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I read a study on TCA and microneedling where acne scars were reduced 1-2 levels down (from 4 the most severe to 0 which is porcelain skin) in only 6 months.
That's half the time of what your doctor can do for you (he said it'll take up to 12 months to see the difference). It's also cheaper and just as effective. 1-2 levels from say 4 is about 50% improvement in 6 months. Since your scars are not severe and you want to get subcision before you start with the protocol, you will probably get from level 2-3 to level 0-1 in 6 months, which is an excellent improvement.
As far as my scars they are more visible under a different kind of light or the angle you're looking at them. My doctors name is Nelson Lee Novick and he's seriously the nicest doctor and a dermatologist I've talked to... He has a busy practice in Manhattan, but found the time to speak to me on the phone for 10minutes which was my pleasure. he is also rated as the best Botox derm, so he definitely does fillers very well too. I'm just excited he performs subcision 
I read a study on TCA and microneedling where acne scars were reduced 1-2 levels down (from 4 the most severe to 0 which is porcelain skin) in only 6 months.
That's half the time of what your doctor can do for you (he said it'll take up to 12 months to see the difference). It's also cheaper and just as effective. 1-2 levels from say 4 is about 50% improvement in 6 months. Since your scars are not severe and you want to get subcision before you start with the protocol, you will probably get from level 2-3 to level 0-1 in 6 months, which is an excellent improvement.
As far as my scars they are more visible under a different kind of light or the angle you're looking at them. My doctors name is Nelson Lee Novick and he's seriously the nicest doctor and a dermatologist I've talked to... He has a busy practice in Manhattan, but found the time to speak to me on the phone for 10minutes which was my pleasure. he is also rated as the best Botox derm, so he definitely does fillers very well too. I'm just excited he performs subcision
I have a marvelous plan setup & ready to go for March. The study you were referring to is this one: HERE
My plan is to get the subcision done aggressively, then the next day do an aggressive microneedling session @ home with this device: http://shop.owndoc.com/product-info.php?Derminator-pid255.html
2 days after the needling I will start suction every day the first week then every other day the following week. I will then start alternating 15% Tca peels and microneedling sessions every 2 weeks for 6 months. (I've previously done both @ home before. But now I have a Microneedling pen which ought to target the scars more precisely.
tldr;inotherwords - I will be combining both studies for optimum results
I found this as well:
Scroll down to see his before and afters (imgur links)
Pretty stoked & excited.
I will be taking 10 days off - lol
Haha, you got me excited as well, but I kept wondering how and when you can fit this plan in your schedule without looking like a zombie. Even if you must be a little black/blue/red in public you should bear it with pride as you know it's a means to an end...
I can't wait to see your results, how you tolerate the treatment and hear any tips you have to give. Honestly, very few people on here post sensible information.
By the way, I was planning on buying the same device for my treatment and I wanted to combine the two studies as well, but didn't have a clear plan... I am sure your results will be fantastic can't wait!
Haha, you got me excited as well, but I kept wondering how and when you can fit this plan in your schedule without looking like a zombie. Even if you must be a little black/blue/red in public you should bear it with pride as you know it's a means to an end...
I can't wait to see your results, how you tolerate the treatment and hear any tips you have to give. Honestly, very few people on here post sensible information.
By the way, I was planning on buying the same device for my treatment and I wanted to combine the two studies as well, but didn't have a clear plan... I am sure your results will be fantastic
I will be taking 10 days off of work and I don't start school until Fall. So this will work out perfectly! Granted i will probably be still bruised and red from but not as much afafter the 10 days. You're a chick so you have more leverage, haha.
Hey Robertitoo,
Imagine following the protocol and then getting silicone microdroplets. I think I might do that in the future. I will try to stimulate my collagen production as much as I can with subcision (with suction), microneedling and peels, but that will only generate overall improvement for the ice pics and box scars. the silicone microdroplets will treat the rolling scars and also give a nice plump youthful look to the skin. I think the drops will be the finishing touch after one has done everything else possible to generate new collagen "naturally".
My only concern is that the skin won't react like normal skin once the silicone is in it if I want to perform any type of treatment, be it a chemical peel, microneedling, subcision, permanent and non-permanent fillers and other treatments. Since the silicone stays there forever, won't it be a problem if other skin treatments are later on performed?
