billy, why don't you experiment and try not to shave for the next two weeks and see if it helps keep irritation down, less flaking, and moister skin.

where are all the pictures? so many people in here claiming that they're doing fraxel yet nobody is posting any before/after pics! um hello?

There were a few posters earlier in this thread who posted pictures but have since taken them down. I am only on treatment 3 of 5 and I won't be posting any pictures until around 3 or 4 months post final Fraxel 2 treatment. I am even goign to try and get copies of the pictures the doctors office is taking. They use a table wtih a camera on a dolly type machine that takes pictures from the same angle every month I come in.

 

i only saw billy's pics, but that's it.

where are all the pictures? so many people in here claiming that they're doing fraxel yet nobody is posting any before/after pics! um hello?

There were a few posters earlier in this thread who posted pictures but have since taken them down. I am only on treatment 3 of 5 and I won't be posting any pictures until around 3 or 4 months post final Fraxel 2 treatment. I am even goign to try and get copies of the pictures the doctors office is taking. They use a table wtih a camera on a dolly type machine that takes pictures from the same angle every month I come in.

 

i only saw billy's pics, but that's it.

 

Well most of the current posters are mid treatment. I can't tell you why the people who were in this thread in the beginning (ages ago 😉 didn't post pictures. I know there were at least two other poeple who posted pics, one was a girl because I looked at her pictuers and that helped me decide to do this treatment. It was quite a ways back in this long thread and I can't even remember her name now.

The Fraxel 2 machine is very new, it came out in August I believe and most people are still midway through the treatments. It's not a one time deal.........it's a long process that takes time and patients and multiple treatments.

where are all the pictures? so many people in here claiming that they're doing fraxel yet nobody is posting any before/after pics! um hello?

I believe the girl that JJP was referring to is annniefrommiamii (P. 100). She also has a blog documenting her experiences with Fraxel and was gracious enough to provide quite a few pictures http://www.picturetrail.com/annniefrommiamii

Everyone likes to see pictures but let's be realistic, not everyone feels comfortable with posting pictures of themselves over the internet for the same reasons that few people choose a user ID that indicates their real name. Privacy issues are a BIG concern for most people on the internet and a lack of pictures does not necessarily have anything to do with the efficacy of Fraxel or any other treatment for that matter. No one here OWES anyone the burden of bearing intimate details about their life! I have yet to find an abundance of pictures for ANY topic on this forum.

Day 11 since my 1st Fraxel treatment... (Energy = 20, Density = 125, Passes = 9)

My skin is still slightly pink and dry in the areas that have been treated. It is difficult to notice though, and continues to fade gradually every day.

My worst scar (medium-depth, pitted scar on nose) is still much less visible than pre-treatment. The edges are much smoother than before treatment. It is much less noticeable in bad lighting than it was before treatment. Although, unfortunately, it is no longer invisible (the way it was for the 1st 4 days).

My other scar (medium-depth, ice-pick scar on check) is also improved. Although not as dramatic as the one on my nose... The edges are softer and the deepest part is more shallow.

Before and after pictures show obvious improvement. But I will not post anything until I am finished with my 5th and final treatment... (especially because there still may be "micro-swelling" going on... Ulthough I doubt it)

-Ralphie

Troubled, do you have any thoughts on shaving or on steam baths? It has been 4 days and I hate the stubble. We are having a friends over tongiht and I don't like the greasy (aquaphor) stubble, so I was planning to wash and shave.

I am not seeing an improvement and the sweling never made my scars look better, but I have a thick stubble so it is hard to tell.

I agree that those pictures are Annie's. I wish she would return as a poster and that others would post pictures.

Troubled, do you have any thoughts on shaving or on steam baths? It has been 4 days and I hate the stubble. We are having a friends over tongiht and I don't like the greasy (aquaphor) stubble, so I was planning to wash and shave.

