Scarless Healing

Started by Tom_Mason Tom_Mason

10,041 posts in this topic

Here is an article I got today from google alerts:

http://presszoom.com/story_136414.html

Fellowship supports research into special bandages that prevent scarring

Critical research into a special bandage that can prevent disfiguring scarring has received a major boost today from the Queensland Government. Queensland Minister for State Development John Mickel said Dr Timothy Dargaville from the Queensland University of Technology’s Institute of Health and Biomedical Innovation had received a $150,000 Smart State Fellowship for his pioneering work on using advanced polymer chemistry as a new therapy for scarring.

(PressZoom) - Critical research into a special bandage that can prevent disfiguring scarring has received a major boost today from the Queensland Government.

Queensland Minister for State Development John Mickel said Dr Timothy Dargaville from the Queensland University of Technology’s Institute of Health and Biomedical Innovation had received a $150,000 Smart State Fellowship for his pioneering work on using advanced polymer chemistry as a new therapy for scarring.

“Dr Dargaville’s work holds out immense hope for people with burn-related scars as well as people who are genetically predisposed to scarring due to abnormal healing after injury or surgery,†Mr Mickel said.

“Each year hundreds of Queensland children receive shocking scars from burns, usually from hot liquid like boiling water. The effect to children from burns is immense, both physically and psychologically. Very often they suffer severe damage to a large part of their body, including the face and neck.

“In 2005, the Royal Children’s Hospital in Brisbane alone received over 450 children with new burns, many of them requiring extended hospitalisation.â€

He said on top of that, over 2000 Queenslanders per year had melanomas removed that left relatively small, but noticeable scars.

“And some Queenslanders, particularly Indigenous Australians, are predisposed to abnormal wound healing leading to keloid or hypertrophic scarring.

“The quality of life of patients who have suffered unsightly scarring is significantly affected in terms of self-perception and willingness to engage in social activities. This is why Dr Dargaville’s work is so important – if he can develop a bandage that reduces scarring, that will have a huge impact on a lot of lives,†Mr Mickel said.

Dr Dargaville said his research focused on developing an interactive polymer bandage, based on hydrogel technology that was programmed to release an active healing agent upon contact with the skin.

“The idea is to accentuate the body’s own healing system, encouraging cell regeneration and repair, thus controlling the formation of scar tissue and also reducing the detrimental effect of existing scars,†Dr Dargaville said.

“If we can achieve that, this will help repair the damage much quicker than current tissue repair therapies and be more effective than any other product currently on the market,†he said.

Mr Mickel said Queensland was already developing a reputation as a hub for expertise in wound healing.

“Professor Zee Upton and her team at the Institute of Health and Biomedical Research along with the QUT spin-off company Tissue Therapies Ltd, with its VitroGro technology, are helping the Smart State attain ‘iconic status’ for products to treat wounds,†Mr Mickel said.

The Smart State Fellowships are part of the Queensland Government’s $200 million Smart State Innovation Funding Program, which aims to build world-class research facilities, attract top-quality scientists to Queensland and stimulate cutting-edge research projects.

Round Two of the Smart State Innovation Funds set out about $18.5 million in assistance, including project funding, research fellowships and university internships

Mr Mickel is hosting a special reception at 3pm today for the latest recipients of the Smart State Fellowship and Queensland Clinical Research Fellowship programs at the Queensland Room, the Executive Building, 100 George Street, Brisbane.

“The Queensland Government has invested more than $3 billion in innovation, science and research since 1998. I think this demonstrates our deep and ongoing commitment to maintaining Queensland’s reputation as the Smart State,†Mr Mickel said.

Dr Dargaville’s Smart State Fellowship is co-sponsored by the Institute of Health and Biomedical Innovation and Tissue Therapies, who have awarded matching funds.

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I assume you folks are familiar with Recell? http://www.recell.info/pa_casestudies.asp

If not, it might be worth a look.


_________________________________________________________________________

Male 37 Skin type II/III Previous dermabrasion, excisions, TCA cross, couple of hypo spots

Fraxel 1500, 70mJ software

in conjunction with Sculptra and V-Beam.

