I apologize in advance for my late reply; I did not expect this thread to be responded to. It wasn't until I checked my inbox that I saw I actually had some replies!
I'm not good at quoting others, so please bear with me.
Senoritastephie : I am so glad you were able to relate to the message! Thank you for sharing your experiences. 
AlexanderJ86 : I am so sorry for those who have treated you unfairly, and I wholly agree on your interpretation of how the media affects society's ideals of beauty. However, I advise you not to isolate yourself from others because of that. You call other people "aggressive and uncivilized", and say that "only looks matter" while proclaiming yourself to be an "intelligent" and "nice guy"; it all indicates an aura of haughtiness (and I doubt you're that kind of person). Although there are bad people out there, keep in mind not all people are "barbaric and uncivilized". Meet people who share your interests, and actually make an effort to get to know them (I know it's not easy, but try); sometimes you find a "diamond in the rough"- somebody who restores your faith in humanity completely. Although I appreciate your honesty, your seemingly pessimistic views of others is offensive enough to make me believe it's your personality -not your acne- that's the problem. Please don't isolate yourself; there are good people out there, you just have to find them. Don't let your bad experiences traumatize you or stop you from making friends and opening up to others again.
TemperateCent:
I find your comment to be extremely irrelevant. The issue I'm discussing in this topic is low self-esteem, not anxiety. It's that simple. I wasn't trying to "leave anyone out" or offend anyone. I just wanted to discuss low self-esteem.
(Besides, I have no personal or professional experience with anxiety; therefore, I do not think I am qualified to advise those with anxiety.)
I think you may have misunderstood what I meant to say. The message of my story was supposed to motivate those with low self-esteem to become more confident and put themselves out there (that's why I clearly stressed to love yourself more, and to stop the self-loathing mentalities), not to make them think to themselves "oh I'm not confident, so that means I'm screwed". That interpretation was not what I intended.
TheBigBernard:
I agree with you one hundred percent there.
And there are other factors that determine overall attractiveness other than 'looks', I am glad you pointed that out.
QuietJamie14:
Arrogance and confidence are not synonymous. In my own words, confidence is loving and respecting yourself, while arrogance is a mixture of vanity and haughtiness. That "inner peace" you describe is what I believe to be true confidence- not the "confidence" you described (which I believe to be arrogance) such as the "alpha male" mindset.
Tracy521:
I agree with you, I think most girls find an egoistic, stereotypical "jerk" personality to be unattractive.
Especially as girls get older, they begin to look for men that would make good fathers, bring in a good income, can support a family, will be faithful- as opposed to just a pretty face and body.
So for all those boys who think those good-looking "jerks" are going to get the girls in the end, you're wrong.
Graciemeow:
Your comment made my day. 
I am so happy that my post was able to reach somebody like it did to you; it has made it entirely worth it, just knowing that you were able to benefit from this. I hope that everything does well with you and your partner, and I am glad I was able to help.
Wishclean:
Very well spoken, I couldn't agree more!
Randall Flagg:
Remember how I said not to confuse cockiness with confidence in the original post?
The "alpha male" stereotype would fall into the cockiness category, in my opinion.
I am glad you do not wish to be the "alpha male". Be yourself and respect your boundaries, despite what society thinks.
.
I apologize in advance for my late reply; I did not expect this thread to be responded to. It wasn't until I checked my inbox that I saw I actually had some replies!
I'm not good at quoting others, so please bear with me.
Senoritastephie : I am so glad you were able to relate to the message! Thank you for sharing your experiences.
AlexanderJ86 : I am so sorry for those who have treated you unfairly, and I wholly agree on your interpretation of how the media affects society's ideals of beauty. However, I advise you not to isolate yourself from others because of that. You call other people "aggressive and uncivilized", and say that "only looks matter" while proclaiming yourself to be an "intelligent" and "nice guy"; it all indicates an aura of haughtiness (and I doubt you're that kind of person). Although there are bad people out there, keep in mind not all people are "barbaric and uncivilized". Meet people who share your interests, and actually make an effort to get to know them (I know it's not easy, but try); sometimes you find a "diamond in the rough"- somebody who restores your faith in humanity completely. Although I appreciate your honesty, your seemingly pessimistic views of others is offensive enough to make me believe it's your personality -not your acne- that's the problem. Please don't isolate yourself; there are good people out there, you just have to find them. Don't let your bad experiences traumatize you or stop you from making friends and opening up to others again.
TemperateCent:
I find your comment to be extremely irrelevant. The issue I'm discussing in this topic is low self-esteem, not anxiety. It's that simple. I wasn't trying to "leave anyone out" or offend anyone. I just wanted to discuss low self-esteem.
(Besides, I have no personal or professional experience with anxiety; therefore, I do not think I am qualified to advise those with anxiety.)
I think you may have misunderstood what I meant to say. The message of my story was supposed to motivate those with low self-esteem to become more confident and put themselves out there (that's why I clearly stressed to love yourself more, and to stop the self-loathing mentalities), not to make them think to themselves "oh I'm not confident, so that means I'm screwed". That interpretation was not what I intended.
TheBigBernard:
I agree with you one hundred percent there.
And there are other factors that determine overall attractiveness other than 'looks', I am glad you pointed that out.
QuietJamie14:
Arrogance and confidence are not synonymous. In my own words, confidence is loving and respecting yourself, while arrogance is a mixture of vanity and haughtiness. That "inner peace" you describe is what I believe to be true confidence- not the "confidence" you described (which I believe to be arrogance) such as the "alpha male" mindset.
Tracy521:
I agree with you, I think most girls find an egoistic, stereotypical "jerk" personality to be unattractive.
Especially as girls get older, they begin to look for men that would make good fathers, bring in a good income, can support a family, will be faithful- as opposed to just a pretty face and body.
So for all those boys who think those good-looking "jerks" are going to get the girls in the end, you're wrong.
Graciemeow:
Your comment made my day.
I am so happy that my post was able to reach somebody like it did to you; it has made it entirely worth it, just knowing that you were able to benefit from this. I hope that everything does well with you and your partner, and I am glad I was able to help.
Wishclean:
Very well spoken, I couldn't agree more!
