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Yes I have sebaceous filaments but they are only noticable in my 10x mirror and are light tan in color. I don't have blackheads --- which may be due to getting monthly microdermabrasions at my derm's office. But I never really got that many anyway. My acne problem was deep painful infected cysts and whiteheads on my nose, in addition to rosacea flare-ups on my cheeks. All of that is gone now except for occasional small flat pink spots on my cheek from rosacea...due to stress from traveling, not being able to stick to my diet, etc. They fade away quickly within hours or a day. I don't think there's anything to do about them more than I'm doing since rosacea is triggered by weather, sun, stress and things beyond diet. And I already take the 40mg Doxy (anti-inflammatory...not antibiotic dose) for it. They don't happen too often. The diet I'm on has helped though as excess oily skin seemed to make them more frequent.
I think it takes at least a month or two to reap rewards from this diet...although I saw results within 2 weeks. The reason why is pores take awhile to get clogged up and so you have a residue of junk to expel while your skin is changing to being less oily. As the residual acne resolves itself the skin becomes clearer. But it takes a bit of time. This is where some topicals can help the process along and I'm sure my regime below helped the process go more quickly. I know there are some people on this site who are purists and think that if you doing any mainstream meds along with diet that it doesn't count...but I disagree. For those of us with chronic serious acne, it would be too awful to go off the meds while experimenting with a diet. Actually I did that two years ago...my old derm wanted to see what would happen. OMG --- what a mess. My skin returned to hell in about 3 months...deep infected cysts, inflammation. Horrible. My current derm immediately put me back on the meds and added monthly microderms, BP cleanser and topical Cleocin-T antibiotic. To really test this diet I want to eventually try weaning off spironolactone and the anti-inflammatory dose of doxy (40mg). But he doesn't want me to right now. He wants my skin to be "normal" for awhile before changing anything.
However on this diet, what is amazing to me is how my whole body seems to be doing so much better. Besides clearer skin, my complexion is a healthy peachy color and I don't have an oily sheen anymore...just a dewy complexion. My digestion has improved dramatically and I have tons more energy. I think all that oil and margarine I was eating before must have been clogging up my system somehow...not sure how but I can see the difference.
Because I'm avoiding oils, I find I eat much more food overall...and that means more vegies. This is probably a key to the improved health. I eat a ton of cooked and raw vegies, often two potatoes, more interesting things for breakfast like potatoes and kale with a poached egg, etc.
I have lost weight avoiding oils and am at a very trim 120 lbs for my 5'4" frame. I don't want to lose more weight and so am really packing on the food...which my body seems to love! Also I don't eat sugary foods so that also leads to weight loss. A typical dinner for me is a HUGE salad with raw vegies, 4 red potatoes, small portion of salmon or turkey, and a BIG helping of broccoli steamed with garlic and mushrooms. As you can see, I am not depriving myself. Lunch is usually leftovers with rice.
My skin continues to do well. I've gotten a whitehead here or there but they go away in a day. Even my rosacea is better. I can get a small red patch on my cheek but it goes pale in a day versus a week like before. I go in for my monthly microdermabrasion tomorrow and will see what they say. I'm keeping to the diet --- only a teeny bit of olive oil if sauteing something. At first I really missed margarine and oils but now I don't...don't even think about it. This has really made a difference! Since I've never ever had it, I'm wondering what "normal" skin is like...but I'm thinking I'm pretty close to it.
Another thing that is new is something I've seen in people with normal skin...they might get a tiny red thing but it usually goes away in several hours or by the next day. I've alway envied those people because if I got a tiny red thing I could count on it growing and growing and in several days becoming an angry tender infected cyst. But now I too can get a tiny red thing that goes away rather quickly without developing into something else...amazing! And that's never happened before...ever...even when on treatment regimes. I might have less cysts, etc. but something red would always get bigger and infected.
It was the dread of what my skin was doing or about to do that really messed me up emotionally. Now that my skin is doing better I still grapple with the emotional parts but I'm sure I'll get over that eventually. I've had acne a very long long time so naturally it'll take time to get over it. I'm just hoping everything I'm doing continues to work!! In the past, treatments would work for a month or so and then stop working and that messed me up big time --- the disappointment over and over. I've read that same dread and disappointment in many posts on this site...people becoming so disappointed after such great hopes.
I'm becoming more and more confirmed that strictly limiting oils, along with avoiding dairy, sugars and refined foods, is a major key to clear skin.
