All I can say now is that my skin isn't perfect, it's just back to what I use to look before I did the 100% TCA. So I'm back to where I originally started so I'm happy about that. I'm gonna keep quiet until I finish all of my treatments. TTYL.

ps: I'm looking forward to read others progress.

Hi,

did the tca damage the skin.. have you had any chemical peels done..

All I can say now is that my skin isn't perfect, it's just back to what I use to look before I did the 100% TCA. So I'm back to where I originally started so I'm happy about that. I'm gonna keep quiet until I finish all of my treatments. TTYL.

ps: I'm looking forward to read others progress.

Hi,

did the tca damage the skin.. have you had any chemical peels done..

Quote:

fraxel according to dermatology magazines is a laser of its own kind...

ok so i been away from the boards lately, i been busy with work and over time, shoot i need money. now that i just came back earlier to just check up usually, i get pms from good friends and new friends you could say. aside from that, i sense/read a lot of negative impact/feedback in this thread regarding fraxel...so here is my 2 cent...

FRAXEL is the best method in the market at the moment for scarring is what i think, if it is not then why is it FDA approved. yes it is expensive, the most expensive of all treatment/lasers but you know what, it works! sure some might have good outcome on it, and some might have excellent outcome. i for one believe that diet plays a powerful role in healing post fraxel. like i stated before, vitamin c and protein is the answer. try to eat organic, and not vitamins wise, i dont even take any more vitamins for the body doesn't use it if it has a balanced diet.

ok as for my fraxel expereinces so far. sorry if i am having typos and grammar/spelling errors, its just im so tired from work and i want to go to bed already but i feel that i should input on my information. i have had 2 fraxel done so far, the first is 16mjs full face, 8 passes total, and 4 passes additional on scarred areas. the 2nd fraxel is 20mjs full face at 8 passes, and 4 additional passes on scarred areas and my nose cuz i wanted to treat the enlarged pores/black heads. so far so good, best money i've spent on scar treatment ever, eventhough its expensive as fukk. my results i would say *runs to mirror* well i cant give a percentage really but i can say that my shallow scars gotten more shallow with each fraxel, and my deepest scars are responding very well, note that my deepest scar is this thick || and it has filled in about 3/4 and a lil more so far, idon't really know what else to say but i can't wait til my next treatment on jan 4th, and after that 1 more, so thats 4 total, i can't wait to get it over with and move on from this horrible but powerful learnign experiences of my life, and i know that my scars can be cured, if there's a will, there's a way, always have hope and eat healthy!

End Quote:

Simply_Me,

How long did you wait between your first and second treatment and how long has it been since your 2nd Fraxel treatment? Also, did you experience a break out after either of your treatments?

Thanks,

Annde

All I can say now is that my skin isn't perfect, it's just back to what I use to look before I did the 100% TCA. So I'm back to where I originally started so I'm happy about that. I'm gonna keep quiet until I finish all of my treatments. TTYL.

ps: I'm looking forward to read others progress.

Hi,

did the tca damage the skin.. have you had any chemical peels done..

 

Yeah the 100% TCA did. I've tried lots of chemical peel before Fraxel. Sometimes it helped, most of the times it made it worse. But the results were not permanent.

That's an interesting theory TCBC but I'm not sure how accurate it is. I'm sure Troubled can help us out with this. Funny thing but I have seen my deepest scars soften but my more shallow scars don't seem to be filling in. I'm not totally sure as I am trying not to focus to much on my face at the moment.

There was an interesting video in the Activex/ ActiveMax thread with a video and a doctor selling the virtues of this new C02 machine. I would be interested to hear what other people think about this video.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php?showtopic=130402

I haven't watched the last video dysfunction posted yet.

JJP,

With atrophic scars usually the smaller scars begin to show the most improvement as they need less collagen to fill as opposed to larger/deeper scars. One possible explanation would be that perhaps your Dr. has been focusing on the larger scars more with a greater number of passes on those areas. It may also be micro swelling although most of the swelling should have subsided by now if your last treatment was on 12-6. All the best to you.

