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I am dissapointed w/ fraxel so far too. I mean is this treatment even for scars? I'm depressed right now. Skin still look crappy. It was great yesterday b/c of microswelling. I wouln't recommend ppl. who has moderate scarring to try this. So tired of reading this thread and not hearing good results. I feel more and more negative now.
Well today I met with Dr Phoebuswong down in richmond (another city by vancouver canada) at his clinic. First thing that striked me about that place is how much it looked like a shoe store and had that whole vibe rather than a place where a geniue doctor may work in. Well, I guess whatever works for him. I went over to the counter and saw two girls there, caked with a pound of makeup on each of their faces, for a second I thought I had entered the wrong place. No doubt he was definetly rolling in the dough, and I wasnt so sure about their results (at no time during the consultation did I see any before or after pics FROM this clinic itself, just promo pics in binders that every office already has). Right away I was asked to pay the 40 bucks, before I even saw that doc..... okay..... so all my (low) expectations were already met......
5 minutes after I was seated, I finished most of the form, the "nurse" pulled me into a private room, not a smile on her face, no humor, definetly the whole "out of touch" feeling grew deeper and deeper. I sat down, she didnt even close the door. We got a couple of snapshots of myself and she uploaded them onto the computer. Another 20 minutes passed, the doc came in. I was expecting him to get out of there asap but actually he did take some time and chatted with me.
The most positive thing from today was that he used this magnifying google/helmet thing and looked deeply into my scars/red marks. He tells me that the redness will go away with either vbeam or fraxel, but fraxel would be better cuz it will take care of the shallow (he calls them very early stage) boxcar scars. He says my scarring is quite minimal, its just the redness that sticks out, so I would benifit greatly from 3 or 4 fraxels. And of course, he told me about their 4xfraxel promotion which would come out as 2800 (regular price @ 3800, offer only lasts until end of jan.). He gave me I guess a more honest outlook on everything, maybe more than I expected. At the same time I know quite a lot about these types of lasers than many of the people who walk through his doors, and in general, skin related products, he was actually somewhat surprised, which was good, as I sort of let him know not to jerk me around as Im not another walking money bag he can take advantage of.
Right now the problem is the price. He said I will probably get good results from only 3 to 4 treatments, but he also warns me about how 10-20 percent of his patients (im guessing 99.9% asian, as am I) may experience dark pigmentation for weeks/months after these treatments (temporary). I cant really afford the down time, otherwise how can i finance these treatments? He wants to pretreat me with hydroquione, which Dr jang from skinworks (a horrible "derm" in Vancouver that I had to deal with last summer) sold me in the form of obagi (which is never met to treat acne scarring/redness in the first place!). I dont work well with HQ creams, and if i do get darker skin afterwards, Im going to have a tough time lightening everything up. Do I want to speak 3k on treatments that I know MAY benifit me, but at the same time, may lead to MORE problems? Or do I wait, and maybe try another laser place?
I left Dr wong feeling slightly more relieved, that fraxel may actually be my final hope, but on the same token, I know these lasers were never really made with asian skin in mind, even though fraxel is as good as it gets right now..... I think before the month ends I must make a choice, whether I go to dr wong or maybe another laser surgeon ..... either way I will give fraxel a shot. Ive read good stories AND bad ones about it (redness/pain/NEW scars from fraxel, little to 10% results from multiple treatments).
Also ,both Dr wong and the nurse tells me that I should get my whole face treated rather than just my cheeks were the scars are..... now is it wise? He says that my cheeks will stand out for a long time (im guessing hes warning me about the hypopigmentation) so its better if my whole face got darker than just parts of it..... maybe Im reading too deeply into this but doesnt that mean its going to hurt me more by doing fraxel to parts of my face that dont really need it?
All in all, I think Dr wong isnt a bad doctor, hes quite capable of doing good work. Hes a funny guy too, he even jokingly said "I really hate it when people are not happy with my work", when he basically promised me that my results will be significant and shouldnt have any side effects.... but when the treatments are gonna go down, he aint gonna be the guy doing it, it will be one of those robotic "nurses", whom I dont know if I can really trust. I guess we'll just have to see.