Randall Flagg:
Remember how I said not to confuse cockiness with confidence in the original post?
The "alpha male" stereotype would fall into the cockiness category, in my opinion.
I am glad you do not wish to be the "alpha male". Be yourself and respect your boundaries, despite what society thinks.
.
I don't care much about looks. At least not the way other people do. You have misread the bit about being a nice guy. My social skills have actually been tested by psychiatry. They are fine. The group of civilized people is so small that I have developed untreatable disorders. Now that people allow me to become like that is really offensive! What I say is nothing compared to what I have been through.
I don't care much about looks. At least not the way other people do. You have misread the bit about being a nice guy. My social skills have actually been tested by psychiatry. They are fine. The group of civilized people is so small that I have developed untreatable disorders. Now that people allow me to become like that is really offensive! What I say is nothing compared to what I have been through.
.
The only one completely in charge of what you become is yourself. It's up to you -not others- whether to use that experience to help yourself, or to hurt yourself.
You often don't get to chose what bad things happen to you in life; however, you can chose the effect it has on you.
And yes, I know I'm being harsh, but I believe that we should be able to rise above the bad experiences in life and make something good out of it.
I doubt you're a bad person, but I advise you to try to think more positively about other people and to not victimize yourself according to your past experiences.
And it's great that your "social skills have been tested by psychiatry", but that's not a measure of character. Character is what you do when nobody is watching.
But I digress; that's an entirely different discussion.
In short, you have the power to chose who you become- take all those negative experiences and use them to build yourself up, not knock yourself down.
In my experience dating and having acne has been more challenging than my Linear Algebra class (which is ridiculously grueling). Feeling insecure is unattractive to men. And I agree that confidence is so significant when dating. Although in my case I suffer terrible anxiety and having acne makes it more severe.
What has worked for me is being honest towards whomever I am seeing about my insecurities towards my blemishes. I don't need to tell the universe that I'm insecure. Everyone has insecurities whether it is pimples, feeling insignificant, being broke, lacking sexual experience or being unintelligent. People have problems. Unfortunately, some of our "bumps in the road" are literally visible on our face. And to be honest all of those insecurities I listed above, I deal with every day.
Fear keeps us back from being the best we can be.
I don't care much about looks. At least not the way other people do. You have misread the bit about being a nice guy. My social skills have actually been tested by psychiatry. They are fine. The group of civilized people is so small that I have developed untreatable disorders. Now that people allow me to become like that is really offensive! What I say is nothing compared to what I have been through.
.
The only one completely in charge of what you become is yourself. It's up to you -not others- whether to use that experience to help yourself, or to hurt yourself.
You often don't get to chose what bad things happen to you in life; however, you can chose the effect it has on you.
And yes, I know I'm being harsh, but I believe that we should be able to rise above the bad experiences in life and make something good out of it.
I doubt you're a bad person, but I advise you to try to think more positively about other people and to not victimize yourself according to your past experiences.
And it's great that your "social skills have been tested by psychiatry", but that's not a measure of character. Character is what you do when nobody is watching.
But I digress; that's an entirely different discussion.
In short, you have the power to chose who you become- take all those negative experiences and use them to build yourself up, not knock yourself down.
"you can chose the effect it has on you."
Can you prove that statement? Psychiatry says you can't. The existence of the DSM is proof for their position. The reality is is that we are all products of our environment.
TemperateCent, on 30 May 2014 - 19:24, said:
I didn't misunderstand anything and I guess I gave you more credit that I should have, so I'll have to spell it out more simply so that you can understand. Anxiety is perfectly relevant to this discussion because people with anxiety will have problems with confidence and self esteem because of their anxiety. So they might never have confidence, and you left people like that out.
You must not know much about anxiety then.
Now let me explain this to you "simply so that you can understand":
Anxiety is a nervous disorder often accompanied by feelings of frustration, anger, and/or worry. Anxiety does not mean you have low self-esteem; it means the brain has tendencies to worry excessively or become frustrated when encountered with what the sufferer thinks of as a stressful situation. By stating "people with anxiety will have problems with confidence and self esteem because of their anxiety", you are generalizing people who suffer from anxiety and not only is this is not true, it's offensive to people with anxiety. There are many types of anxiety- and most of them have nothing to do with self-esteem.
The most common type of anxiety is Generalized Anxiety Disorder (or GAD), which is a chronic disorder characterized by excessive, long-lasting anxiety and worry about nonspecific life events, objects, and situations. GAD sufferers often feel afraid and worry about health, money, family, work, or school, and have trouble controlling the worries. Their fear is usually unrealistic or out of proportion with what may be expected in their situation. Sufferers expect failure and disaster to the point that it interferes with daily functions like work, school, social activities, and relationships. As you can see, GAD does not have anything to do with low self-image.
Another common anxiety disorder is Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, or OCD. This is an anxiety disorder characterized by thoughts or actions that are repetitive, distressing, and intrusive. OCD suffers usually know that their compulsions are unreasonable or irrational, but they serve to alleviate their anxiety. Once again, this has nothing to do with low self-esteem.
Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is anxiety that results from previous trauma such as military combat, rape, hostage situations, or a serious accident. PTSD often leads to flashbacks and behavioral changes in order to avoid certain stimuli. However, this does not correlate with low self-esteem.
Separation Anxiety Disorder is characterized by high levels of anxiety when separated from a person or place that provides feelings of security or safety. Sometimes separation results in panic, and it is considered a disorder when the response is excessive or inappropriate. In other words, it does not correlate with low self-esteem.
Last but not least, Social Anxiety Disorder (SAD), is considered a type of social phobia- the fear of being negatively judged and/or publicly humiliated. This includes feelings such as stage fright, a fear of intimacy, and a fear of humiliation. This disorder can cause people to avoid public situations and human contact to the point that normal life is rendered impossible. This is the only anxiety disorder that had anything to do with having low self-esteem, although SAD does not directly correlate to low self-esteem. Sure, you can have social anxiety disorder and low self-esteem, but the two do not always come hand-in-hand. This type of anxiety is based off your fear of not being socially accepted as opposed to having low self-confidence. It is a phobia, not a dysmorphic disorder.