I have finished a series of eight MINI FRAXEL treatments (each treatment covers only 8% of the whole face so the redness and swelling will fade much faster), but I combined the seventh and eighth fraxel into full fraxel to see what will come to. My dermatologist set the energy level to 40, 8 pass, 125. But after ten days since my last treatment, my face is still very red but not swollen. the past six mini fraxel treatments took me around 5 days to get my face's pink color turned into normal. but now, why is my face still so red.....

I think I have seen around 50% percent recovery, many of my shollow scars filled in....but....I have to say it takes time to see the result, it's not a one day recovery, but several months...even after the last treatment......

Could you guys tell me how long it takes your face turn into normal color from redness?

Edit: Its been 20 days since my 3rd treatment

I realized now that ppl. with mod-severe scarring must get more than 1 series of treatment to see results.

My scars are considered mild and I am seeing some difference now but all of the scars are unfortunately still there. It looks more shallow. I'm really eager to find out what they will look like after my 4th & 5th treatment. Does anyone know if there will be a bigger change? I hope it gets better n better. I feel like I can relax now unlike my 1st treatment. Luckily I had you guys to keep me on track and stick w/ the treatment. I really hope that 5 treatments would be enough for me (fingers crossed). My largest surgical scars are looking better. The indents has filled in but that spot doesn't look normal or not 100% leveled yet. I'm still seeing lines on my other ones. I think it's cause I'm Asian and it takes longer for them to go away.

I've mentioned many times that my scars are red color but I've been seeing collagan filling in some and it's white or my skintone. But okay, I just thought I share my progress. All I can say now is that my skin isn't perfect, it's just back to what I use to look before I did the 100% TCA. So I'm back to where I originally started so I'm happy about that. I'm gonna keep quiet until I finish all of my treatments. TTYL.

ps: I'm looking forward to read others progress.

You won't get 100% improvment or 'normal' skin. The fraxel will reduce the scars not eliminate them. It sounds like you are having great results so far so continue on and be happy.

I have finished a series of eight MINI FRAXEL treatments (each treatment covers only 8% of the whole face so the redness and swelling will fade much faster), but I combined the seventh and eighth fraxel into full fraxel to see what will come to. My dermatologist set the energy level to 40, 8 pass, 125. But after ten days since my last treatment, my face is still very red but not swollen. the past six mini fraxel treatments took me around 5 days to get my face's pink color turned into normal. but now, why is my face still so red.....

I think I have seen around 50% percent recovery, many of my shollow scars filled in....but....I have to say it takes time to see the result, it's not a one day recovery, but several months...even after the last treatment......

Could you guys tell me how long it takes your face turn into normal color from redness?

It's completely normal to be red for a few weeks after a Fraxel with the settings you mentioned above. Completley normal. It will gradually go away. It sounds like you too are having great results too.

My skin is looking more filled in every week so I'm excited to have my 4th treatment next week!!!!!

simply me- have you had any problems going in the sun ? and do you still have to use retina a and hydroquinone even when youve had your session or its only needed to prepare your skin?

:naughty: no no, i avoid the sun at all cost....i spend most of my days in my office working anyways. but when i do drive to work in the morning i use neutrogena sun sheer 30spf with moisturizer in it, and i also have a fedora use to block the sun on my head/face then a big ass sunglasses, the sun is bad for your skin, period. plus i like to be white then dark, no offense. also sun will really fukk up ur results from fraxel, trust me...

i do not use retin a, i just moisturizer and eat healthy, i usually use hydroquinone like 2 weeks prior to my fraxel but i think for this one i will use it in a week or so not sure, i use it only to prepare my skin, nothing else.

Simply_Me,

How long did you wait between your first and second treatment and how long has it been since your 2nd Fraxel treatment? Also, did you experience a break out after either of your treatments?