Oh yeah, one more thing, he says that my red marks/shallow scarring does not relate in any way to blood vessels under my skin. At least I know right now Im dealing with straight forward shallow scarring, which isnt much of a relief but at least I know what to look out for now.
I found this thread 3-4 months ago and have read all 165 pages, but have not offered comments until now. Perhaps some background might be helpful. I am 42 and suffered from cystic acne from the time I was 13. AT 17 I was one of the first people in my area to be treated with accutane. It brought significant improvement, but I was left with moderate scarring- both atrophic and hypertrophic. I tried collagen injctions at the time, with little success. For the next 20 years I tried to accept the scarring and live life. Like many of you, I experienced self esteem issues and suffered socially because of the scarring, but I was able to make due and actually excel in other areas of life. I have had occasional breakouts over the years, and the scarring has gotten worse. Recently I decided it was time to take action again.Fortunatley, money is not longer an issue, so I read numerous threads and did lots of research to determine the most rational approach regardless of cost. Fraxel seemed to offer a chance for meaningful improvement with little downside, so I searched for a Dr. that seemed to actually care about helping her patients find success rather than just cashing the check. I found one. She is very bright, does not suffer from the Doctor/God complex, and has some very good before and after pictures of how fraxel has worked with her patients. She is also willing to answer questions and listen to ideas that I have regarding treatment.
I started treatments several months ago and had my 4th last night. The first 3 were with the Fraxel 750 at mjs between 20 and 25 (7-9 KJs total energy) and spaced 2-4 weeks apart depending on my schedule. My last was with the Fraxel 1500 at 40mjs and an 8 setting. Unfortunately, my results to date have not been good. When I read Billyboy's posts I can certainly relate. My atrophic (mostly rolling and boxcar) may have improved on an overall basis by 10%, but my hypertrophic scars on my cheeks look worse. I didn't notice this until after the 2nd treatment but I seem to have 1 new hypertrophic scar and the old ones have increased in size. After last night's treatment the hypertrophic scars are much more pronounced and definitely larger. VERY DISCOURAGING!
Of course my hope is that the difference in the raised scars is due to some temporary swelling that will dissipate in a few months, but my fear is that I am indeed developing new collagen and it is increasing the size of my hypertrophic scars. I am at the point now where I am unsure that I will even have my remaining two procedures even though I have already paid for them. The good news (small consolation) is that, like Billyboy, Fraxel has significantly improved sun damage and skin tone.
I will try to keep you updated on my progress, but if you are attempting to treat raised scars with Fraxel ---- BEWARE
Hi JDM, I don't know if this will make you feel any better or not, but I have a raised scar on the side of my nose from having cysts in the same spot over and over again years ago, and quite a few raised "lumps" from too much Restylane injected a few years ago. The Fraxel treatments have, over time, diminished all of these. Right after I have the laser, and for about 4 or 5 days afterward, these lumps are VERY swollen. The swelling dimishes after 1 to 2 weeks. I hope that these scars will go down in time for you too. Good luck to you.
I am dissapointed w/ fraxel so far too. I mean is this treatment even for scars? I'm depressed right now. Skin still look crappy. It was great yesterday b/c of microswelling. I wouln't recommend ppl. who has moderate scarring to try this. So tired of reading this thread and not hearing good results. I feel more and more negative now.
[/quote
MZ,
Please don't lose hope! I believe that many people with good results no longer visit this site and have moved on with their lives. Someone else pointed this out on another thread or post and it definitely makes sense. It's only natural that by default, many of the posts on Acne.org will fall into one of three categories, information seeking, dissatisfaction with treatment results or bad experiences. I believe it's sometimes difficult to accurately rate the effectiveness of these treatments because as people get better, they don't need the support that many of us find on this site and most likely they've moved on, thus we don't see evidence (pictures, testimonials) of their successful outcomes. Don't get me wrong, this Web site has been a wonderful resource and I am sure it's helping so many people. But one has to consider that such factors come into play, when analyzing the overall efficacy of a treatment. I know that once I have completed my treatments, and hopefully satisfied with the overall results, I will move on. I might want to go on for another series of 5 Fraxels, for ultimate effect, but I am starting to believe I will only need the initial 5 to be very happy.