I'm thinking of avoiding fish oil for awhile and see what that does. I continue to get a whitehead here and there and some inflammation. Basically nothing as compared with before. I've been reading how fish oil is not good for all people and will post on that. It seems to upset my stomach even when I use the high end ones. And I eat tons of salmon anyway. In addition research has come out indicating that vitamin D3 may be a factor in rosacea...and many if not most people with adult acne have some of the P&P kind of rosacea happening. I'll avoid that too and post about it.
I loved fish oil for for anti-inflammatory effects while running my knees felt 10x better when i took it. However, I developed a sort of delayed allergic reaction from it. I assume it was either the processing methods or that my body just didn't like cod any more. I stopped taking it for awhile. I ordered a lesser dosage same company (swansons) and started breaking out. So there went that and my running slowly declined.
My cousin was on fish oil as well then all of a sudden had terrible cystic acne out of no where. She stopped it and it calmed down. So i would like to see your response on this. Sounds similar to me and her.
Sadly when i tried to eat healthier, but then when i was unable to for like 2 days because of travel and such I would (my body) response terribly. Break outs and such. So i slowly gave up my crusade and then became one of those drenched in butter eaters..but i do not breakout like i used to. Still not healthy. Just can't afford now to change back to healthier eating at this point.
i think carnivors have their stomach working for 3 hours a day, while herbivors' stomach is made to work ALL THE TIME. if you want to replace a chicken soup with a vegetable salad, then make sure it's "a whole table size" salad.
i wanted to mention that no animal fat for 3 years made me lose 30kg, but from 95kg to 65kg, and i'm 186cm tall. also in the last year i started eating more and more meat but that doesn't put fat on, you (i) have to lift some weights and eat more meat to not get scared when i measure my weight again.
in my opinion, acne has nothing to do with unhealthy diet. i'm using foods for their anti-androgen effect not because they'r healthy nowadays.
i'll try to get serious on this route, with saw palmetto&co.
Amazing...went on week long trip to AZ and was clear the whole time!!!! Did my best to avoid oils, although there were times people sauteed in more EVO than I would use. Also followed my usual diet avoiding sugars, caffeine, alcohol, etc. and my skin did great. Normally even on the meds below, I'd breakout on such a stressful trip. It seems Dr McDougall was right...give the diet of avoiding oils at least 2 months while your sebum gradually changes to less sticky and new acne can't form. Also stopped fish oil supplements and I think that has helped too. I'm eating lots of chia and salmon instead.
Just thought I'd give an update on my progress. It's now been several months since starting this diet and I have to say that it is the best diet I've ever done for keeping clear. I'm still doing meds but as I've stated before...using only meds never kept me clear. Adding the diet is what finally cleared me up. And I am staying clear. My whole skin is doing better. Since avoiding fish oil I also have noted that my skin is less irritated and plugged up. So at least for me avoiding ALL oils except for a teeny amount of EVO in cooking has done the trick.
I wish I could shout out this info to everyone. Avoiding all oils may be what finally gets you clear. Yes, it is hard to do at first because our culture is so steeped in drenching everything in oil. But once you make the switch you will feel so much better. I read that oils, especially the ones in use now, actually dampen the immune system. Our bodies were not made to consume oils like this. Instead we were made to get our oils from oily fish and eating fowl, etc. And historically (in BC times) we added small amounts of EVO. EVO is one of the only oils still made in the way our ancestors ate. Because it is a whole food our bodies can use it well and not get inflammed. Solvent made oils cause inflammation (read research on the net).
Avoiding dairy is essential...as well as avoiding sugars. Avoiding dairy has to do with how acne sufferers are sensitive to hormones and do better avoiding foods with naturally occurring and added hormones. Avoiding sugars has to do with eating more like our ancestors and cultures that typically do not get acne. They eat whole foods that digest slowly and so insulin levels stay balanced.
If you are genetically prone to acne and want to get clear avoid the typical western diet full of sugar, fats, caffeine, etc. It's that simple. I did this over the years but never really avoiding fats. It wasn't until I read the research on cultures without acne that I realized the connection of fats to acne.
Now my skin is totally different due to avoiding fats. I wish I had a photo showing before and after!!! But I avoided all photos when I was breaking out.
Hello,
Thank you for this inspiring topic, I think I'm going to try this next as my gluten-free probiotic-full diet doesn't seem really promising for now
I'd like your opinion about something though, if would be so kind as to help me out, that would be fantastic.
If I can't eat lots of fruits (fructose/sugar), can't eat lots of grains (hard to digest, anti-nutriments), can't eat lots of meat (I've heard it's bad in large quantities, can't remember why though) : What can I eat a lot of that is relatively easy to prepare and not too expensive? Carrots? Salad? Cabbage? That's it? Any more ideas?
