Acne.org Products
These are studies not facts. Not every study is right actually many are absurdly flawed (vaccines cause autism ect.).
I think what you're trying to say is that acne is really an immune system issue. If that were the case wouldn't that spread over into other aspects of the immune system? Wouldn't acne patients be sick all the time if they were so immune impaired.
I have had acne since I was 12 which warranted Accutane at 17 and have always had a normal immune system. Even as a now ventilator dependent quadriplegic I rarely ever get sick with UTI's or upper respitory infections. Why is that?
Nothing is really a fact, but we have occam's razor for that. Acne has nothing to do with having a 'good' or 'bad' immune system. It has to do with having parts of your immune system dysregulated. And yes, sometimes you will see bleedover effects - people with acne are more likely to be diagnosed with celiac disease, IBD, and dandruff, for example. These same people might have perfectly aligned immune responses to unrelated threats - maybe they have shitty skin, but never catch a cold. Is their immune system good or bad? Neither, really. They just never learned to tolerate a particular microbe that lives on their skin because somewhere along the line, something interfered with the development of a normal immune response to that one microbe.
if acne is indicator of health problems and my only health problem is acne then does that means its indicating itself?why yea i do feel like a pest nd warding ppl off is my speciality but acne itself isnt even infectous right? altho its said after u picked pimple dont rub it or else it will spread so by that logic i could get stuff outta my pimple nd smear it on other ppl face nd infect them with acne??idk what propagative nd homogenous means, translator doesnt have those so i got u just approx...and if we have messed up immune system wouldnt we get flu/fever more oftenly too?so inflammation is basically body dealing with infection but where is it getting infected from?and acne contains that white crap in it, wheres sebum, oil and those bacteriaso p.acnes thing. where do they come from so continuously? body wouldnt generate somikinda unneeded bacteria itself only to try toget rid of it next, would it?
Acne itself is not a health problem, and yeah it's not infectious. Rather it is an indicator of a dysregulated immune system - which itself could indicate some sort of correlated/coexisting problem. In our modern age we induce acne by means that probably do not lead to correlated health problems, though; my explanation of acne as a tool to ward people off was intended to describe the circumstances under which acne as a mechanism of self defense probably evolved.
The immune system can be messed up in very specific ways. People with celiac - an immunological condition that causes pain when they eat wheat - do not get the flu more often. The rest of their immune systems are fine. It's just that one response that is messed up. A similar (but broader) thing is probably happening in acne.
The inflammation we see in acne is the body responding to something it shouldn't. Lots of bacteria live on our skin. Our immune systems tolerate these microbes, and allow them to live peacefully. In the case of acne, our immune systems are, for some reason or another, not tolerating these microbes, and instead are seeking to destroy them. Thus, acne. Of course, our immune systems can never kill all the bacteria. They are all around us, all over our skin, and buried beneath layers of our skin too, living in our pores. And so the acne persists. Of course, the bacteria are only one possible culprit. Food antigens could very similarly cause the same exact response.
She thinks that oranges cause acne.
No. I know that oranges cause me to break out in cysts. And several other people have found the same. Citrus intolerance is quite common. And I have frequently commented that I don't consider it to be true acne.
Do you ever make a valid comment? Seriously.
Why does your diet make you such an unhappy person?
See. Another invalid comment.
if acne is indicator of health problems and my only health problem is acne then does that means its indicating itself?why yea i do feel like a pest nd warding ppl off is my speciality but acne itself isnt even infectous right? altho its said after u picked pimple dont rub it or else it will spread so by that logic i could get stuff outta my pimple nd smear it on other ppl face nd infect them with acne??idk what propagative nd homogenous means, translator doesnt have those so i got u just approx...and if we have messed up immune system wouldnt we get flu/fever more oftenly too?so inflammation is basically body dealing with infection but where is it getting infected from?and acne contains that white crap in it, wheres sebum, oil and those bacteriaso p.acnes thing. where do they come from so continuously? body wouldnt generate somikinda unneeded bacteria itself only to try toget rid of it next, would it?Acne itself is not a health problem, and yeah it's not infectious. Rather it is an indicator of a dysregulated immune system - which itself could indicate some sort of correlated/coexisting problem. In our modern age we induce acne by means that probably do not lead to correlated health problems, though; my explanation of acne as a tool to ward people off was intended to describe the circumstances under which acne as a mechanism of self defense probably evolved.
