You don't have severe scarring this is moderate and textural. You have mainly rolling, some box cars, and some icepicks. Good you need subcision first with filler or saline injections with Chinese cupping (amazon). You need about 3 of these. You can rotate them with your Infini treatment which you need 3 of. Have a dr, med spa, or yourself see FAQ - top of the scar solutions sub, first post, goto tca, then the link for DIY. TCA cross you will need several of these to raise the small boxcars and icepicks, Finally do a deep sedated peel with a dr to get under the remaining texture or several medium strength peels. Average treating time is 3 years as you have time and money. The body heals in 3 months after a treatment, so space out your treatments.

Giving you honest feedback. I would agree that your scarring is on the more severe side, which is only apparent with the bottom pictures. In the top pics, you look like you have mild / moderate scarring, but the later pics do show the true depth of your scars. Pics 6&7 shows what you're talking about. Your case demonstrates how lighting can totally change how scars look in pics / real life.

From my experience, subcision with filler is most appropriate in this case. Saline injections are gimmicky, and I have never seen results that worth mentioning with that technique.

6 hours ago, fromm said:

I am planning to do 3 Infini treatments for start. The first treatment is planned for next week. What do you think about this?
Any additional advices on how to proceed with my journey?
How bad do you find those pictures (I believe you have seen a wide range of scar types on this forum) and what kind of improvement can I expect?

From 1 to 10, I would rate your scars as 6, considering not just the depth but how extensive they are. Okay, with that said, I want to mention that I've had 2 Infini so far and I believe I've gotten pretty good results. However, lately I've come to learn about this enzyme called "serrapeptase", which literally eats away dead scar tissues (aka fibrin). Without going into any technical mumbo-jumbo, let me just say that this thing rocks. In less than 2 weeks (can't remember exact date when I started taking it), my scars already look much better. So once you get the Infini, I suggest you start popping 3 pills of serrapeptase (1 pill, 3x day) in empty stomach (very important!) and then apply the powder topically as well (it dissolves quite well). Good luck going forward!

17 minutes ago, dazzed said:

Your case demonstrates how lighting can totally change how scars look in pics / real life. 

+1
Many users here would be on the more severe side actually if they would post pics in the right lighting conditions. Excellent documentation & very honest, thank you, @fromm
Keep us updated. I wish you all the best

Scarring can be subjective or objective. If one is using the Derriford subjective scale, excluding BDM (which you do not have), this more than likely can be considered as severe. Objectively, if one is using the Goodman- Baron scale, you have grade 4 scars. By definition these are scars that are non-distensable, and seen at conversational distances or further, under normal lighting. Grade 4 scars by definition is classed as 'severe' objectively.
A few comments without touching your skin - left upper cheek, right lower cheek - is there thickening? If so, the INFINI RF solenoid will not penetrate to the depth dialled in. If possible, see a specialist who has the avenue to 'swap devices ' on the run. For example, if the treated areas are doing well with no solenoid or spring push back, push on. If you have resistance and the spring is not powerful enough to penetrate fibrotic or thickened areas, a good specialist will augment his treatment with say an Ultrapulse CO2 Fractional to get to this depth, or even an Intensif (it has a weaker deliver RF system with a maximal pulse duration of 200 ms, but much stronger solenoid, so it will go through thick areas or scarring). Remember, it is not the device that makes the biggest difference, its the operator behind it. Infini RF is a good tool, but its also tricky to use. A good dermatologist or plastics will always adjust on the run, depending on tissue resistance and carbon build up of the tip.

7 hours ago, beautifulambition said:

You don't have severe scarring this is moderate and textural. You have mainly rolling, some box cars, and some icepicks. Good you need subcision first 

Yes - thank you. I was also considering subcision considering the reviews and results online. Do you have an idea in which order and what should be an interval between subcision and infini. can it be done at the same day? I will talk also with my dr about this. Based on the reviews and scientific articles that I have read, there should be at least 6 weeks between Infini treatments. Do you think that Infini is even suitable for this type of (severe or not :D) scars and what can I expect? Infini is relatively new technology in my area and I don't have many options regarding the treatment providers and a bit worried about their experience in this. 
I noticed in your posts that you are more in favor of 'mechanical' and not energy type of treatments so this is one of reasons why I am asking and value your perspective on this.

