Yup, dairy sucks ass, although I couldn't live without my goats milk kefir. Since ditching the cows milk however, my sinusitis has completely cleared up.....

A huge thing to consider with dairy is that there is such a wide spanning gradient of source and quality, perhaps more so than any other food- grains/breads are a close second. You have everything from pasterurized, homogenized, defatted milk from a caged Holstein being fed GMO soymeal and antibiotics, all the way up to the fresh raw cheese produced that morning from your neighbor's goat that happily grazes on fresh pasture under the warm sun. And everything in between. There's "dairy", and there is "dairy". This is the mentality people all must adopt to get rid of acne and build health.

A huge thing to consider with dairy is that there is such a wide spanning gradient of source and quality, perhaps more so than any other food- grains/breads are a close second. You have everything from pasterurized, homogenized, defatted milk from a caged Holstein being fed GMO soymeal and antibiotics, all the way up to the fresh raw cheese produced that morning from your neighbor's goat that happily grazes on fresh pasture under the warm sun. And everything in between. There's "dairy", and there is "dairy". This is the mentality people all must adopt to get rid of acne and build health.

For sure, I wouldn't know where to source raw goat or cows milk though, although I would love to try it as I have heard that it is a completely different ball game to the pasturised stuff they have to sell in the supermarkets, even the organic pasturised stuff.....

A huge thing to consider with dairy is that there is such a wide spanning gradient of source and quality, perhaps more so than any other food- grains/breads are a close second. You have everything from pasterurized, homogenized, defatted milk from a caged Holstein being fed GMO soymeal and antibiotics, all the way up to the fresh raw cheese produced that morning from your neighbor's goat that happily grazes on fresh pasture under the warm sun. And everything in between. There's "dairy", and there is "dairy". This is the mentality people all must adopt to get rid of acne and build health.

Yes, many issues are due to/worsened by being from grain fed cows. Many issues are reduced/eliminated with fermentation into cheese, yogurt, kefir, etc.

Above all, don't drink the ordinary cows milk in your supermarket. And in general, don't drink a lot of cows milk.

But I don't know if anything reduces the 5alpha-P in milk, if there's any less in milk from goats, sheep, pastured animals, etc. So you don't want dairy to be a big part of your diet. And the way it's a big part of anyone's diet is usually by drinking it.

And as it takes a lot of milk to make small amounts of cheese, is the 5alpha-P concentrated in the cheese?, drained away with the whey? Or is it concentrated in the whey?

More on IGF-1 and dairy. Remember in addition to being in dairy, IGF-1 is stimulated by insulin so in other words, high glycemic and insulinemic meals.

This info below, from a PCOS organization, claims that also IGF-1 stimulates insulin so it's a cycle. Also that 5alpha-P makes you more sensitive to estrogens.

QUOTE

IGF-1 is a "growth factor" that regulates cell growth and development. There is lots of IGF-1 in cow's milk because cow's milk is intended to make baby cows grow fast into mature cows.

But you are not a baby cow. You are an adult human being. So what do you think all this IGF-1 is going to do inside your body? No one knows for sure, but the evidence so far is troubling.

1) IGF-1 stimulates cell division and retards cell death. Therefore, it is a supporter of cancer growth. And acne.

2) IGF-1 in milk appears to increase your insulin levels and possibly increases IGF-1 production inside your body. Excessively high insulin levels are a huge problem for women with PCOS, resulting in a condition called "insulin resistance." Insulin resistance in turn is a driving force behind infertility, weight gain, and all the other symptoms of polycystic ovarian syndrome.

3) IGF-1 stimulates an enzyme called 5alpha-reductase. 5alpha-reductase in turn stimulates the production of DHT (dihydrotestosterone). DHT is thought to be the #1 cause of acne, hirsutism, and hair loss.

4) IGF-1 stimulates production of male hormones by your ovaries and adrenal glands. This is exactly what you don't want to happen. Your male hormone levels are already too high.

5) Increased IGF-1 levels during pregnancy may unfavorably affect the "fetal programming" of the baby that is developing in your uterus. There may be future health consequences for your child.

Enough about IGF-1.

Milk has another problematic compound called 5alpha-P. 5alpha-P is converted into DHT, which in turn worsens acne, hirsutism and hair loss.

5alpha-P also appears to make you more sensitive to estrogen. Many women who have PCOS also have a condition called "estrogen dominance", where they have too much estrogen in relation to progesterone. So, if you have too much "unopposed" estrogen and if 5alpa-P makes you more sensitive to estrogen, you open yourself up to increased risk of estrogen-related disorders such as endometriosis, endometrial cancer, and breast cancer.

Folks, this is only the tip of the iceberg regarding milk. Please review chapter 5.2 "The Problem with Milk" in the diet ebook for more information.

