PLEASE EVALUATE MY ACNE SCAR PLAN AND LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

Started by Amp2695 Amp2695

97 posts in this topic

I have severe acne scarring, i have received 3 co2 smartxide dot laser (i dont know how deep) back in 2015 when i was 19, due to work and school i have ignored my scarsuntil now. I have decided 2018 will be the year i will get a bulk of tx done ( i know 100% improvemnt is not real so spare me that comment). Money is not the problem nor is time. Thankfully i have a well paying job where i interact with practically no one so being swollen is not a problem. I have about 6 months off from school, anyway here is my plan tell me if it is a good idea:

Feb 26: intracel+ tca cross + prp. ...DONE

March  8: mild subcision + saline subcision + super mild fraxel over subcision....DONE

March 30: infini 2 w prp+ mild fraxel... DONE

April 30: infini 3 w prp

June 7: infini 4 maybe w prp...MAYBE

June 29: sciton profractional

At this point ill see where i am... if not content i will get another sciton profractional around September 2018. And then finish wih fillers around December.
 i have posted this plan to realself and have not gotten responses...pretty much i want to know if spacigs are good, and if this may be too much for my skin to handle or if it is ok. Like i said time is not a problem... i am done with the first 2 steps already. And have all my infini scheduled per the dates above.
Also ...most of my scars dissapear when i slightly stretch skin.. if this helps at all.


thank you for your time.

 

PicsArt_02-12-06.47.46.jpg

PicsArt_02-12-06.47.13.jpg

Edited by Amp2695
Misspelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your treatments are not spaced out right,your skin needs at least 30 days to heal and be normal and then your collagen production can continue for months so a good time to wait at minimum could be round 6 weeks as the magic is in the healing,the longer you heal the better the results and you avoid any complications from over treating areas and it causes more damage.
:)

agelessfrost reacted to this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Quadboy said:

Your treatments are not spaced out right,your skin needs at least 30 days to heal and be normal and then your collagen production can continue for months so a good time to wait at minimum could be round 6 weeks as the magic is in the healing,the longer you heal the better the results and you avoid any complications from over treating areas and it causes more damage.
:)

This is where i get somewhat confused bc derms such as davin lim and steven weiner say it is now ok to do infini tx every 4 weeks. But ill see how i recover from this second infini, im still swollen. But yea i may space evrything out to 5 weeks instead of 4 weeks. As far as waiting about 4 weeks to get sciton profractional, you think thats ok? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Amp2695 said:

March  8: mild subcision + saline subcision + super mild fraxel over subcision....DONE


First, I'm in agreement with @Quadboy. Too many treatments too soon can be counterproductive. I would say even 6 weeks is too soon. The reason is your collagen doesn't just pop and then stop. It slowly (and I mean slowass slow) grows over time. However, it's also very finicky and sensitive, and any disruption can have a negative effect on its production.

Second, I don't know what you mean by "mild subcision", but you need an aggressive subcision. Here I'm referring to Nokor in particular. All the fibrous scars tethered to the bottom need to be severed. Moreover, I have no idea why you're getting so many lasers. Your main concern should be to fill the pits as much as possible before sanding the surface with lasers and peels. You work from bottom-up, not top-down. Well, others could chime in but that's my 2-cents.

Anyway, good luck going forward.
Scarsarejustmemories reacted to this

There is no life without water. Use it to your advantage.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it’s great that you have the resources to repair the damage from acne and bring your skin to what I bet will be fantastic final results!  It’s already looking pretty damn good!  This isn’t my area of expertise, so I can sit on the sidelines and cheer you on! XoXo 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:

First, I'm in agreement with @Quadboy. Too many treatments too soon can be counterproductive. I would say even 6 weeks is too soon. The reason is your collagen doesn't just pop and then stop. It slowly (and I mean slowass slow) grows over time. However, it's also very finicky and sensitive, and any disruption can have a negative effect on its production.

Second, I don't know what you mean by "mild subcision", but you need an aggressive subcision. Here I'm referring to Nokor in particular. All the fibrous scars tethered to the bottom need to be severed. Moreover, I have no idea why you're getting so many lasers. Your main concern should be to fill the pits as much as possible before sanding the surface with lasers and peels. You work from bottom-up, not top-down. Well, others could chime in but that's my 2-cents.