The immune system can be messed up in very specific ways. People with celiac - an immunological condition that causes pain when they eat wheat - do not get the flu more often. The rest of their immune systems are fine. It's just that one response that is messed up. A similar (but broader) thing is probably happening in acne.
The inflammation we see in acne is the body responding to something it shouldn't. Lots of bacteria live on our skin. Our immune systems tolerate these microbes, and allow them to live peacefully. In the case of acne, our immune systems are, for some reason or another, not tolerating these microbes, and instead are seeking to destroy them. Thus, acne. Of course, our immune systems can never kill all the bacteria. They are all around us, all over our skin, and buried beneath layers of our skin too, living in our pores. And so the acne persists. Of course, the bacteria are only one possible culprit. Food antigens could very similarly cause the same exact response.
Actually from what I've read over the years is that sebaceous glands are not good at holding on to bacteria which means bacteria plays little role in acne.
The body can just have an inflammatory response to hormones its self which is why acne tends to get worse around a woman's menstrual cycle (always did with mine).
I also don't know where the heck you get the idea that acne is meant to stop people from reproducing? What the heck? There are loads of people with acne that marry and have children. People really don't care that much.
Actually from what I've read over the years is that sebaceous glands are not good at holding on to bacteria which means bacteria plays little role in acne.
The body can just have an inflammatory response to hormones its self which is why acne tends to get worse around a woman's menstrual cycle (always did with mine).
I also don't know where the heck you get the idea that acne is meant to stop people from reproducing? What the heck? There are loads of people with acne that marry and have children. People really don't care that much.
I was speaking from a purely evolutionary standpoint. People didn't get married during the vast majority of our evolution. As for hormones, it's true that they play a role, but that role is not causative. Everyone's hormones change at puberty, yet not everyone gets acne. Males get acne, and males do not have a menstrual cycle.
It is true that the microcomedone forms before colonization of the lesion with bacteria. However, that does not mean that bacteria are not involved; bacteria; antigens released by these bacteria onto the general skin environment can provoke an immune response that eventually leads to bacteria-infiltrated lesions.
Actually from what I've read over the years is that sebaceous glands are not good at holding on to bacteria which means bacteria plays little role in acne.
The body can just have an inflammatory response to hormones its self which is why acne tends to get worse around a woman's menstrual cycle (always did with mine).
I also don't know where the heck you get the idea that acne is meant to stop people from reproducing? What the heck? There are loads of people with acne that marry and have children. People really don't care that much.
I was speaking from a purely evolutionary standpoint. People didn't get married during the vast majority of our evolution. As for hormones, it's true that they play a role, but that role is not causative. Everyone's hormones change at puberty, yet not everyone gets acne. Males get acne, and males do not have a menstrual cycle.
It is true that the microcomedone forms before colonization of the lesion with bacteria. However, that does not mean that bacteria are not involved; bacteria; antigens released by these bacteria onto the general skin environment can provoke an immune response that eventually leads to bacteria-infiltrated lesions.
The people not getting acne at puberty may not be producing as much oil as someone who does and I bet their skin isn't as easily prone to be clogged either .
Could perhaps, maybe, it be different for everyone? Some people have hormonal acne, other's have diet related, and then others maybe it has to do with their immune systems? Have you ever noticed sometime identical twins don't always both have acne?
From what I know there are really no special types of acne. It's all influenced by hormones and genes and to a lesser extent environment. Everyone who gets acne carries acne genes that makes them prone to this condition.
I dont know how that's not obvious by now?
Could perhaps, maybe, it be different for everyone? Some people have hormonal acne, other's have diet related, and then others maybe it has to do with their immune systems? Have you ever noticed sometime identical twins don't always both have acne?
From what I know there are really no special types of acne. It's all influenced by hormones and genes and to a lesser extent environment. Everyone who gets acne carries acne genes that makes them prone to this condition.
I dont know how that's not obvious by now?