Milk and dairy products are a mixed bag. Dairy has some good things and some bad things. If you consume a lot of dairy products, we suggest you think about cutting back. If you're worried about getting enough calcium, simply take a high-quality multi-vitamin/mineral supplement.

Sources: Melnik B et al, Role of insulin, insulin-like growth factor-1, hyperglycaemic food and milk consumption in the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris, Exp Dermatol. 2009 Oct;18(10):833-41

Danby FW, Acne, dairy and cancer: The 5alpha-P link, Dermatoendocrinol. 2009 Jan;1(1):12-6

Melnik B, Milk consumption: aggravating factor of acne and promoter of chronic diseases of Western societies, J Dtsch Dermatol Ges. 2009 Apr;7(4):364-70

Melnik B, Milk--the promoter of chronic Western diseases, Med Hypotheses. 2009 Jun;72(6):631-9

Has links to the studies and the ebook. See it here if you want to follow them:

http://www.ovarian-cysts-pcos.com/news109.html#sec1

I just came across this:

Dairy may be potentially more harmful in pasteurized, processed milk because of the reduction of SIgA, an immunoglobulin that binds dangerous lectins , Biol Neonate 1991;59(3):121-5 Davin JC et al The high lectin-binding capacity of human secretory IgA protects nonspecifically mucosae against environmental antigens.),

A huge thing to consider with dairy is that there is such a wide spanning gradient of source and quality, perhaps more so than any other food- grains/breads are a close second. You have everything from pasterurized, homogenized, defatted milk from a caged Holstein being fed GMO soymeal and antibiotics, all the way up to the fresh raw cheese produced that morning from your neighbor's goat that happily grazes on fresh pasture under the warm sun. And everything in between. There's "dairy", and there is "dairy". This is the mentality people all must adopt to get rid of acne and build health.

 

For sure, I wouldn't know where to source raw goat or cows milk though, although I would love to try it as I have heard that it is a completely different ball game to the pasturised stuff they have to sell in the supermarkets, even the organic pasturised stuff.....

 

Rifkah, have you ever been to eatwild.com? I found a local farm (kinda local, the closest one to me is still about 30miles) that sells raw milk and cheese, grass fed/pasture raised beef and eggs and seasonal fruits and veggies. I never thought there was anything like that close to me until I looked

Role of insulin, insulin-like growth factor-1, hyperglycaemic food and milk consumption in the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris

http://www.canibaisereis.com/download/insu...a-milk-acne.pdf

This is about cow's milk:

Differential induction of insulin and IGF-1 by

milk protein fractions

The major protein fraction of cowas milk is casein (80%),

and the remaining 20% are whey proteins. The effect of

whey and casein fractions of milk on fasting concentrations

of IGF-1 and insulin has been examined in fifty-seven

8-year-old boys who received over 7 days either casein or

whey proteins in amounts similar to that found in 1.5 l of

skim milk. In the casein group, serum IGF-1 increased by

15%, whereas there was no change in fasting insulin. In the

whey group, fasting insulin increased by 21%, with no

change in IGF-1 (89). The insulin response to a whey meal

has been reported to be higher than that of a milk meal.

This differential response suggests that the insulinotropic

component of milk resides predominantly within the whey

fraction, whereas casein has a stronger IGF-1 stimulating

effect than does whey (89).

One scientist referred to milk as a "complex aqueous, suspended fat, liposomal, suspended protein emulsion". What we do know is that milk is designed to grow things--namely, babies--and in the case of cow's milk, calves. It is naturally full of what we call anabolic hormones (the same ones that body builders and A Rod use to grow big muscles, and which cause bad acne). These are mostly androgens (like testosterone) and growth hormones including insulin like growth factor 1 (IGF-1). There is no such thing as hormone-free milk.

 

Here's a short list of the 60-some hormones in your average glass of milk--even the organic, raw, and bovine growth hormone free milk:

 

20-dihydropregnenolone

progesterone (from pregnenolone)

5-pregnanedione

5-pregnan-3-ol-20-one, 20- and 20-dihydroprogesterone (from progesterone)

5-androstene-317-diol

5-androstanedione

5-androstan-3-ol-17-one

androstenedione

testosterone

dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate acyl ester

insulin like growth factors 1 and 2 (IGF-1 and IGF-2)

insulin

Some of those are precursors to DHT which is implicated in oily skin, hirsutism and male pattern baldness. And some are major factors in hyperkeratinization which is at the root of clogged pores and acne and other skin issues.

From this article on diet and acne: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyma...a_b_822163.html

In today's world people should just simply know that you should not drink cow milk. The molecules are meant for a huge species, to get bigger. Our digestive systems cannot handle it and half of it ends up not even being digestive, only to cause further problems. Now that I have been drinking raw goat milk kefir though, I'm not against all dairy. I did a bunch of searches through this forum for goat milk, and I didn't see one negative comment. So it's crazy that everyone just writes off dairy, even though goat and sheep milk seem to be just fine.