I am not seeing an improvement and the sweling never made my scars look better, but I have a thick stubble so it is hard to tell.

I agree that those pictures are Annie's. I wish she would return as a poster and that others would post pictures.

Billy,

Using an electric razor should be fine. Not sure about the steam bath though. A quality moisturizer should reduce the appearence of the flakes.

No flakes yet, as aquafor is as greasy as vaseline. I recall that it happens around day 6 or 7. I think I will be careful with manual razor and pass on steam bath and swimming for another week minimum.

There have been many posts that claim that higher energy treatments at 125 provide less coverage...this is wrong. As the energy is increased the size of the beam is larger in diameter and the depth of penetration increases. The percent of coverage is a factor of the energy level, density (125/250), and the number of passes. So don't mislead others in saying that anytime you use more energy and decrease the density to 125 you are not getting as much coverage as a low fluence treatment. For example: a treatment at 8mj/250/8 passes calculates to coverage of about 15-17%. But a treatment at 20mj/125/10 passes is coverage of about 22-24%.

There have been many posts that claim that higher energy treatments at 125 provide less coverage...this is wrong. As the energy is increased the size of the beam is larger in diameter and the depth of penetration increases. The percent of coverage is a factor of the energy level, density (125/250), and the number of passes. So don't mislead others in saying that anytime you use more energy and decrease the density to 125 you are not getting as much coverage as a low fluence treatment. For example: a treatment at 8mj/250/8 passes calculates to coverage of about 15-17%. But a treatment at 20mj/125/10 passes is coverage of about 22-24%.

for most i think the issue is fluence since scars are deep. i actually think less coverage is good if you are going deeper, as long as you are getting six treatments.

Don't want to weigh in on this between experts, but I do notice that 8x250x8=16,000, while 20x125x10=25,000. I would think some of the extra fluence with higher mjs partly goes to depth and partly to wider thermal injury zones as noted by Murla, due to splaying and collateral heat injury (hence the need for lower density), so I can see where it would make sense that the 8mj example might get 16% while the 20mj setting would get less than 25% coverage. Intuitively, I would guess that it might be more like 20% as opposed to the upper bound of 25% from my relativity algorythm.

That said, I have no knowledge on the effect of these concentrated light beems.

Also Murla, you seem like an expert, any comment on my settings? I am 55 and have moderate amounts of scarring on lower face but mild depth.

Don't want to weigh in on this between experts, but I do notice that 8x250x8=16,000, while 20x125x10=25,000. I would think some of the extra fluence with higher mjs partly goes to depth and partly to wider thermal injury zones as noted by Murla, due to splaying and collateral heat injury (hence the need for lower density), so I can see where it would make sense that the 8mj example might get 16% while the 20mj setting would get less than 25% coverage. Intuitively, I would guess that it might be more like 20% as opposed to the upper bound of 25% from my relativity algorythm.

That said, I have no knowledge on the effect of these concentrated light beems.

Also Murla, you seem like an expert, any comment on my settings? I am 55 and have moderate amounts of scarring on lower face but mild depth.

Your setting look just fine. I don't tend to treat over 20mj since I haven't received my upgraded SR1500 yet but am looking forward to the capabilities. Treating over 20mj just causes more trauma on the surface without much more benefit than 20mj. The validity of total KJ with treatments over 20mj is a little suspect as well but I think you have been getting very thorough treatments and should be pleased with your physician. I like to have at least 8KJ of total energy for a full face treatment.

fraxel for asian skin clinical results.

only 1 treatment, probably with fraxel sr750 but with good results.