1 hour ago, dazzed said:

 In the top pics, you look like you have mild / moderate scarring, but the later pics do show the true depth of your scars.  Pics 6&7 shows what you're talking about.   

Yes, that is my impression too...  

1 hour ago, Sirius Lee said:

 However, lately I've come to learn about this enzyme called "serrapeptase", which literally eats away dead scar tissues (aka fibrin). 

Hi, thank you for your advice. I noticed your topic about alternative options for treatments. Can you maybe provide any scientific studies regarding serrapeptase? I like the general idea, that it can increase healing options during the standard treatments. Can you make a distinction between Infini results vs medication intake?
Also, it would be good if you can provide more info regarding the dosage per day/intake (or even manufacturer, I don't know if forum rules allow this or is it xconsidered an advertisement?) of the products you take?

49 minutes ago, Obi wan said:

A few comments without touching your skin - left upper cheek, right lower cheek - is there thickening? If so, the INFINI RF solenoid will not penetrate to the depth dialled in. 

You mean like hypertrophic scars? Are they elevated?
No, they are not like that. Or you mean can you feel the difference between the scar and surrounding skin?
Again no - if you go with your fingers across the skin you can not notice scars. I would even say that my skin feels even smoother ans thinner in that scarred area. Is this helpful in determining whether Infini would be helpful? I can take more pictures (e.g. stretching my skin on cheeks ) if that helps.  

I would just like to wish you the very best of luck on this journey. It will be long, but hopefully you see some substantial improvements and achieve real happiness. I look forward to reading about future updates.

2 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:

From 1 to 10, I would rate your scars as 6, considering not just the depth but how extensive they are. Okay, with that said, I want to mention that I've had 2 Infini so far and I believe I've gotten pretty good results. However, lately I've come to learn about this enzyme called "serrapeptase", which literally eats away dead scar tissues (aka fibrin). Without going into any technical mumbo-jumbo, let me just say that this thing rocks. In less than 2 weeks (can't remember exact date when I started taking it), my scars already look much better. So once you get the Infini, I suggest you start popping 3 pills of serrapeptase (1 pill, 3x day) in empty stomach (very important!) and then apply the powder topically as well (it dissolves quite well). Good luck going forward!

Seriously... !

You've tried this for 2 weeks......?
A supplement or topical that "eats" scar tissue....? 

Please come up with some really good (and i mean really good) research on this or stop feeding this nonsense to people who genuinely want to improve their scarring.

@frommThe body does not like mega treatments, ... it does not heal quickly. You need 3 months for the collagen to build minimum. This is why I always say space things out over 3 years when you have time and the resources. See how you heal and what works best for you. You can subcise and do the rf mironeedling on the same day... But should you. My point of thought is I like to separate treatments for maximum healing. The body swells and is inflamed after just sub.

(Keeping the 3 month thing from above in mind) Treatment sched: Subcision then filler when the swelling goes down, ... then do your rf microneedling. Another top up with subcision if they missed anything. Another RF Microneedling session, then another. You can do your TCA Cross in there at any time. Fit in that last subcision with filler when the filler runs out and needs a top up (any time). Finally do your surface TCA peels or a sedated deep peel with a DR, (Many Drs will push Erbium resurfacing instead as a alternative). This will allow for maximum healing of your body. Again this all depends how you heal, what you have time and money for.

Its not that I do no beleive in energy devices, I just like to minimize your side effects and potential cost. In my view laser should be a last ditch effort if nothing else works. RF microneedling protects the epidermis making it a better treatment than laser for many (less side effects).