Anyway, good luck going forward.
I see what you mean I'm going to try and space them out a bit more further. by mild subcision i meant it was just on one scar on the right side, and it was done with an 18G NOKOR. but i didn't really swell up but then again it was just on one depressed scar.
Well the lasers were back in 2015 when i was 19 (i had 3 in one whole year), when i didn't know much about scars. But now I'm doing the rounds of infini with prp, and after 4 I'm going to see if i need sciton pro fractional.

Do you think thats a good idea doing the 4 infini w prp and then waiting a few months and then doing sciton pro fractional?

how would you order the treatments? I've also read on your other post that you received infini as well, how spaced out apart did you do yours? and at what depth?
thanks 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Amp2695 said:

But now I'm doing the rounds of infini with prp, and after 4 I'm going to see if i need sciton pro fractional.

Do you think thats a good idea doing the 4 infini w prp and then waiting a few months and then doing sciton pro fractional?


I believe Infini is better for mild to medium scars; subcision for medium to severe. Basically, the idea is to plump up the pit as much as possible: 1) from severe to medium (subcision), 2) from medium to mild (RF microneedling). So I believe it's better you start with subcision + filler until the scars are improved, then follow up with infini. Wait at least 3 months between treatments, despite the fact that most doctors will push you to get treatments every 6 weeks.

I don't know much about the laser you mention. Only thing I know about Sciton is they have a hybrid laser. I believe, however, you need a fully ablative Erbium laser, which is similar to a deep peel. This is a more suitable approach for smoothing out boxcar edges.

Experts like @Obi wan and @beautifulambition can fill you in with more advice.

 
1 hour ago, Amp2695 said:

I've also read on your other post that you received infini as well, how spaced out apart did you do yours? and at what depth?


Almost 3 months out with 2.5 on the cheeks and 1.75 elsewhere (I think :smileys_n_people_38::) ).


  Edited by Sirius Lee

There is no life without water. Use it to your advantage.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your case reminds me of this gentleman. 
 


He has low density 5-7% CO@ at the highest power over his scarred areas. 

Ok back to the plan.
Scars are not per device, not per what looks good. They are off a customized plan on what you have going on. You have heavy textural box car and rolling scars. I have seen very good results with Nokor subcision, you need 3 of them. I see above you had done some already but not clear if it's with filler. You would follow this with rf microneedling. Having 4 prp - infini sessions isn't going to change fibrotric scarring. IT needs to be in combo on different levels.

Your pushing your scar treatments way to close together! The guys advised you above of the same thing. The body takes minimum 3 months to heal between treatments, so why are we pushing treatments every month. Dr's do this to make quick money and do combo package treatments. This isn't best for your benefit. 

How will you know what is working and what isn't if you do it so close together. Yes you can do one month treatments but only at home DIY type lighter treatments. 

I know Weiner and Lim do quicker procedures but even they will tell you if you have time it is in your best interest to have healing time. I have seen alot of combo treatments go wrong. Emer in Hollywood is Famous for this. 

Collagen as Sirius / Quad already said is extremely fragile and slow to develop. Do to much and you loose all benefits of regeneration. 

I would do more sub with a norkor, perhaps your Dr was not aggressive enough if those are the results in the pic above. I would do filler as well. I would then worry about Infini and prp face masks. 

There is no rush space things out.

Do NOT rush the erbium resurfacing or you will need several and not get optimal results. 

There is fat deficiency missing in the pics above, why wasn't HA filler done?

You need aggressive subcision, not mild subcision. When you say mild was this Nokor or just a needle?

Fraxel will do nothing for you

Move the April Appointment to end of May. (3 months apart).

Start using Retin a or tretinorin known as differin at night


Your next Apt would be August for Infini and you can do fully ablative erbium resurfacing with this treatment if you wish, since you have done several already. They need to go deep enough under your pitting or you will need more than one resurfacing. A deep peel is also a option and has less side effects.

If the above does not do well... (optional) CO2 as I mentioned above & another peel.