If there is no risk to get other procedures after the silicone, I might just go straight to it as I am growing impatient and I don't want to be super red and disfigured 8+ times (2 from subcision, 6 from needling and more from chemical peels) in less than a year. Silicone microdroplets are just so much faster, easier, pain free and there's no downtime....
Hey Robertitoo,
Imagine following the protocol and then getting silicone microdroplets. I think I might do that in the future. I will try to stimulate my collagen production as much as I can with subcision (with suction), microneedling and peels, but that will only generate overall improvement for the ice pics and box scars. the silicone microdroplets will treat the rolling scars and also give a nice plump youthful look to the skin. I think the drops will be the finishing touch after one has done everything else possible to generate new collagen "naturally".
My only concern is that the skin won't react like normal skin once the silicone is in it if I want to perform any type of treatment, be it a chemical peel, microneedling, subcision, permanent and non-permanent fillers and other treatments. Since the silicone stays there forever, won't it be a problem if other skin treatments are later on performed?
If there is no risk to get other procedures after the silicone, I might just go straight to it as I am growing impatient and I don't want to be super red and disfigured 8+ times (2 from subcision, 6 from needling and more from chemical peels) in less than a year. Silicone microdroplets are just so much faster, easier, pain free and there's no downtime....
From my understand and from what I've seen, Subcision treats BOTH rolling & **omg rly?**yup - Box car scars effectively when having subcision unfortunately, subcision does nothing for icepicks, those are best treated with TCA cross or excision, both slowly creating collagen from under and raising the scarred tissue. In regards to subcision you will notice more obvious results if your scars are very deep. But I am 100% positive that rolling or boxcar scars you would consider shallow can still improve to where it's almost perfect or perfect (the study where the trial patients went from level 2 to 1/perfect)
If I can still do chemical peels, microneedle, red leds & have future subcision after getting silicone done, then I would consider it but only after trying loads of things, unlike most of the .org/scar users. Again, it would be my last resort. I doubt i'll ever get it anyways. I'd rather be able to needle micro needle comfortably for a long time for anti aging effects and such. I don't think you can do such after silicone...
Subcision, microneedling and tca peels will only 'disfigure you' for a couple of days. If you're a chick you can cover it up with makeup after 3 days. I'd say it worth it.
Research is important... to each their own!
Yeah, I like the anti-aging effects of microneedling as well and Id rather do that than to depend on doctors and expensive cosmetic pharmaceuticals...
Do you think one can achieve the plumped up look that silicon injections give simply by following the "2-step protocol"?
Do you have ice pick scars? I have a couple, but I'm too afraid do a ~100% TCA-cross technique on my own. I've read studies where ~60% TCA was used for ice picks but more than once and the same effects were achieved as the group treated once with ~100% TCA-cross. The patients treated with the lower percentage responded better as it was less invasive, with less downtime and the pain was more tolerable (both had topical anesthesia).
I know Ice picks should be treated first as they are thr toughest, after which one should move on to the superficial scars. So I guess if one has a combination of all scars he/she should do:
1. TCA-cross (for ice picks; very invasive)
2. Subcision (for rolling; very invasive)
3. The 2-step protocol (rolling and box scars; invasive if needling is done aggressively and the chemical peel % is high.. To be safe just follow the study)
Or are you going to skip TCA-cross?
Yeah, I like the anti-aging effects of microneedling as well and Id rather do that than to depend on doctors and expensive cosmetic pharmaceuticals...
Do you think one can achieve the plumped up look that silicon injections give simply by following the "2-step protocol"?
Do you have ice pick scars? I have a couple, but I'm too afraid do a ~100% TCA-cross technique on my own. I've read studies where ~60% TCA was used for ice picks but more than once and the same effects were achieved as the group treated once with ~100% TCA-cross. The patients treated with the lower percentage responded better as it was less invasive, with less downtime and the pain was more tolerable (both had topical anesthesia).
I know Ice picks should be treated first as they are thr toughest, after which one should move on to the superficial scars. So I guess if one has a combination of all scars he/she should do:
1. TCA-cross (for ice picks; very invasive)
2. Subcision (for rolling; very invasive)
3. The 2-step protocol (rolling and box scars; invasive if needling is done aggressively and the chemical peel % is high.. To be safe just follow the study)
Or are you going to skip TCA-cross?