From what you know? That says a lot? If you choose to believe that, that is totally fine. A lot of people are really in tune with their bodies and know exactly what foods effect them. Doctors tend to want people to take meds for things rather than fix them them through their diet. They wouldn't make any money if people were fiixing everything through diet. And how THAT that is not obvious by now I do not know. But all in all I don't really care. It's probably better most people try to fix their crappy diets anyway.
Think about that for a minute. The acne is caused by diet claims are ludicrous. Acne is a hormonal disease with a strong genetic link (bad acne tends to run in families).
Stop with the conspiracies.
Because at and after puberty the sebaceous glands are activated, and readily affected by the on going hormonal changes within the body.Hormones are greatly affected and often are a teeter totter during these years which indirectly increase acne.
No conspiracies here. Diet at the teenage and adult level does effect acne. To what degree is the genetic factor.
Could perhaps, maybe, it be different for everyone? Some people have hormonal acne, other's have diet related, and then others maybe it has to do with their immune systems? Have you ever noticed sometime identical twins don't always both have acne?
From what I know there are really no special types of acne. It's all influenced by hormones and genes and to a lesser extent environment. Everyone who gets acne carries acne genes that makes them prone to this condition.
I dont know how that's not obvious by now?
From what you know? That says a lot? If you choose to believe that, that is totally fine. A lot of people are really in tune with their bodies and know exactly what foods effect them. Doctors tend to want people to take meds for things rather than fix them them through their diet. They wouldn't make any money if people were fiixing everything through diet. And how THAT that is not obvious by now I do not know. But all in all I don't really care. It's probably better most people try to fix their crappy diets anyway.
I think you have some crazy thinking on your doctor belief.
If you go to the doc for acne they will do as conventional medicine in med school has taught them. This is prescribing medication. While diet, exercise, genetics and other factors play a role in acne, none of this is directly proven consistently to the point it has made its way into teaching and textbooks. I wish to fix people as much as the next nurse or doctor. I want people not to be ill or suffer from acne, but simply telling everyone "fix your diet" will not work. Again we argue genetics, allergies, independent variables such as exercise, and activity level, age,gender, cost of "better" food. It doesn't all work as well clinically on a large scale as antibiotics or other drugs do.
Even then, how would you feel if the $100 doctor visit resulted in a prescription that read "exercise and eat right" I'm sure you would flip $%^&
People come to doctors to "get something." A long tradition that still continues.
The thing with healthcare or hospitals or doctors or even me as a nurse: without sick people there is no business therefore no job. It is not true that if they didn't prescribe they would have no job. Its the pharmacies that need them too otherwise they make no money.
Could perhaps, maybe, it be different for everyone? Some people have hormonal acne, other's have diet related, and then others maybe it has to do with their immune systems? Have you ever noticed sometime identical twins don't always both have acne?
From what I know there are really no special types of acne. It's all influenced by hormones and genes and to a lesser extent environment. Everyone who gets acne carries acne genes that makes them prone to this condition.
I dont know how that's not obvious by now?
It is all influenced by hormones and reminds me of when babies are born with acne. Its because of the hormones from the mother. While i have heard of babies on formula also getting acne. So diet + effective of nutrition too.
This could go on for years man.
I am enjoying reading everyone's input on the subject. In my opinion diet CAN affect acne simply because certain foods affect our hormones which MAY result in acne. I read a statement about how an increased level of insulin actually increases the amount of Androgens in our body (male hormones). Androgens in themselves can aggravate acne, specifically if someone if already sensitive to it.
Diet can affect acne. But if one gets acne as soon as they hit puperty (like Myself and many others) then perhaps acne for those individuals are predominantly caused by hormonal factors...I had a shit diet at that age but as SOON as I hit puberty ny acne arose. I also know that if I eat crap now..like a lot, I will break out.
But I think some people can go mad with food elimination diets in the hope of finding the 'cure'. I agree that there are alot of random food 'cures' on this forum which some hopless people read and believe to find only that it DOES NOT work for them and they get stressed out and upset...stress itself is a known factor to contribute to acne.
Why can't we just agree to disagree and do what works for us believing that acne is highly individual - which it is. Like what has been said, MANY factors are associated with acne.
I think you have some crazy thinking on your doctor belief.