Oh yes Sirius skin is not your skin, so comparing power settings of Infini and depth is pointless. You need to be treated based off your skin. Your Aesthetic Tech sounds like she knows what's up and talks to Weiner - was trained. You don't want to over push the power, she is correct with what she said about safety and spreading out the energy. Higher is not more beneficial. More passes is more beneficial than more power. 

Oh yes I have seen you post on all the Infini Posts, if they are not within the last 6 months, the original OP's won't respond as they moved on after treatment.

BA

Read more in the FAQ below, subcision, filler, and peels, etc...

 

Amp2695 reacted to this

** Please "Like" my response above; Capturedwdn.JPG  As a volunteer encouragement helps! |::wiggle:
[Thank You For Your Kind Understanding - I reply to individual Private Messages addressing your concerns as soon as I can, helping many people a day, please be patient.]

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 :smileys_n_people_116: CLICKABLE LINK: OFFICIAL ACNE SCAR SOLUTIONS; Q&A / FAQ :smileys_n_people_108:
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
1. SUCCESSFUL TREATMENT THREADS                                                                 7. HYPERTROPHIC / KELOID (RAISED SCARS)
2. WHAT IS ACNE & PREVENTING SCARS                                                              8. SUBCISION
3. DIFFERENT TYPES OF SCARRING                                                                      
9. FILLER FOR SCARS
4. TREATING SCARS AT HOME                                                                              10. LASER
5. SKIN: RED (PIE) BROWN (PIH), WHITE MARKS,                                               11. MICRONEEDLING
     TEXTURE, LARGE PORES,  DRYNESS, & COVERING UP SCARS                    12. TCA CROSS FOR ICEPICK SCARS & ACID PEELS                       
6. PUNCH GRAFTING & EXCISION                                                                        13.
LIST OF ACNE SCAR TREATMENT DOCTORS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, beautifulambition said:

Your case reminds me of this gentleman. 
 


He has low density 5-7% CO@ at the highest power over his scarred areas. 

Ok back to the plan.
Scars are not per device, not per what looks good. They are off a customized plan on what you have going on. You have heavy textural box car and rolling scars. I have seen very good results with Nokor subcision, you need 3 of them. I see above you had done some already but not clear if it's with filler. You would follow this with rf microneedling. Having 4 prp - infini sessions isn't going to change fibrotric scarring. IT needs to be in combo on different levels.

Your pushing your scar treatments way to close together! The guys advised you above of the same thing. The body takes minimum 3 months to heal between treatments, so why are we pushing treatments every month. Dr's do this to make quick money and do combo package treatments. This isn't best for your benefit. 

How will you know what is working and what isn't if you do it so close together. Yes you can do one month treatments but only at home DIY type lighter treatments. 

I know Weiner and Lim do quicker procedures but even they will tell you if you have time it is in your best interest to have healing time. I have seen alot of combo treatments go wrong. Emer in Hollywood is Famous for this. 

Collagen as Sirius / Quad already said is extremely fragile and slow to develop. Do to much and you loose all benefits of regeneration. 

I would do more sub with a norkor, perhaps your Dr was not aggressive enough if those are the results in the pic above. I would do filler as well. I would then worry about Infini and prp face masks. 

There is no rush space things out.

Do NOT rush the erbium resurfacing or you will need several and not get optimal results. 

There is fat deficiency missing in the pics above, why wasn't HA filler done?

You need aggressive subcision, not mild subcision. When you say mild was this Nokor or just a needle?

Fraxel will do nothing for you

Move the April Appointment to end of May. (3 months apart).

Start using Retin a or tretinorin known as differin at night


Your next Apt would be August for Infini and you can do fully ablative erbium resurfacing with this treatment if you wish, since you have done several already. They need to go deep enough under your pitting or you will need more than one resurfacing. A deep peel is also a option and has less side effects.

If the above does not do well... (optional) CO2 as I mentioned above & another peel.

Oh yes Sirius skin is not your skin, so comparing power settings of Infini and depth is pointless. You need to be treated based off your skin. Your Aesthetic Tech sounds like she knows what's up and talks to Weiner - was trained. You don't want to over push the power, she is correct with what she said about safety and spreading out the energy. Higher is not more beneficial. More passes is more beneficial than more power. 