I am early in the Fraxel/Subcision series but not in scar revision attempts. I have had 3 courses of Accutane therapy, fillers of all types, CO2 laser resurfacing, IPL, numerous micro-dermabrasions, not to mention all the over the counter products along the way. I know what it's like to feel hopeless. Fraxel is working for me. My scars are greatly reduced now! They are not completely invisible, but you have to really peer at my skin to see them. I can honestly say that I am no longer self-conscious of my skin and feel very self-confident.
I think it's important to have realistic expectations. I think that many people who aren't happy with their results, have had unrealistic expectations. I don't know your situation, and I certainly don't want to make light of it or sound patronizing, but have you seen any improvement? Are you able to get the clinical photos from your doc's office? If you're like me, you look at yourself critically, numerous times a day and perhaps you don't see the subtle improvements ensuing.
Everyone's skin responds differently to any one procedure. Perhaps a combo of two or more procedures will be your answer. All I can say is don't give up, let your skin heal, build up for at least 6 months after you've completed the Fraxels before doing something else. You're young and several of your scars will hopefully smooth out in time from all that you've done.
Okay MZ, you have just finished reading a POSITIVE post on this thread. Keep your head up and best wishes to you
Annde
Well today I met with Dr Phoebuswong down in richmond (another city by vancouver canada) at his clinic. First thing that striked me about that place is how much it looked like a shoe store and had that whole vibe rather than a place where a geniue doctor may work in. Well, I guess whatever works for him. I went over to the counter and saw two girls there, caked with a pound of makeup on each of their faces, for a second I thought I had entered the wrong place. No doubt he was definetly rolling in the dough, and I wasnt so sure about their results (at no time during the consultation did I see any before or after pics FROM this clinic itself, just promo pics in binders that every office already has). Right away I was asked to pay the 40 bucks, before I even saw that doc..... okay..... so all my (low) expectations were already met......5 minutes after I was seated, I finished most of the form, the "nurse" pulled me into a private room, not a smile on her face, no humor, definetly the whole "out of touch" feeling grew deeper and deeper. I sat down, she didnt even close the door. We got a couple of snapshots of myself and she uploaded them onto the computer. Another 20 minutes passed, the doc came in. I was expecting him to get out of there asap but actually he did take some time and chatted with me.
The most positive thing from today was that he used this magnifying google/helmet thing and looked deeply into my scars/red marks. He tells me that the redness will go away with either vbeam or fraxel, but fraxel would be better cuz it will take care of the shallow (he calls them very early stage) boxcar scars. He says my scarring is quite minimal, its just the redness that sticks out, so I would benifit greatly from 3 or 4 fraxels. And of course, he told me about their 4xfraxel promotion which would come out as 2800 (regular price @ 3800, offer only lasts until end of jan.). He gave me I guess a more honest outlook on everything, maybe more than I expected. At the same time I know quite a lot about these types of lasers than many of the people who walk through his doors, and in general, skin related products, he was actually somewhat surprised, which was good, as I sort of let him know not to jerk me around as Im not another walking money bag he can take advantage of.
Right now the problem is the price. He said I will probably get good results from only 3 to 4 treatments, but he also warns me about how 10-20 percent of his patients (im guessing 99.9% asian, as am I) may experience dark pigmentation for weeks/months after these treatments (temporary). I cant really afford the down time, otherwise how can i finance these treatments? He wants to pretreat me with hydroquione, which Dr jang from skinworks (a horrible "derm" in Vancouver that I had to deal with last summer) sold me in the form of obagi (which is never met to treat acne scarring/redness in the first place!). I dont work well with HQ creams, and if i do get darker skin afterwards, Im going to have a tough time lightening everything up. Do I want to speak 3k on treatments that I know MAY benifit me, but at the same time, may lead to MORE problems? Or do I wait, and maybe try another laser place?