http://www.iacd2006.com/abstract/58.htm

Clinical results of Fraxel laser treatment of various scars in Asian

# Sang Ju Lee, Yonsei Star Skin and Laser Clinic, Korea

# Jin Moon Kang, Yonsei Star Skin and Laser Clinic, Korea

# Young Koo Kim, Yonsei Star Skin and Laser Clinic, Korea

# Jin Young Jung, Yonsei University Medical College, Korea

# Ju Hee Lee, Cutaneous Biology Research Institute, Yonsei University Medical College, Korea

# Dong Hyun Kim, Yonsei University Medical College, Korea

# Min Geol Lee, Yonsei University Medical College, Korea

Background: A variety of scars causing serious cosmetic issues are encountered in clinics. Fraxel laser is currently FDA-approved for the treatment of periorbital rhytides, photocoagulation of pigmented lesions, melasma, skin resurfacing. Also it is indicated for the treatment of acne scars, surgical scars, atrophic scars, striae, etc.

Purpose: Our purpose was to evaluate the efficacy of Fraxel laser in the treatment of various scars in Asian.

Patients and Methods: A total of twenty eight patients with scars were included. Twelve males and sixteen females with mean age of 31.3 years (range: 9-50 years). Their scars include acne scars(15), surgical scars(4), traumatic scars(5) and burn scars(4). Each scar was treated only one time using a Fraxel laser after EMLA applications. The results were obtained by clinical assesment with photograph and questionnaires completed by both dermatologists and patients one month after treatment. The outcomes of treatment were assessed as excellent, good, slightly effective, and no response.

Results: The overall outcomes were evaluated as excellent(21%), good(44%), slightly effective(21%), and no response(14%). For acne scars, the treatments were evaluated as excellent(40%), good(47%), slightly effective(13%), and no response(0%). For traumatic scars, the results were good(40%), slightly effective(40%), and no response(20%). For burn scars, the treatments were slightly effective(25%), and no response(75%). The complications from Fraxel lasers treatment were only transient erythema and slight hyperpigmentation, which were not serious at all.

Conclusions: Our results showed that Fraxel laser treatment was very effective in the treatment of scars in Asians. Among various scars, the efficacy of treatment was good for depressed acne scars, thin surgical scars and traumatic scars. But for burn scars, its efficacy was minimal due to thickness of scar.

I've been off accutane 1.5 months. no acne now. i just got done shaving and am depressed at the scars that i've been left with. they are small and im really hoping after i get fraxel in a year's time i will finally be happy with my skin . . .

Murla,

I should add that 250 MTZ/cm2 pass density beyond 12-14 mJ is contradicted anyway due to the increased risk of bulk heating. I am unaware of anyone that has taken the risk of treating with full pass density beyond those fluences. How about you?

Murla,

I should add that 250 MTZ/cm2 pass density beyond 12-14 mJ is contradicted anyway due to the increased risk of bulk heating. I am unaware of anyone that has been treated with full pass density beyond those fluences. How about you?

You are absolutely right. I don't treat with 250 past 12mj. What happens, for those who are wondering why, is that the higher energy beams have a larger diameter and the density becomes too great thus defeating the purpose of fractional resurfacing - it becomes ablative with blistering and such. I know that Fitzpatrick has tried everything and if we aren't doing it as standard treatment it means that it probably wasn't worth the increased risk of scarring, hyperpigmentation, etc.

Great information by the way troubled skin...I am appalled at the misinformation on this site!!!

I've been off accutane 1.5 months. no acne now. i just got done shaving and am depressed at the scars that i've been left with. they are small and im really hoping after i get fraxel in a year's time i will finally be happy with my skin . . .

JJ,

We tend to be our own worst critic. Try to remember that to others they are often not as bad as they may seem to you.

Masterk

Would you provide your treatment data in your signature? Thanks

Well I will try and put everything there. I had Fraxels done when they were very new and really dont know

what the levels and all of that were. i had nbot even found this site or knew their signif until after I had them

done.

12 punch excisions to the apples of my cheeks to remove a combination of small groups of ice picks and moderate

ones, nothign really deep.

Healed for a month or so.

went in monthly for 6 Fraxel treatments afterward to remove minor scars and to remove the light lines and redness from the

excisions.

