- Last Week
10 hours ago, FromScarredtoFree said:
I was talking about soft tissue organs but you are right bone also regenerates.
Also another point I wanted to make is what if new technology comes in a few years that isn't "scarless" healing per se. Everyone on this forum agrees that acne scars are a cosmetic problem, so what if a new treatment comes along that can camouflage or or flatten scar tissue to the point that it isn't visible. Personally I had filler done and it worked very well to me to the point where I can't see my scars when I shine a flashlight on my face, but I realize filler might not work for everyone because of tethering, atrophy, fat loss, and other variations. But what if the next big filler can flatten scar tissue or change skin pigmentation. Fillers are one of the biggest beauty trends now and a ton of money is going into research. Also there are so many companies fighting for the top spot and currently researching the next generation of fillers like Juvederm, Restalyn, Beletero Ect. While scarless healing is a great thing to strive for, most people on this forum don't need it because we don't have issues with scars like contractures or lack of sweat glands. Most of the problems are from the cosmetic results of our scars and as such we only need a cosmetic level solution.
When it comes to fillers, they work well for depressed type scars like rolling or boxcar. There is fat loss in rolling scars. Also, there's too little collagen in these atrophic type scars like boxcar or ice picks. Fillers help with these voids and even out the skin. Fillers are however temporary not permanent. They don't work well on ice pick scars. Most of us have ice pick scars. There's a new method right now that has to be approved by the FDA where they inject your own body's collagen to inject into these depressions. They are trying to develop a permanent filler. This might help greatly.
Also, many people with facial acne develop severe body acne on the chest, neck, shoulders, back and upper arms. Acne on these areas tends to be aggressive and widespread. After the pimples heal, the skin is covered by scar tissue mostly hypertrophic or atrophic. Fillers can help for atrophic scars but it doesn't make sense to get fillers on depressed acne scars on your back.
Fillers do nothing on hypertrophic or keloid scars. Keloids tend to cause severe disfigurement, excess hypertrophic scar tissue. Steroid injections flatten hypertrophic scars. Keloids tend to return after being manipulated even worse than before.
For some individuals, acne can leave them disfigured especially if they develop keloids. We can't truly say acne scars are purely cosmetic.
4 hours ago, Rez77 said:
Yeah I talked to a scientist at MIT who works in Tissue Bioengineering.
He said the type of things that would lead to total scar remodeling won't be a reality for another 50 years.
That's what he said and I challenged him talking about all the exciting research and he said this is all research for it to first even be found there would need to be several quantum jumps in terms of finding sources with which to actually generate enough cells from stem cells and they're not even close to doing that yet. And then for it to be developed into a therapeutic device or application would take us way past 2040. He said there are tons of unethical start-ups who are promising all sorts of things but they're just pie in the sky hopes that they'll get enough funding to last through the next decade till they can try and post some new discovery. He even said the ugly truth about hair cloning and regeneration is that its at least 20-30 years away.
I just thought it you guys should hear this from a scientist directly involved in the university level research on skin remodeling. THis at least helps me take a deep breath and stop following this thread which I have been very active in previously. I'm sorry I cannot post something more optimistic but I'm posting what I've heard. Its a tough pill to swallow, but at least it helps me accept my scars and stop wasting the rest of life hoping for something that won't come in time for me to still enjoy my youth, which is already half gone anyway. I've been with this thread since 2007 and now 11 years later with no single improvement whatsoever, its time to realize why and stop hoping. Sometimes its just better to know when to quit. Sorry guys.
You have contributed in the past and sometimes it seemed that your scars caused you a great deal of distress. Accepting them, will help you tremendously.
I agree with you that scarless wound healing can take decades but its not because scientists don't have the capacity right now to do so. As you mentioned, it's because of the time it takes to develop a method, drug or device that can take so long. Clinical trials to product development takes on average 10 years provided the clinical trials don't fail. A lot of time, the clinical trials stop because they don't have the funds to continue.
Scientists are already using gene therapy, as experimental treatments. They are already growing human organs in labs for transplantation. They are using stem cells to cure certain types of diseases in young children. We have come a long way.