Yes you will get results but only with a combined treatment of all those things. They all work on different planes / issues of the skin.

I don't use the scale for scarring Obi Wan does, ... I have helped thousands and I just go by what I have dealt with regarding severity. I think you can get some good improvement especially with subcision and filler. You are not the worst case I have advised if your asking that. It's all subjective right, you want improvement and that is what we are doing.

Regarding " serrapeptase " it's a natural supplement well known on naturalpathic forums. It's more for young scarring as a preventative more than a cure. The way some people take collagen supplements. Some have noticed no improvements with it. It's not a miracle, results may vary.Anecdotal reports suggest that serrapeptase could be effectively used to remove scar tissues. Unfortunately, there are no clinical studies to show that serrapeptase could remove scar tissues on the surface of the skin.

Obi Wan is asking if you have thickening of the skin. Trying to determine the thickness or thoughness of the skin when you pinch or feel the scars to know if the spring from Infini or if your in Europe Intracel (has a stronger motor) will penetrate the scar tissue. How though the scar tissue is.
If you feel the scar tissue is consistent and not hardened (tough) with the rest of your skin, any rf microneedling device will work for you. Yes RF miconeedling will work for your scars but you also need the other treatments.

Your scarring is not severe  it's quite moderate. May i ask how you got rid of your acne? by accutane?

5 hours ago, beautifulambition said:

Obi Wan is asking if you have thickening of the skin. Trying to determine the thickness or thoughness of the skin when you pinch or feel the scars to know if the spring from Infini or if your in Europe Intracel (has a stronger motor) will penetrate the scar tissue. How though the scar tissue is.
If you feel the scar tissue is consistent and not hardened (tough) with the rest of your skin, any rf microneedling device will work for you. Yes RF miconeedling will work for your scars but you also need the other treatments. 

 

I see. Well, to be honest I observed them in more details now and on some scars you can "feel the edge" more and the edge seems "more robust". When you press your finger on some of them you can feel something like very small grain (chin edge on my right cheek) but this is not so dominant. That could be thickening? I mean, as you can see on the pictures, on some area I lost significant portions of skin so the elasticity is not as healthy part of the skin. It is very hard to determine what is scar edge and what is actual tight tissue. In general when you touch my skin, I wouldnt say that scar tissue is much thicker than healthy skin, just more destroyed :)). But still, maybe I don't know what to look for.

1 hour ago, Duperele said:

Your scarring is not severe  it's quite moderate. May i ask how you got rid of your acne? by accutane?

Thank you, but I got chills when I saw the pictures I took for this thread. Picture 7 is really scary. I tried several lightning methods and at the end the simple candle light did the trick :). I didn't even see my scars in that way. I always considered them slightly worse then on first two pictures but when you see them in specific lightning you can tell that those are pretty deep. Also, I have few of them that occupy pretty big portion of my face surface. This is an issue for me.
Yes, you are right. Accutane did the trick. I tried numerous methods for many years (!) before that. Accutane was a taboo for me. Now I regret that because during the intake I tested my liver and blood regulary and not even slight parameter change were occured.

8 hours ago, arte90 said:

Seriously... !

You've tried this for 2 weeks......?
A supplement or topical that "eats" scar tissue....? 

Please come up with some really good (and i mean really good) research on this or stop feeding this nonsense to people who genuinely want to improve their scarring.

I'm not here to start a spit contest. Nor am I trying to persuade or proselytize anyone to "my way" of protocol. I believe that true happiness lies in the joy of sharing and I merely want to share with others what I'm experiencing. What more proof do I need when I can see the result right in front of my own eyes? 

By the same token, if you are content with your scars and don't mind waiting until the next scientific discovery in acne scarring is cracked, and who knows when that will be, then that is your choice. I'm not here to dissuade you. Moreover, if you think conventional treatments like laser, infini, and peels are the way to go, then by all means go at it. I am in no way discouraging anyone from getting those treatments.