My reasoning behind this is: If I can't have a fair amount of staple items in a diet, I will most likely fail. And considering I'm underweight, I need to be able to eat a good amount of it (I know eating lots of different things is better, but that sounds really hard and complicated with a restrictive diet)
A bit off-topic: would you recommend using BP alongside this diet to get rid of pimples that tend to stay there for months and make it hard to see if the diet is working?
Thanks a lot! (:
I've never thought of this diet as being a sole remedy for acne. It may control acne for some people by itself but for other people like me, doing this diet IN ADDITION to the meds is what finally got me clear. However I do plan next year to try weaning off oral meds to see if I can stay clear on the diet and only using topical meds.
My digestion before starting this diet was not good. I had trouble with loose bowels (sorry) and lots of gas...my food was not digesting. This got really bad a couple of years ago and my doctor had me do allergy, gluten and fructose testing. I was put on a diet that restricted dairy, wheat, and sugars. I followed the diet faithfully and it also seemed to help my skin. Then I was tested again this year and it showed that I was no longer sensitive to wheat but still had problems with dairy and fructose. Interestingly this is often what other chronic acne sufferers also have problems with. Wheat is okay for me but sparingly and not everyday. I am not gluten sensitive...just seem to have a bit of a sensitivity to wheat. So I eat oats, rice and spelt. I try not to eat flour products too much because they are not as good for you as eating whole foods such as oats and rice. I learned that if you have digestive problems it is best to stick with whole foods as much as possible. You can eat potatoes (...they are a good food despite all the bad press on them...), yams and other starchy root vegetables such as parsnips. These foods are very common to cultures that do not get acne.
If you are sensitive to fructose you can usually eat berries and banana. I eat blueberries, strawberries, and blackberries everyday and bananas every other day or so.
If you are sensitive to grains then eat lots of root vegetables such as potatoes. If you eat red potatoes with their skins they are quite nutritious. Also rice is often good for people who are sensitive to other grains. Interestingly I can eat white rice but not brown rice. Brown rice does not digest for me due to the fructans but white rice is fine...and this goes along with Asian cultures that figured this out long ago...they have eaten white rice for centuries --- along with lots of greens for fiber.
I too am lower weight and can't afford to lose any weight so I fill up on homemade soups, root vegetables, eggs, and small amounts of wild fowl and fish...which is just like primitive cultures eat. I make big pots of soup...actually more like stews...by combining garlic, leeks, potatoes, yams, zucchini, beans, mushrooms and whatever other vegetables I have on hand. Simmer for an hour or two and voila you have dinner for a couple of nights and also topping for rice.
I continue to be amazed by how well I'm doing on this diet. My skin has stayed clear except for two days following a holiday trip to relatives where there was literally nothing to eat (only sugary foods or junk foods) and I got tired of fixing my own meals --- constantly dealing with questions of why I was eating rice, etc. Even then the flare-up was very minor...only couple of small red spots that went away very quickly - day or two at most. I had eaten sourdough bread and vegetables that were doused in some kind of sauce despite my trying to get them without. Because I'm so diligent about my diet I can easily determine what my triggers are. The flare-up occurred the day after eating that food.
Yesterday I was at a potluck and there was nothing to eat except for a huge salad I brought...literally nothing. All the food was smothered in cheese or oils and much of it looked like prepackaged junk food. There was nothing fresh except my salad. I wasn't prepared for that and was starved so caved in and ate some homemade garlic frenchbread. Today I have 1 tiny red spot that is fading now that I'm back on my diet.
This is so interesting to me! That the reaction could be so quick. When I follow my diet my skin is clear. Who knows what the triggers were (high glycemic white bread? butter? yeast?) But now I know without a shadow of a doubt that eventhough I may not be gluten sensitive I react to something in wheat, especially in the form of bread...and also to the butter since it is dairy and dairy always causes problems for me.
I can eat non-yeast brown rice flour foods like homemade waffles...and the same goes for spelt flour (homemade nonfat cornbread made with stoneground whole corn)...no problem. I just can't eat it everyday. As a treat once in awhile a brown rice waffle topped with fresh blueberries and sliced strawberries is divine!
It's a shame you can never eat normally again and have to constantly worry about what you eat. The diet approach just isn't for me. If I have to stick to a diet to get clear skin then it's really not a solution. Dieting for me just made the problem worse. I found myself reacting to more and more foods and having to limit more and more foods until I just gave up and decided to eat like any normal person would. My skin is actually better since I've started eating normally. It got a lot worse at first then it sort of..evened out now it's not too bad. It could be that by limiting your diet you create more and more nutrient deficiencies. Like even dairy/chocolate and biscuits (cookies) are the main sources of some vitamins in most people's diets. I swear that people who have persistent acne into their 20s (who don't have hormonal problems like PCOS) all seem to follow a strict diet, whereas those who eat normally their acne usually just goes away after a while by itself. Who knows really...