Scars are for the most part aesthetic. Its only normal to attempt to find functional cures to disease using tissue engineering first.
I truly believe within the next decade, a topical cream or drug will exist that will improve the overall appearance of scars. Right now, we have none.
- Last Month
Wound healing is complex and still not well understood. What we do know is that scar tissue is the normal outcome of a healed wound. Once the dermis is injured, the new healed skin will not be the same as to pre-injury.
Issue is that fibroblasts tend to fill in the gap in order to close the wound. The faster the wound is healed, the less scar tissue is formed. Once the skin is injured, fibroblast cells begin laying down collagen in a different direction. A scab is formed to protect the wound. Fibroblast cells are few in numbers generally awating for an injury to happen in order to begin repair.
Too much collagen leads to thick scars known as hypertrophic scars. Almost everyone will get this type of scar if the wound is large enough. The fibroblasts turn into granulation tissue over time which fill up the wound. Scar tissue is basically matured granulation tissue lacking hair follicles, melanocytes and sweat glands. If the wound is small, fibroblasts tend to die out and white cells eliminate them by phagocytocis. The regenerated skin would look exactly the same as to pre-injury. Essentially, it seems the body cannot eliminate all these fibroblasts if the wound is large enough. Over time however, the scar might become smaller or significantly fade as the body attempts to reorganize the collagen by eliminating all these fibroblasts.
For some people, the fibroblasts multiply exceptionally resulting in excess scar tissue. This is considered abnormal healing and a disease. These scars are known as keloids. Some doctors consider keloids as tumors as they multiply abnormally just like cancer cells.
Too little collagen results in atrophic scars. These regularly develop after moderate or severe acne or othe skin diseases. They result in skin depressions.
Modern medicine has developed some methods to elevate the skin depressions by injecting collagen or promoting new collagen by re-injuring the skin. The outcome of the procedures depends on each individual.
Thick scars are injected with steroids which seem to flatten them or laser therapy can burn off some of the repaired excess skin resulting in a flatter smoother scar. However, thick scars tend to regenerate into even thicker layers if they are touched.
Researchers already know that the FOXN1 gene is involved in keratin expression and regulates wound healing. What the researchers found accordingly to the article is that there is higher activity of FOXN1 in healing wounds. Inhibiting the gene might prevent scars altogether. My assumption would be that FOXN1 regulates fibroblasts. More fibroblasts means more scar tissue. Less fibroblasts means less scar tissue. However, our skin heals with the aid of these cells which produce collagen in order to help close wounds. Manipulating FOXN1 might tamper the body's natural healing ability.
Cotsarelis and Plikus found a way to turn fibroblasts into fat tissue or adipose tissue which seemed to signal skin regeneration of hair follicles and sweat glands. The research was published on Jan 2017. There's nothing new to report from them ever since. They had intentions to launch clinical trials but over a year has passed and they seem to be quite silent ever since about their findings. I believe they truly hold the answer to scarless wound healing.
A cream or drug that helps turn existing scar tissue into normal looking skin again is the way to go.
WNT signal pathways control cell growth. Tampering with WNT signal pathways leads to uncontrollable cell progression or proliferation resulting in cell overgrowth and higher chances of abnormal cell growth resulting in cancer.
With all the research going on right now in an attempt to eliminate scarring, we can only hope most that the products being currently tested do not fail like Juvista.
So lets get back on topic. Researchers have found the gene responsible for scar formation in Poland. Take it for what's worth.
39 minutes ago, Anish004 said:who are you to judge how severe my scars are ???come meet me.. i will show u my scars
i dont have any blackheads..i have many moles on face..i dont have ice picks but circular pox scars...AMVC scar and extra stretched pores
this is the reason why i left this thread times ago and join more fine persons on group messages and they are much better than immature people on this thread who just came months ago on this thread and started judging others....there are some peoples who are on this thread and forum for more than 10 years and you guys just keep talkinf about % improvement ...oh i forgot go get fraxel for your % improvement...and dont judge my scars....i dont like them and they appear disfiguring to me thats why i am here..... cant u see thats very good lighting and i have mainly scars on my nose
and my cheek scars only appear in index lighting and this pic is in full lighting
You have at most 1 or 2 ice pick scars which as you said are from chicken pox. Everybody has a chicken pox scar somewhere on their body. These atrophic scars are easy to treat with permanent or temporary fillers and even subcision. You do not get 100% improvement but you can get as much as 90%.