Thanks,

Annde

GOT MY FIRST FRAXEL TREATMENT TODAY!

Here's what I have to say: Ouch!

I have read many post about getting fraxel done, but I wasn't as prepared for it as I thought I would be. First, Instead of using a numbing cream, my doc did about 6 nerve blocking injections into my face! Then, I got about 12-18 more injects into my face with some fluid that swells my face inorder to raise my scars. He says this allows the laser to reach the deeper scars more effectively, and claims he has seen better results with this method... BTW, I only got my cheeks done, but it was my full cheeks, only leaving my forhead and chin untouched. Well I would have to say the preparation was the most painful and longest part of the procedure. Because my skin is fair, the doc said that it would be okay to go with a higher setting and left it up to me to decide. He said a higher setting would allow for the best results, but would be more down time. Of course I took the higher setting! I want to get my moneys worth! I wasn't able to keep track of the settings the doc used because I had some goggles on to protect my eyes. But I did here the doctors talking about using a setting of about 18...

The rest of the procedure was smooth sailing except for the occasional passes that exceeded the areas that were not numbed. It felt similar to having someone roll a hot curling iron over my face. It was enough to make me flintch. The doctor used an air blower after finishing each pass. I would say the air was about 30-35 degrees Fahrenheit. Felt nice on my skin. Well I plan on getting 5 more session if my finances allow. I have taken some pre and post pictures which I will post up as soon as I get the chance to download them onto my comp.

As of now, 5 hours after the treatment, I have a mild burning sensation. My cheeks are pink/red. Some parts of my face are still slightly numb, but is wearing off quickly now. My face is still VERY swollen. By far more swollen then when I got my wisdon teeth out. But most of the swelling is from the fluid injects which the doc said will take 24 hours to go down.

It's completely normal to be red for a few weeks after a Fraxel with the settings you mentioned above. Completley normal. It will gradually go away. It sounds like you too are having great results too.

My skin is looking more filled in every week so I'm excited to have my 4th treatment next week!!!!!

hi jjp007

Could you tell me exactly how many weeks it took your face to recover the normal tone from the redness? My last "fraxel 2" setting was 40 energy, 125, 8 pass. my doctor told me it is the maxium setting for treating acne scars. Still, have you been using any skincare to enhance your recovery quality? From my sixth treatment, I found my face began turing pinky on the morning whenever using c-vitamin lotion during my nighttime rest. I don't know why....My doctor told me maybe my face begin becoming allergic to skincare.....Could you tell me your skincare regime?

Newpride, those settings sound like SR 750, not SR 1500; but I may be mistaken, Anyway, if Fraxel 1 or SR 750, those settings are the max and I believe Troubled thinks those settings are dangerous on SR 750. Don't worry becasue I understand it is safer with SR 1500 to go with 40 mjs but there is a corresondong level that genrally has a lwer density. In any event, it may take a ong time to recover form that burning. Do you know total KJs for full face? Also Vit C is a acidic so that will also irritate skin. What does doc say?

Chika, interesting comment about pulling scars to level them to get more mtzs into scar. It makes much sense to me except it may increase risk of too much energy in concentrated areas of thinned skin by virture of stretching skin.

Simply me, your results are way better than mine. I am seeing improvment but my scars are pretty shallow except for 3 excisions and it is not as dramatic as your improvment. Copngrats!

Troubled, do you have any comments on the scar pulling and Newprides's settings. What settings are you having?

kanmi, here is the link

http://www.bcm.edu/dermatology/?pmid=2331

simply me also questioned why would fraxel be FDA approved if it didnt work. fraxel has a "510k" which is not hard at all to get. basically the company just runs a few tests (NOT clinical trials) to show it is safe. they then notify the FDA of their intention to market the device and that's it.

there is another kind of FDA approval called PMA or pre market approval. this is much harder to get, so of course fraxel does not have a PMA approval in any area, not even for melasma.