I'm aware your acne is hormonal so there's not much else you can do..but for others on here it's just something to consider.
It's a shame you can never eat normally again and have to constantly worry about what you eat. The diet approach just isn't for me. If I have to stick to a diet to get clear skin then it's really not a solution. Dieting for me just made the problem worse. I found myself reacting to more and more foods and having to limit more and more foods until I just gave up and decided to eat like any normal person would. My skin is actually better since I've started eating normally. It got a lot worse at first then it sort of..evened out now it's not too bad. It could be that by limiting your diet you create more and more nutrient deficiencies. Like even dairy/chocolate and biscuits (cookies) are the main sources of some vitamins in most people's diets. I swear that people who have persistent acne into their 20s (who don't have hormonal problems like PCOS) all seem to follow a strict diet, whereas those who eat normally their acne usually just goes away after a while by itself. Who knows really...
I'm aware your acne is hormonal so there's not much else you can do..but for others on here it's just something to consider.
CVD's diet is limited to nutrient rich quality foods. ,Normal' people follow diets filled with nutritionally void crap that make them sick and put them on a lifetime of drugs. Look around you.
Yeah. What a shame.
People who continue to eat crap and their skin clears up probably are just outgrowing their acne. Many people's hormones don't stabilize until their late 20's and if they DON'T have other problems like pores that clog easily (skin cells don't shed properly) or sensitivity to sugars or sensitivity to hormones regardless of hormones being balanced (...stress releases cortisone and for sensitive folks that can be eneough to cause a flare-up), or other issues like rosacea or food allergies, etc. --- well they might find their skin clearing regardless of what they eat. But for those of us who do have one or more of those problems we will usually continue to have inflammatory skin problems. I guarantee you though that people who eat crap and continue to do so will get other inflammatory issues...and they become worse with age. I can't begin to tell you how old most of my friends look who eat crap and drink alcohol. They had/have clear skin but now most have heart problems or digestive issues and they take lots of serious medications. Far worse than the very low dose ones I take for my skin. I am extremely thankful in a way for my acne because it kept me trying to find what I could do to eat and live healthy...knowing that at least with those things I had some control. And with diligence I have been able to find a regime that keeps me clear. I truly believe that if I had access to the internet years ago that I would have been able to figure this all out much much sooner. I wonder if young people today realize how lucky they are to have access to research studies and the wisdom of those who have shared their stories. Amazing world we live in now!
That said...eating healthy (nutrient rich diet) and avoiding some common triggers has made my life a dream come true. I am so thankful for finally figuring this out.
That said...eating healthy (nutrient rich diet) and avoiding some common triggers has made my life a dream come true. I am so thankful for finally figuring this out
great!
"
Panoxyl 4 Cleanser (BP) - Cleocin-T Solution - DML Lotion - Physician's Choice SPF 30 Mineral Pressed Powder
Doxycycline 40 mg (anti-inflammatory dose - not antibiotic)
Spironolactone 100 mg
"
wait, what? you're also using Bp + Doxycycline + spironolactone, ..and that's your conclusion?
^^ Yep. My point exactly. Diet is only one aspect of cvd's approach, but she already clarified that. FYI people who read these threads without logging in can't see a user's signature, so they might be led to believe that cvd's only approach to acne is diet, that's why it's useful to clarify that it's not just diet that is getting you clear and that you are mixing a healthy approach with chemicals and drugs.
Regardless, it's always useful to clean up your diet, especially when you are putting other synthetic and chemical crap inside and on your body.
I think for some of us it takes a multi-prong approach to finally get clear. Using meds alone never worked for me even after faithfully using them for years (except for accutane and full strength antibiotics). My cysts went away but the pimples continued. I know for many derms that is considered a success given how my skin was before...but I wasn't satisfied. It wasn't until I added the diet and especially avoided oils that I got clear. I realize now I should have titled my thread differently...but I was just so excited to get clear finally! "Low-fat primitive diet helps get clear" would have been better or something like that and I would change it now but can't figure out how.
I've been researching and experimenting with diets for the last six months. I am in my mid-20's and I had been taking minocycline, twice daily for a long time (with some interruptions), and using various topical treatments that contained benzoyl peroxide.
I tend to have a combination of cystic acne and larger, superficial breakouts on the surface of my skin when I do not use oral antibiotics and topicals. When I use oral antibiotics and topicals I only get a few breakouts here and there every week, probably 60-70% control.