Oh yes I have seen you post on all the Infini Posts, if they are not within the last 6 months, the original OP's won't respond as they moved on after treatment.

BA

Read more in the FAQ below, subcision, filler, and peels, etc...

 

ok i def see what you mean, i tweaked my plan a little with what you guys have told me, let me know what you think...ok so right now I'm day 3 post op from my 2nd infini rf.

May 7th: Aggressive subcision

Mid july: infini #3 w prp

Mid september: infini # 4 w prp

Around december depending where i am at ... sciton pro fractional 

If i get a filler like HA that lasts about 2 years, wouldn't rf micro needling and laser affect the filler? so why get filler first and then have to wait 2 years to do anything else? Oh heres the other thing about subcision..most of my scars disappear with the slightest, slightest stretching does this mean perhaps subcision is not necessary, even my derm told me only one of my scars on my left only needed it (hence me calling it a "mild subcision, which was done w 18G NOKOR, he didn't see the point in going hard on the whole cheek if only one is tethered). THANKS YOU GUYS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@Amp2695 Doing sub with filler acts as a spacer to heal and create collagen. Further you get stimulation with the rf needling. No your filler will not go away. Your doing erbium resurfacing and this is on the skin surface layers. Also your not doing "profractional" your doing fully abaltive deep erbium resurfacing. No grids or fractions. If you can stretch your skin build up the filler in your jawline and under your eye on the boney arch aka orbital rim this will stretch the skin and make it look better, as well as sub and filler to the pits. 

 
Fluffykitten and Amp2695 reacted to this

** Please "Like" my response above; Capturedwdn.JPG  As a volunteer encouragement helps! |::wiggle:
[Thank You For Your Kind Understanding - I reply to individual Private Messages addressing your concerns as soon as I can, helping many people a day, please be patient.]

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 :smileys_n_people_116: CLICKABLE LINK: OFFICIAL ACNE SCAR SOLUTIONS; Q&A / FAQ :smileys_n_people_108:
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
1. SUCCESSFUL TREATMENT THREADS                                                                 7. HYPERTROPHIC / KELOID (RAISED SCARS)
2. WHAT IS ACNE & PREVENTING SCARS                                                              8. SUBCISION
3. DIFFERENT TYPES OF SCARRING                                                                      
9. FILLER FOR SCARS
4. TREATING SCARS AT HOME                                                                              10. LASER
5. SKIN: RED (PIE) BROWN (PIH), WHITE MARKS,                                               11. MICRONEEDLING
     TEXTURE, LARGE PORES,  DRYNESS, & COVERING UP SCARS                    12. TCA CROSS FOR ICEPICK SCARS & ACID PEELS                       
6. PUNCH GRAFTING & EXCISION                                                                        13.
LIST OF ACNE SCAR TREATMENT DOCTORS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Amp2695 said:

If i get a filler like HA that lasts about 2 years, wouldn't rf micro needling and laser affect the filler? so why get filler first and then have to wait 2 years to do anything else? Oh heres the other thing about subcision..most of my scars disappear with the slightest, slightest stretching does this mean perhaps subcision is not necessary



1) It's been shown that deeper fillers like Voluma, which lasts up to 2 years, are not affected by Infini.

2) With regards to stretching the skin, this is not the best method to determine tethering. Scars are usually tethered to dermis and muscle, and when the skin stretched, you also end up pulling on the dermis and muscle. Instead of pulling it back, gently nudge the skin forward from behind the scar and see if it puckers down. If you see a large wrinkle forming, that's a sure sign of tethering.
Amp2695 reacted to this

There is no life without water. Use it to your advantage.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, beautifulambition said:
@Amp2695 Doing sub with filler acts as a spacer to heal and create collagen. Further you get stimulation with the rf needling. No your filler will not go away. Your doing erbium resurfacing and this is on the skin surface layers. Also your not doing "profractional" your doing fully abaltive deep erbium resurfacing. No grids or fractions. If you can stretch your skin build up the filler in your jawline and under your eye on the boney arch aka orbital rim this will stretch the skin and make it look better, as well as sub and filler to the pits. 

 
i see.  What do you think of my "Tweaked" plan though. 

may 7th : aggressive subcision

mid july: 3rd infini w prp 

mid september: 4th infini w prp

december: sciton profractional.

i know im being annoying its just i want to get the most bang for my buck and time.
4 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:


1) It's been shown that deeper fillers like Voluma, which lasts up to 2 years, are not affected by Infini.