I don't think you knew what anxiety actually was, otherwise you would have known most people with anxiety do not suffer from low self esteem. Thanks for generalizing all the people who suffer from anxiety, "genius".
But I am glad you brought this up, because I had the opportunity to learn more about different types of anxiety. And I'm hoping this will finally end your grievances about me being "mean" to people with anxiety by "leaving them out".
I don't believe I was leaving anyone out in the OP. This is advice I would have give to anyone, regardless of whether or not they have any type of anxiety, because I think everyone should be able to feel confident about themselves. Like I said in the OP, it definitely isn't easy (especially to people with SAD, I imagine) but it is worth it. In fact, I targeted this to those with low self-esteem especially, because I think they're the ones who need to hear it the most.
I would like to remind you just because somebody has an anxiety disorder doesn't mean they have self esteem issues like you have been previously implying. To learn more about different types of anxiety, visit:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/info/anxiety/
Be sure to do your research the next time you use a disorder in an argument.
My apologies for all the bold words in the text; bold is the only way I imagine the importance of the words can be stressed.
Sarah likes Cats, on 30 May 2014 - 16:41, said:
In my experience dating and having acne has been more challenging than my Linear Algebra class (which is ridiculously grueling). Feeling insecure is unattractive to men. And I agree that confidence is so significant when dating. Although in my case I suffer terrible anxiety and having acne makes it more severe.
What has worked for me is being honest towards whomever I am seeing about my insecurities towards my blemishes. I don't need to tell the universe that I'm insecure. Everyone has insecurities whether it is pimples, feeling insignificant, being broke, lacking sexual experience or being unintelligent. People have problems. Unfortunately, some of our "bumps in the road" are literally visible on our face. And to be honest all of those insecurities I listed above, I deal with every day.
Fear keeps us back from being the best we can be.
Yeoch, I feel you there; Algebra is not all fun-and-games. And you suffer from anxiety? I hope you don't mind me asking, but what kind?
Yeah, I honestly think everyone has insecurities, even the most confident people, because nobody is perfect. We all have our flaws; I think true confidence is about learning to accept them. ^^
I have to agree with you on that. As Franklin D. Roosevelt once said, "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself!"
I hope you will be able to have positive experiences with dating in the future, and ultimately, feel better about yourself. I appreciate your honesty about your insecurities to your partner; it's very open and a very good call, I think. Opening up about your insecurities is not an easy thing to do, but keeping it bottled inside isn't exactly a great idea. If it bothers you a lot, it would be best to discuss it with a good buddy for many reasons: a) shoulder to cry on, b) someone can listen to you while you vent, and c) someone can relate to you. (:
AlexanderJ86, on 31 May 2014 - 01:44, said:
"you can chose the effect it has on you."
Can you prove that statement? Psychiatry says you can't. The existence of the DSM is proof for their position. The reality is is that we are all products of our environment.
No, I'm afraid I can't prove it, but neither can determinism be proved. They're both abstract doctrines.
Anyway, we're kind of getting off topic now.
And I agree with you; we are products of our environment. Technically, all living organisms are.
TemperateCent, on 30 May 2014 - 19:24, said:
I didn't misunderstand anything and I guess I gave you more credit that I should have, so I'll have to spell it out more simply so that you can understand. Anxiety is perfectly relevant to this discussion because people with anxiety will have problems with confidence and self esteem because of their anxiety. So they might never have confidence, and you left people like that out.
You must not know much about anxiety then.
Now let me explain this to you "simply so that you can understand":
Anxiety is a nervous disorder often accompanied by feelings of frustration, anger, and/or worry. Anxiety does not mean you have low self-esteem; it means the brain has tendencies to worry excessively or become frustrated when encountered with what the sufferer thinks of as a stressful situation. By stating "people with anxiety will have problems with confidence and self esteem because of their anxiety", you are generalizing people who suffer from anxiety and not only is this is not true, it's offensive to people with anxiety. There are many types of anxiety- and most of them have nothing to do with self-esteem.
The most common type of anxiety is Generalized Anxiety Disorder (or GAD), which is a chronic disorder characterized by excessive, long-lasting anxiety and worry about nonspecific life events, objects, and situations. GAD sufferers often feel afraid and worry about health, money, family, work, or school, and have trouble controlling the worries. Their fear is usually unrealistic or out of proportion with what may be expected in their situation. Sufferers expect failure and disaster to the point that it interferes with daily functions like work, school, social activities, and relationships. As you can see, GAD does not have anything to do with low self-image.
Another common anxiety disorder is Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, or OCD. This is an anxiety disorder characterized by thoughts or actions that are repetitive, distressing, and intrusive. OCD suffers usually know that their compulsions are unreasonable or irrational, but they serve to alleviate their anxiety. Once again, this has nothing to do with low self-esteem.
Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is anxiety that results from previous trauma such as military combat, rape, hostage situations, or a serious accident. PTSD often leads to flashbacks and behavioral changes in order to avoid certain stimuli. However, this does not correlate with low self-esteem.
Separation Anxiety Disorder is characterized by high levels of anxiety when separated from a person or place that provides feelings of security or safety. Sometimes separation results in panic, and it is considered a disorder when the response is excessive or inappropriate. In other words, it does not correlate with low self-esteem.
Last but not least, Social Anxiety Disorder (SAD), is considered a type of social phobia- the fear of being negatively judged and/or publicly humiliated. This includes feelings such as stage fright, a fear of intimacy, and a fear of humiliation. This disorder can cause people to avoid public situations and human contact to the point that normal life is rendered impossible. This is the only anxiety disorder that had anything to do with having low self-esteem, although SAD does not directly correlate to low self-esteem. Sure, you can have social anxiety disorder and low self-esteem, but the two do not always come hand-in-hand. This type of anxiety is based off your fear of not being socially accepted as opposed to having low self-confidence. It is a phobia, not a dysmorphic disorder.
I don't think you knew what anxiety actually was, otherwise you would have known most people with anxiety do not suffer from low self esteem. Thanks for generalizing all the people who suffer from anxiety, "genius".
But I am glad you brought this up, because I had the opportunity to learn more about different types of anxiety. And I'm hoping this will finally end your grievances about me being "mean" to people with anxiety by "leaving them out".