I have tried a no-sugar diet which helped for a while and then my breakouts resumed. I tried a no-sugar, no-fat diet which helped improved my condition greatly but I lost 10 pounds and looked/felt sickly. I tried a no-fat diet and my condition improved initially and then deteriorated. For full disclosure, I always allow one cheat meal per week when I follow a diet, but every other meal is adhered to very strictly. I have fantastic self-control.
Two weeks ago, I decided to stop minocycline and topicals for good. I was "in between diets" and I broke out relatively severely. Long story short, I came across the Kitavan people in an article I read and decided to give the diet a shot. I follow this diet very strictly except for my one cheat meal. I have officially stopped oral antibiotics and topicals. I utilize, for reference, an interview I found with a Kitavan who detailed his diet. I drink no dairy. I drink no soy milk. I do not eat eggs, avocado, nor olive oil because these are excellent sources of ridiculously high amounts of Omega-6's and alternately low amounts of Omega-3 giving you a poor 6/3 ratio. I do not eat pasta, nor tortillas, nor rice, nor rice cakes. The Kitavans don't have any of these and I believe these foods are considered integral parts of the so-called Western diet. I do not drink tea, coffee or alcohol. That being said here is what I do eat:
2-3 meals a day.
For one meal a tuber (potato, yam, etc.), leafy greens (usually kale or spinach), and fish stew with some salt and pepper and coconut cream.
For the other meal, a baked tuber, fresh leafy green salad, and some fish grilled on the stove using coconut oil. Salt and pepper for seasoning.
Throughout the day I eat lots of fresh, whole fruit to satiate my hunger.
If I am thirsty I drink water.
This is it. Just repeat. Funny how we complain that we can't have Mexican food again today because we just ate a burrito yesterday. And yet the Kitavans ate these same meals day in and day out.
For my cheat meal, I usually go out with family or friends. I drink alcohol, eat dairy, and any kind of meat. I eat ice cream. It's a food orgy and I look forward to it. But I still eat in moderation. And I take Omega-3 fish oil in advance to prepare for the onslaught of Omega-6's I get from the meal.
PS I always buy fish wild-caught. Farm raised are fed fish-food that is designed to bulk them up and will negatively impact their healthfulness for consumption. Wild fish eat sea plants, algae, and other fish. This will make the fat content of the fish far more healthful for consumption than farmed fish. Also note that some lakes stock their waters with farmed fish. So just because someone fishes for themselves at a local lake, it does not necessarily mean that the fish is wild-caught.
Your diet sounds very good and is following the Kitavan just about perfectly. I understand what you say about have good control over your eating habits because I do too. I've never been one to cave into cravings...and hence I rarely get cravings anymore! And because I am so disciplined I can fairly accurately determine what foods are a problem for me. I am not being as much of a purist as you are...mainly because my skin seems to tolerate avocado, soymilk, eggs and whole brown rice cakes. I am not convinced that the Kitavan's don't eat eggs. Most primitive cultures do. I wish I could eat coconut products but I am allergic to them so to get some fat in my diet I rely on wild fish and avocado. The amount of olive oil I use in cooking is so rediculously low (less than 1 tsp for entire meal serving whole family) that I doubt it would affect my omegas much. I have to keep my weight up so rely on avocado and fatty wild fish. Plus I do marathons so this is essential. If my weight is getting too low (marathon training) and I've upped the rest of my diet as much as I can then I sometimes increase my waffle (whole spelt, no sugar or oil) or burrito intake...and can seem to do this with no problem. I have to admit both the waffle and burrito have an teeny tiny amount of oil (waffle - quick spritz of olive on grill...burrito - teensy amount of oil in manufacture --- basically none) but they have absolutely no sugar or yeast ingredients which are strong triggers for my acne.
I have experimented with a combination of diets used by peoples with low body inflammation rates (acne, heart disease, etc.) and have concluded they all have basically the same rules with variations along the same theme. Here is a list of diet staples of these various groups. They all eat a bit of "forbidden" foods but only in very tiny amounts given total of other foods eaten during the week...much like we would (i.e. once a week "binge" for you or once a week waffle or burrito for me).
Kitavan (no dairy, sugars, grains, flour, juices)
Fresh vegetables, fruits, tubors (yams, etc.), wild fish in small amounts, coconut oil
Okinawan (no dairy, juices, flour, little if any sugar, grains, oils)
Fresh vegetables, lots of sweet potato (main starch), white rice, small amount of fish, tofu (main protein source), legumes, pork, seaweed, small amount of poultry and eggs
Bantu (no sugar, flour, oils, juices)
Maize, beans, sorghum, vegetables, fruit, fish, sweet potatoes, small amount of wild game, meat and milk
Zulu (no sugar, flour, oil, juices)
Maize, cultured milk, beans, vegetables
Ache (no dairy, flour, oil, juices)
Roots, wild game, fruit, insects, palm hearst (starch), honey (seasonally)
Eat whole foods (varies according to season and locale) and mostly tubors (sweet potato) for starch. Avoid all sugars, most oils, and dairy (research shows is connected to acne and most of these people do not eat dairy).