2) With regards to stretching the skin, this is not the best method to determine tethering. Scars are usually tethered to dermis and muscle, and when the skin stretched, you also end up pulling on the dermis and muscle. Instead of pulling it back, gently nudge the skin forward from behind the scar and see if it puckers down. If you see a large wrinkle forming, that's a sure sign of tethering.
Wow thanks ive never heard of that method you mentioned to check tethered scars, but it makes sense. Anyway you say you have received 2 infinis, 3 months apart, how much % improvement and how long after your first infini tx did you see these improvements??  Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Amp2695 said:

Anyway you say you have received 2 infinis, 3 months apart, how much % improvement and how long after your first infini tx did you see these improvements??


Subjectively speaking, I feel I got about 50% improvement. The cheeks, the area with the most meat, responded really well (60%-ish). Temples and lower jaw, where there isn't that much collagen, about 30%.

It took about 6 weeks to see the change for the better. Coincidentally, 6 week interval is what the doctors usually use to push the next treatment on their patients because they know of this fact. That's why I keep telling others not get suckered into getting the next treatment every 6 weeks. You wanna wait until the collagen production is at its peak, which takes about 3 months.

There is no life without water. Use it to your advantage.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/1/2018 at 8:47 PM, Amp2695 said:

Feb 26: intracel+ tca cross + prp. ...DONE
 

Hello there. Hope you don't mind me asking you about TCA Cross.  I'm thinking about getting it on my forehead on a few icepick scars. My dermatologist said expect to be very red for 6 weeks and beyond, and that I'll need to do it 3+ times. She said one of the nurses they did months ago was still super red. Because of this (and wondering if it even works) I question whether to even do it. I notice you don't have any redness at all, and it was fairly recent. What was your experience with this? Was there any downside, did it work? Would you do TCA cross again? 
Good luck with your treatments!  I don't know where your skin started but it really looks pretty good to me at this point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, totalbeautyaddict said:
Hello there. Hope you don't mind me asking you about TCA Cross.  I'm thinking about getting it on my forehead on a few icepick scars. My dermatologist said expect to be very red for 6 weeks and beyond, and that I'll need to do it 3+ times. She said one of the nurses they did months ago was still super red. Because of this (and wondering if it even works) I question whether to even do it. I notice you don't have any redness at all, and it was fairly recent. What was your experience with this? Was there any downside, did it work? Would you do TCA cross again? 
Good luck with your treatments!  I don't know where your skin started but it really looks pretty good to me at this point. 
Actually those pics of me are before i got anything done. As far as tca cross its been a month since i got it the spots are still reddish and one or two spots seem "wider but shallower" (if that makes sense). Supposedly this is kind of common and after a while they start filling in. RN i feel like its too early to evaluate whether it worked or not, I'm going to give it one and a half more months maybe two before deciding if it worked for me. Just remind me to keep you updated. I think maybe around may 30 is a good day to say whether it was worth it or not. it  was done w 100%.
User650286 reacted to this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:

Subjectively speaking, I feel I got about 50% improvement. The cheeks, the area with the most meat, responded really well (60%-ish). Temples and lower jaw, where there isn't that much collagen, about 30%.