If you go to the doc for acne they will do as conventional medicine in med school has taught them. This is prescribing medication. While diet, exercise, genetics and other factors play a role in acne, none of this is directly proven consistently to the point it has made its way into teaching and textbooks. I wish to fix people as much as the next nurse or doctor. I want people not to be ill or suffer from acne, but simply telling everyone "fix your diet" will not work. Again we argue genetics, allergies, independent variables such as exercise, and activity level, age,gender, cost of "better" food. It doesn't all work as well clinically on a large scale as antibiotics or other drugs do.
Even then, how would you feel if the $100 doctor visit resulted in a prescription that read "exercise and eat right" I'm sure you would flip $%^&
People come to doctors to "get something." A long tradition that still continues.
1) No I wouldn't flip $%^&. I would love it. As would many people here whose complained that a visit do a doctor means an argument about not wanting to take some drug they insist you must have. They don't like to be questioned.
2) is that their excuse for over dosing the population, especially the elderly? And their excuse for handing out antibiotics for people seeing them for the flu?
No one thinks they don't want to help people. We think they don't know how. Because they have been indoctrinated into a bad system.
Think about that for a minute. The acne is caused by diet claims are ludicrous. Acne is a hormonal disease with a strong genetic link (bad acne tends to run in families).
Stop with the conspiracies.
BTW. Acne doesn't only start in puberty so the very premise of this thread is faulty just like everything else you've posted in it.
Many get acne for the first time as adults. And while rare, small children and infants get it. It's called infantile acne and not a new thing.
On the other hand. it's now not uncommon for 7 year olds to get acne. And that is a brand new thing and the result of our deteriorating condition.
I think you have some crazy thinking on your doctor belief.
If you go to the doc for acne they will do as conventional medicine in med school has taught them. This is prescribing medication. While diet, exercise, genetics and other factors play a role in acne, none of this is directly proven consistently to the point it has made its way into teaching and textbooks. I wish to fix people as much as the next nurse or doctor. I want people not to be ill or suffer from acne, but simply telling everyone "fix your diet" will not work. Again we argue genetics, allergies, independent variables such as exercise, and activity level, age,gender, cost of "better" food. It doesn't all work as well clinically on a large scale as antibiotics or other drugs do.
Even then, how would you feel if the $100 doctor visit resulted in a prescription that read "exercise and eat right" I'm sure you would flip $%^&
People come to doctors to "get something." A long tradition that still continues.
1) No I wouldn't flip $%^&. I would love it. As would many people here whose complained that a visit do a doctor means an argument about not wanting to take some drug they insist you must have. They don't like to be questioned.
2) is that their excuse for over dosing the population, especially the elderly? And their excuse for handing out antibiotics for people seeing them for the flu?
No one thinks they don't want to help people. We think they don't know how. Because they have been indoctrinated into a bad system
I wrote a whole response to this however it was lost to accidental refresh. But regardless of what many thing as well as the fact that the blame generally falls on this system. IT is multifold between expectations, tradition, and society believes versus practice, the fact that this is a sue happy society which results in a lot of CYA, the lack of a concrete, predictable nature of acne per each individual or a majority that results in a prescribed treatment that can be wrote into a textbook and instructed to future doctors. The system will not change and will only evolve. One cannot place full blame on just one piece of the machine nowadays.
But do remember that you do have a choice. hell, when i walk in i say what i want, reasonably But do not expect them to know or even give you the answer you want. It is and isn't their fault as described above.
Well, i'm glad you wouldn't mind. Im sure someone with no insurance would just love to pay that doctor bill after knowing that they can't afford to watch their diet because that system too is FUBAR (healthy food more expensive then cheaper less nutritious food). Not to mention they could have done their own google search to find that out. Even if it was part of conventional teaching, still walking out with "diet first" "come back in 6 weeks before i start medication" Is more expensive.Personally I would see it as a slap in the face. I don't go into their office for that, which supports the value of "walking out with something" other than advice. And around and round it goes..
Discussing this will change nothing. Just be an educated consumer, but don't expect sunshine and rainbows.