Hi Billy,

I am so sure the fraxel my doctor used is Fraxel 2, my doctor was a consultant for relient's fraxel 1 laser. I don't remember what the dosage is for my treatment but I have confidence in my doctor. the skincare I have been using is call C-mollient, its ingredients are Cyclomethicone, tetratexyl-decyl ascorbate, polysilicone-11, toco-pheryl, camellia oleifera and bisabolol. It is said to be good for enhancing the production of collagen. I don't know why my skin has become a little bit allergic to skincare since my sixth fraxel....I have been using C- mollient since my first treatment.......anyway....my doctor said I could use it at two days interval.....

Could you give me any advice?

My understanding is that the difference between fraxel 1 and fraxel 2 is the updated software, is this correct? I asked my doctor about fraxel 1 and 2, he said that he has never heard of it refered to as that. He said that reliant recently updated the software for the laser, which was recently FDA approved.

Here is a site which may be on some interest, [Removed]

Newpride, I'm not qualified to give advice because we are unique, your settings were higher than mine, and I am not using the facial creme. Your doc knows way more than I.

That siad, I would say that my swelling is gone after 4 dasy and I am comfortable with how I look at day 5. I had my last treatment on Dec 13 and I am still slighlty pink, tan 16 days later. It does not bother me, as it does not look unnatural. Also, I started applying Retin A at day 10 because I had a couple pimples and because of the links that recommedned Vit and C to accelerate collagen induction in scarrred areas, which promotes pinkness and peeling.

If the pink really bothers you then you should ask your doc whether to discontinue the creme. However, it would appear he/she thinks it has a benefit and pinkness is often regarded as a sign of healing. Others have used creams and tints to lessen pink, but I have not, so I can't make a recommendation. I don't evn know if the Retin A at 10 dasy is a good idea.

kanmi, here is the link

http://www.bcm.edu/dermatology/?pmid=2331

simply me also questioned why would fraxel be FDA approved if it didnt work. fraxel has a "510k" which is not hard at all to get. basically the company just runs a few tests (NOT clinical trials) to show it is safe. they then notify the FDA of their intention to market the device and that's it.

there is another kind of FDA approval called PMA or pre market approval. this is much harder to get, so of course fraxel does not have a PMA approval in any area, not even for melasma.

hate to play the devil's advocate but if that "510k" is not hard at all to get, why isn't any other laser FDA approved for acne scarrings? please answer that, no pun intended of course

Newpride, I'm not qualified to give advice because we are unique, your settings were higher than mine, and I am not using the facial creme. Your doc knows way more than I.

That siad, I would say that my swelling is gone after 4 dasy and I am comfortable with how I look at day 5. I had my last treatment on Dec 13 and I am still slighlty pink, tan 16 days later. It does not bother me, as it does not look unnatural. Also, I started applying Retin A at day 10 because I had a couple pimples and because of the links that recommedned Vit and C to accelerate collagen induction in scarrred areas, which promotes pinkness and peeling.

If the pink really bothers you then you should ask your doc whether to discontinue the creme. However, it would appear he/she thinks it has a benefit and pinkness is often regarded as a sign of healing. Others have used creams and tints to lessen pink, but I have not, so I can't make a recommendation. I don't evn know if the Retin A at 10 dasy is a good idea.

Billy, no topicals can actually help improve anything, only diet my friend. However, I have had sucessful results with a topical known as "Hyluronic acid", not sure if i spell it right but i highly doubt that i did, but yea, aside from that, a good moisturizer like CETAPHIL or perhaps NEUTROGENA moisturizer with spf30 in the daytime is perfect , well works for me. also thanks congratulating me on a battle well fought that is half way won so far. best of luck to you buddy

^^ your scarring is nothing buddy, i would take that anyday, lol, you just have the orange texture,and fraxel would help you.

kanmi, here is the link

http://www.bcm.edu/dermatology/?pmid=2331

simply me also questioned why would fraxel be FDA approved if it didnt work. fraxel has a "510k" which is not hard at all to get. basically the company just runs a few tests (NOT clinical trials) to show it is safe. they then notify the FDA of their intention to market the device and that's it.

there is another kind of FDA approval called PMA or pre market approval. this is much harder to get, so of course fraxel does not have a PMA approval in any area, not even for melasma.