Vitamin C, Zinc & Lysine supplements

Neova GHK-Cu post treatment then Cetaphil

Session 1: 29 May 2007

Blue dye

40mJ / Level 8 / Full face

60mJ / Level 8 / Spot treatment

Total kj not available

Session 2: 21 June 2007

45mJ / Level 8 / Full face

50mJ / Level 10 / Spot treatment

6.12kj

Session 3: 10 July 2007

50mJ / Level 8 / Full face

70mJ / Level 8 / Spot treatment

Total kj not available

Session 4: 6 August 2007

Roller tip (no blue dye)

70mJ / Level 8 / Full face

7.95kj

Session 5: 21 August 2007

70mJ / Level 8 / Full face

11 kj

Session 6: 5 September 2007

70mJ / Level 10 / Full face

10.68kj


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Reading this threat has been very informative and makes me feel quite a bit better about where scince is headed in the near future concerning scar revision. I have lots of small hypopigmented spots, particularly on my forehead, as a result of acne scaring earlier on in life. Good news is I no longer have acne, bad news is I'm left with a constant reminder of it!! I've done a ton of reading about scar revision, I've read a bunch of really hoky stuff as well as some treatments that seem to be based on scientific logic. All of my reading eventually lead me to Fraxel, which i did knowing full well that I wasn't designed to improve on my hypopigmented spots. While it did seem to help a bit for whatever reason, I'm still very happy with the treatment because it fixed my other major problem which was rough skin. Now i'm just looking to improve upon the spots, which evenutally led me to ReCell. I live in the States so all I can do now is wait and keep reading anything I can about it. Throughout the years I've run into countless "cures" for this, all of which turned out to be completely false. But this time I'm actually a bit more hopefull that this will one day soon be a treatment option I can try. This company seems to be much more legit than anything i've seen in a while (through their website you can learn about thier history, they are even registered on the ASX). It appears that they are still trying to get FDA approval her but my question is what about the countries where they are currently licensed? How is the product doing there. From the explanation about how it works, it seems like it should be effective. It's bascially getting a laser resurfacing of the skin, with the added step of having skin cells harvested from the patient applied to the area before healing takes place. Laser skin resurfacing has been around for a long time and countless people have done it, so my hope is that adding this extra step won't prove to be too much of a problem. I know i'm oversimplifying the process, but when you break it all down, that's about what is happening. Anyway, just curious to hear any stories from folks who live in other parts of the world who have heard of or have experience with ReCell.

Take Care,

jt

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Hi JT,

From what I have read on ReCell they are facing some challenges getting their technique/product approved in the US and they also faced some setbacks in Australia. I seem to remember Ireland as being a place where they were approved but I’d have to look at the website again. I do not remember they’re doing this treatment post laser treatment. From what I read they only apply the cells after dermabrasion. I believe they need an open wound field for the cells to take. You might want to contact them and see if they can refer you to a doctor who can answer your questions.

Best of luck!

Anna

http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/rec...7466989813.html

This is another link from ReCell with addresses and phone numbers for contacts. I would think contacting any of these offices should give you more information:

http://www.recell.info/pa_contactus.asp?sid=pa


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anna,

thanks for the info. i've also read (probably a lot of the same stuff you did) a lot about this and it seems that the delays are more related following the procedures set up by the FDA rather than problems with the actual product itself. in fact, i bet if you took a look at all the drugs approved by the FDA, you'd probably find at least half don't have a smooth ride to approval. i know it's approved now in AUS and from the few case studies i've been able to find, it's worked. problem is that it is so new that there just aren't that many case studies around yet. i believe that treatment options in this area are going to take some time to stick as most who are interested in this stuff (whether it be docs or patients) have heard all this before and it usually ends up being a waste of money, so skepticism is probably an understandable reaction. to combat that, the company needs to do a better job of selling their product, which seems to be something they haven't done yet. simply having a product, whether it works or not, doesn't mean that it will sell, you have to know how to market it. personally i think that this thing will eventually make it's way through the FDA and that those that it can benefit will be able to take advantage of it. i usually don't get excited about this type of thing as, like a lot of us, most of the things we try don't end up working, but for whatever reason i think this one could very well be different. that being said, if this doesn't end up working, i'm willing to bet in a few years there will be something that will. there are too many smart people working on this stuff to not be able to eventually find something that works.