But let me briefly tell you what has been happening since I started using these topicals that I've outlined in the other thread ( Wait!! Try this before you get your next treatment! ). Like many others, I too have my favorite scars. These are the go-to scars when I look in the mirror. They stick out like sore thumb. For the last 20 years, I had to live with these 4 horribe "smile lines". which are actually deep crease or wrinkles that form between two or more acne pits. With age, they've only gotten deeper. Even with a slight movement of the lip, these lines would rear their ugly heads. Well, these 4 lines have since shrunk to 3 (in two weeks!) and the remaining three lines also don't look as deep as before. That is friggin amazing--something that I can proudly brag about, might I add. LOL

Frankly, I truly believe that scars can be dissolved and if you're tired of waiting and want to try something different than conventional treatments, then I suggest you give this a try. It's worth mentioning that all of the topicals outlined are completely natural (which means no side-effects), not to mention they're very cheap compared to laser, infini, etc. (less than $100). 

* For the record, I too had 2 sessions of Infini, a round of subcision and peels. I still have scars that I want to divorce. Getting more of the same old treatments will not work IMHO.

13 hours ago, fromm said:

Hi, thank you for your advice. I noticed your topic about alternative options for treatments. Can you maybe provide any scientific studies regarding serrapeptase? I like the general idea, that it can increase healing options during the standard treatments. Can you make a distinction between Infini results vs medication intake?
Also, it would be good if you can provide more info regarding the dosage per day/intake (or even manufacturer, I don't know if forum rules allow this or is it xconsidered an advertisement?) of the products you take?

There are many scientific articles on the net regarding the efficacy of serrapeptidase. Here is one you might find useful:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095177917300242

I rolled my face with dermaroller for about 3 years. Needless to say, it's supposed to stimulate collagen. Each time I rolled, it looked great (for about a week until the swelling came down). After 3 years, I gave up. On the other hand, it's only been 2 weeks since I applied these topicals and my "smile lines" (see my post above) have noticeably diminished.

I've had a subcision and 2 Infini thus far, which yielded roughly 50% improvement. Subcision didn't do anything. The first Infini did the most heavy lifting. The second, not so much. Be that as it may, my scars are still pretty visible. Will more Infini treatment make the scars better? Probably, but not to any great extent. Am I then supposed to be content with 50% improvement? Or do I need to get others like lasers, peels, and subcision?

Per brand, this is what I'm currently using:Edit Advertising for Supplement

2 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:

Per brand, this is what I'm currently using:Edit Advertising For Supplement

Thanks! Will keep an eye on your topic on this forum. For now I planned myself a route to start (Infini + subcision) and will see how it goes from there.

Your scars are not bad enough to get depressed about them, in normal lighting you can't they do not catch ones eye . But why not improve them if you can? Go to a good suregon/dermatologist and listen to beautifulambition and others on this forum, there is surely a possibility to get about 70% improvment, (does not sound like much but it is alot).

Looking good. If there is no thickening, yes, the motor will get to its desired depth. Just noted someone doctor on Instagram comparing Intracel to a few devices- Infini still is the pick, Intracel has few advantages and disadvantages. Firstly it is insulated. Good point. It also uses 7 by 7 needles - 49 needles like Lutronic's Infini. It uses a spring solenoid, hence the kick back. I have not seen any nm comparison of spring rates, so can not comment. It goes to 2mm maximum depth. (unlike 3.5 with Infini). It has a PD or pulse duration of 90ms maximum (in Asia). The watts per pin is unknown. Of all the devices Infini, Vivace, Secret, Intensif, Intracel, I think you have selected the correct one. Remember there are so many variables with Infini (level 1-20, depth all the way to 3.5, PD or pulse duration all the way to 1000ms or 1 second ....Crazy power). When I look a the specs of laser and energy devices, the trend is underpowered to be safe, only 3 devices that I know of that are way over powered, and in the wrong hands can be dangerous- 1. Picoway (but in the skin rejuvenation the default setting is safe) 2. Lumenis Ultrapulse (Co2 with 160 watts, more like 200 watts) 3. Lutronic INFINI. I wish you well on your journey and stay positive with things.