I left Dr wong feeling slightly more relieved, that fraxel may actually be my final hope, but on the same token, I know these lasers were never really made with asian skin in mind, even though fraxel is as good as it gets right now..... I think before the month ends I must make a choice, whether I go to dr wong or maybe another laser surgeon ..... either way I will give fraxel a shot. Ive read good stories AND bad ones about it (redness/pain/NEW scars from fraxel, little to 10% results from multiple treatments).
Also ,both Dr wong and the nurse tells me that I should get my whole face treated rather than just my cheeks were the scars are..... now is it wise? He says that my cheeks will stand out for a long time (im guessing hes warning me about the hypopigmentation) so its better if my whole face got darker than just parts of it..... maybe Im reading too deeply into this but doesnt that mean its going to hurt me more by doing fraxel to parts of my face that dont really need it?
All in all, I think Dr wong isnt a bad doctor, hes quite capable of doing good work. Hes a funny guy too, he even jokingly said "I really hate it when people are not happy with my work", when he basically promised me that my results will be significant and shouldnt have any side effects.... but when the treatments are gonna go down, he aint gonna be the guy doing it, it will be one of those robotic "nurses", whom I dont know if I can really trust. I guess we'll just have to see.
Oh yeah, one more thing, he says that my red marks/shallow scarring does not relate in any way to blood vessels under my skin. At least I know right now Im dealing with straight forward shallow scarring, which isnt much of a relief but at least I know what to look out for now.
Hmmm that doesn't sound like a very good encounter you had with that office/spa. It's to bad that the doctor spent so much time with you and really looked at your skin (something no one has done with mine) but if that doctor isn't the one performing the fraxel then I would not do it. No way. I would tell the doctor that is the breaking point for you, either he does it or you will look elsewhere. Good luck.
Yes the only reason I get so frustrated is because my scars are so mild. I'm most concern w/ my surgical scars b/c its so big and stands out. Well i'm on my 4th treatment. I'm not sure how many you've had so far. I don't know how anyone w/ worse scarring than mine deal w/ everything. I really want to move on w/ my life where I don't have to think about my scars anymore. I'm going for treatment 5 end of this month. As of now, I feel like I might need 5 more treatment but I'll wait 6 months. I really hope there will be something better out there for Acne Scars in the future. Why do we have to suffer like this 
? Also the downtime is just insane. My average downtime is 6 days and 6x5= 30 days. All my time and effort and seeing not much improvement. I'm so tired of it all. Sorry I must vent but thanks for the positive note.
I am dissapointed w/ fraxel so far too. I mean is this treatment even for scars? I'm depressed right now. Skin still look crappy. It was great yesterday b/c of microswelling. I wouln't recommend ppl. who has moderate scarring to try this. So tired of reading this thread and not hearing good results. I feel more and more negative now.
[/quote
MZ,
Please don't lose hope! I believe that many people with good results no longer visit this site and have moved on with their lives. Someone else pointed this out on another thread or post and it definitely makes sense. It's only natural that by default, many of the posts on Acne.org will fall into one of three categories, information seeking, dissatisfaction with treatment results or bad experiences. I believe it's sometimes difficult to accurately rate the effectiveness of these treatments because as people get better, they don't need the support that many of us find on this site and most likely they've moved on, thus we don't see evidence (pictures, testimonials) of their successful outcomes. Don't get me wrong, this Web site has been a wonderful resource and I am sure it's helping so many people. But one has to consider that such factors come into play, when analyzing the overall efficacy of a treatment. I know that once I have completed my treatments, and hopefully satisfied with the overall results, I will move on. I might want to go on for another series of 5 Fraxels, for ultimate effect, but I am starting to believe I will only need the initial 5 to be very happy.
I am early in the Fraxel/Subcision series but not in scar revision attempts. I have had 3 courses of Accutane therapy, fillers of all types, CO2 laser resurfacing, IPL, numerous micro-dermabrasions, not to mention all the over the counter products along the way. I know what it's like to feel hopeless. Fraxel is working for me. My scars are greatly reduced now! They are not completely invisible, but you have to really peer at my skin to see them. I can honestly say that I am no longer self-conscious of my skin and feel very self-confident.