I don't believe I was leaving anyone out in the OP. This is advice I would have give to anyone, regardless of whether or not they have any type of anxiety, because I think everyone should be able to feel confident about themselves. Like I said in the OP, it definitely isn't easy (especially to people with SAD, I imagine) but it is worth it. In fact, I targeted this to those with low self-esteem especially, because I think they're the ones who need to hear it the most.
I would like to remind you just because somebody has an anxiety disorder doesn't mean they have self esteem issues like you have been previously implying. To learn more about different types of anxiety, visit:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/info/anxiety/
Be sure to do your research the next time you use a disorder in an argument.
My apologies for all the bold words in the text; bold is the only way I imagine the importance of the words can be stressed.
>>Sarah likes Cats, on 30 May 2014 - 16:41, said:
In my experience dating and having acne has been more challenging than my Linear Algebra class (which is ridiculously grueling). Feeling insecure is unattractive to men. And I agree that confidence is so significant when dating. Although in my case I suffer terrible anxiety and having acne makes it more severe.
What has worked for me is being honest towards whomever I am seeing about my insecurities towards my blemishes. I don't need to tell the universe that I'm insecure. Everyone has insecurities whether it is pimples, feeling insignificant, being broke, lacking sexual experience or being unintelligent. People have problems. Unfortunately, some of our "bumps in the road" are literally visible on our face. And to be honest all of those insecurities I listed above, I deal with every day.
Fear keeps us back from being the best we can be.
Yeoch, I feel you there; Algebra is not all fun-and-games. And you suffer from anxiety? I hope you don't mind me asking, but what kind?
Yeah, I honestly think everyone has insecurities, even the most confident people, because nobody is perfect. We all have our flaws; I think true confidence is about learning to accept them. ^^
I have to agree with you on that. As Franklin D. Roosevelt once said, "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself!"
I hope you will be able to have positive experiences with dating in the future, and ultimately, feel better about yourself. I appreciate your honesty about your insecurities to your partner; it's very open and a very good call, I think. Opening up about your insecurities is not an easy thing to do, but keeping it bottled inside isn't exactly a great idea. If it bothers you a lot, it would be best to discuss it with a good buddy for many reasons: a) shoulder to cry on, b) someone can listen to you while you vent, and c) someone can actually relate to you.
AlexanderJ86, on 31 May 2014 - 01:44, said:
"you can chose the effect it has on you."
Can you prove that statement? Psychiatry says you can't. The existence of the DSM is proof for their position. The reality is is that we are all products of our environment.
Psychiatry can't prove the concept of free will wrong, just like it can't prove determinism right. They're abstract doctrines; both are impossible of being proved right or wrong.
And of course we're products of our environment, we're living organisms, aren't we?
If we are products of our environment, how can we choose what kind of effect something has on us? Abstract doctrines aside, people, who don't function in society, do exist. Do you really think people choose for pain, suffering and distress in their lives? You know that those things are negative. Why would anyone choose for those things if it is really a choice? If it is a choice, why does the DSM exist in the first place?
I think what Radioheart is trying to say is that anxiety is not necessarily synonymous with low self-esteem, although there is a strong correlation.
Regarding the environmental factors debate, I feel that what you do is largely shaped by your external circumstances. However, keep in mind that you are also capable of shaping your environment. It's a feedback system, and not an unidirectional cause-and-effect scenario.
Personally, I think the argument that "we wouldn't choose negative consequences, hence it's 100% environmental" is fallacious. We can and do choose wrongly. Diagnosis is based on symptoms and evidence, and not exclusively on its etiology, as the same event could trigger vastly different responses in different people.
I have OCD and general anxiety and in my experience they walk hand in hand with myself esteem. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong. This is just my opinion with my feelings.
Back to the main subject of dating and having acne.
I dated a boy a while ago who had acne worse than mine. He wasn't insecure about it. And didn't try to mask it at all. He was absolutely and perfectly confident. And that's what made him attractive to him. He even joked on the first date that he broke out because he was so nervous about our date.
If you can acknowledge and have a sense of humor about your flaws, it can be very sexy.
Let's all face it- for most of us with acne, dating doesn't come easily. Love doesn't come easily.
And no, it's not because we're all 'ugly' or any of that superficial nonsense. It's because we tend to have self-esteem low enough to win a limbo contest. That's the core of the problem. We degrade ourselves, tell ourselves how 'nobody will ever love us', how 'acne is ruining our lives', how 'a social/love life just isn't possible with acne'. And with enough reinforcement from ourselves, it becomes the truth.
If you have ever thought any of these things, stop. Just stop. Please. To put it bluntly: that self-loathing attitude will not get you anywhere in life. I mean, come on, you are the person you will spend every conscious moment with; at least learn to love yourself!
Let me tell you the problem that arises when dating with acne: you sell yourself short. You think you're not good enough. And that means you're not confident. And that's one of the biggest turn-offs a person can have.
In today's world, confidence is everything. Confidence -not to be confused with cockiness- is sexy. It shows that you are a happy individual with self-worth, and who doesn't want to date someone who is happy and secure in themselves? I know I do. Confidence shows you are emotionally and mentally stable in yourself, which is something everyone wants in a partner.
I don't care whether you have glistening, clear skin or a face full of cystic acne, if you don't love yourself, you can not expect somebody else to love you. What I'm trying to say is that before you start looking for somebody to love, start loving yourself. Stop selling yourself short. Stop saying acne is the reason you can't get a boyfriend, can't get friends, can't get a job, etc.
I have acne. I am not conventionally attractive. I am overweight.
Yet I have a boyfriend. I am first in my school's academic rankings. I have friends. I placed first in the violin section of our orchestra. I am in a band.
None of this could have been achieved if I have just given up on myself because I had acne. There was no way I would even have a boyfriend right now if I hadn't been confident in myself. There was no way I would have taken up music if I was afraid of everyone watching me while I performed onstage. I wouldn't have met all the wonderful friends I know now had I spent my days sulking shyly alone rather than being friendly. And it's not easy, I didn't say it was: but it is definitely worth it.