Curious of your opinion on something. I'm a HUGE fan of finding chinese manufacturers who produce products at a far cheaper price. If you search amazon and look through the "high selling/high quality" products you can generally find the exact manufacturer that they were produced at on alibaba or something similar. I've been looking at various companies for years that produce a LOT of stuff for American hospitals, nursing homes, etc that are all on these chinese manufacturer websites. You can generally search through the sales volume and see which companies are the real deal. Credibility drives sales. Either a TON of spas/offices are making purchases or a few brokers who have done their research are making large purchases.

After some research I have found a few chinese manufacturers who are pumping out a LOT of RF microneedling devices throughout Asia and Europe. Even on here I've seen a few people post the EXACT machines that their doctors use and they are the same as the ones coming from these manufacturers. They may not be FDA approved, but could the technology be far enough along that the chinese have created something safe and reliable enough to get results?

What i'm asking is, do you think it would be too dangerous to purchase one of these machines? Everything lines up, I just think they lack a few of the bells and whistles and variables that the "best" machines have. It seems like there are universal settings that are safe.

I'll most likely will not purchase one but would love an honest opinion. Could it be possible that the average person could buy one and see results from the "guaranteed safe" settings? Or would this be an absolutely terrible idea?

Here are are a couple that had good sales. There were also a few others who had extremely good sales over the last 6 months or so as well.

Edit by MOD: Do Not Post Links to Advertising

So you want to spend $20,000 on a machine and self administer the treatment?

@thepwhispPeople die by buying drugs they think are legit from Asia as well. These machines are NOT exact copies. Safety features are often missing. Have you bought a Asia dupe cellphone lately, something is always broken. IF your will spend $3000 to $20K on various lasers and crap machines you could be treated with great improvement for a fraction of that without harming yourself worse beyond your scars.

Anything on Amazon is not a exact replica, are you a electrical engineer to certify this, if so you would know these are all lies the Chinese are experts at false advertising and copy paste.

We are not doctors and do not administer surgery procedures. I think the answer you should be looking for is how can you badly harm yourself by continuing looking for something that can hurt you as much as a scalpel (doing your own surgery). This isn't a device one just sets with basic settings, it takes a understanding of how the skin responds, surgery, emergency procedures, and the anatomy.

Your asking Obi Wan that most likely has experience in a professional setting to go against healing and helping people to give info that will harm others. He or the staff he is part of does not use un approved machines from his countries medical agencies if he helps people in a professional setting. Nobody uses these cheap or dupe machines in a professional setting nor would they, major lawsuit time (What if it f... up some one's face). I have seen Med Spa's do it in foreign countries, screw over people, and get shut down.

Your asking why do people illegally buy things and hurt themselves and others. Greed, ... I read a story of a doctor using silicone caulking from Home Depot in patients to save money. Years latter they would have permanent scars and infections and be damaged for life. Illegal medical procedures are a real thing.

This isn't a copied purse or Nike shirt which they can copy from a picture, this can seriously mess up your face. Hell I've seen doctors that screw up on this treatment often by doing set setting and not treating properly. Read Real Self reviews. Ever been to the Philippines, Thailand, or any other third world country, you have people off the street using scary devices and screw people up in spa's.

I think this is a pretty straight forward example of scars that need subcision with filler. The issue is the depth as seen in harsh light. Find a skilled operator and you will see the scars float to the surface.

It's very funny how people in this forum are against "cheap copies" and than give the advice to do medium strengt TCA peels at home on your own. Come on, are you f*ckin serious?

Did someone advice him to do a medium strength peel at home,or did someone say medium strength tca peel will help heal their condition?

No but this advice was given to me