The protocol, at least the one i posted and going to perform.. calls for a tca peels (alternating peels & microneedling after 1 subcision)...not cross. And no, i don't have any icepicks
there's a subcision plus tca cross study/cp out there though. what study/cp were you looking at? er '2 step protocal'
I think I have a few tiny ice picks that will definitely benefit from some dot TCA peel. I'm light so I'm not worried about hyperpigmentation.
I'll have to do subcision, TCA cross, dermastamping and an overall chemical peel.. That more like a 4 step protocol lol.
Remember you shouldn't administer that yourself. & if you're going to be suctioning, I wouldn't TCA Cross...that can aggravate the wound and cause premature peeling, thus ending up with HYPOpigmentation that DOES occur on light skinned individuals such as yourself.
If I were you i'd Subcision, Microneedle the next day, 2 days after microneedling start suctioning. If you'd like you can start alternating peels & microneedling every 2 weeks after the suctioning period..I'm now contemplating whether I should or not do the alternating. I'll have to see. I'm thinking on emailing the Drs from both studies.. One thing for sure is that suctioning is key
Why are you reconsidering alternating the peels with the microneedling?
Ill just do what you're doing and if I'm not happy with the results, I'll repeat the protocol.
I don't feel comfortable with high concentrations of TCA, even a year after Accutane.
Many repetitions of the two-step protocol should do the job.
Why are you reconsidering alternating the peels with the microneedling?
Ill just do what you're doing and if I'm not happy with the results, I'll repeat the protocol.
I don't feel comfortable with high concentrations of TCA, even a year after Accutane.
Many repetitions of the two-step protocol should do the job.
I'm afraid by doing so that I'll disrupt the collagen production from the subcision.
Then I don't know what the hell I'm doing lol
Lets just keep it simple for you. Since it will be your first treatment, take it slow (lol)
For you I suggest the following
Day one - Aggressive Subcision
Day two - Microneedling with Pen (preferred) w/ EMLA (so you can go aggressive) 1.5mm-1.75mm
Day four - 2 week suctioning (Follow protocol as much as possible)
& of course a good skin care system that doesn't break you out - hydraulic aid, moisturizer, gentle face wash and such & a healthy life style!
Give it 6 months! If you do exactly what the protocol calls for you should get very good results!
If you decide you need another treatment, hopefully not - and if so, you're scars would already have improved by a lot anyways, as a touch up (I would consider it a touch up) I suggest you **
** Do days 1-4 all over again but this time alternate Microneedling with peels every 2 weeks for 6 treatments each or 6 months ! This will be a 1 year process!
I've had scars for over 3 years, prior to last year I believe my indented scars would go away on their own. You 1? Maybe 2? You can do it
On 2/15/2015 at 4:24 PM, Robertitoo said:Looks Good
Oh, mine are from many years ago and some are newer, so i will definitely need to go with the "touch up" option.. And honestly, even when they're all gone I'll keep doing the treatments to keep my skin wrinkle-free.
Once I'm off from Accutane I'll get back to the old proven regimen of Duac during the day and Differin at night, because that's the only combo that keeps me relatively clear *sigh* .. I've tried other prescription products which didn't help or were too irritating (like the strongest % of Tazorac gel).
I'm supposed to get off from Accutane in a month or two, but I'm still breaking out so there is a chance to extend my treatment until the summer. After that I'll spend 6 months on the 2 prescription meds which are basically benzoyl peroxide/Clyndamicin combo and a topical retinoid.
I really want to go through another course of accutane though, so if the breakouts are like they used to be instead of having cute little ones I'll definitely take Accutane again which means I'll treat my scars in more than a year.
Scars are annoying and I definitely want to get rid of them, however my acne is so bad that I'm certain it will come back and ruin my plans of dermastamping, subcision and all that :<
On 2/19/2015 at 12:49 PM, ToTheMoonAndBack said:On 2/15/2015 at 4:24 PM, Robertitoo said:Looks Good
Oh, mine are from many years ago and some are newer, so i will definitely need to go with the "touch up" option.. And honestly, even when they're all gone I'll keep doing the treatments to keep my skin wrinkle-free.
Once I'm off from Accutane I'll get back to the old proven regimen of Duac during the day and Differin at night, because that's the only combo that keeps me relatively clear *sigh* .. I've tried other prescription products which didn't help or were too irritating (like the strongest % of Tazorac gel).
I'm supposed to get off from Accutane in a month or two, but I'm still breaking out so there is a chance to extend my treatment until the summer. After that I'll spend 6 months on the 2 prescription meds which are basically benzoyl peroxide/Clyndamicin combo and a topical retinoid.