About 96% or more of the scars are history. It was all expensive as hell but well worth it.

 

MasterK, i'm really happy about your improvement, you seem to have had a great plan to eliminate your scars. just curious, did you get your entire face lasered with fraxel or just where u got the excisions? also, did the fraxel help at all to get rid of the redness from the excision and if so, how many treatments till you think the redness was gone? Thanks in advance.

I could have waited till the red faded out totally, but opted for the Fraxels simply to treat the

red and lines and mainly for minor scars that were too shallow and superficial to do anything with

as far as excision goes. The excisions only take about 2 weeks to heal and are easy to hide

wiht concealer or somethinglike that. Excision is a great choice I think if u want ot just cut out

thhe scars right now and be done with them.

For men excision is not a big deal. If u are cool with line scars (which look kinda rugged and not

real bad) then u will not need any further treatment. Light resurfacing of any kind should smooth

the little line scars right out thougha nd blend wiht the rest of the skin.

would a 30% tca peel three week post 5th fraxel make any difference to the redness and the overall "un-nantural" skin tone and color (bronze racoon like look)?

would a 30% tca peel three week post 5th fraxel make any difference to the redness and the overall "un-nantural" skin tone and color (bronze racoon like look)?

I was just wondering other than the redness how do your scars look? Did they improve enough for the whole process to be worth it? Would you recommend it to others? And can you estimate a percent of improvement? Thank you. 😀

I could have waited till the red faded out totally, but opted for the Fraxels simply to treat the

red and lines and mainly for minor scars that were too shallow and superficial to do anything with

as far as excision goes. The excisions only take about 2 weeks to heal and are easy to hide

wiht concealer or somethinglike that. Excision is a great choice I think if u want ot just cut out

thhe scars right now and be done with them.

For men excision is not a big deal. If u are cool with line scars (which look kinda rugged and not

real bad) then u will not need any further treatment. Light resurfacing of any kind should smooth

the little line scars right out thougha nd blend wiht the rest of the skin.

How many Fraxel treatments does it take for the lines to fade?

would a 30% tca peel three week post 5th fraxel make any difference to the redness and the overall "un-nantural" skin tone and color (bronze racoon like look)?

I was just wondering other than the redness how do your scars look? Did they improve enough for the whole process to be worth it? Would you recommend it to others? And can you estimate a percent of improvement? Thank you. 😀

 

For me i dont think it was worth the buck. Looking from two feet away my skin looks a lot better, but a closer evaluation shows the scars havent really improved not even the shallowest ones. BTW on a scale of 1-10 (10 being most severe), as compared to every pic i have seen on this board my scars were a good 9.

Anyone on the tca question??

Hellz. I have never had a peel, so I have no knowledge. My intuiton however is that it will irritate the skin further. If anything, Fraxel helped me on this score. There is an IPL laser that is supposed to help with redness. Ask your Doc.

Based on my experience with Fraxel to date, I don't think it will be that helpful with deep scaring. It is a great tool for a face with lots of scarring of mild depth, but I think the changes are so subtle that it won't work well for deeper scars. Awhile back, Kooky pmed me that he thought 8 Fraxels would provide the efficacy of 1 dermabrasion (he had one by Dr Y, as well as subsequent Fraxels). If you can find an expert (hard to do), I think that dermabrasion is best for deep scarring, followed by ablative lasers as second preference. Fillers will probably help later.

That said, I think there is a huge risk with dermabrasion and ablative lasers, especially if you have dark skin. So, it is a tough call.

From my own experience to date, it is to hard to imagine how fraxel will make a huge difference with deep scars.

Is fraxel supposed to help with raised white scars? and has anyone experienced repigmentation of flat HYPOpigmented scars? I read an article that said this might be possible. My scarring is mostly hypopigmented, shallow rolling scars with a few raised ones here and there. Luckily I have very pale skin so it is not too notiable. But I was wondering if fraxel would be a good option for me?