About the FDA approval thing.......it was addressed here http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...0124&hl=FDA

As someone who works in the medical device industry, I can say this is pretty inaccurate. 510K approvals are essentially fast track approvals because there are devices that do similar things already on the market. The FDA doesn't require full clinical trials, because the previous devices have already done the heavy lifting. A PMA is for devices that do something completely new and there is no previous clinical trial information off of which to build. The 510K is just as much a validation of a device as a PMA is.

And there were clinical trials on the Fraxel and it was FDA approved for melasma

http://www.reliant-tech.com/newsdetails.cfm?NEWSID=4

Now it's FDA cleared for acne scarring

The latest FDA approval for the Fraxel laser extends clearances obtained in 2003 for soft tissue coagulation; in 2004 for skin resurfacing and for correction of periorbital wrinkles and pigmented lesions, including age spots, sun spots and skin discoloration; and in 2005 for the treatment of melasma.

I have found many of my scars are caused due to unevenness of epidermis, some area of my epidermis is too thinner, when compared with the thicker epidermis area, it looks depressed....So, how could I do to make the thin epidermis area thicker in order to get the epidermis of my face look unevenly?....any diet? vitamin? or skincare????

those are clinical studies at best, they call them "clinical trials" but they are not the double blind, three tier, yada yada, kind of studies they have to do for PMA approval.

I'm not saying fraxel is bad at all. I think its great. I just think people should realize what an FDA 510k approval is, how it's applied for and approved, etc.

kanmi, here is the link

http://www.bcm.edu/dermatology/?pmid=2331

simply me also questioned why would fraxel be FDA approved if it didnt work. fraxel has a "510k" which is not hard at all to get. basically the company just runs a few tests (NOT clinical trials) to show it is safe. they then notify the FDA of their intention to market the device and that's it.

there is another kind of FDA approval called PMA or pre market approval. this is much harder to get, so of course fraxel does not have a PMA approval in any area, not even for melasma.

hate to play the devil's advocate but if that "510k" is not hard at all to get, why isn't any other laser FDA approved for acne scarrings? please answer that, no pun intended of course

 

i think there are other lasers like cooltouch that have a 510k approval. i could be wrong . . .

im not knocking fraxel, but I cringe when i hear people say things like "its FDA approved so it must be good."

FDA trials: Someone pointed me to a website that showed Smoothbeem also got FDA clearance for acne scarring, yet most patients/posters see little benefit, so I was surprised to read this. From what I read of the Fraxel clinical trials, there was no double blind control group to be evaluated by the independent appraisers. I think that is a flaw in the study design and am a little surprised that the FDA did not insist on this, but I guess they felt safety had been proved so they accepted a less than perfect study of effiacy.

That said, I do think Fraxel is starting to work for me, not great or fast, but good enough to justify my cost and time. For me it simply takes several treatments and time. Also, I think most people with deep scarring and unaggressive treatment will be disappointed. So, I recommend this for those with shallow scars who have time and money to invest in their face. While I think diet is important, it is also helpful to apply topicals that have been scientifically proven to accelerate collagen production.

Smoothbeam helped me a bit (so much that my friends noticed more then I did and I even had one friend who is doing Smoothbeam and Fraxel treatments by my doctor) and now over 3 years later I need further help so I am doing Fraxel.

Fraxel originally passed FDA approval for soft tissue coagulation (i think that's what I read this morning) and from there they got the 510K approval for the melasma and acne scarring. This is the way most laser type machines get approved. So saying that a 510k FDA approval is nothing is incorrect is all I am saying.

Any process that is FDA approved can be dangerous, of course! That is why you have to make sure you do your research and find the best doctor with the most experience.