my first Fraxel treatment. Yes, my Derm was aggressive (per my request) and I am still paying for it. I am not as swollen as the first couple of days, but I can't go out with this skin. It's still so dark red and tan and it's peeling up a storm. It's so tight and itches like mad. I keep moisturizing it, but am afraid I am using too much? Is it doing more harm than good?

I can partly cover it with makeup, but it still looks like a dark peely scaly mask. I sure hope for this much down time, I get some results. I have 2 more scheduled a month apart.

From reading this whole thread twice, I see that this is mostly normal if it's an aggressive treatment. I just don't know what else to do to stop this itching and feeling like my face is cracking. My poor baby doesn't even recognize me. :confused:

Hmmmm, I didn't have a problem for as long as you seem to be. Take a benedryl at night for the itching (call and ask the doctor first of course, it will make you very sleepy) Have you taken a warm shower and let the water run of your face for a bit to let the skin flake off. That seems to help for me. I usually have my treatments on a Wed and by Saturday I take a warm shower and then I can put on foundation and go about my business, my face is still a little swollen but no one could notice but me and by Sunday I can go to work with makeup to cover the redness and no one even noticed the swelling.

I used Cetaphil moisturizer with spf this last time as my MD forte moisturizer was breaking me out (I think). Moisturizing is a good thing to help the skin heal, dry skin doesn't heal as well or as quickly.

My side effects seemed to lessen after each treatment so maybe the next one will be better for you. My skin was pretty bad after the first one too. Good luck and hang in there.

The only reason I think this MIGHT be better is that the spacing of the microthermal zones are more controlled and even. There is less potential to have MTZs being laid down on top of one another causing a Macroscopic Thermal Zone. Would be interested to know what others think about this.

Interesting question, and it seems you are more familiar with this technology than I am. I never really understood whether the Fraxels was a pulsed laser or more of a steady beam? If the fraxel's tip scans the area then why the need to roll it across the face?

I think your hypothesis on treating small sections at a time being more precise sounds good in theory. However I'd be inclined to believe in real world practice there would still be a lot of overlap. As an example, I've seen many videos of CO2 lasers. They emit a "swatch" light first to show the practicioner exactly where the laser is going to shoot. Then the target area gets blasted by small pulses of the CO2 laser much like a dot-matrix style printer head. On the surface it would seem precise enough to administer exactly one layer of laser burn over the entire face, but the doctor routinely goes over the same area a few times. I think the logic behind this is to have the laser burn less than the actual desired depth with each pass so the doctor can go slightly deeper in some areas and shallower in others thus making his role in the whole process more that of a skilled painter than a human scanner. :shrug:

Either way, i sure hope the cheaper lasers are just as effective as the current Fraxel so that future treatments won't take such a toll on my finances. If we're lucky, the different laser tips will even complement each other so that each one works better on different types of scars and we can do one course of laser after another to yield even better results.

 

One of the selling points of Fraxel is (paraphrasing) "derms, get the latest system that will allow you to add a supplemental stream of income to your practice." Of course fraxel keeps coming out with a new system or upgrade periodically and the price of the laser and training isn't coming down so I don't think doctors can really reduce it too much. Even if they could they'd have little reason to since demand is only getting higher. Every postpartum mom is going to want fraxel now to reduce stretch marks.

Supposedly there is a CO2 fractional resurfacing laser coming out soon. It should work the same way by leaving the epidermis intact and creating thermal damage in the dermis. So the technique will be more like fraxel or pixel.

I think classic resurfacing ala dermabrasion and CO2 will eventually fall completely out of favor. Older docs will still perform it for years to come (on uneducated patients), but fractional resurfacing has already proved to be nearly as effective. Granted most laser derms still say CO2 is the "gold standard" but the risks and downtimes are so much greater. Plus there are things in the pipeline like the Fraxel+.

Someone on here is in the clinical trial for fraxel+ I believe. I think it is reliant's attempt to make a laser specifically for deep resurfacing like is needed for acne scars. The first fraxel was invented for pigment problems and minor wrinkles, they only realized acne scarring was a nice bonus application. But fraxel+ is their attempt to apply the theory of selective photothermolysis specifically to deep resurfacing--only my hunch.