It took about 6 weeks to see the change for the better. Coincidentally, 6 week interval is what the doctors usually use to push the next treatment on their patients because they know of this fact. That's why I keep telling others not get suckered into getting the next treatment every 6 weeks. You wanna wait until the collagen production is at its peak, which takes about 3 months.
I see, those are great results from just 2 tx, do you mind me asking how old you are? i know the younger you are the better collagen responds. Im 22 hopefully it responds fast. Also you seem to be very knowledgeable on subcisions, how often could/ should one get subcisions? every two months-3 months?
Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@Sirius Lee I see you have a new take on treatment. This does not coincide with histology of Infini, and subcision. IF one did all their subcision pre Infini they would be waiting a loooooooong time for filler to wear out which is one subcises again. We are talking about a year gap if not more after the first treatment. This is pleny of time to treat with rf miconeedling before it's time to top up. You could probably get 2 or 3 rf needling sessions in that time, ... sure one can save the last rf needing session for their 2nd or 3rd subcision if they wish or simply do a 4th rf needling. I have noticed no difference treating patients with one sub w/ filler and doing rf needling and doing all the subs pre- rf needling. In fact it sometimes can have the reverse effect. When you rf needle after all subs you don't get that final boost of filler and sub before the peel. Dr Lim also follows this thinking doing sub w/filler, infini, and his prp mask and repeating. Remember the definition of subcision is releasing tethers and.... the act of making a pocket (filler is the spacer), so one can do this even after doing a peel for texture if they need to top up filler. 

If anything I have noticed waiting longer between rf needling gives a better result. It really is a process of looking worse and then collagen production ramps up. Many notice on a bell curve the biggest % of improvement on their 2nd treatment. The same is usually said with subcision. OF course some people have very severe scarring and they need more sessions of everything to get more modest % of improvements.

@Amp2695 I am pretty easy going, if you want to do treatments every week that's cool. The biggest improvements we have seen with patients is 3 months minimum and 6 months is when collagen production has completed on avg. Some have no time and I understand this. The optimal thing is 3 months. I have also seen counterproductive (those who come and say things are not working) because they do treatments too often, mega treatments together, or those who are in the healing phase and have no evaluated what's going on. Often these things looks worse before better, minus the swelling of course that is pure bliss as it can look great. Dr's love to stack treatments as Sirius said every 6 weeks because of swelling, they want to keep the face in a swollen state where you can be deceived. Same with Laser 
Amp2695 reacted to this

** Please "Like" my response above; Capturedwdn.JPG  As a volunteer encouragement helps! |::wiggle:
[Thank You For Your Kind Understanding - I reply to individual Private Messages addressing your concerns as soon as I can, helping many people a day, please be patient.]

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 :smileys_n_people_116: CLICKABLE LINK: OFFICIAL ACNE SCAR SOLUTIONS; Q&A / FAQ :smileys_n_people_108:
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
1. SUCCESSFUL TREATMENT THREADS                                                                 7. HYPERTROPHIC / KELOID (RAISED SCARS)
2. WHAT IS ACNE & PREVENTING SCARS                                                              8. SUBCISION
3. DIFFERENT TYPES OF SCARRING                                                                      
9. FILLER FOR SCARS
4. TREATING SCARS AT HOME                                                                              10. LASER
5. SKIN: RED (PIE) BROWN (PIH), WHITE MARKS,                                               11. MICRONEEDLING
     TEXTURE, LARGE PORES,  DRYNESS, & COVERING UP SCARS                    12. TCA CROSS FOR ICEPICK SCARS & ACID PEELS                       
6. PUNCH GRAFTING & EXCISION                                                                        13.
LIST OF ACNE SCAR TREATMENT DOCTORS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, beautifulambition said:
@Sirius Lee I see you have a new take on treatment. This does not coincide with histology of Infini, and subcision. IF one did all their subcision pre Infini they would be waiting a loooooooong time for filler to wear out which is one subcises again. We are talking about a year gap if not more after the first treatment. This is pleny of time to treat with rf miconeedling before it's time to top up. You could probably get 2 or 3 rf needling sessions in that time, ... sure one can save the last rf needing session for their 2nd or 3rd subcision if they wish or simply do a 4th rf needling. I have noticed no difference treating patients with one sub w/ filler and doing rf needling and doing all the subs pre- rf needling. In fact it sometimes can have the reverse effect. When you rf needle after all subs you don't get that final boost of filler and sub before the peel. Dr Lim also follows this thinking doing sub w/filler, infini, and his prp mask and repeating. Remember the definition of subcision is releasing tethers and.... the act of making a pocket (filler is the spacer), so one can do this even after doing a peel for texture if they need to top up filler. 