I do this but do cheat a bit with my soy milk and infrequent waffle or burrito. This seems to work for me.
Your diet sounds very good and is following the Kitavan just about perfectly. I understand what you say about have good control over your eating habits because I do too. I've never been one to cave into cravings...and hence I rarely get cravings anymore! And because I am so disciplined I can fairly accurately determine what foods are a problem for me. I am not being as much of a purist as you are...mainly because my skin seems to tolerate avocado, soymilk, eggs and whole brown rice cakes. I am not convinced that the Kitavan's don't eat eggs. Most primitive cultures do. I wish I could eat coconut products but I am allergic to them so to get some fat in my diet I rely on wild fish and avocado. The amount of olive oil I use in cooking is so rediculously low (less than 1 tsp for entire meal serving whole family) that I doubt it would affect my omegas much. I have to keep my weight up so rely on avocado and fatty wild fish. Plus I do marathons so this is essential. If my weight is getting too low (marathon training) and I've upped the rest of my diet as much as I can then I sometimes increase my waffle (whole spelt, no sugar or oil) or burrito intake...and can seem to do this with no problem. I have to admit both the waffle and burrito have an teeny tiny amount of oil (waffle - quick spritz of olive on grill...burrito - teensy amount of oil in manufacture --- basically none) but they have absolutely no sugar or yeast ingredients which are strong triggers for my acne.
I have experimented with a combination of diets used by peoples with low body inflammation rates (acne, heart disease, etc.) and have concluded they all have basically the same rules with variations along the same theme. Here is a list of diet staples of these various groups. They all eat a bit of "forbidden" foods but only in very tiny amounts given total of other foods eaten during the week...much like we would (i.e. once a week "binge" for you or once a week waffle or burrito for me).
Kitavan (no dairy, sugars, grains, flour, juices)
Fresh vegetables, fruits, tubors (yams, etc.), wild fish in small amounts, coconut oil
Okinawan (no dairy, juices, flour, little if any sugar, grains, oils)
Fresh vegetables, lots of sweet potato (main starch), white rice, small amount of fish, tofu (main protein source), legumes, pork, seaweed, small amount of poultry and eggs
Bantu (no sugar, flour, oils, juices)
Maize, beans, sorghum, vegetables, fruit, fish, sweet potatoes, small amount of wild game, meat and milk
Zulu (no sugar, flour, oil, juices)
Maize, cultured milk, beans, vegetables
Ache (no dairy, flour, oil, juices)
Roots, wild game, fruit, insects, palm hearst (starch), honey (seasonally)
Eat whole foods (varies according to season and locale) and mostly tubors (sweet potato) for starch. Avoid all sugars, most oils, and dairy (research shows is connected to acne and most of these people do not eat dairy).
I do this but do cheat a bit with my soy milk and infrequent waffle or burrito. This seems to work for me.
I think you and I would both agree that we can attack acne by making conscientious decisions about what we consume. That being said I have read through your thread and observed your progress and it seems that you still have occasional bouts with one or two outbreaks here and there. Granted these outbreaks are very small and not inflamed, but it is still something that is struggled with. Moreover, this 99% clearance is obtained in conjunction with topicals and oral antibiotics. This is not a criticism, but merely an expression of my desire to find a diet that won't give me simply 99% clearance and make me dependent on topicals and oral antibiotics. If we are correct in theorizing that acne is mediated by diet, then we shouldn't have to settle for anything less than a cure. 100% clearance.
I would be surprised if primitive cultures ate very many eggs. Probably once in a blue moon due to that fact that chicken domestication is not going to be something that happens on a large scale in a primitive, non-Westernized culture.
I would also like to point out that Kitavans eat fish every day so I wouldn't classify fish consumption as minimal or in small amounts.
Avocados have 3.8 grams of Omega-6 and a 6/3 ratio of 15:1. A scrambled egg has 4.2 grams of 6 and a ratio of 19 to 1. Olive oil has 21 grams of Omega-6 per serving and a 6/3 ratio of almost 13 to 1.
Most of the sources I have researched suggest an ideal ratio of 1 to 1 for 6/3, but the Western diet typically consumes far more Omega-6 in ratios of 20 or 30 to 1. I don't think an egg every now and then, a small amount of Avocado, or a little Olive Oil will kill anyone. But I wouldn't eat them every day, and in the interest of experimenting with the Kitavan food model I have to avoid them for a while.