My doc has got the Palomar. I also was worrying about that, but then contacted my derm who did my CO2 treatment 2,5 years ago (he does not have any fractional laser yet, but attends congresses and is always informed about new lasers) He told me there is no difference in quality, he also told me that rolling scars could be treated much more better than icepicks with any laser method. I am also wonderng about that you guys dont have any pretreatment. I have to cream aha acids every day prior to the fraxel....my first app is on Feb 14, so will see.....

probably little difference in quality if any, but I'd be suspicious of the doctor's training in using the palomar. their website and introduction to market is much less comprehensive thant fraxel's. and there is a learning curve with fractional lasers. even with experienced laser derms.

Interesting comment about Fraxel + being designed for scarring or deep resurfacing. I have come to the conclusion that the SR 750 has not really helped my scarring in a meaningful way, only pigment and skin freshness benefits. I would not recommend this model to a younger person looking for improvement to acne scars. Hopefully, Reliant will come up with a better solution as the first model has been ineffective for me (so far). Perhaps SR 1500 is way more effective, but JJP seems let down by that too. Anyway, I just want to share my honest feelings of disappointment on the scarring efficay of the first model.

Billyboy may I ask you what type of scarring you have?

Hello everyone~

I thought I would post an update on this thread.

Yesterday was my 3rd Fraxel/2nd Subcision.

The staff at the office said they could see improvement when I came in yesterday- it had been a month since my

2nd Fraxel and 2 months since my 1st subcision. A lot of people on the site claim that their swelling subsides in

about a week. I noticed that most of my major swelling is gone in about 4 to 5 days.

But until the microswelling goes down, it is very difficult to gauge the status of one's situation, and

like many of us, I was viewing the microswelling as actual improvement. It's important to know that collagen takes a while to rebuild itself.

Microswelling is on the cellular level and can mask the scars that still exist. That is what happened to me.

So by three weeks all of the swelling, both macro and micro, went down.

I was a bit down because I was seeing my scars coming back. Even though on an intellectual level I knew it was

unlikely that my skin would improve so fast, it was hard not to fall into the seduction of it all.

My skin looked wonderful for about 2 weeks after my second Fraxel treatment. By the third week, I still looked good, but I could start seeing

my scars a bit more clearly. Getting closer to the fourth week is when my microswelling was gone and I found it

difficult to tell if I really had much improvement. It was frustrating because it was as if I looked good one day and the very next day I was

back to my baseline state. Like me, many of you are probably perfectionists. We invest not only money but, more importantly, emotional energy.

So it's hard to be objective about our own skin. Especially when seeing ourselves day-to-day.

When I went back in for my third treatment yesterday, I needed to see my pre-treatment photos. They were so nice at the office, they printed some out for me. Everyone there that saw me said that they could see improvement. The doctor came in to do my 2nd subcision just before the Fraxel procedure so I was not swollen yet from the laser and he could get a good read on my improvement thus far. (I had my first one at the same time I had my first Fraxel). He said that it was difficult to tell where I needed the subcision this time since I really did improve. Of course I knew exactly where I felt

the scars were still bothersome. But it did make me feel a bit better that he could see a change. In fact, I showed him the photos that they printed out for me and compared to my skin now, I asked him how much improvement he thought I could get once I go through all five treatments, he said that he thought I had a 50% improvement now! Needless to say, I was happy to hear that.

I asked to have my treatment levels increased because I felt that is what needed for efficacy.

They increased my levels from 18 mjs to 20 mjs. I am very swollen and red right now, but know that is to be expected.

Something else I want to mention is that I really find that these treatements really cause me to break out for about three weeks afterwards.

They prescribed an antibiotic for me this time. I am not using any of the moisturizers or creams and only applying a 45 spf sunscreen prior to oil free make up. Cystic acne can flair up, so be prepared and head it off.

Anyhow, I just wanted to update everyone on my progress.

Thanks for "listening"! It's great having a forum of people who understand these very personal issues that I am not comfortable sharing with even my closest friends and family.

Annde

Hello everyone~

I thought I would post an update on this thread.

Yesterday was my 3rd Fraxel/2nd Subcision.

The staff at the office said they could see improvement when I came in yesterday- it had been a month since my

2nd Fraxel and 2 months since my 1st subcision. A lot of people on the site claim that their swelling subsides in

about a week. I noticed that most of my major swelling is gone in about 4 to 5 days.

But until the microswelling goes down, it is very difficult to gauge the status of one's situation, and

like many of us, I was viewing the microswelling as actual improvement. It's important to know that collagen takes a while to rebuild itself.

Microswelling is on the cellular level and can mask the scars that still exist. That is what happened to me.