Well, i'm glad you wouldn't mind. Im sure someone with no insurance would just love to pay that doctor bill after knowing that they can't afford to watch their diet because that system too is FUBAR (healthy food more expensive then cheaper less nutritious food). Not to mention they could have done their own google search to find that out. Even if it was part of conventional teaching, still walking out with "diet first" "come back in 6 weeks before i start medication" Is more expensive.Personally I would see it as a slap in the face. I don't go into their office for that, which supports the value of "walking out with something" other than advice. And around and round it goes..
Those are just more things wrong with the system and our society & form of economy. It is a disaster. Starting with the fact that real food shouldn't be so hard to obtain, (which is why I'm working on improving access to food and a cooperative economy). And it should not cost $100 to talk to a doctor.
I would have thought as a medical professional you would value a doctor's advice over their ability to just prescribe drugs. I would value their advice if they had any worthwhile advice to give, but that has not been my experience. So as it is, they are only good in an emergency or for diagnostics.
Just get an MRT test for food sensitivities and your acne will be on its way to be cured
Well, any acne that occurs as a result of a food sensitivity at least.
I don't think the problem is always about what we DO eat, it's often what we don't. Deficiencies rather than intolerance's. Our bodies need specific nutrition to function and develop properly.
I've always had conflicted opinions on this subject, but if you think about it, it all makes sense. Not just in the case of acne, but all diseases. If we don't give our bodies the tools to fight it, it's going to continue to manifest.
I don't think the problem is always about what we DO eat, it's often what we don't. Deficiencies rather than intolerance's. Our bodies need specific nutrition to function and develop properly.
I've always had conflicted opinions on this subject, but if you think about it, it all makes sense. Not just in the case of acne, but all diseases. If we don't give our bodies the tools to fight it, it's going to continue to manifest.
Yes. And isn't it ridiculous to think otherwise? To believe the things you do or don't do to your body doesn't affect your body and every process going on inside?
I strongly believe food is the direct cause of adult acne. My opinion, of course.
I have personally seen acne disappear from two friends when they changed their eating habits.
The evidence is too strong (if you look for it) to disregard food as being the cause of acne. Explain how some cultures, for hundreds of years, have not had a single pimple, but when they started eating more of the western diet, acne started appearing in these cultures.
Western diet has destroyed many lives in my opinion.
Everything affects hormonal changes. All of the communication between our body cells is initiated by some type of hormone. Emotions themselves are a calvacade of hormonal signals and so is hunger itself, and digestion. So yes, all acne is in this way hormonal, and in this way all food (and other environmental factors as stated by Quetzcoatl above) influences hormones.
If dietary change didn't make a difference in acne, why do so many chronic acne sufferers, myself included, find success changing their diet? Why do we so rarely, before the agricultural revolution, read about people with acne?
I quoted this from
"The Acid Mantle, Age and the importance of the skin's pH
This slightly acidic layer, also referred to as the aoeAcid Mantlea, is our bodyas first defence mechanism against bacteria invading it and is not a favourable environment bacterial growth to occur. This defence layer develops at puberty, which is why children are more susceptible to disease, viruses and fungal infections such are ringworm. The pH of childrenas skin is closer to neutral (pH 7).
At puberty, however, we start to produce more hair on our bodies. Hair follicles have an associated sebaceous gland or glands which become active as hair growth increases, causing changes in the skinas pH. The hormones that control sweat also become active and the whole surface of a teenageras skin is totally different to that of a young child. This is our bodyas way to increase our defence system.
The pH of normal, healthy human skin is somewhere between 4.5 and 6. However, this varies with age. Typically, newborns have a pH closer to neutral (pH 7) that quickly turns acidic in order to protect young childrenas skin.
In the late teens to early 20as, our Acid Mantle is well developed and provides good protection against potentially harmful, external environmental factors. Our skin usually looks healthy, heals quickly when injured and seems to take care of itself.
With increasing age however, the skinas pH becomes more and more neutral, and thus more susceptible to bacterial growth. This reduced acidity kills fewer bacteria than before, leaving the skin susceptible to bacterial growth and infections. The skin weakens as a result and begins developing problems with increasing age. (Interestingly, the pH value rises beyond 6 when a person actually suffers from a skin problem or skin disease.)