I really want to go through another course of accutane though, so if the breakouts are like they used to be instead of having cute little ones I'll definitely take Accutane again which means I'll treat my scars in more than a year.
Scars are annoying and I definitely want to get rid of them, however my acne is so bad that I'm certain it will come back and ruin my plans of dermastamping, subcision and all that :<
Hey ToTheMoon - are you eating dairy at all? Have you considered a change of diet? I found that cutting out dairy and some other foods significantly reduced my breakouts. The foods are different for everyone, but I think it's well worth the try.
I had been on accutane a couple of times in my past, and while I loved how it cleared up my skin, it has left me with some permanent side effects - thinner skin, being one of them. Thinning of the skin doesn't seem like anything when you're younger (I certainly didn't think much of it then), but when you get older, the wrinkles kick in and you realise that thick skin and facial fat are actually pretty neat 
My last course of accutane was cut short because I ended up with all sorts of bad side effects. The two I was most concerned about were losing clumps of hair and an alarming reduction of memory (I'm talking alzheimers-style, couldn't remember close friends names, and would catch myself just staring at the computer screen at work for 15 minutes, not remembering if I had done anything, what I was doing prior, and what I was supposed to be doing). When I went to my doctor, he said "yes, but how do you feel about your skin?" - I'm so glad that he said that, because it made it very clear to me that doctors aren't always out for your best interest and that sometimes you need to listen to your gut and do your research. When I did more research, I found that accutane is actually a type of chemo drug. Seriously - if you don't believe me, look it up! So the side-effects aren't that surprising when you think about it. Anways, just some food for thought I know it's hard to think long term when you just want something like acne to go away (believe me, I know!).
Yeah, I think the origins of Accutane are pretty well-known.
I've experienced some temporary brain-fog for a couple of seconds when the answer was right in front of me, which was quite embarrassing, but I wasn't sure if it was Accutane, general tiredness or stress. I've noticed I am a little more sensitive, but it has sometimes been caused by the menstrual cycle. If it was something more obvious like hair loss I would have known for certain. My main problem used to be dry mouth to which I'm used to by now. However, my bones crack like crazy at every opportunity and my joints sometimes hurt. Nevertheless, I've began to workout again- no need to shelter my body.... Besides, I need the endorphins as I really don't know if I'm stressed, depressed, lazy/tired or just having a bad reaction from the meds.
I have tried different diets, but they didn't work. Maybe if I ever get sick of Accutane I'll try a different route. Until then I'll stick with the chemo to get rid of that cancer lol.... I'll get off it eventually, just not yet..
P.S. I like your ex-dermatologist
I have 2 types of milk and 3 types of cheese in the fridge, but I'll say bye-bye to them once I stop taking the med
This is the one time in my life where I don't freak out over food, I don't feel super ugly and I can try to get something done without staying at home all day feeling sorry for myself... Who knows, maybe some of us are meant to live and die young.
Yeah, I think the origins of Accutane are pretty well-known.
I've experienced some temporary brain-fog for a couple of seconds when the answer was right in front of me, which was quite embarrassing, but I wasn't sure if it was Accutane, general tiredness or stress. I've noticed I am a little more sensitive, but it has sometimes been caused by the menstrual cycle. If it was something more obvious like hair loss I would have known for certain. My main problem used to be dry mouth to which I'm used to by now. However, my bones crack like crazy at every opportunity and my joints sometimes hurt. Nevertheless, I've began to workout again- no need to shelter my body.... Besides, I need the endorphins as I really don't know if I'm stressed, depressed, lazy/tired or just having a bad reaction from the meds.
I have tried different diets, but they didn't work. Maybe if I ever get sick of Accutane I'll try a different route. Until then I'll stick with the chemo to get rid of that cancer lol.... I'll get off it eventually, just not yet..
P.S. I like your ex-dermatologist
I have 2 types of milk and 3 types of cheese in the fridge, but I'll say bye-bye to them once I stop taking the med
This is the one time in my life where I don't freak out over food, I don't feel super ugly and I can try to get something done without staying at home all day feeling sorry for myself... Who knows, maybe some of us are meant to live and die young.
Hey love, far be it from me to tell you what to do We're all trying to get to the same place on this forum, but everyone is going to take a different path. If you've found something that works for you, by all means!