and you're right they do add the cells after dermabrasion, but laser procedures that do the same thing, basically remove the top layer of skin, will also work from my understanding (check out this link .

just some thoughts,

best of luck to you as well!

jt

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More regenerative mammals! Apparently rabbits can regenerate punched ear holes in the same way the MRL mouse does. It seems they have known about the rabbit for years. It wasn't until they found a mouse that could do it that they thought it was something that could possibly be manipulated into happening in humans...

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/botrender...amp;artid=21719


We search for more answers because the ones we have found are not to our liking.


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Hi JT,

I looks like we were posting at about the same time! I looked at the link you provided and see that they did this post laser treatment. Great to know that is an option as fewer doctors perform dermabrasion now than in the past. I added another link in my post to you where they have addresses and phone numbers. It looks like ReCell is approved in Europe. Baby steps for now it seems. We are right to be wary given that so many doctors are happy to fleece us of our money with deceptive promises. Thanks again for your post!

Anna


We search for more answers because the ones we have found are not to our liking.


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This thread is a good compilation of modern research on wound healing. Much of this research has been ongoing for a decade or more. I remember reading about several of these promising treatments before undergoing my laser surgery in 2000, and thinking at the time that it would be great if I could combine that procedure with something like spray-on skin.

I've pondered the idea for years. One thing I thought of was a device with thousands of microscopic needles that would inject the proper combination of growth factors/stem cells/etc. while creating tiny wounds which would then heal properly (I had this idea before fraxel came along).

I still believe these techniques have some way to go before they would benefit those of us with acne scars, particularly extensive mild or moderate scarring, where the downsides of invasive procedures outweigh the benefits.

The real profit would be in treating wrinkles, hypertrophic scars, hypopigmentation, stretch marks and the myriad of skin ailments more common than acne scars. Most people suffering from these imperfections aren't as willing as those of us here to undergo a serious treatment. The best case scenario for all involved would be a topical cream that could penetrate the epidermis and promote autonomous healing.

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The real profit would be in treating wrinkles, hypertrophic scars, hypopigmentation, stretch marks and the myriad of skin ailments more common than acne scars. Most people suffering from these imperfections aren't as willing as those of us here to undergo a serious treatment. The best case scenario for all involved would be a topical cream that could penetrate the epidermis and promote autonomous healing.

Hi Star Search2,

I agree that the best scenario would be a topical cream that could penetrate the epidermis and promote autonomous healing. I would love to see that. However, I believe that before any regeneration can occur the existing fibrous scar tissue has to either be mechanically removed or some injected agent needs to be introduced which will catabolise it. At that point the scar tissue needs to be fought off during the period needed for regeneration. In my opinion this will need to be orchestrated growth factors or merely the injection of cells such as gene therapy or fetal liver cells such as in the MRL mouse where they injected fetal liver cells of a regenerating mouse into a non regenerating mouse and induced the normal mouse into regenerating tissue.

I think the work on this is closer than it has ever been to coming to fruition:

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=17736

The first leg of this study is currently underway and completes in October.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Anna


We search for more answers because the ones we have found are not to our liking.


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I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Anna

I researched juvista about 2 years ago and I am not going to waste time looking at something which won't help acne scars.

Let me explain.

Most acne scars are depressed right? Dr Chu explained to me quite clearly why that is. The inflammation starts in the sebaceous gland of the hair follicle, about 2-3 millimetres below the surface of the skin. When the scar forms, this is because structures have been permanently lost. The whole hair follicle, the sweat gland, the collagen matrix etc. The new scar literally falls into a hole where theses structures once existed. In this case it is not the actual fibrotic scar tissue which looks unsightly, it is the depression. Sure you could excise the small fibrotic tissue, give it some juvista and there would be less fibrotic tissue. Would it look better? No. The body cannot just forget about structures that have been lost and juvista is not about to replace those structures. In other words, you aren't about to have your perfect skin back again...