Thanks for giving me other sources of non-Westernized diets! If this Kitavan food diet works, then I will be looking to expand to other non-Westernized foods for a little diversity. Can I ask where you learned about these other non-Westernized diets? Is there a website where I can find them? Thanks.
I'm not sure about the egg part but after reading various sources it seems that many of these cultures will eat just about anything available in their locale and eggs from wild water fowl would be available...just a conjecture...and like you said, it would be minimal. Most sites I have researched list the "typical" staple foods versus everything the people eat. And many referred to small percentages of other foods eaten if they are available. I don't have a list of the sites but you can easily look for them by googling "Kitavan diet" or whatever and then read everything.
I agree about the diet versus meds issue and the desire to get clear with only diet. I was already on meds when I started really taking diet very seriously so I can't know for sure about what is causing what except to know that when I was doing the typical anti-acne diet and then stopped eating oil (except for teeny amount of olive oil in cooking) my acne dramatically cleared up --- I can't emphasize that strongly eneough. I now rarely get any spots...the only ones being when I fell off the diet while traveling (...which is what you were probably read about...) and even then they were more like my old rosacea spots and went away very quickly.
If I can get up the courage I am thinking about slowly weaning off at least my oral meds in the coming year to test the diet and see if it will keep me clear.
Regarding the omega issue I found it too hard to calculate all the time and instead decided to try to eat as close as I could to cultures that don't get acne. Plus I have read some research that indicates how the body utilizes omega fatty acids depends on all foods eaten and how they interact with each other versus isolated foods which is how these omega ratios are figured out. This is just what I've read and it makes sense to me. It's the same issue as high glycemic foods. Isolated foods may be high glycemic but when eaten in conjunction with other low glycemic foods it is not an inflammatory issue. White rice is one of these foods. When eaten with vegetables and fish the body doesn't get an inflammatory response because it is balanced out.
The whole thing is very interesting to me and I consider myself a novice but a very curious one!
I'm not sure about the egg part but after reading various sources it seems that many of these cultures will eat just about anything available in their locale and eggs from wild water fowl would be available...just a conjecture...and like you said, it would be minimal. Most sites I have researched list the "typical" staple foods versus everything the people eat. And many referred to small percentages of other foods eaten if they are available. I don't have a list of the sites but you can easily look for them by googling "Kitavan diet" or whatever and then read everything.
Yes eggs would be minimal because scattered waterfowl aren't going to lay enough eggs for a tribe of people. From what I have read through google searches, eggs are very rarely part of the Kitavan diet.
If I can get up the courage I am thinking about slowly weaning off at least my oral meds in the coming year to test the diet and see if it will keep me clear.
Please do! I am curious to see how your body reacts!
Regarding the omega issue I found it too hard to calculate all the time and instead decided to try to eat as close as I could to cultures that don't get acne. Plus I have read some research that indicates how the body utilizes omega fatty acids depends on all foods eaten and how they interact with each other versus isolated foods which is how these omega ratios are figured out. This is just what I've read and it makes sense to me. It's the same issue as high glycemic foods. Isolated foods may be high glycemic but when eaten in conjunction with other low glycemic foods it is not an inflammatory issue. White rice is one of these foods. When eaten with vegetables and fish the body doesn't get an inflammatory response because it is balanced out.
This is true! Omega-3 and Omega-6 will competitively fight to be metabolized by the same enzymes in the human body. So if someone were to have a veggie breakfast with a little olive oil and an egg, then that meal would have far more Omega-6 and Omega-6 would win the fight to be metabolized. Similarly a burrito with white rice and avocado will have significantly more Omega-6 than Omega-3. Even sauteed rice with vegetables and a tinsy bit of olive oil will have more omega-6. You are correct in saying that it is not about the isolated food, but it is more about the meal as a whole.
I'm not sure about the egg part but after reading various sources it seems that many of these cultures will eat just about anything available in their locale and eggs from wild water fowl would be available...just a conjecture...and like you said, it would be minimal. Most sites I have researched list the "typical" staple foods versus everything the people eat. And many referred to small percentages of other foods eaten if they are available. I don't have a list of the sites but you can easily look for them by googling "Kitavan diet" or whatever and then read everything.
Yes eggs would be minimal because scattered waterfowl aren't going to lay enough eggs for a tribe of people. From what I have read through google searches, eggs are very rarely part of the Kitavan diet.
If I can get up the courage I am thinking about slowly weaning off at least my oral meds in the coming year to test the diet and see if it will keep me clear.
Please do! I am curious to see how your body reacts!