The aging process of the skin causes biochemical changes in collagen and elastin, the connective tissues underlying the skin, which give the skin its firmness (collagen) and elasticity (elastin). The rates of loss of skin firmness and elasticity differs from individual to individual, depending on their genetic makeup, general health, over exposure to the sun, skin care regime, or lack there of, and other factors.
As the skin becomes less elastic, it also becomes drier; the underlying fatty tissue begins to disappear resulting in the skin beginning to sag. Our skin is less supple, and wrinkles begin to form. At this stage, our skin is more easily injured, heals more slowly and tends to dry out more quickly."
And also this well researched post, on insulin and puberty"
I don't know why I'm answering another one of these stupid posts that are made about five times a year but, here I go.
It doesn't cause acne, it affects neatly all of the factors that lead to acne. You'll find plenty of details on that if you were here to read, learn and discuss, rather than to troll.
It also affects your puberty. How traumatic/dramatic the changes are, how early it happens, etc.
I am shocked to a post like this from you.
You typically write good posts, back up with research and help others.
Why are you shooting this girl down?
I understand the frustration, 98% of the stuff i read in this thread is complete bullshit with no solid evidence to back it up. Due to this, i stay away from this thread a lot now and simply do not respond when i see a stupid post.
If you don't like a post that much then do not respond to it. Not having a go, just a suggestion.
I don't know why I'm answering another one of these stupid posts that are made about five times a year but, here I go.
It doesn't cause acne, it affects neatly all of the factors that lead to acne. You'll find plenty of details on that if you were here to read, learn and discuss, rather than to troll.
It also affects your puberty. How traumatic/dramatic the changes are, how early it happens, etc.
Wow I asked a simple question and you're giving me an overly hostile response which is honestly unneeded. You don't know what trolling is, if you want trolling head over to a gaming forum. Debating the accusation that acne is induced (in a certain degree) is not trolling.
I have eaten a healthy diet literally my entire life and have not had any improvement in regards to my skin. The only thing that worked for me for a while was Accutane and then I experienced a relapse. It's not like I'm having my face stuffed with junk food- believe me I have tried to control my acne with diet and it never proved successful.
>food can mess with your hormones which can cause acne = milk , meat
otherwise why would millions on people who cured there acne write and make a video about it ? screw the derm , the derm doesnt know anything besides tell you basic things and making you waste money
No one has ever "cured" their acne (acne doesn't have a cure, not even Accutane) and if they have found a way to *manage it * through lifestyle it's certainly not in the millions. I don't pay any money to see a derm, it's free. What are you talking about?
okay what i meant was keep it under control so much your face is cleared
some derm cost money just to see , yours probably dont then
The other thing that really gets me about this entire part of forum,
People giving out advice about hormones when they have no clue what they are talking about.
Endocrinologists will be the first to say they are just scratching the service when it comes to hormones. So if the leaders of research are saying this then who is anyone else to comment about insulin sensitivity, leptin, ghrelin or whatever other hormone you want to talk about?
I'm a nutritionist. This would be like me giving nutrition advice to a cancer victim. Only an oncologist would be in a position to comment.
People need to get real and stop talking about a subject they clearly know nothing about.
There are like 10 thousand processes going on in the body at anyone time, we can control like 12 of them.
If you don't like a post that much then do not respond to it. Not having a go, just a suggestion.
You are right, I should not respond to trolls. Which is why I added that first part. Because I knew I shouldn't be responding to the troll.
The other thing that really gets me about this entire part of forum,
People giving out advice about hormones when they have no clue what they are talking about.
Endocrinologists will be the first to say they are just scratching the service when it comes to hormones. So if the leaders of research are saying this then who is anyone else to comment about insulin sensitivity, leptin, ghrelin or whatever other hormone you want to talk about?
I'm a nutritionist. This would be like me giving nutrition advice to a cancer victim. Only an oncologist would be in a position to comment.
People need to get real and stop talking about a subject they clearly know nothing about.
There are like 10 thousand processes going on in the body at anyone time, we can control like 12 of them.
That makes no sense. A cancer patient absolutely needs good nutrition advice. An oncologist only poisons them. Sugar/high glycemic diets feed cancer tumors. Nutrients and other habits help the body defeat them.
And this belief isolating issues rather than using an integrative approach is at the root of problem with our health care system.