.... dream on!!!!

Its just that its annoying coming back to the scar forum and seeing this thread continually bumped. Sure we can type what we want here. But juvista and its companion products is gonna be used for what it is intended to be used for, reduction of scar tissue following surgery. It won't be used for acne scar revision.

Die - thread - die

(sorry to shatter any illusions/dreams btw)

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I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Anna

I researched juvista about 2 years ago and I am not going to waste time looking at something which won't help acne scars.

Let me explain.

Most acne scars are depressed right? Dr Chu explained to me quite clearly why that is. The inflammation starts in the sebaceous gland of the hair follicle, about 2-3 millimetres below the surface of the skin. When the scar forms, this is because structures have been permanently lost. The whole hair follicle, the sweat gland, the collagen matrix etc. The new scar literally falls into a hole where theses structures once existed. In this case it is not the actual fibrotic scar tissue which looks unsightly, it is the depression. Sure you could excise the small fibrotic tissue, give it some juvista and there would be less fibrotic tissue. Would it look better? No. The body cannot just forget about structures that have been lost and juvista is not about to replace those structures. In other words, you aren't about to have your perfect skin back again...

.... dream on!!!!

Its just that its annoying coming back to the scar forum and seeing this thread continually bumped. Sure we can type what we want here. But juvista and its companion products is gonna be used for what it is intended to be used for, reduction of scar tissue following surgery. It won't be used for acne scar revision.

Die - thread - die

(sorry to shatter any illusions/dreams btw)

Rupert,

If you had actually read the thread we are not only talking about Juvista, we are talking about the whole area of research into scarless healing and regeneration. You can believe what you want. Some very high profile agencies are throwing a LOT of money into making this a reality. If you don't want to read this thread don't open it. I guess I have to wonder why you keep reading it. You do seem really angry and I don't really blame you on some level.

However, maybe you could harness that energy into something positive? Otherwise, don't crush people as it isn't helpful. Anyway, you don't know that Renovo or another company isn't working on a technique to address depressed atrophic scars.

Anna


We search for more answers because the ones we have found are not to our liking.


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As negative as Rupert may be about this whole thing, I have been inclined to agree with him from the beginning. What he says I have always believed to be true for many years now. It's just that not much true research is being done solely on depressed scars, and if it is, it's not conclusive or compelling enough to effect a siginifacnt step. I really don't know of many if any people having ever had dramatic improvement with moderate to severe scarring since I joined almost 5 years ago.

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Like I said in an earlier post, I think there are too many smart people who not only are good at what they do in this area of research, but also realize the tremendous amount of profit that is there for the taking. Like it or not, the fact the we are all sitting here waiting to spend our money is the best motivation that they could possibly have to find new treatments.

Also wanted to share this. I wrote an email the other day asking general questions about ReCell and sent it to five or six different docs in Canada (where it is an approved product) and have so far got one response, which was this:

"Sorry, I don't know anything about it, and I doubt that it will prove to be of any value, as depigmentation is a tough problem and if that product was of any value at all I would very likely have heard of it."

So my question is this, in the email I included the web address and specifically asked for the doctor's opinion after taking a look at the site. The way I read his response, and correct me if you see it another way, was basically a brush off. I understand that he may have not heard of the product, but that very well could be because of the fact that it is still pretty new. Additionally, it doesn't appear that he even took the time to look at the site before he composed this response. I'm not against negative answers or opinions as my goal is to be as informed as possible. What I am against are docs who don't seem to take the time. From his response, the only reason that ReCell won't work is because he has yet to hear of it! WOW! That's pretty hard logic to follow if you ask me. Of course depigmentation is a tough problem! Now if he were to give me a substantial reason as to why he didn't believe it would work, i'm all ears. My point is that I think when it comes to these new treatments, it's going to take some persistence on our part to get some of these things noticed.

