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I wouldn't want heart problems or diabetes, but I understand. What's ignorant is that people don't realize that the takers of B5 or other super-doses of vitamins REALIZE the risks of it.

We're all aware of the risks...but isn't that what life is about?

Have you actually read all the B5 megadosing posts on this board? Suprisingly, there are a lot of people that do not realize the risks whatsoever. In fact, in true denial, they think B5 is an excellent idea because B vitamins are water soluble.

Some risks are worth taking, within reason. Some are just stupid. And it's easy to say this is what one wants right now and that one doesn't care about one's future health, but years down the road, will be singing another tune.

So, I'm honestly tired of people asking "is it worth it?" too. Especially if they're going to take it no matter what anyway. It's a stupid question asking other like minded risk takers to support their stupidity and make them feel better about it. They either did their research and don't give a crap for the long term, OR they didn't do their research and truly believe that it's all roses. Which is more sad? The people who purposely poison themselves or the idiots that blindly follow their sage advice?

But hey, that's just my opinion. If you all want to make yourselves sick now and later, go right ahead. Take the "risk." Just remember to pull the cord on your parachute before your brains are splattered all over the ground.

i like your way of thinking .. i couldn't have put it better myself .. you are very right many people don't know the potential risks and juss do it because so many other people are so it only sounds only right? i think alot of you shou;ld use common sense .. unfortunately common sense isn't very common now is it?

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acne can b covered up and you cna use creams and such to contorl it ..

And yes Accutane is a form fo vitamin i know Vitamin A but the thing is when you take it you are under a doctors care and they constantly check you or draw your blood to amke sure you are healthy hence the doctor isn't going to elt u overdose or anythign bc he/she knows what they are doing ..

I honestly wish it was that easy, but it's not. My acne is caused by extremely oily skin. I mean really oily, so oily you can see the sebum seeping out the pores on my face when I've just washed. Creams are good to a certain extent but when faced with that amount of sebum they don't do anything and in my personal experience have made things worse.

If i was to go on Accutane it would have to be off my own back as my doctor won't prescribe it for me because my acne isn't bad enough (due to the B5 doing it's job.) So I'd be ordering the Accutane from an online store somewhere, and not taking it under doctors supervision so I doubt I'd be any better off than with B5.

I want to come off B5 but until someone can give me a viable alternative to slowing down my sebum production I don't see any other options.

Cheers

Craig

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I honestly wish it was that easy, but it's not. My acne is caused by extremely oily skin. I mean really oily, so oily you can see the sebum seeping out the pores on my face when I've just washed. Creams are good to a certain extent but when faced with that amount of sebum they don't do anything and in my personal experience have made things worse.

If i was to go on Accutane it would have to be off my own back as my doctor won't prescribe it for me because my acne isn't bad enough (due to the B5 doing it's job.) So I'd be ordering the Accutane from an online store somewhere, and not taking it under doctors supervision so I doubt I'd be any better off than with B5.

I want to come off B5 but until someone can give me a viable alternative to slowing down my sebum production I don't see any other options.

Cheers

Craig

That is the most frustrating thing about proving you need accutane, no doubt. I had to try all sorts of antibiotics and topicals and continue to break out in severe cystic acne before the doctor was convinced that I could benefit from Accutane the first time. That was when I was in college, almost 20 years ago. A few years ago, it wasn't as big of an issue but my doctor was still cautious. Now, however, I'll have to jump through the iPledge hoops just get a long term low dose. And I prefer Accutane because it's systemic -- it keeps me clear everywhere, not just my face like all these laser treatments I'm doing. That being said, the laser treatmenst DO work at shrinking the sebaceous glands and dramatically reducing oil production. Still, Accutane helped with drying up the oiliness all over, including my super oily hair to a more normal like texture, which was great.

But again, there are better options for reducing oily skin. You can suffer through your acne for a few months to show the doctor that it is, indeed, moderated to severe to get the Accutane. And you're a guy so the iPledge thing is a non issue since you can't get pregnant. Get a second opinion if this guy is being too fucking stubborn. Perhaps a new one will put you on topicals to see if that helps and, if you're like me, they won't do anything for the acne but make your skin a dry, red, flaky mess. The advantage is it will prove to the doctor that you have some serious problem skin.

From the sounds of how much B5 you have to take, you'll go through about 6 bottles a month -- and B5 500mg pills aren't cheap either. And you're making yourself sick, causing all sorts of other health problems along the way. So spend your money on some other treatments.