My point: Acne is not the end of your social, romantic, or academic life.Don't give up on yourself or hate yourself, because then you'll find yourself missing all the wonderful opportunities life throws at you and it will be so much harder to enjoy your life.
Be confident. Love yourself. With or without acne, you're still a living, breathing human being deserving of love and self-worth.
Very true to life post! Acne is only a small part of us and our mind unfortunately blows it up into the end all and be all. The society that we live in doesn't exactly help things either. But it is not easy for many of us to just STOP thinking this way. It's taken us years to get into this mindset and it may take years to get out. Practical suggestions that i've heard and i try to do:
Tell myself i love myself, acne and all first thing in the morning
limit mirror time
Find other parts of my body that i love and acknowledge it (my hair is it for me)
Take Care of my body (exercise, eat right, keep my stress levels low)
Go out even when i don't feel like it or my acne holds me back
Think of all the good i have in my life - good people, good food, blessings in life
In regards to dating, very few of my friends know how bad my acne depresses me but i know that i am more withdrawn the worse it is. I try to always make eye contact with guys and smile. I haven't been in a serious relationship in years but i am open to it and i'm hoping to meet the kind of guy that can look at me and see what lies deep inside. In agreeing with the OP, us acne folks can have it all, we just need to unfortunately work harder at it.
I think what Radioheart is trying to say is that anxiety is not necessarily synonymous with low self-esteem, although there is a strong correlation.
Regarding the environmental factors debate, I feel that what you do is largely shaped by your external circumstances. However, keep in mind that you are also capable of shaping your environment. It's a feedback system, and not an unidirectional cause-and-effect scenario.
Personally, I think the argument that "we wouldn't choose negative consequences, hence it's 100% environmental" is fallacious. We can and do choose wrongly. Diagnosis is based on symptoms and evidence, and not exclusively on its etiology, as the same event could trigger vastly different responses in different people.
I have not said "hence". The "choosing" part and the "environmental" part are unrelated.
Don't worry, RadioHeart isn't an expert in this field and shouldn't be debating something she has no idea about. RadioHeart, anxiety disorders
are linked to low self esteem.
"Fear and anxiety are the cornerstone of low self esteem. Based on early life experiences, people develop a perspective of how they fit in the world: whether they are adequate, lovable, worthy, and/or competent. If their view of themselves is negative, they go through life fearful and anxious, on guard, disappointed, anticipating the worst, and unable to relax until they recover from this devastating issue of low self esteem. This anxiety is extreme and permeates everything in the persons life including the ability to make sound decisions, the ability to maintain ambition, the ability to bounce back after disappointments, the persons basic emotional stability, the persons sustainability, the persons energy, the persons ability to learn from his mistakes, the persons openness to developing new skills, the persons ability to be introspective."
"Social anxiety disorder is associated with a number of other problems including low self-esteem, poor body image, depression, and substance abuse problems."
"Anxiety disorders can further cause low self-esteem, lead to substance abuse, and isolation from ones friends and family."
Do research from a RELIABLE source next time, not just any random page you find from Google. I would be wary of taking any advice from RadioHeart considering the sources she gets her information.
Of course I'm not an expert in anxiety, I told you before how I have no personal experience with anxiety, which is why I didn't include it in the first post. I was not trying to "leave anybody out", as you so rudely assumed before.
And you're right, I shouldn't be debating about anxiety, and neither should you. This is a low self esteem post, not an anxiety discussion.
It was a medical website; forgive me for mistaking is as a reliable source.
And I stand corrected; anxiety can lead to low self-esteem. However, anxiety is not synonymous with low self-esteem, like you hinted at earlier when you were upset with me for leaving out people with anxiety in a low self-esteem post. Keep in mind this topic was meant to discuss self-esteem and body image (something I am personally familiar in struggling with), as opposed to anxiety (which is something I have never had to suffer).
I can not stress this enough: Expecting me to understand something I have never experienced is difficult, and expecting me to discuss it and give advice on it is even more so. If you want to add something for people with anxiety and low self-esteem, be my guest, but if you want to malign me for not including people with anxiety in my original post (which was the root of this entire conversation), it's still not my place to give personal advice on something I do not have personal experience with.
If we are products of our environment, how can we choose what kind of effect something has on us? Abstract doctrines aside, people, who don't function in society, do exist. Do you really think people choose for pain, suffering and distress in their lives? You know that those things are negative. Why would anyone choose for those things if it is really a choice? If it is a choice, why does the DSM exist in the first place?
I think as human beings, we have the ability to chose -to a certain extent- the effect the something has on us. For example, if somebody has acne (let's say it's caused by genetic factors), it can not be helped. You certainly did not chose to have acne; however, you can chose whether or not to go out and attempt being social, as opposed to attempting to isolate yourself because of your low self confidence. This is a decision you can make for yourself; nobody is forcing you to go out, and nobody is forcing you to stay inside. It's completely up to you- a conscious decision. You may find it easier to isolate yourself, but you can also chose to get out there despite the struggle and try to fight the low self-esteem in any way you can. The hardest battle you fight is the one against yourself, but it is your choice whether or not it is a battle worth fighting for. Sorry for the cheesy metaphor, but metaphors help me put something into a physical understanding.
Very true to life post! Acne is only a small part of us and our mind unfortunately blows it up into the end all and be all. The society that we live in doesn't exactly help things either. But it is not easy for many of us to just STOP thinking this way. It's taken us years to get into this mindset and it may take years to get out. Practical suggestions that i've heard and i try to do:
Tell myself i love myself, acne and all first thing in the morning
limit mirror time
Find other parts of my body that i love and acknowledge it (my hair is it for me)
Take Care of my body (exercise, eat right, keep my stress levels low)
Go out even when i don't feel like it or my acne holds me back
Think of all the good i have in my life - good people, good food, blessings in life
In regards to dating, very few of my friends know how bad my acne depresses me but i know that i am more withdrawn the worse it is. I try to always make eye contact with guys and smile. I haven't been in a serious relationship in years but i am open to it and i'm hoping to meet the kind of guy that can look at me and see what lies deep inside. In agreeing with the OP, us acne folks can have it all, we just need to unfortunately work harder at it.