Anyway, just some thoughts.... y'all take care

jt

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As negative as Rupert may be about this whole thing, I have been inclined to agree with him from the beginning. What he says I have always believed to be true for many years now. It's just that not much true research is being done solely on depressed scars, and if it is, it's not conclusive or compelling enough to effect a siginifacnt step. I really don't know of many if any people having ever had dramatic improvement with moderate to severe scarring since I joined almost 5 years ago.

I had dramatic improvement to several of my depressed boxcar scars following laser surgery.

Unfortunately, I couldn't recommend this procedure due to the complications. I got the most improvement in the areas where the surgeon went deepest, but this is also where I suffered lingering problems.

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To Rupert, although this thread was originally started about juvista and other renovo products it has become a place for people to discuss all the future research being done about scars if you read back a few pages you'll see this.

"Its just that its annoying coming back to the scar forum and seeing this thread continually bumped"

As you keep coming back here im curious to what you are searching for seeing as you seem to know alot more about upcoming scar treatments than most people here (ive read your previous topics).

I agree with you in that its frustrating doctors can tell you exactly whats wrong with you but when it comes to a cure its all too hard and that you should just get on with life. Its odd you dont see many doctors with scars.

Anyway have you heard of anything new coming up? You seem a very intelligent fellow and it would be great to have your input into this topic.

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I don't know Tom, I really have a minimal tolerance for emotionally undisciplined people who wish to crush other people's intellectual pursuits. Although, I did go through some of Rupert's posts and find he shares my January 19th birday, so I have to give him some credit. ;)

Anyway, I will keep researching and if anybody doesn't like it they can shove it. Okay, I have let my inner bitch out and let her have some fun!

Cheers everyone!

Anna


We search for more answers because the ones we have found are not to our liking.


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I don't know Tom, I really have a minimal tolerance for emotionally undisciplined people who wish to crush other people's intellectual pursuits. Although, I did go through some of Rupert's posts and find he shares my January 19th birday, so I have to give him some credit. ;)

Anyway, I will keep researching and if anybody doesn't like it they can shove it. Okay, I have let my inner bitch out and let her have some fun!

Cheers everyone!

Anna

When you are frustrated and upset we all can be prone to reactive outbursts.

Regarding scarless healing, Anna stays the course unflinching knowing that someday she along with many people who are disfigured will be free of their scars.

A couple of year before the Wright brothers demonstrated flight, some people would have laughed at you if you thought that one day soon you'd fly. Basically they'd laugh at earlier brave concepts that fell into the sea when driven off the pier. You seem to be laughing at progress in the same way rupert?

Thats the type of laughing Anna doesn't have, I don't have, Neca doesn't have, Tom doesn't have and many others who read this thread don't have. We don't laugh and put down 'any' steps of progress, instead we are open to it, we welcome it and encourage it.

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:lol:

The reason why I don't take offence at your posts you guys is cos I have seen this before. Sure if you want to do some fantasising then go right ahead, theres no harm in that. Whatever gets you through the night etc

This reminds me of this guy who bought this expensive Russian device cos he thought it would eliminate his scars. It was painfully obvious that he had no understanding of what scarring is. He got pretty upset with me too, geeeeez I'd have saved him like £500.

Anyway, I don't mean any offence to you guys. Peace and I hope you get what you want. :)

good luck :)

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i think permanent dermal fillers may be the best bet for the future.if someone can get one that wont lump up and smooth out the skin.you still may have the scar but it will be a flat scar.down the road..maybe 10 to 20 years i see stems cells and genetic engineering may find why some people's skin are sensative to testosterone and some people's are not.it probably too late for me but gives hope to someone in their 20s or teens.man cant do find cures for everything in this world.

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Thank you Kirk! Great post. I agree completely.

I think what folks are failing to understand about this thread is that the body wants to regenerate itself. There are just a few evolutionary twists in place that are stopping it. Suppress a few growth factors here or there or provide gene therapy to suppress or reactivate a gene and you could have regeneration. The scientists at DARPA and ten universities in the US are working on this as at multiple universites and research foundations throughout the world. I have always said that depressed atrophic scars are like mini amputations. Fillers, lasers or anything else are poor substitutes to opening the path to regeneration. Incidentally, the difference between genetic engineering and gene therapy is that genetic engineering must be done at the single cell level. This means one egg and one sperm cell. Gene therapy is what is available for adults.