If anything I have noticed waiting longer between rf needling gives a better result. It really is a process of looking worse and then collagen production ramps up. Many notice on a bell curve the biggest % of improvement on their 2nd treatment. The same is usually said with subcision. OF course some people have very severe scarring and they need more sessions of everything to get more modest % of improvements.

@Amp2695 I am pretty easy going, if you want to do treatments every week that's cool. The biggest improvements we have seen with patients is 3 months minimum and 6 months is when collagen production has completed on avg. Some have no time and I understand this. The optimal thing is 3 months. I have also seen counterproductive (those who come and say things are not working) because they do treatments too often, mega treatments together, or those who are in the healing phase and have no evaluated what's going on. Often these things looks worse before better, minus the swelling of course that is pure bliss as it can look great. Dr's love to stack treatments as Sirius said every 6 weeks because of swelling, they want to keep the face in a swollen state where you can be deceived. Same with Laser 
I see. ok so i received an infinite about 5 days ago, should i get an aggressive submission around mid may, then around mid june get another infinite tx? Im trying to take your advice on starting with  a submission, but having hard time piecing everything together, i will space my infini at least 8 weeks or more apart now. I guess what im trying to assk is how to place in one or two subcisions between my infini treatments, and if that is advisable. Edited by Amp2695

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Amp2695 said:

IF one did all their subcision pre Infini they would be waiting a loooooooong time for filler to wear out which is one subcises again. We are talking about a year gap if not more after the first treatment.


If the filler hasn't worn out, why would you need to subcise the same scar again--provided that the scar hasn't sunk back down? 

Moreover, we already know that people with deep scars don't respond well to RF devices. I'm not sure how much improvement you can realistically expect to see when the scars were severe to begin with. If there's any improvement, I believe most of that would be from the filler. Of course, only way to find out for sure is by 1) getting the subcision WITHOUT the filler, 2) follow up later with Infini, 3) then make the raw comparison.

If the patient had a decent outcome from subcision, where the scars are now deemed "moderate", then I believe Infini or other RF devices are warranted. But to continue receiving Infini on deep scars would not be as effective as repeating subcision IMO. 

Again, I want to emphasize that subcision for deep scars only. Mild to moderate scars, on the other hand, respond better to Infini.

Lastly, I agree with many of the advice you spell out, especially 3 sessions of subcision and 3 sessions of Infini. I just don't think alternating between subcision and Infini (back and forth) would be as effective as receiving all 3 subcisions followed by all 3 Infini.

As always, these are merely my own opinion. 

BTW I love Dr Lim no less than you. :) 



 

5 hours ago, Amp2695 said:

In fact it sometimes can have the reverse effect. When you rf needle after all subs you don't get that final boost of filler and sub before the peel.


I believe this is when Sculptra should play a major role.


  Edited by Sirius Lee

There is no life without water. Use it to your advantage.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sirius Lee said:

If the filler hasn't worn out, why would you need to subcise the same scar again--provided that the scar hasn't sunk back down? 

Moreover, we already know that people with deep scars don't respond well to RF devices. I'm not sure how much improvement you can realistically expect to see when the scars were severe to begin with. If there's any improvement, I believe most of that would be from the filler. Of course, only way to find out for sure is by 1) getting the subcision WITHOUT the filler, 2) follow up later with Infini, 3) then make the raw comparison.

If the patient had a decent outcome from subcision, where the scars are now deemed "moderate", then I believe Infini or other RF devices are warranted. But to continue receiving Infini on deep scars would not be as effective as repeating subcision IMO. 

Again, I want to emphasize that subcision for deep scars only. Mild to moderate scars, on the other hand, respond better to Infini.

Lastly, I agree with many of the advice you spell out, especially 3 sessions of subcision and 3 sessions of Infini. I just don't think alternating between subcision and Infini (back and forth) would be as effective as receiving all 3 subcisions followed by all 3 Infini.

As always, these are merely my own opinion. 