Wow, that is amazing! I love that routine for helping with low self-esteem, and it is so strong of you to fight against the low self-esteem in the ways you can. I think I might just take some of those tips for myself; it's great advice.
I'm glad you were able to relate to the original post.
And I have actually tried the mirror thing; it does wonders for how I feel about myself. Sometimes I tell myself, "I'm a beautiful, living, breathing human being worthy of love and happiness; I'm lucky to be alive, healthy, and surrounded by loving people." It really makes me feel better being optimistic.
Don't worry, RadioHeart isn't an expert in this field and shouldn't be debating something she has no idea about. RadioHeart, anxiety disorders
are linked to low self esteem.
"Fear and anxiety are the cornerstone of low self esteem. Based on early life experiences, people develop a perspective of how they fit in the world: whether they are adequate, lovable, worthy, and/or competent. If their view of themselves is negative, they go through life fearful and anxious, on guard, disappointed, anticipating the worst, and unable to relax until they recover from this devastating issue of low self esteem. This anxiety is extreme and permeates everything in the persons life including the ability to make sound decisions, the ability to maintain ambition, the ability to bounce back after disappointments, the persons basic emotional stability, the persons sustainability, the persons energy, the persons ability to learn from his mistakes, the persons openness to developing new skills, the persons ability to be introspective."
"Social anxiety disorder is associated with a number of other problems including low self-esteem, poor body image, depression, and substance abuse problems."
"Anxiety disorders can further cause low self-esteem, lead to substance abuse, and isolation from ones friends and family."
Do research from a RELIABLE source next time, not just any random page you find from Google. I would be wary of taking any advice from RadioHeart considering the sources she gets her information.
Of course I'm not an expert in anxiety, I told you before how I have no personal experience with anxiety, which is why I didn't include it in the first post. I was not trying to "leave anybody out", as you so rudely assumed before.
And you're right, I shouldn't be debating about anxiety, and neither should you. This is a low self esteem post, not an anxiety discussion.
It was a medical website; forgive me for mistaking is as a reliable source.
And I stand corrected; anxiety can lead to low self-esteem. However, anxiety is not synonymous with low self-esteem, like you hinted at earlier when you were upset with me for leaving out people with anxiety in a low self-esteem post. Keep in mind this topic was meant to discuss self-esteem and body image (something I am personally familiar in struggling with), as opposed to anxiety (which is something I have never had to suffer).
I can not stress this enough: Expecting me to understand something I have never experienced is difficult, and expecting me to discuss it and give advice on it is even more so. If you want to add something for people with anxiety and low self-esteem, be my guest, but if you want to malign me for not including people with anxiety in my original post (which was the root of this entire conversation), it's still not my place to give personal advice on something I do not have personal experience with.
>>>>>If we are products of our environment, how can we choose what kind of effect something has on us? Abstract doctrines aside, people, who don't function in society, do exist. Do you really think people choose for pain, suffering and distress in their lives? You know that those things are negative. Why would anyone choose for those things if it is really a choice? If it is a choice, why does the DSM exist in the first place?
I think as human beings, we have the ability to chose -to a certain extent- the effect the something has on us. For example, if somebody has acne (let's say it's caused by genetic factors), it can not be helped. You certainly did not chose to have acne; however, you can chose whether or not to go out and attempt being social, as opposed to attempting to isolate yourself because of your low self confidence. This is a decision you can make for yourself; nobody is forcing you to go out, and nobody is forcing you to stay inside. It's completely up to you- a conscious decision. You may find it easier to isolate yourself, but you can also chose to get out there despite the struggle and try to fight the low self-esteem in any way you can. The hardest battle you fight is the one against yourself, but it is your choice whether or not it is a battle worth fighting for. Sorry for the cheesy metaphor, but metaphors help me put something into a physical understanding.
Very true to life post! Acne is only a small part of us and our mind unfortunately blows it up into the end all and be all. The society that we live in doesn't exactly help things either. But it is not easy for many of us to just STOP thinking this way. It's taken us years to get into this mindset and it may take years to get out. Practical suggestions that i've heard and i try to do:
Tell myself i love myself, acne and all first thing in the morning
limit mirror time
Find other parts of my body that i love and acknowledge it (my hair is it for me)
Take Care of my body (exercise, eat right, keep my stress levels low)
Go out even when i don't feel like it or my acne holds me back
Think of all the good i have in my life - good people, good food, blessings in life
In regards to dating, very few of my friends know how bad my acne depresses me but i know that i am more withdrawn the worse it is. I try to always make eye contact with guys and smile. I haven't been in a serious relationship in years but i am open to it and i'm hoping to meet the kind of guy that can look at me and see what lies deep inside. In agreeing with the OP, us acne folks can have it all, we just need to unfortunately work harder at it.
Wow, that is amazing! I love that routine for helping with low self-esteem, and it is so strong of you to fight against the low self-esteem in the ways you can. I think I might just take some of those tips for myself; it's great advice.
I'm glad you were able to relate to the original post.
And I have actually tried the mirror thing; it does wonders for how I feel about myself. Sometimes I tell myself, "I'm a beautiful, living, breathing human being worthy of love and happiness; I'm lucky to be alive, healthy, and surrounded by loving people." It really makes me feel better being optimistic.
I do not have low self esteem. You should stop making assumptions about other people. I am going to tell you what I am. I am paranoid-schizoid. I can't handle social interaction very well. It stresses me out completely. I do not choose to be like that. It is actually absolutely horrible to be like me. I am very disturbed and I am bothering myself, but I can't help it. I have been made like that due to neglect and bullying. It is in the DSM.
I do not have low self esteem. You should stop making assumptions about other people. I am going to tell you what I am. I am paranoid-schizoid. I can't handle social interaction very well. It stresses me out completely. I do not choose to be like that. It is actually absolutely horrible to be like me. I am very disturbed and I am bothering myself, but I can't help it. I have been made like that due to neglect and bullying. It is in the DSM.
That's not what I meant at all; I was using the term "you" in the previous statement as a hypothetical for somebody with genetic acne; I was not literally meaning you. I intended to give a perspective of the situation of the person with acne; I was not trying to tell you what your own life situation is like, I hardly even know you.