Some people have enlarged pores. This is just genetics. Get over it. It's not disfiguring. It's like having freckles.
AMVC is rare random scarring and not caused by acne or any other skin condition. In fact, it's not scarring at all because there's no fibrosis going on. It seems it's a genetic disorder affecting skin elastin of the face. It is similar to anetoderma which occurs on the body. Even if someone finds a way to regenerate skin, your issue has to do with skin elastin not scar tissue.
Some people develop another type of acne scarring known as follicular macular or perifollicular elastolysis on the body after severe acne. Again, elastic fibers are affected but you also have fibrosis going on.
You have very minimal scarring. Go enjoy life.
33 minutes ago, FreddiHendersson said:@Anish004 Are you kidding me?! Where are your SCARS? Live your life, Bro
You'll find many trolls, others here with low self esteem or serious mental health. All you can do is offer advice and try to help.
I don't believe Anish has severe acne or acne scarring for that matter. All I see is some blackheads that can easily be cleared with some over the counter creams or by a dermatologist. There may be 1 or 2 ice pick scars but those are nothing really to cry over.
2 hours ago, SimpleMutton said:
Let's be honest, there will be no cure at least for 10 years.
I decided to tattoo over my scars in my back and hide them that way.
Every product in development is either still in clinical trials (and take years) or plainly doesn't work for acne scars.
Good luck everybody
With time, the scars get better but that's what severe acne leaves behind. People, especially many parents don't seem to think of the potential disfigurement to the skin it may cause.
Prevention is the best way to avoid the scarring. As a teenager, your parents might tell you it's just a phase. Accutane has too many side effects. Girls can take birth control but as soon as they stop it, severe acne manifests itself.
The best way to deal with acne is finding a functional cure. It is also in development and can take years. I guess, as a teenager if you have severe acne, you might as well accept the permanent skin scarring or take the Accutane route exposing yourself to other potential side effects to minimize future scarring. For most however Accutane gives them back their life.
I have my back and shoulders covered with these strange white wrinkly looking slightly raised scars that resemble little whiteheads. I also have a few on my jawline, thigh and upper arms. Some are large but most are small. They look better or worse as light conditions change. My face has a few ice pick scars as well.
I am an acne sufferer for close to 25 years. My skin condition has improved and the old scars are less noticeable. New pimples don't leave scars and resolve in about a few weeks with redness gone within a month. I never took Accutane and never went for any scar treatment but my skin condition has caused me great despair and limited me from doing fun activities as a young adult.
My skin is clear now and its the best it's ever been but the scars are a constant reminder of the my acne battle.
FS2 looks promising but let's hope it doesn't fail like Juvista.
4 hours ago, mjg713 said:
Any new information on the research done by Dr. Cotsarelis? Wasn't the method he discovered proven to be 100% effective in preventing scarring?
Seems to me that the medical community has more important things to find a cure for than finding something to minimize or prevent scarring. It's important to note that scarring is a normal healing process and not a disease. It will take time before something comes around that regenerates skin as it was before.
It sucks for us acne sufferers and acne scarred individuals who wished their skin was blemish and scar free.
I have been suffering from back, butt, face, thigh, upper arms and shoulder acne for many years. My skin has gotten better with time however I have a collection of acne scars covering different parts of my body especially tiny white slightly raised spots on my back, thigh, upper arms, shoulders and jawline. If I had a random spot here and there, it wouldn't be a big deal but I have collected a substantial amount of these throughout my cystic acne years.