IGF-1 is suppose to make acne terrible, right? Yet many people have had no breakouts from goat milk like myself, so is it the IGF-1 or something else? Pastuerization is also huge like I said in my goat milk kefir thread, it becomes a totally different substance. None the less Raw Organic Goat/Sheep milk seems to be great for acne sufferers, and making kefir/yogurt out of them is best. I have only drank about a cup of the goat milk straight, the rest in kefir. I'm on my 2nd gallon now and just loving the stuff, seeing a bunch of improvements in health.

IGF-1 is suppose to make acne terrible, right? Yet many people have had no breakouts from goat milk like myself, so is it the IGF-1 or something else?

IGF1 is a major factor in hyperkeratinization which is the reason our pores clog. It is made in our bodies stimulated by insulin and is in dairy. But the consumption of dairy does not automatically lead to a pimple unless you are intolerant. But it has a negative impact on many of the processes involved in the formation of acne such as containing IGF-1 and precursors to DHT.

Dairy doesn't noticeably break me out either. Not even cow dairy. But I only have limited amounts. I would bet if I went back to the kind of consumption I used to with drinking big glasses of milk with half my meals, plus eating lots of cheese and ice cream, it would. But I don't plan on ever doing that.

I've had about two gallons of 2% milk in the last four days, and my skin is A-OK!

FUCK dairy products, and the farmers can go to hell as well for animal cruelty!!!

EOM

^^a lot of dairy farms are like luxury palaces to their animals.. the organic farm near me for sure. It is an old couple in their 70's, they have over 115 goats. They are incredibly healthy, very friendly, playful, it was really cool to see. They took me through a whole detour of the place lol. Everything was clean as hell and they took their farm VERY serious.

The goats have a great home, plenty of food, SECURITY, constant attention/care, free to do whatever the hell they want, they had plenty of room to roam. Those goats wouldn't want their lives any other way lol, there's no way they would choose to be out in the wild scrambling for food, having half their family killed every other day, no one to watch over them etc..

About Calcium- deficiency is rare, even in those that don't consume it.

You don't need as much as you think and that dairy and calcium supplement vendors try to tell you. Calcium deficiency is rare and the planet is filled with people that eat little dairy yet have strong bones. What you need is the other nutrients the body needs to use the calcium and to make bones such as D, Magnesium, Vitamin C, vitamin K, zinc and boron.

C is need to make new cells. Any new cell including bone cells. And you need much, much more than the RDA to make all these cells. And because it is water soluble, you need it all day long. This is why you eat fresh fruits and vegetables several times per day.

Magnesium is the fourth most abundant mineral in the body. About 50% of total body magnesium is found in bone.

Calcium sources:

There's calcium in broccoli, spinach, almonds, and other greens and seeds, stock made by boiling bones. Fish bones as in canned sardines. all kinds of foods. Most calcium supplements come from rocks. The calcium in animal bones, shells and plants is much more usable by the body. A little acid (vinegar or lemon juice) added to veggies, egg shells and when boiling bones extracts more calcium. Make your own 'supplements.'

Your body takes minerals from your bones when it needs them.

Don't consume things that impairs the body's ability to use calcium or causes the body to take calcium from the bones. Like the phosphoric acid in sodas and other carbonated drinks, excessive amounts of caffeine, salt, sugar, alcohol, protein. Cigarette smoking. drugs like aspirin, antacids, cortisone and corticosteroids, antibiotics, Stress and depression.

I've had a bit of a breakthrough regarding dairy, calcium and all that.

I've come to realise, dairy is not evil.

Raw dairy, in moderation is great. Even better is fermented dairy. Also as you point out alteravista, it should not be a main staple in your diet, to get your calcium needs and whatnot.

Balance is the key with all diets. I only have raw milk kefir a couple days a week and use ghee in my cooking which is techincally not dairy as it has milk solids removed. I don't have cheese or use it in my foods. I think it's a great addition to your diet, but in moderation and according to how you tolerate it and react to it.

Some of these might already be posted above, but a search for something I just did turned them up.

High intakes of skimmed milk, but not meat, increase serum IGF-I and IGFBP-3 in eight-year-old boys.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15054433?dopt=Abstract

D i e t a r y I m p l i c a t i o n s f o r t h e D e v e l o p m e n t o f A c n e : A S h i f t i n g P a r a d i g m by Cordain

http://www.touchbriefings.com/pdf/2163/Cordain.pdf There's quite a bit about the BTC in dairy.