Looking back on it (I re-read it), I can see where you might have mistook it for just that. It was horribly worded on my part, my apologies.
I'm sorry you were bullied, I really am. I've been there too; it's terrible; nobody likes being cast out or being hurt, be it mentally or physically. But I don't think being bullied and neglected means you have no choice but to turn into somebody with a mental disorder. I have been bullied in the past as well, and I think it has helped me accept the fact that not everyone will like me and that's okay. Bullying has also taught me how to deal with bullies; instead of fighting back, sometimes it is better to just let it go and move on (at least that's what worked for me; holding on to grudges and resentment didn't make me feel any happier whatsoever). I honestly think how you react to things (like bullying) depends on what kind of person you are. I know people in real life who have had tragic/unfortunate pasts, yet have still managed to become mentally healthy people. Everyone reacts different to a situation emotionally, in my opinion. The question is 'How will you handle [the experience] and what will you learn from it?'
Sorry if I'm not making much sense, I'm really, really tired right now.
EDIT: It's 3 AM, for crying out loud, I'll probably have to edit this better later.
People with social anxiety will not come off as confident, and you said confidence is important, so you are leaving them out. What do you suggest for somene that has social anxiety and acne?
What do I suggest for people with social anxiety? I would most likely advise them to see a therapist/psychologist that specializes in treating people with social anxiety. I mean, if they are suffering from SA, it would be better for them to consult a professional, who can create a specialized plan for them.
In all honesty, who cares if she does?
This is an acne forum, not a mental health issues forum. Her advice is applicable to most people, and that's all it really matters.
So people on here can't have mental health issues and acne? So it's ok to discriminate against other people different from you?
Also, by using your logic you can say "this is an acne forum, not a dating forum" so what's the point of posting this topic?
No, it does not mean that. Most people here do not explicitly make a case for mental health issues because they do not have the experience/knowledge to productively comment on the mentally ill. It's not exclusion nor discrimination. This forum actually forbids serious self-harm and suicidal posts for the exact same reason.
The point of posting this topic was because most people can relate to dating and have the experience/knowledge to productively comment on dating, unlike mental health issues, which is a far more technical topic.
I wasn't trying to defend her. I just don't understand why there's such a backlash regarding mental health issues in an acne forum.
If she went on socialanxietysupport and told people to "be confident", then yes, I would agree with you that it's backhanded advice. But she shouldn't have to make an explicit point of including mentally ill people on an acne forum. Her lack of doing so wouldn't be exclusionary, as handling mental health was never the point of this site, regardless of whether certain people here actually are struggling with those problems.
What do I suggest for people with social anxiety? I would most likely advise them to see a therapist/psychologist that specializes in treating people with social anxiety. I mean, if they are suffering from SA, it would be better for them to consult a professional, who can create a specialized plan for them.
It's sad that you leave out people that may never appear confident because of mental illnesses.
How am I 'leaving them out' by advising them to see somebody more experience with anxiety than I?
TheBigBernard, it is nice that you're defending RadioHeart's topic because I understand that she can't defend it herself. But yes, it is exclusion. You can't just give advice and expect everyone to agree with it. And people on here have said that they have mental health issues. You're basically trying to tell me what people can or can't comment on.
Now this is just pathetic; you have resorted to personal slander. This isn't Mean Girls, you don't throw shade in an attempt to make your argument popular.
The fact that you have resorted to this tactic it quite childish: what were you hoping to accomplish by mentioning I 'can't defend' myself? How is that even relevant to anxiety? Other than you just wanting to drag personal slanders into this, I see no reasonable motive for you to include my ability to defend myself. However, my burst-to-the-ego is not the focus of this...The only matter in which that degrading line of yours even helped, was that it demonstrated to me what seems to be your level of maturity in this.
First of all, it is true, I did not reply sooner (not because I am 'defenseless', mind you), but because I am actually busy with the real world. Believe it or not, I do not constantly check my notifications online- it is simply not a priority of mine, I'd rather practice my instrument or finish my summer reading list than stare into the bright light of a computer screen, typing up an easy I feel is necessary to fully explain myself to a complete stranger- which I admit, is ridiculous in itself. So excuse me for not replying to your messages as soon as you post them. That must mean I'm 'defenseless' and have nothing to say. (Note the sarcasm) Has it ever crossed your mind perhaps I am busy with real life? Perhaps I don't have internet access at home? Perhaps I am not able to contact you quickly in order to 'defend' myself? These are important things to take into consideration; not everyone is constantly online.
Second of all, seeing as you have involved my personal characteristics, I feel bothered enough about this point to retaliate furthermore. Feel free to skip this because this will just be a basic evaluation of what I have understood of your argument so far: You started this argument on the basis of anxiety. You saw how arguing for anxiety in general didn't work (some anxieties have little do with self-esteem) so you changed it to 'social anxiety' in specific. This wasn't working for you either, so -in order to gain popularity in your point- you changed it to arguing for all mental illnesses, as you have demonstrated in some recent posts. (I will quote them if you do not believe me, it simply takes more effort than I am willing to waste at the time.) Then when somebody challenged your argument, and as a last resort, you changed it to how dating wasn't even relevant to acne. Not only is your argument weak in the sense that you keep changing your basis, you have also managed to include personal 'remarks' about me. But your frequent attempt of trying to find a favorable conclusion in this 'debate' reminds me of a person falling from a plane, quickly trying to grasp something -anything- to avoid hitting the hard ground; such as branches of a tree. But when that branch snaps under the pressure, you desperately reach for another branch, and another, and another...
...I think I have a real problem with using metaphors. But I digress.