So by three weeks all of the swelling, both macro and micro, went down.

I was a bit down because I was seeing my scars coming back. Even though on an intellectual level I knew it was

unlikely that my skin would improve so fast, it was hard not to fall into the seduction of it all.

My skin looked wonderful for about 2 weeks after my second Fraxel treatment. By the third week, I still looked good, but I could start seeing

my scars a bit more clearly. Getting closer to the fourth week is when my microswelling was gone and I found it

difficult to tell if I really had much improvement. It was frustrating because it was as if I looked good one day and the very next day I was

back to my baseline state. Like me, many of you are probably perfectionists. We invest not only money but, more importantly, emotional energy.

So it's hard to be objective about our own skin. Especially when seeing ourselves day-to-day.

When I went back in for my third treatment yesterday, I needed to see my pre-treatment photos. They were so nice at the office, they printed some out for me. Everyone there that saw me said that they could see improvement. The doctor came in to do my 2nd subcision just before the Fraxel procedure so I was not swollen yet from the laser and he could get a good read on my improvement thus far. (I had my first one at the same time I had my first Fraxel). He said that it was difficult to tell where I needed the subcision this time since I really did improve. Of course I knew exactly where I felt

the scars were still bothersome. But it did make me feel a bit better that he could see a change. In fact, I showed him the photos that they printed out for me and compared to my skin now, I asked him how much improvement he thought I could get once I go through all five treatments, he said that he thought I had a 50% improvement now! Needless to say, I was happy to hear that.

I asked to have my treatment levels increased because I felt that is what needed for efficacy.

They increased my levels from 18 mjs to 20 mjs. I am very swollen and red right now, but know that is to be expected.

Something else I want to mention is that I really find that these treatements really cause me to break out for about three weeks afterwards.

They prescribed an antibiotic for me this time. I am not using any of the moisturizers or creams and only applying a 45 spf sunscreen prior to oil free make up. Cystic acne can flair up, so be prepared and head it off.

Anyhow, I just wanted to update everyone on my progress.

Thanks for "listening"! It's great having a forum of people who understand these very personal issues that I am not comfortable sharing with even my closest friends and family.

Annde

Hi annde,

I'm very happy to hear about your results. I feel exactly as you do. It's great that other people are seeing your results. I've noticed small improvements after my 2nd treatment, things that I'm sure only I would notice. That's o.k. though, as long as I'm seeing something positive going on. Keep us updated, we love to hear good results! I'm going in for my 3rd treatment on Monday.

Billyboy may I ask you what type of scarring you have?

I have 3 excison scars that separated and turned out badly. My acne scarring is moderate quantity, mild depth and is the worst on my left side, with a combo of rolling, shallow box scars, and scarred pores. No scars on forehead. Very shallow rolling scars have responded to fraxel, but other scars seem unchanged. Fraxel has helped my skin look younger with even pigment, but sadly, not much improvement in scarring.

Billyboy may I ask you what type of scarring you have?

I have 3 excison scars that separated and turned out badly. My acne scarring is moderate quantity, mild depth and is the worst on my left side, with a combo of rolling, shallow box scars, and scarred pores. No scars on forehead. Very shallow rolling scars have responded to fraxel, but other scars seem unchanged. Fraxel has helped my skin look younger with even pigment, but sadly, not much improvement in scarring.

 

Billy,

When your derm did the excisions that subsequently spread, did he use a punch to excise the area or did he just do a straight scalpel excision? You might have mentioned this previously but I don't recall. I would tend to think it was the straight scalpel method if he attempted to combine scars with one excision however if they were very small and close together this might have been accomplished by using a larger punch? Just trying to get a gauge of whether or not the excisions were large enough to qualify for intradermal stitches. Also, how long did it take before the excisions spread?

Whats up everyone, just to update everyone on my situation....i had my first fraxel2 treatment jan 5th, almost a month ago. And although my skin is not where I want it to be I have seen the difference even after the microswelling. Last nite when I came home I looked at my face and I am happy to see the slight improvement, improvement that is worthy to go in for my second treatment. My second treatment is next Thursday. Like Annde, my swelling and peeling lasts only 4 days.

This time for my treatment im going to try to max out, 40mjs, level 8, 28%.... and i will tell her to focus on my cheeks. Hopefully after 3 or 4 treatments i will be happy with my results.

This time i am going to try to take pictures in the same lighting, angle, and time... so i am consistent with my pics. soo i will keep you guys posted.