If your face is the only concern, try getting a plastic surgeon opinion on laser treatments for acne. Such as PDT, smoothbeam, cooltouch, thermage, and Fraxel. All of these these treatments target the sebaceous glands, shrinking them and reducing oil production. I've been doing some of the treatments since this spring and there is a huge difference -- I am waaay less oily.

As for ordering accutane online and self medicating? Bad idea. You should be monitored and have your blood tested monthly and do it legally. Seriously, get a second opinion. A smart doctor will know that your skin is not oily due to the Biotin deficiency that your are experiencing as a result of the B5 megadosing and will realize that, as soon as you stop, you will begin to break out again. But if what it takes is to let your skin get bad again, temporarily, just long enough for the doctor to see you do have moderate/severe acne, then you'll be able to get proper treatment.

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Iknow you don't want to have really bad acne and right now your face seems perfect but you cannot live off B5 It is a tempororary fix that is what know one this board seems ot understand .. once you stop tkaing it your acne comes back sometimes worse .. so you are going to be better off not taking it at all. Juss let you acne do what it has to so you cna get Accutane it is probobly your safest bet .. bc living off B5 will ultimately lead you to your death .. yea sure you will b acne free but do you want to die? or end up being no a waiting list for a new liver or something? Are all those health problems worth not havign acne .. when all you had to do was stop taking B5 deal with it a few months and get Accutane? Taking a b Vitamin is great and helps with energy levels and overall health i take a b50 Complex and it is awsome .. but i do not over do it and i certainly don't take enough of it too see a difference in my skin. People before you do soemthign rediculous as this look into the risks be knowledgable not stupid .. never listen or do what other people sare syaing just because you think these peopole have done their research you ahve to do it for yourself never follow another person.

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Iknow you don't want to have really bad acne and right now your face seems perfect but you cannot live off B5 It is a tempororary fix that is what know one this board seems ot understand .. once you stop tkaing it your acne comes back sometimes worse .. so you are going to be better off not taking it at all. Juss let you acne do what it has to so you cna get Accutane it is probobly your safest bet .. bc living off B5 will ultimately lead you to your death .. yea sure you will b acne free but do you want to die? or end up being no a waiting list for a new liver or something? Are all those health problems worth not havign acne .. when all you had to do was stop taking B5 deal with it a few months and get Accutane? Taking a b Vitamin is great and helps with energy levels and overall health i take a b50 Complex and it is awsome .. but i do not over do it and i certainly don't take enough of it too see a difference in my skin. People before you do soemthign rediculous as this look into the risks be knowledgable not stupid .. never listen or do what other people sare syaing just because you think these peopole have done their research you ahve to do it for yourself never follow another person.

That is such bullshit. How the hell do you know B5 kills? Accutane, IMO, is just as ridiculous as B5...your statements are so full of hyprocracy.

Vitamin A has been shown to kill in OD, and that's exactly what Accutane is. Ironically you say never listen to people about B5 when you don't know the risks and haven't done the research...looks like you haven't done the research on B5 either. Even on the NIH website that no known risks have been involve in gram size doses of B5.

Of course I stopped taking B5 a long time ago and my acne never came back worst because I changed my diet. I think B5 can be a temporary fix on a change of diet to help speed up the process, but I don't advocate it long term because NO ONE KNOWS THE LONG TERM EFFECTS, BENEFICIAL OR NEGATIVE. So don't come here saying how you're Dr.Anti-B5 or something without any evidence.

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That is such bullshit. How the hell do you know B5 kills? Accutane, IMO, is just as ridiculous as B5...your statements are so full of hyprocracy.

Vitamin A has been shown to kill in OD, and that's exactly what Accutane is. Ironically you say never listen to people about B5 when you don't know the risks and haven't done the research...looks like you haven't done the research on B5 either. Even on the NIH website that no known risks have been involve in gram size doses of B5.

Of course I stopped taking B5 a long time ago and my acne never came back worst because I changed my diet. I think B5 can be a temporary fix on a change of diet to help speed up the process, but I don't advocate it long term because NO ONE KNOWS THE LONG TERM EFFECTS, BENEFICIAL OR NEGATIVE. So don't come here saying how you're Dr.Anti-B5 or something without any evidence.

:clap:

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That is such bullshit. How the hell do you know B5 kills?

From Wikpedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biotin

Biotin deficiency

Biotin deficiency is a rare nutritional disorder caused by a deficiency of biotin. Biotin deficiency can have a very serious, even fatal, outcome if it is allowed to progress without treatment. Signs and symptoms of biotin deficiency can develop in persons of any age, race, or gender. Biotin deficiency rarely occurs in healthy individuals, since the daily requirements of biotin are low, many foods contain adequate amounts, intestinal bacteria synthesize small amounts, and the body effectively scavenges and recycles biotin from bodily waste. However, deficiency can be caused by excessive consumption of raw egg-whites over a long period (months to years). Egg-whites contain high levels of avidin, a protein that binds biotin stongly. Once a biotin-avidin complex forms, the bond is essentially irreversible. The biotin-avidin complex is not broken down nor liberated during digestion, and the biotin-avidin complex is lost in the feces. Once cooked, the egg-white avidin becomes denatured and entirely non-toxic.

Initial symptoms of biotin deficiency include:

Dry skin

Seborrheic dermatitis

Fungal infections

Rashes including erythematous periorofacial macular rash

Fine and brittle hair

Hair loss or total alopecia

If left untreated, neurological symptoms can develop, including:

Mild depression, which may progress to profound lassitude and, eventually, to somnolence

Changes in mental status

Generalized muscular pains (myalgias)

Hyperesthesias and paresthesias

The treatment for biotin deficiency is to simply start taking some biotin supplements.

And this:

B vitamins Deficiency

Several named vitamin deficiency diseases may result from the lack of sufficient B-vitamins.

Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) deficiency causes Beriberi. Symptoms of this disease of the nervous system include weight loss, emotional disturbances, Wernicke's encephalopathy (impaired sensory perception), weakness and pain in the limbs, periods of irregular heartbeat, and edema (swelling of bodily tissues). Heart failure and death may occur in advanced cases.

Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) deficiency causes Ariboflavinosis. Symptoms may include cheilosis (cracks in the lips), angular stomatitis, glossitis (inflammation of the tongue), seborrheic dermatitis or pseudo-syphilis (particularly affecting the scrotum or labia majora and the mouth), pharyngitis, hyperemia, and edema of the pharyngeal and oral mucosa]].

Vitamin B3 (Niacin) deficiency, along with a deficiency of tryptophan causes Pellagra. Symptoms include high sensitivity to sunlight, aggression, dermatitis, insomnia, weakness, mental confusion, and diarrhea. In advanced cases, pellagra may lead to dementia and death.

Deficiencies of other B vitamins result in symptoms that are not part of a named deficiency disease.

Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic acid) deficiency can result in Paresthesia, although it is uncommon.

Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine) deficiency may lead to anemia, depression, dermatitis, high blood pressure (hypertension) and elevated levels of homocysteine.

Vitamin B8 deficiency does not typically cause symptoms in adults but may lead to impaired growth and neurological disorders in infants.

Vitamin B9 (Folic acid) deficiency results in elevated levels of homocysteine.

Vitamin B11 (not Vitamin B9) deficiency in pregnant women can lead to birth defects.

Vitamin B12 (Cyanocobalamin) deficiency causes pernicious anemia, memory loss and other cognitive decline. It is most likely to occur among elderly people as absorption through the gut declines with age. In extreme (fortunately rare) cases paralysis can result.

So, to answer your question: Yes, prolonged deficiencies in B complex vitamins CAN lead to death.

And that research took me less than 5 minutes.

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Excuse me .. actually Accutane is safer because you are UNDER A DOCTORS CARE and are always being checked! And yes juss because B5 doesn't damage you itself it causes you to be deficient in other vitmains which yes can be deadly so excuse me .. don't go telling people it is safe when it isnt are you some Doctor?

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So, to answer your question: Yes, prolonged deficiencies in B complex vitamins CAN lead to death.

And that research took me less than 5 minutes.

5 minutes of research, years and years and years of pretentious insincerity. your aggression makes me head hurt.

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maybe "playground love" is very immature and needs to do her research before attempting to back something up that is complete bullshit.

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http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002410.htm

Straight from the NIH. Even the NIH does not say B5 causes deficiency of other B vitamins. That's probably some BS those B5 advocates made up. That's about as legitimate a source as you can get.

And FieryLove, I never said B5 was safe. I just said I don't know if it does harm or good long term.

Accutane is safe because it's monitored by a doctor? Give me a break. If you slowly cut your wrist, and I was a doctor who monitored you, would you consider that safe?

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5 minutes of research, years and years and years of pretentious insincerity. your aggression makes me head hurt.

Pretentious, LOL. Pot meet Kettle.