I think it's important to have realistic expectations. I think that many people who aren't happy with their results, have had unrealistic expectations. I don't know your situation, and I certainly don't want to make light of it or sound patronizing, but have you seen any improvement? Are you able to get the clinical photos from your doc's office? If you're like me, you look at yourself critically, numerous times a day and perhaps you don't see the subtle improvements ensuing.
Everyone's skin responds differently to any one procedure. Perhaps a combo of two or more procedures will be your answer. All I can say is don't give up, let your skin heal, build up for at least 6 months after you've completed the Fraxels before doing something else. You're young and several of your scars will hopefully smooth out in time from all that you've done.
Okay MZ, you have just finished reading a POSITIVE post on this thread. Keep your head up and best wishes to you
Annde
You're having 5 days of downtime? I only have around 3 days of downtime treatments are usually on Wed, Wed to Thur(1), Thur- Fri (2) and Fri - Sat (3) by mid day Saturday I can shower and put make up on to cover the redness and go about my business. The downtime doesn't really bother me anymore.
Downtime bothers me alot. It's like a truama to me. I feel like I am going to be one of those unlucky ones who doesn't see results from Fraxel. So scared that nothing is working for me and I have to start looking from square one. I feel like i'm cursed w/ this disease. I don't mind doing the treatment if it works. That way I could relax b/c I wouldn't have to wonder in my head. 4th treatment is the shortest downtime (4 days). I am not looking forward in doing this all over again. If it works then I wouldn't mind suffering from the downtime. The problem is that Its getting real close towards the end of my treatments and I'm so scared that I will be dissapointed by the results. Yesterday I litterly fainted when I saw my scars all came back. Those surgical marks aren't fading either. I feel and look like a lab rat (not human/normal).
You're having 5 days of downtime? I only have around 3 days of downtime treatments are usually on Wed, Wed to Thur(1), Thur- Fri (2) and Fri - Sat (3) by mid day Saturday I can shower and put make up on to cover the redness and go about my business. The downtime doesn't really bother me anymore.
Downtime bothers me alot. It's like a truama to me. I feel like I am going to be one of those unlucky ones who doesn't see results from Fraxel. So scared that nothing is working for me and I have to start looking from square one. I feel like i'm cursed w/ this disease. I don't mind doing the treatment if it works. That way I could relax b/c I wouldn't have to wonder in my head. 4th treatment is the shortest downtime (4 days). I am not looking forward in doing this all over again. If it works then I wouldn't mind suffering from the downtime. The problem is that Its getting real close towards the end of my treatments and I'm so scared that I will be dissapointed by the results. Yesterday I litterly fainted when I saw my scars all came back. Those surgical marks aren't fading either. I feel and look like a lab rat (not human/normal).I'm so sorry to hear this. What has your doctor said?
You're having 5 days of downtime? I only have around 3 days of downtime treatments are usually on Wed, Wed to Thur(1), Thur- Fri (2) and Fri - Sat (3) by mid day Saturday I can shower and put make up on to cover the redness and go about my business. The downtime doesn't really bother me anymore.
MZ
If you think about it, you probably won't see your full results until somewhere between March and August, based on a six-month lag between your first treatment in October and your last treatment in February.
I know it is easier said than done, but maybe you should hold off judging the results until then and take the pressure off yourself.
When you say your scars have come back, are you saying that on day 10 (Jan 14) from your January 4 treatment, that they are back to square one, or do they look a bit smoother at this point, but you can see they haven't completely disapeared? You have experience with how your skin is initially healing to these treatments and since you've been waiting a month between treatments, do you find that the micro-swelling is completely gone by the 10th day from your treatment or do you know from experience that the scars are slowly going to reappear to there "normal" condition by your next Fraxel, based upon their current appearance?
Annde
Mz, I know I have said this before, but my experience is that fraxel has virtually no effect on my surgical scars. I wish I had never gone that route with excisions by an unskilled surgeon. One of my adult daughters aked me why I was so sun burned and I told her that I was having fraxel to "burn off" acne scars. Her comment was that she did not even know I had acne scars (until I mentioned it), just a couple surgical scars, and why would I get lasered with a bad sun burn for something that people can't see. As we know, we can see them, and if we get up close in really harsh light it can look bad, but I do think for many of us, it is nowhere near as bad as we think.