Your shifting basis is not the only thing that has been bothering me about your argument. You fail to take my emotions and schedules into consideration. I do not have all the time of day to reply to you, nor am I able to whenever I want to. Perhaps I am getting tired of this argument and am losing the will to reply. It is like trying to argue with a child; instead of learning new ideas and concepts, it is just bothersome and seems to drag on forever. It consists of me repeating my points in an attempt to make you listen. Like I have previously stated, I do not have experience with anxiety, how can I advise someone with anxiety? I put this in bold, because this is the specific idea I have been desperately been trying to communicate, but you have been ignoring it. Let me repeat myself, I do not have experience with anxiety, how can I advise someone with anxiety? Your relentless pestering, constantly telling me to write something for people with anxiety, when I have already explained why I can not, is not only bothersome, it is borderline ignorant. You are not a child, and scolding you like this is just embarrassing, for the both of us! I am in no position to tell you what to say or do, yet somehow, I feel obliged to. I thought I was debating with someone who was respectful and knowledgeable, but your statements have lead me to believe otherwise. When I told you I was unable to advise people with social anxiety, I even allowed you to add something for them to resolve the conflict and not make them feel left out, and you did not. Instead, you completely ignored my offer and continued your rant about me purposely leaving them out! If you did not write anything to help those with anxiety, how do you expect me to? Once again, what qualifications do I have to advise people with social anxiety? I do not know what they are going through! It is not a difficult concept to grasp!
****Upon rereading this, I want to say I'm sorry for being so condescending; keep in mind I was extremely riled up by your comments. But sugar coating things was never my intention. If I have been ignorant on my part, I apologize, but even my ignorance gives you no right to be ignorant back. You're not a child; learn to present yourself in a respectful and understanding manner. You have presented yourself -and your argument- in an offensive and scathing manner, and I have responded to that.
I am an actual person behind the computer screen, with genuine emotions and thoughts and real-life schedule; I make mistakes, I can admit I do. But I am not here to take complaints from people who fail to acknowledge that I may have different opinions than them. If you have an objection to my original post, feel free to share it, there is such a thing as freedom of speech, I will appreciate constructive criticism. However, constructive criticism is not equivalent to demeaning someone. I have already explained to you why I can not include a special section for people with anxiety; it is up to you to respect my decision and stop insisting otherwise. If you want to add something for people with anxiety on your own, you are more than welcome to! I'm not going to stop you, in fact, I encourage you to add anything you believe will help people with anxiety. It would be great of you to post something on this thread that was intended to help someone's mental stability, not prove your own point.
RadioHeart just leave things be. It's the Internet: battle of the egos here. You're not going to please everybody.
A forum is not really an avenue to debate facts or come to agreements. For most people it's just an emotional fix - like flipping through TV channels. TemperateCent made his points; I've made mine. I disagree with him still, but I care as much about convincing him as I do about Sunday soap operas (read: none whatsoever), and he probably feels the same way.
Confidence generally comes through with or without acne (within reasonable tolerances.) Many popular kids in my high school, for example, had bad acne. Many jocks on the football and rugby teams had it. They were still alpha-dicks, they still threw half-eaten apples at unsuspecting 9th graders during lunch period. They still got cream-of-the-crop pussy.
This is especially true for guys: if you give the impression that you're the kind of guy girls want, then GIRLS WILL RUN TO YOU regardless of whether you're spotty or not. Granted, you do have to act like a bit of a dick. So you have a choice: be true to your WoW geek roots and sulk in sadness every Friday night with lotion all over your hands, or become the very antithesis of a decent human being and get all the girls. lol. It's comically simple.
I'm just pissed that it took me 4 years of HS and another 4 years of engineering school to figure this shit out. I'm mostly clear now, but I could have had so much more fun even when I wasn't!
Oh, and another thing: PICK AN ARTSY MAJOR IN UNIVERSITY (if you're a guy.) Pick computer science or engineering if you're a girl; those majors are a sausage fest with tons of thirsty and socially awkward guys. Telling it like it is.. don't hate
TemperateCent:
I can't help it; I like to rant when something upsets me, hence the essay-long replies. ^^
So can we agree to disagree then?
TheBigBernard:
Yeah, I just wanted to get that out of my system. xD
The strange thing is that I feel a whole lot better now,
And uh, thanks for the reality check there. I'll take the responsibility for leading that on. I'll try my best to avoid that next time. ^^
CamusWasHalfRight:
I think guys underestimate the importance of confidence as well. The majority of girls like guys with confidence. c:
But I don't know if acting like a dick will get you very popular with the girls... It seems more like cockiness than confidence to me.
Perhaps it does work, but just not on every girl... After all, I don't think I would feel very attracted to a jerk who likes to throw apples at kids. O.o
Confidence generally comes through with or without acne (within reasonable tolerances.) Many popular kids in my high school, for example, had bad acne. Many jocks on the football and rugby teams had it. They were still alpha-dicks, they still threw half-eaten apples at unsuspecting 9th graders during lunch period. They still got cream-of-the-crop pussy.
This is especially true for guys: if you give the impression that you're the kind of guy girls want, then GIRLS WILL RUN TO YOU regardless of whether you're spotty or not. Granted, you do have to act like a bit of a dick. So you have a choice: be true to your WoW geek roots and sulk in sadness every Friday night with lotion all over your hands, or become the very antithesis of a decent human being and get all the girls. lol. It's comically simple.
I'm just pissed that it took me 4 years of HS and another 4 years of engineering school to figure this shit out. I'm mostly clear now, but I could have had so much more fun even when I wasn't!
Oh, and another thing: PICK AN ARTSY MAJOR IN UNIVERSITY (if you're a guy.) Pick computer science or engineering if you're a girl; those majors are a sausage fest with tons of thirsty and socially awkward guys. Telling it like it is.. don't hate
This only has validity provided you have the height, facial aesthetics, and low juvenile hairline to pull it off
(I can see in your profile pic that you're blessed with dark hair and a low juvenile hairline in addition to olive skin)
You wont see a guy with a long face, rosacea , a big/broad forehead and male pattern baldness with a cute girl.
It's just like how most "jocks" have a naturally robust frame, tall, with broad shoulders.
CamusWasHalfRight:
... Perhaps it does work, but just not on every girl... After all, I don't think I would feel very attracted to a jerk who likes to throw apples at kids. O.o
haha, well, i wouldn't have believed it without seeing it first-hand. i think it's largely an evolutionary thing. even the quiet girls secretly have a thing for cocky guys, so it isn't just the stereotypical female bullies who are attracted to that type.
it's up to the individual to decide whether to place more weight on sexual success than on decency and principles. can't really blame the guys who've taken the cocky route. whatever floats your boat.