Regarding the omega issue I found it too hard to calculate all the time and instead decided to try to eat as close as I could to cultures that don't get acne. Plus I have read some research that indicates how the body utilizes omega fatty acids depends on all foods eaten and how they interact with each other versus isolated foods which is how these omega ratios are figured out. This is just what I've read and it makes sense to me. It's the same issue as high glycemic foods. Isolated foods may be high glycemic but when eaten in conjunction with other low glycemic foods it is not an inflammatory issue. White rice is one of these foods. When eaten with vegetables and fish the body doesn't get an inflammatory response because it is balanced out.
This is true! Omega-3 and Omega-6 will competitively fight to be metabolized by the same enzymes in the human body. So if someone were to have a veggie breakfast with a little olive oil and an egg, then that meal would have far more Omega-6 and Omega-6 would win the fight to be metabolized. Similarly a burrito with white rice and avocado will have significantly more Omega-6 than Omega-3. Even sauteed rice with vegetables and a tinsy bit of olive oil will have more omega-6. You are correct in saying that it is not about the isolated food, but it is more about the meal as a whole.
Waterfowl don't tend to be scattered when nesting. Depends on the species but many nest very close together in rookeries.
All I know is that traditional native americans ate eggs they gathered from waterfowl that were abundant in the lake and river areas they resided in. So I made a conjecture that native peoples that populate other similar areas would also gather eggs...just conjecture! I am part native american and worked with a tribe here and know they also gathered grains (wild rice) and grew grains way back in prehistoric times that were pounded into pulses and flours, along with roots that were gathered and also pounded into flours. Of course these flours are far different than our flour today...except for more traditional strains of wheat (i.e. whole spelt) and corn (almost impossible to get). And their flour was not mixed with sugars or yeasts...only water and if available some salt. They made flat breads and added flour to stews made from wild meats or fish and gathered greens. These grains would have been high in Omega 6 but then everything else they ate in the day and week added up I'm sure to a rather good ratio...maybe not the 1:1 ratio that the Inuit ate but still what would be considered an anti-inflammatory diet.
And actually the perfect ratio is more like 4:1 (omega 6 to omega 3) that the Japanese eat and that metabolizes to an almost 1:1 ratio of HUFA's in cell membranes (wikipedia). This is important to consider when thinking about omega ratios --- you don't want competition within cell membranes. This means not eating 1:1 because that doesn't factor in what happens within the body. If you did always eat 1:1 then the ratio would be off within the body and cause other problems. Or this is what researchers think. No one knows absolutely for sure but I find it interesting that mankind ate a certain way for thousands and thousands of years and even in prehistoric times that included grinding roots and grains for flour. However this was a precious expenditure of energy and wild grains were not easy to get so the amount was far less than we eat today. It is the same thing with oil...seeds and fruit (olive) might have been manually pressed but very little was obtained making oil an extremely precious commodity. This kept people healthy as long as there was an abundance of food.
It was the advent of industrialization that turned everything on its head and made previously rare foods (oils, sugars, soft flours) so commonplace and cheap that they replaced the wild whole foods mankind ate and which our bodies need to stay healthy...and less inflammed.
I honestly believe you'd have to add up all foods eaten in a week to determine true omega ratios...not just in one food or one meal...and then the effect would be more calculable. I know for me that I can eat some higher omega 6 foods (oatmeal, some soy milk in my tea, a small helping of pasta once a week, etc.) because all the other foods I eat are lower on omega 6 and I eat some rather high omega 3 foods such as salmon (often), chia seeds (daily) and tons of fresh vegetables that probably balance things out. If I find myself eating bread everyday or foods swimming in solven-based cheap seed oils (canola, safflower, etc.) when I am traveling then I can count on a flare-up but it is very mild because I return to eating my diet as soon as I can.
Oh --- I must also point out that the Japanese eat very closely to the recommended 4:1 (omega 6 to 3) but they eat white rice as their starch staple and wheat noodles and tofu which are all higher omega 6 foods...but they balance this with tons of vegetables and fish, etc and for the most part have beautiful skin. One thing I learned from my chinese sister-in-law is that they use very little oil in cooking. In fact this is where I learned to cook with just a smidgen of oil but then continue the cooking by adding water in small amounts and steaming as part of the saute process. This is compared to what I read in most recipies these days where the norm is to add 2 tablespoons of oil which is a lot. Plus my sister-in-law eats lots of dark leafy greens in just about every dish. She rarely eats breads and is not partial to sugary foods. She loves teas...and she has beautiful unwrinkled skin...just beautiful for a 50 year old. I'd have to say that she was one of my first glimpses into eating different than I had been raised. This was when I started avoiding dairy and started my understanding of the connection of food to acne.