BTW I love Dr Lim no less than you. :) 



 


I believe this is when Sculptra should play a major role.


 
thank you. So in conclusion a smart way to go would be for me to get a subcision w filler. And then a few months later continue with the remaining 2 infini treatments? (Promised myself i would get 4, ive done 2 so far, well one was an intracel ) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Amp2695 said:

So in conclusion a smart way to go would be for me to get a subcision w filler. And then a few months later continue with the remaining 2 infini treatments? (Promised myself i would get 4, ive done 2 so far, well one was an intracel ) 


You seem really rushed. If you want the most optimal result, or bang for the buck, you really should wait 3 months or longer (then evaluate).

@beautifulambition has already laid out the general road map for you to follow. That's the first thing you should look into. What I am emphasizing, on the other hand, is for you to become a little more analytical in your choice of treatments. 

Between 1 and 10, where 1 is very minor scar and 10 is the most severe, I think yours is like 6 or 7. So, if for example, you were able to bring it down to 4 or better from the first round of subcision, then you should proceed with Infini. If there's little to no improvement, which I doubt because subcision often works well for severe scars, then I suggest you continue with subcison rather than switching to Infini

All I'm saying is that Infini, from what I've seen and read, do not improve scars that are 6 and above (figuratively speaking to denote "medium to severe scar"). So why try something that is ineffective for your scar grade? Anyway, good luck and best wishes.

Signing out.


  Edited by Sirius Lee

There is no life without water. Use it to your advantage.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, beautifulambition said:
@Sirius Lee I see you have a new take on treatment. This does not coincide with histology of Infini, and subcision. IF one did all their subcision pre Infini they would be waiting a loooooooong time for filler to wear out which is one subcises again. We are talking about a year gap if not more after the first treatment. This is pleny of time to treat with rf miconeedling before it's time to top up. You could probably get 2 or 3 rf needling sessions in that time, ... sure one can save the last rf needing session for their 2nd or 3rd subcision if they wish or simply do a 4th rf needling. I have noticed no difference treating patients with one sub w/ filler and doing rf needling and doing all the subs pre- rf needling. In fact it sometimes can have the reverse effect. When you rf needle after all subs you don't get that final boost of filler and sub before the peel. Dr Lim also follows this thinking doing sub w/filler, infini, and his prp mask and repeating. Remember the definition of subcision is releasing tethers and.... the act of making a pocket (filler is the spacer), so one can do this even after doing a peel for texture if they need to top up filler. 

If anything I have noticed waiting longer between rf needling gives a better result. It really is a process of looking worse and then collagen production ramps up. Many notice on a bell curve the biggest % of improvement on their 2nd treatment. The same is usually said with subcision. OF course some people have very severe scarring and they need more sessions of everything to get more modest % of improvements.

@Amp2695 I am pretty easy going, if you want to do treatments every week that's cool. The biggest improvements we have seen with patients is 3 months minimum and 6 months is when collagen production has completed on avg. Some have no time and I understand this. The optimal thing is 3 months. I have also seen counterproductive (those who come and say things are not working) because they do treatments too often, mega treatments together, or those who are in the healing phase and have no evaluated what's going on. Often these things looks worse before better, minus the swelling of course that is pure bliss as it can look great. Dr's love to stack treatments as Sirius said every 6 weeks because of swelling, they want to keep the face in a swollen state where you can be deceived. Same with Laser 

Wait, so you actually have performed Infini on patients, or am I misreading your post?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thank you to all you guys for helping me out, thanks for the speedy responses and your input, I truly do appreciate it. I know I'm a little annoying with all the questions, but I've had these scars for a long time and want them improved. I understand i have rushed my plan a little which is why I'm going to space them out more. I will leave my face alone and not do anything until mid may when i will get a subcision with filler most probably. Mid july i will see where i am at and will probably get my 3rd infini w prp. i will give this about 3 months, and get my 4th infini w prp at the end of september. at this point i will let my face rest and perhaps get a scion pro fractional done. I will keep you guys updated as improvements are noticed or as treatments are done.

Thanks you guys.Again those pics of me are from beginning of january before i got anything done. 

beautifulambition reacted to this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read that you plan to go to Southcoast Med Spa.... They're one of those chain med spas that try to push package deals.  They're pretty aggressive with the marketing.  I would go in and listen critically to everything they're saying.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Sign In / Sign Up