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poor substitutes but when you have nothing better out there its not that bad.who know it might be a good 50 to 60 years or they never may find anything to get rid of scars or it could be next week.i wish someone would find something to make my skin perfect again but im not gonna hold my breath.its been 27 years since i first consulted about a dermabrasion and we havnt had much that really works in 27 years.i hear all this great news about stems cell but i havnt seen any applications in humans yet.

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poor substitutes but when you have nothing better out there its not that bad.who know it might be a good 50 to 60 years or they never may find anything to get rid of scars or it could be next week.i wish someone would find something to make my skin perfect again but im not gonna hold my breath.its been 27 years since i first consulted about a dermabrasion and we havnt had much that really works in 27 years.i hear all this great news about stems cell but i havnt seen any applications in humans yet.

I believe there have been huge research breakthroughs since 27 years ago. I dont think that people were even talking the possiblility of scarless healing then. Stem cells and similar research have only even been in the news for the last 5 years. I think it will definately happen eventually and i'd say most likely within 50-60 years. So think of yourselves as pioneers suffering for the benefit of future generations so that they may never be faced with these problems.

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I believe there have been huge research breakthroughs since 27 years ago. I dont think that people were even talking the possiblility of scarless healing then. Stem cells and similar research have only even been in the news for the last 5 years. I think it will definately happen eventually and i'd say most likely within 50-60 years. So think of yourselves as pioneers suffering for the benefit of future generations so that they may never be faced with these problems.

I actually think these timelines are going to SIGNIFICANTLY supressed. We will know a lot more even in a year. I believe this based on the aggressive timelines a number of research institutes have had set for themselves. Right now, money is dangling out there by both the government and demanding private institutes insisting that the authors of tantalizing research papers show translatable (into eventual human use) results.

Maybe I'm crazy to be as optimistic as I have ever been, but I remain so!

Thanks everyone!

Anna


We search for more answers because the ones we have found are not to our liking.


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Like I said in an earlier post, I think there are too many smart people who not only are good at what they do in this area of research, but also realize the tremendous amount of profit that is there for the taking. Like it or not, the fact the we are all sitting here waiting to spend our money is the best motivation that they could possibly have to find new treatments.

Also wanted to share this. I wrote an email the other day asking general questions about ReCell and sent it to five or six different docs in Canada (where it is an approved product) and have so far got one response, which was this:

"Sorry, I don't know anything about it, and I doubt that it will prove to be of any value, as depigmentation is a tough problem and if that product was of any value at all I would very likely have heard of it."

So my question is this, in the email I included the web address and specifically asked for the doctor's opinion after taking a look at the site. The way I read his response, and correct me if you see it another way, was basically a brush off. I understand that he may have not heard of the product, but that very well could be because of the fact that it is still pretty new. Additionally, it doesn't appear that he even took the time to look at the site before he composed this response. I'm not against negative answers or opinions as my goal is to be as informed as possible. What I am against are docs who don't seem to take the time. From his response, the only reason that ReCell won't work is because he has yet to hear of it! WOW! That's pretty hard logic to follow if you ask me. Of course depigmentation is a tough problem! Now if he were to give me a substantial reason as to why he didn't believe it would work, i'm all ears. My point is that I think when it comes to these new treatments, it's going to take some persistence on our part to get some of these things noticed.

Anyway, just some thoughts.... y'all take care

jt

JT,

I am sad to say that your experience is typical. A few months ago I had a friend who had an appointment with a plastic surgeon to treat damage she sustained due to a botched laser treatment. She asked the doctor about the Renovo and his thoughts about the future of their pending treatments. His answer was that he wasn't aware that Renova (a retinoid cream which has nothing to do with Renovo was researching it). Again, he hadn't heard of it so it doesn't exist. Even if you go to the American Dermatological Association website the treaments they describe have been around for about 15 years. There is no talk of the future of treatment options. Sad!

Have a wonderful day!

Anna


We search for more answers because the ones we have found are not to our liking.


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