I agree with Annde that results will improve with time if you are a responder, but maybe not on excisions. I really meant to say that my experience is that it does get better with time, so I am sure you willl be happier in a few months than you are now, just don't expect miracles.
I am really pleased for Annde because she has had such great results and I deem her to be very credible, as well as helpful. There is probably something to the combo of subcision and fraxel. I disagree with her to a small extent on her comment that we don't hear back from those who get a great result. I understand why this is likely to happen and no doubt does happen, but I also know that there are occasional posters that pop in once and say they got zip from fraxel. It has always bothered me that there is no photo documentation of great results from posters who promised to do so.
I am mildy happy with my fraxel results (mainly rejuvenating old skin), but it has done very little for scarring.
Its been 3 days since my 2nd Fraxel spot treatment for depressed scars. (Energy = 20, Density = 125, Passes = 8)
My skin bronzed and flaked 2 days quicker than last time. The flaking is about 90 % complete. Now, unfortunately, I have pink/red patches that will probably last another 4 - 5 days.
I am frusterated because this time, I am not getting the micro-swelling that made my scars invisible. Last time, my scars were totally invisible for about 10 days - because of the micro-swelling. Now, my scars are as visible as normal (and probably even more visible because of the redness).
I am starting to doubt the effectiveness of Fraxel for reducing scarring. I know it is early in my treatment - but, I was hoping for at least 1% improvement by now...
-Ralphie
Ralphie, it is way to early to draw conclusions as you just started treatment. Trust me, it improves with time. I would start to worry if you still feel this way 6 months after your first treatment.
Go with what your Dr. says, but I think 20 mjs is too low for scarring, unless it is superficial. You take risks going higher than that with SR 750, but I think based on my own limited experience and reading, it is important to have a deeper injury than what 20mjs does for acne scars. Also, it is good to know total KJs with full face becasue that tells you about degree of overlap and overall thermal injury and is a good benchmark for comparison purposes.
I started treatment on Oct. (check signature) The scars has gotten smoother, I've mention that before. So far there is minimal improvement. This time scars look the same as 3rd treatment. So that's why I'm frustrated. I thought things will get better w/ more treatments. Althought I should wait at least 2 weeks or 4 more days from today. I don't mind seeing those scars for now and gradually work on them. I think I'm mostly stressed out on this large surgical scar and somewhat on those other ones (I had 5 excisions). Its bad enough I still see my shallow scars but on top of that I have linear marks in random spots. I have to say that my doc. did a bad job w/ excision. I still have scars in those areas.
Before Jan. 10th. I had a patch of dry skin on top of the surgical scar which made my face look much better (covering the indent). It looks all leveled. I was anticipating that spot to improve. I just couldn't deal w/ a stab wound like on my cheek. I really regret having excision done on that spot. I only did it b/c my doc. told me that those would go away. Had I know it would leave a crater I wouldn't do it. Its me suffering in the end.
Yes the micorswelling went away on day 10th. It was so hard to wake up one morning and you see your skin looking crappy again. The microswelling made me believe that my shallow scars were gone. On the other times I could still see scars during microswelling period. I think most of you guys have more patience and stronger than me. I really can't live my life to be scarred and ugly. Just thinking about that is depressing. I've been distracting myself by keeping my mind off of my face (trying to stay positive n all) and staying away from this forum (cause it's depressing reading some post). I realize some of those newbies staying so positive might fall in the same situation as me later on. Ne ways, I couldn't help but cry my eyes out when I saw my face on Jan 10. I had to come here for support. Sorry, I know I am depressing u guys.
I really agree w/ billyboy now. I don't think it's b/c of age he's not seeing results (b/c I'm in the same situation). Maybe I'm saying this too soon (i don't know) but I really hope that I am wrong. I want to see more improvements.
Also I was so happy before Jan. 10. I really thought my skin was better, I know now that its due to micrswelling. I even went out in public w/o makeup just sunscreen (also with the dry patch skin). My mom says she could tell n see I had scarring. That was on Jan. 9th. I just can't believe things change so quickly the next day.