I really hope FS2 doesn't fail as it seems to have taken the lead over all the others promising scarless healing in fresh wounds. Issue here is that it's a drug and can take time to see it ever being prescribed provided it doesn't fail.
Well, I guess the forum has become silent over the past few days. No news from SkinTE. I looked at Polarity's stock and it has taken quite a plunge which suggests that it may be a huge failure.
I would like to give an update on different anti scarring drugs, creams or devices currently in development to prevent or eliminate scarring.
These products are as follows:
FS2 is currently in phase 2 clinical trials. Mind you almost 50% of all experimental drugs fail at this stage. FS2 is licensed to the University of British Columbia in Canada.
It apparently has the power to eliminate scarring in fresh wounds and improve the appearance of existing scar tissue. It also prevents type 1 diabetes also known as juvenile diabetes. Phase 2 of the clinical trials will help drug developers determine if it improves from 40 to 90% existing scar tissue.
If successful, it can take long for such a drug to be sold.
Initially, they had created another anti scarring drug known as Fibrostop. It passed phase 1 clinical trials but ultimately failed.
ScarX Therapeutics is developing a anti scarring cream known as SCX-001. They are currently in phase 1 clinical trials. Apparently, their product improves scars by up to 50%. They are based in Toronto, Canada. Their product is being developed from Nefopam. Nefopam is a painkiller currently prescribed.
Elastagen based in Sydney, Australia were behind developing a product known as tropoelastin. Elastin is a naturally protein found in the skin which gives skin its elastic nature. They were sold in February to a bigger company known as Allergan, a maker of Botox. Their product is designed to treat stretch marks and acne scars. Allergan has been quite silent about the product ever since they acquired it. There are clinical trials underway.
The developer seems to be lacking the funds to proceed in clinical trials. Sunogel has been discussed on this forum heavily. No need to provide further details.
Α) There is also research that was done which suggest some proteins or molecules help with reducing scarring.
Researchers have found that Decorin, a human protein, reduces hypertrophic scarring if applied on fresh wounds.
Galecto Biotech seems to have developed a product to prevent lung scarring. If successful, it can possibly be used on skin scars.
C) Products currently available that may help with scar reduction.
D) Notable failures
1) Avotermin (Juvista)
Juvista failed in phase 3 clinical trials.
According to this research, inhibition of TGF-β3 reduces scar formation in humans.
In conclusion, we may have too wait a little longer to rid ourselves of acne scars.
- More Than a Month
There's also another product in development known as SCX-001. It is in phase 1 of clinical trials. It promises to reduce scarring by half. It is still not scarless healing but for acne scarred individual it is a step in the right direction.
15 hours ago, Anish004 said:
better concentrate on sunogel and Microcoring ....thay are devices and very fast for approval
Might as well, make the best of our present situation. One day, it might be possible to make our acne scarring vanish. Also, I really hope they find a functional cure to acne and folliculitis.
2 hours ago, HandyDonjon said:
FS2 may cause potentially reduced scar formation in animal experiments.
Reduces collagen deposition. Also in human experiments?
24 minutes ago, golfpanther said:
As much as I'd personally like to get excited about FS2, those results don't inspire much confidence.
Percentage improvements are such a finicky thing. 90%, 40%... at the end of the day you still have a scar without regenerated skin and appendages. Since this is a board about scarless healing, I think that's what we all want from any product that comes out.
6 hours ago, Lapis lazuli said:
Ryan spoke of that in an interview where he mentioned it wasn't yet known how it would be classified. If it's been classified by now officially as a drug then yeah, it's gonna take some time.
They claim they found a molecule that stops the overexpression of collagen buildup when in the healing phase. That is what FS2 contains.
There was an article that was published about phase 1 results in the Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences. I am trying to find a copy of it.
I am in no way being a poster boy of this product.
I am posting things on here from my personal research.
4 hours ago, HandyDonjon said:
FS2 completely regenerate the skin on the experiments?
Or just minimize scars?
1 hour ago, HCAS said:Therein lies the misconception about the Citron report.