This Paleo blog article on dairy is pretty good with the info on the hormones in dairy, what might survive digestion/pasteurization/fermentation, etc. With a lot of good sources sited for more info on dairy's impact on factors that affect acne, diabetes and prostate cancer and many other conditions: http://thepaleodiet.blogspot.com/2010/02/paleo-diet-q-3-february-2010-milk.html

High school dietary dairy intake and teenage acne.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15692464

Milk consumption and acne in teenaged boys. http://missclasses.com/mp3s/Prize%20CD%202010/Previous%20years/Diabetes/prospective%20dairy%20zits.pdf

The same people did another on adolescent girls. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17083856

Acne: Are Milk and Sugar the Causes?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/do-milk-and-sugar-cause-a_b_822163.html article

You might be interested in watching Forks Over Knives. I watched in on Netflix for free, not sure if it's still on there. Might be able to find it online somehwere but part of it basically explains how our bodies weren't meant to consume animal protein. Wheather through milk or meat.

When they increased levels of casein given to lab rats they actually found evidence of cancer growth. It's been awhile since I've watched it but there was some scary stuff in it and lots of evidence and science to back it up.

Also talks about how bad the American diet is and how it is causing the alarming amount of diseases we suffer from. Interesting watch even if you don't buy into it all.

Not trying to advertise but a trailer is on the site

http://www.forksoverknives.com/

I'd look for it on Netflix if you got it.

I had this posted elsewhere. Apparently probiotics involved in the fermentation of dairy in yogurt and cheese making reduce the IGF1 content:

And this little tidbit on the IGF1 in dairy being reduced in fermented dairy:

Quote

We also find it noteworthy that of three large population studies linking dairy consumption (most notably milk) and acne, none made a positive correlation between fermented dairy (e.g. yogurt) and acne . It has been postulated that milk is associated with acne because it contains growth hormones (both synthetically added and naturally occurring) . Acne is certainly driven by insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) , and IGF-I can be absorbed across colonic tissue. Therefore, it is interesting to note that probiotic bacteria (Lactobacilli in particular) utilize IGF-I during the fermentation process when added to milk, with a resultant 4-fold lower level of IGF-I in fermented vs. skim milk .

From this post: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php/topic/298075-recent-advances-in-acne-pathogenesis-information/page__st__20#entry3242187

I wonder if the poor Lactobacilli gets acne?

I've always noticed sour cream is better for me than regular cream.

A few articles on dairy from other ruminants -goats, sheep, camels, water buffalo) including one with a comparison chart. Not necessarily comparing the things we need to know for our acne other than digestibility/lactose, unfortunately.

http://www.sarahmelamed.com/2009/06/comparision-of-camel-cow-goat-and-buffalo-milk/ `

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/east/series7/buffalo_milk.shtml

A Good Thing about Dairy

Goat milk/cheese/yogurt - As opposed to cow. Is easier to digest because of slight differences in proteins and fat molecules. And it's 3x higher in octanoic acid which your body converts to form lipoic acid, a powerful antioxidant. It's AKA caprylic acid, a word that comes from the latin word for goat. Some of the longest lived societies have goats milk as a big part of their diet. Octanoic acid is also found in coconut oil, and human milk is higher in octanoic acid than cows milk.

Lipoic Acid is a popular anti-aging supplement. And it helps with glucose metabolism, blood pressure and can chelate metals from the body. Caprylic acid is also antimicrobial and been found to be effective against various streptococcus and staphylococcus infections. It's a medium chain fatty acid and it along with the lauric acid content make goat milk far higher in beneficial medium chain fatty acids. (seems to have quite a bit in common with coconut)

Livestrong.com says caprylic acid is best known for being effective against yeast overgrowth in intestines, mouth, vagina, skin, etc. I wasn't aware of that though, and they don't cite sources.

I'm sorry to say that sheep's milk, which has it's benefits, is not so high in caprylic acid. Too bad as flavorful sheep's milk cheeses like romano and feta abound. and those things are great because a little goes a long way.

More info on dairy including from other animals such as water buffalo. In the preview of the New Good Foods book available on Amazon. http://books.google.com/books?id=ehA-_UQITvoC&pg=PA198&lpg=PA198&dq=caprylic+acid+in+sheeps+milk&source=bl&ots=lKT0Vf4RPT&sig=_7KlNyyvi-Bml1zJAUQuA5R1Y5A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_THjUKTYMKea2AXBq4DwDA&ved=0CIYBEOgBMAk#v=onepage&q=caprylic%20acid%20in%20sheeps%20milk&f=false Even though you can't see every page, it looks like a pretty good reference on quality food.

I've consumed cow's milk / cheese almost every day of my life. I'm currently acne-free, but if I get cancer I'll let you know.

My aunt and I both have similar acne which has been proven hormonal for her and she believes is also hormonal for me, she recently gave birth to two children and gives them all organic products that way they don't get all the added hormones and she believe that her kids will grow up with little acne. I also am switching over to all organic meat, dairy, etc.