I'm not expecting miracles, I'm expecting to get the same results as those photos posted on Fraxel homepage. But I'm starting to disbelieveing it now.
MZIf you think about it, you probably won't see your full results until somewhere between March and August, based on a six-month lag between your first treatment in October and your last treatment in February.
I know it is easier said than done, but maybe you should hold off judging the results until then and take the pressure off yourself.
When you say your scars have come back, are you saying that on day 10 (Jan 14) from your January 4 treatment, that they are back to square one, or do they look a bit smoother at this point, but you can see they haven't completely disapeared? You have experience with how your skin is initially healing to these treatments and since you've been waiting a month between treatments, do you find that the micro-swelling is completely gone by the 10th day from your treatment or do you know from experience that the scars are slowly going to reappear to there "normal" condition by your next Fraxel, based upon their current appearance?
Annde
Just another question for you guys out there. My main concern is red marks but the Dr tells me that its also from the shallow scarring that the red marks show up from. Im wondering would fraxel be good enough to really treat both or will I need to vbeam later on to take away the red marks? I dont want to pay for two things when I can do it with just one (fraxel). However im not sure if fraxel is optimal in treating redness in the scars themselves.
I've told people I could not see their scarring when in fact I could see it plainly.
I knew it would make them feel better, and in the end how they feel about themself is the most important thing. So I lied.
I know people have lied to me to make me feel better. My family, friends, etc. Sometimes they just don't want to be rude or are otherwise uncomfortable about talking about it. Mostly I think they know I'm sensitive about it, so they don't want to say anything to make it worse.
Some people can see it but don't think it's a big deal, so they lie. Or they give you a non-committal answer like "I hadn't really noticed." Honestly I'd rather people lied to me than tell me my face looks permanently fucked up. But that's just me.
I have a question about the what others have experienced during their peeling process after a Fraxel. I read that when you peel, it is similar to a sunburn peel. My skin is not flaking off in large pieces like it did when I had a sunburn (sorry if this sounds gross). At first I did not think it was peeling at all because it is subtle, but it seems to be peeling and almost has the consistency of dandruff. It is now day 4 counting Friday, the day I had my 2nd Fraxel. Any thoughts here are appreciated. Thanks!hey this is how im peeling... Annde, i also got my fraxel done on jan 5th.. and this is what my skin looks like as of tonite.
Cool dude. looks like you have some new spots of baby soft skin.
question though. does fraxel affect the beard? looks like you lost some hair in those baby spots?.
no, fraxel doesnt affect the beard. I shave in the morning. As of tonite I have pretty much peeled off 95% of the skin. a little more shedding to do. i have been keeping a photo gallery of my progress and will post once i feel the micro swelling is gone. Like i said previously, the results are not dramatic... very subtle and that maybe because i dont have severe scaring. I would consider my scarring light to moderate.
How is it that fraxel doesn't affect the pilosebaceous unit? I know the target chromophore is water (not melanin like laser hair removal, or hemoglobin like intense pulsed light).
But if it can treat telangiectasia how is it that it doesn't induce alopecia (hair loss) or destroy the oil gland?
On another fraxel thread, Meliscona incorrectly posted that Fraxel burns and thins the skin, so i thought I would post my understanding from several research papers. Namely, Fraxel "simultaneously targets the epidermis for pigment, texture and tone, and the dermis for collagen remodeling and resulting dermal thickening". Several noted Doctors have commented on how Fraxel thickens the dermis through collagen induction, rather than the reverse. It is only mildly ablative. For example, in my recent treatments I believe the depth of injury is almost 10 times larger than the diameter of the mtz column. I have had no flaking from the last 2 sessiosns.
In my case, the improvement in epidermis is obvious (outstanding), but I have had only subtle changes in the thickening of the dermis at this point, but am hoping for and expecting more. It is this latter effect that softens and fills in acne scars.
A word about excisions:
Since there are many posters that have reported marginal results at best with excisions, I took the opportunity today to discuss surgical techniques with a professor of plastic surgery whom I know and trust.