Your head hurts because you're such a stupid little ninny.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002410.htm

Straight from the NIH. Even the NIH does not say B5 causes deficiency of other B vitamins. That's probably some BS those B5 advocates made up. That's about as legitimate a source as you can get.

And FieryLove, I never said B5 was safe. I just said I don't know if it does harm or good long term.

Accutane is safe because it's monitored by a doctor? Give me a break. If you slowly cut your wrist, and I was a doctor who monitored you, would you consider that safe?

Actually, one of the sites I got my information from encourages megadoses of vitamins for the treatment of various ailments:

http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com/megadosing.html

Megadoses : In recent years, taking megadoses (amounts that considerably exceed Canada's RNI's) of certain vitamins and minerals has become popular, both to enhance general health and to treat specific illnesses. Nobel laureat Linus Pauling, perhaps best known for his theories on Vitamin C and the common cold, is among the advocates of megavitamin therapy. Pauling contends that the U.S. RDA's,( Recommended Daily Allowance) which are more or less comparable to Canada's RNI's, are completely inadequate for maintaining optimum health.

Many of Pauling's ideas have focused on Vitamin C, and it's use in combatting not just colds, but a number of common diseases. He explains that while most mammals manufacture their own Vitamin C, humans cannot and are therefore dependant upon food sources, which, according to Pauling, do not supply nearly enough to ensure optimal health in not only the absence of disease but also a state of mental and physical well-being.

Most scientists say that excessive amounts of Vitamins A, D and B6 and some minerals such as solenium can produce some unpleasant effects. Pregnant women are advised against taking excessive amounts of vitamins or minerals, particularly Vitamin A, which can cause abnormalities.

Vitamins as Therapy : Natural practitioners and nutritionally oriented physicians are not the only ones using vitamins and minerals to treat specific ailments. Among orthodox physicians, it is standard medical practice to prescribe Zinc for patients undergoing dialysis, for alcoholics suffering from cirrhosis who have vision problems, and for others suffering deficiencies. Other established uses include Iron for the treatment of iron-deficiency anemia, B12 for pernicious anemia, Vitamin A (Accutane) for severe acne, and Niacin to lower triglyceride and cholesterol levels in patients suffering from coronary artery disease. This last usage is said to be safer than any of the widely used prescription drugs.

Latest News : Studies reported in the popular press often give rise to distorted notions about what we can expect from certain supplements. Take Calcium for example; While most physicians would recommend Calcium supplements for their patients at risk for osteoporosis, there is still little conclusive evidence that the mineral alone will have much effect on adults, after the onset of the disease. You should not undertake to treat specific ailments or injuries with vitamins and minerals without expert advice.

Alan R. Gaby,MD, is a physician and proponent of the use of supplements for treating certain conditions. Based on his findings, Dr. Gaby offers the following opinions on possible therapeutic uses for vitamins and minerals.

But the site warns this about B vitamin megadosing:

Warning: For best results all other vitamins of B complex should be administered simultaneously. Prolonged ingestion of large doses of any one of the isolated B complex vitamins may result in high urinary losses of other B vitamins and lead to deficiency of these vitamins.

It also warns:

** Some things to keep in mind. **

Vitamins A & D should be taken intermitantly. one month on, one month off.

Vitamin E should not be taken in doses over 600 IU's and must be labelled D-Alphatocopherol.

The B family of vitamins should be taken as a family and not individually. B-complex should always accompany any individual B vitamin.

Zinc should be taken independantly from the regular vitamin/minerals.

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From the site:

http://chetday.com/vitaminbdeficiencies.html

DO YOU HAVE ANY OF THESE SYMPTOMS?

Once your body has been deprived of the vitamin B complex due to reasons stated above, it begins to show symptoms (signs) of altered, diminished or poor health. This is because the vitamin B complex (within foods, not vitamin pills) is responsible for such a wide variety of activities, including cellular differentiation, transmission of nerve electricity, health of nerve cells, heart pulse rate, muscular contraction, digestion, brain function, thought processes and energy production. Without adequate vitamin B complex from foods, you can experience one or more of any one of these symptoms:

mental problems

heart palpitations

heart arrythmias

fibrillation

indigestion

chronic fatigue

chronic exhaustion

paranoia, vague fears, fear that something dreadful is about to happen

nervousness

ADD (attention deficiency), inability to concentrate, irritability

feeling of uneasiness

thoughts of dying

easy agitation, frustration

inability to sleep (insomnia)

restlessness

tingling in hands

fingers and toes

rashes

crying spells, inability to cope

soreness all over

and so much more.