There is no suggestion or evidence (yet!) that Polarity lied about the efficacy or capability of their product. Even Citron made it clear in the 2nd paragraph of their report that ..."Citron will not discuss the science behind Polaity TE because it's irrelevant."
The issue that Citron raised is that Polarity TE failed to notify the markets that they had received final rejection of their patent application.
It's not even that Polarity claimed they had a patent. However, they mislead the market by suggesting that there was a risk their patent application could be rejected...when in fact, the application had already been rejected! (A sneaky snake move, right!)
This lack of candour meant that people were buying Polarity Stock stock at high prices, without knowing this fundamental fact.
So...to clarify, the Citron report was about Polarity's shady stock price manipulation, rather than the efficacy of their product.
It is reasonable to ask.. if they can hide a patent rejection, what else could Polarity be hiding from the market?
However, there is no evidence (yet!) to suggest that they are lieing about the capability of their product.
Big pharma has been attempting to tackle scarring for decades and never found anything that eliminates it completely. It was impossible for 2 young researchers to have found a way to do it just like that. There was no peer reviewed articles. Normally big discoveries like this lead to peer reviewed articles.
Assuming they found a way, instead they rushed to register on the stock market. It all sounded fishy from the start and an attempt to make money. I also find it hard to believe that the institution they did their work would allow them to use, steal intellectual property just like that. The institution would be required to publish an article about the discovery with the institution's name on it.
There was no product. The product they claimed they had was rejected for a patent. It's all downhill from here because someone else has invented it but has yet to commercialize it. If there's no product, there's no business. They need to go back to the drawing boards. And they have a lot of lawsuits to settle for the coming years. I don't believe they can continue to play the sharade any longer. Investors are pulling out slowly leaving them with nothing.
The technology of SkinTE which probably already belongs to another entity and tweaked a little for Polarity can save lives because it could possibly be a substitute to current skin grafts. Issue is that it is prone to infection as documented on here by the "The Recovery of Autome" or something along those lines. Seems this patient developed infection after SkinTE was applied on his wounds. It is not a solution for us acne sufferers to our acne scarring.
1 hour ago, nikkigirl said:Because since this thread has been going on for over 10 years....nothing has been found. I don't think a human and a cat will ever mate either. Sure anything is possible but the odds are against it. There is a lot of things humans will never accomplish. To say that scarless healing will someday be possible and it can take only 10 years is purely speculation. The world might not be around in 10 years....maybe the sun will flare up and destroy life as we know it.....purely speculation.....nobody will know until it happens.13 hours ago, damnBOY said:Ok mister Iknoweverything this is the key yeah are u a goru of scarless skin? How did u find it will be 10 years ?? Lmaoooo
Some people here don't see SkinTE is a scam. Don't bother changing their point of view.
1 hour ago, Candy Says said:1 hour ago, nikkigirl said:
I don't think we will ever have anything that actually gives scarless healing.
With all these failed attempts to tackle scarring, they have made great progress. They have found a way to turn myofibroblasts into normal looking skin.
Myofibroblasts are what replace injured skin and any other types of injured tissue in mammals. The process is called fibrosis. The medical field is only starting to treat it as a disease. They however continue to treat scarring as a normal healing process because we have nothing else that can give a better outcome.
These cells are of different quality than normal skin cells. They are a patchwork to seal a wound quickly and effectively to prevent infection. Obviously, these cells are of inferior quality. Other animals are able to produce a blastema and thus regenerate including reptiles and less complex organisms. Mammals are not capable of this.
The key is to turn these fibroblasts into adipocytes, fat cells. The fat cells trigger the regeneration of hair follicles thus giving us a aesthatically great healing results.
A paper was published in early 2017 and posted often on this forum by a team headed by George Cotsarelis and Maksim Pilkus. The study was performed at UCI Penn University. Unfortunately, they have remained silent every since. They found a way to turn these fibroblasts into adipocytes.
It can take another 10 years but we are getting there slowly and surely.