As said, when attempting to avoid a poor surgical outcome the most important consideration aside from the obvious such as avoiding infection and using proper revision techniques ect. are WOUND TENSION as wounds subjected to tension due to motion, facial location, or loss of tissue after excision are at increased risk of the scar of spreading and subsequent atrophy or even hypertrophy.
What I find of particular importance is that poor surgical outcome is almost always avoidable by splinting the tissue with permanent or semi permanent intradermal sutures beneath the skin such as a polyprolene suture that can be left in place for six months. Permanent clear nylon sutures can also be placed deep into the dermis to ensure spreading/atrophy almost never occurs.
He also believes that all absorbable sutures (which are widely used) lose much of their tensile strength in about 4 weeks which is not nearly long enough to splint the wound sufficiently to prevent widening/scar atrophy.
Moreover, it is theoretically possible a full thickness incision that is not splinted properly may heal with such little underlying dermis left intact that its collagen regenerative abilities are severely diminished. This would explain why Fraxel or any other lasers would have little to no effect on these types of surgical scars. Once this happens the only remaining options are re-excision or fillers.
I should add that when excisions are performed properly on a healthy individual they are capable of healing nearly undetectably if they are resurfaced within 4-6 weeks post excision. That said, some people simply heal better then others however these techniques GREATLY increase your chances of receiving a good surgical result.
The above mentioned is all the more reason to be selective of your chosen surgeon as these techniques are not always used in everyday practice.
Troubled, Thanks again. My excisions spread and atrophied to the dismay of my derm. Another mistake he made was to take out a couple scars with one incision, rather than multiple small incisions. These are best left to PS, who know how to perform the deep dermal stitching. I know fraxel is not going to help mine for the reasons you state.
Once again I want to ask if fraxel is on the same level as vbeam in terms of dealing with red marks or redness left from acne / within acne scars. Anyone here had any good experiences with fading red marks using fraxel or vbeam?
Your help is much apprieciated.
PS has anyone heard about the genesis laser? I went to one plastic surgeon office yesterday and he recommanded to do this treatment to take care of my red marks.
So i just had my second fraxel today. I'm looking pretty scary. The pain was worse this time around. As of right now, i have blood spots all over my face and my face is oozing a bit, and it's hard, but when i touch it to be sure there is enough moisturizer, it's slimy. I guess, i just have to give it a few day's. I didn't ice my face the first time around, maybe that will help. I'm not as swollen as i was the first time, wondering if that will come tomorrow. Any way, will post if i see improvement. I do have to say that i did see a slight improvement after my first fraxel, now when i say slight, i mean very tiny improvement in the texture. We will see if i get any improvement from this one. Take care.
It is now 6 days after my 2nd Fraxel spot treatment for depressed scars. (Energy = 20, Density = 125, Passes = 8)
My skin is still pink, but not nearly as bad as 2 days ago. The microswelling is now in full force and has made my scars totally invisible again!!! I am so happy and confident right now (but I know it will only last another 5 - 7 days).
This is a different timeline than my first treatment:
With my first treatment, the microswelling appeared immediately after the flaking stage (day 3 - 4). This time around, I had a 2 day stage (day 4 & 5) of red + shiney + embarrassing skin (even without moisturizer). Now (day 6), my skin is less red, much less shiney, and the texture is perfect (No visible scars!).
The doctor used the same exact settings this time. Perhaps the timeline has changed because he went over skin that was still not 100% recovered from the 1st treatment...
-Ralphie
Once again I want to ask if fraxel is on the same level as vbeam in terms of dealing with red marks or redness left from acne / within acne scars. Anyone here had any good experiences with fading red marks using fraxel or vbeam?Your help is much apprieciated.
PS has anyone heard about the genesis laser? I went to one plastic surgeon office yesterday and he recommanded to do this treatment to take care of my red marks.
you're not seeing dr. seekel are you? he has a webpage that people post questions and he answers everyone that laser genesis is the best and fraxel sucks.
anyway, if you just have red marks there is probably something cheaper like coolbeam or nlite. if you have any scars or texture problems in addition to red marks then fraxel is probably worth it.
or you could just wait. red marks will fade with time. sometimes a lot of time.