Ok well let's just stop the fighting and move on from SkinTE. SkinTE has failed. Plain and simple. Nobody should come here to defend them on this thread. Their patent was rejected because the technology was already invented before. On the side, Renovo PLC also failed. They tried to do a similar concept. Seems that SkinTE is also prone to infections.
An open wound is prone to infections and applying a paste on it does not help. Basically, our bodies have a way to fight off bacteria. Introducing a foreign object into an open wound can lead to serious issues. I feel sorry for all those people who got SkinTE and now have to go through other setbacks.
Lets see what Sungoel can do. FS2 is still very far away.
I believe Sunogel can only achieve results under certain circumstances. The makers behind it are very careful not to release too much information unlike SkinTE whose plan was to take advantage of individuals looking for help.
I believe what you speak of is PRP.1 hour ago, surgical scar said:
Basically, it was a rip-off crap version of other cell re-distributing ideas, which fortunately couldn’t fool anyone into giving them patent for.
The SkinTE goo can’t even get applied on a wound or penetrate into it. It’s not liquid that you can inject into a closed wound or subcision. You need to create room and leave the wound open for the goo filler which turns into a messed-up bumpy jerky patch with obvious margins. Stupid. If it was a thin solution of just cells at least it could smoothly get sprayed onto the wound after it’s properly closed, then some of the cells might stick on the surface of the incision and penetrate inside.
If I were going to harvest cells why would I waste them in a messy goo? They claimed their crappy goo was going to prevent scarring by eliminating contraction and creating an environment for hair re-growth. Now the excuse is that the damage was too much?? They promised full regeneration of all layers with appendages! It doesn’t f**king matter! It results in an ugly mess as the doctor I consulted with told me.
Here we had the asinine jokes of possible 80% 60% 50% improvements! Even more with repeated procedure! LOL I would pay for 10% or even 5% detectable improvement. I have wasted money for lasers that made zero change. If SkinTE could offer 50% improvement I would have been sitting at their headquarters with $$$ until I got their potion
You’re better off saving yourself the pointless extra incision, and just use your plasma to aid with healing. I met a surgeon that said he extracts cells from patients' blood plasma and in the end she sprays/injects the cells onto the stitched incision and it heals well. No patent or product marking needed. Just common sense.
Makes me wonder why they don’t just use the patient’s blood to harvest cells in these supposed scar treatments to aid healing instead of pretending they’re growing scarless skin matching properties of the surroundings? I think they could care less about minimizing damage to their guinea pigs and just want to make presentations for their products.
I believe what you speak of is PRP.
51 minutes ago, surgical scar said:
The thing is SkinTE didn't even sound good.
I have no idea how some believed such crappy procedure and product was useful for aesthetic improvement and let obvious mental trolls keep telling them what they see and hear aren’t true, and even magical unknown derivatives that no one’s seen anything about will soon roll out!
It was clearly bogus hope as soon as the first picture came out and I got the unanimously negative clues from their actual doctors, in stark contrast with Polarity’s promises and totally bullshitting marketing.
And if they could get away with showing the slightest improvement on appearance of scars, they would have done at least one trial case on common scars beside just cases in acute need of skin graft. Why not use it on a patient with fresh gaping wound that doesn't need skin filler yet can see a better looking result than natural scar? Still people wanted to believe that their disastrous results would look fine after a year?Now Sunogel and the FS2 drug are somethings that sound too good to be true, but there isn't much marketing hype about them either. How do we get updates about the FS2 phase 2 clinical trials?
They are in phase 2 now. Phase 1 was started in 2015. We are in 2018 and phase 2 has only begun.
FS2 breaks down scar tissue. It does not completely eliminate it. My guess is the product will be good for hypertrophic or keloid scarring. They do say it prevents scarring in fresh wounds. My guess is that if this works, it is the same principle as Sunogel.
12 hours ago, Anish004 said:
thosr who dream about sunogel...seabs told me that sunogel still not tested on humans....
if it would have tested and worked on humans than its worth waiting for that
but till now its still not tested on human(that finger cut shown was a too small deep to prove sunogel efficiancy of regenration maybe that wound have healed that way normally)