There are more articles on this subject on http://www.healthscienceupdate.com.

CHRONIC VITAMIN B DEFICIENCY

Vitamin B deficiency can sneak up on you, because it doesn’t have to create serious health problems right away. In fact, medical researchers have discovered that very often there can be no detectable signs according to scientific instrumentation, that you are experiencing a deficiency. For example, “memory impairment due to vitamin B12 deficiency can precede blood symptoms of deficiency by years. Evidence that vitamin B12 deficiency accounts for some cognition deficits in older people comes from a study that revealed abnormal short-term memory in more than two-thirds of clients with pernicious anemia…The researchers recommend that a diagnosis of senile dementia should not be made, even in the absence of anemia, until vitamin B12 status is determined biochemically.� (Hamilton, p. 476) This means that it is possible that certain mental disorders can be directly attributable to vitamin B complex deficiency, and it is easier to first start replenishing stores of vitamin B complex than to begin treating difficult mental illnesses with drugs, therapy or psychological counseling.

When vitamin B deficiency becomes chronic (long-lasting), other problems can occur, including troubles with your adrenal system. The adrenal glands serve many purposes, but in relation to this topic, they are the back up system for making energy. When there is a chronic lack of vitamin B complex then the adrenal glands are called upon to produce quick energy by injecting certain hormones like adrenaline into your system so that you can cope with life. If this goes on for a long time, then the adrenal glands become impaired or worn out, leading to even more health problems.

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Are there any theories as to exactly what action B5 megadosing has on the body, either directly or indirectly with regards to androgen levels and other vitamins / minerals, adrenals, etc? There seems to be lots of contradictory information regarding it's and other natural treatments actions. I'm guessing that somehow it's increasing DHT in the follicle for it to accelerate MPB but maybe that means my skins more susceptible to Free Testosterone of which there will be less if B5 is assisting in converting it into DHT.

with regards to MPB, do we know if this a permanent side effect?

i can only guess the same as you, there may be other factors to MPB but high levels of DHT is the main one. we know that DHT is formed when our body's 5a-reductase enzyme converts free roaming testosterone DHT inside the hair cell follicle. If B5 is elevating these levels we really need to know whether its the Type I or Type II 5ar thats the culprit.

I'm currently taking 1 mg of Finasteride (Propecia) that reduces DHT produced by the type II 5ar by 85%-90% and reduces the overall DHT blood serum levels by 65%.

Nizoral 2% shampoo may be an option to anyone experiencing hair loss.

It is thought to help "dull" the androgen receptors in the scalp which the DHT binds to.

I use it twice a week.

I'm going to start taking B5 this week so I hope it doesn't make my hair loss worse -

although sorting out my acne is number 1 priority, MPB is my other "issue".

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with regards to MPB, do we know if this a permanent side effect?

I don't know if it's a permanent side effect, but I guess if you were destined to lose your hair anyway in the future B5 somehow speeds up that process by flooding the follicles with more DHT produced by Type II 5ar. If you stopped taking B5 then I guess the DHT levels in the follicle would be reduced and so your hair might start growing back when faced with normal levels of DHT.

The fact you're taking Propecia could reduce the overall effectiveness of megadosing B5, but again this is only a theory. I think that oily skin and the resulting acne is often caused by Testosterone rather than DHT. B5 aids either directly or indirectly in converting Testosterone to DHT and as a result you have less testosterone in your blood which means less oily skin, but more DHT, which means more hairloss. By blocking the conversion of Testosterone to DHT using other means, e.g. Propecia, B5 won't be able to turn the testosterone in your blood into DHT meaning it's effectiveness is reduced.

Again this is only yet another theory and until some official studies are done or until someone can find a doctor who is kind enough to give them multiple blood tests before and after taking B5 we are never going to know exactly how it works or how it causes the side effects it does.

Cheers

Craig

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Are there any theories as to exactly what action B5 megadosing has on the body, either directly or indirectly with regards to androgen levels and other vitamins / minerals, adrenals, etc? There seems to be lots of contradictory information regarding it's and other natural treatments actions. I'm guessing that somehow it's increasing DHT in the follicle for it to accelerate MPB but maybe that means my skins more susceptible to Free Testosterone of which there will be less if B5 is assisting in converting it into DHT.

with regards to MPB, do we know if this a permanent side effect?

i can only guess the same as you, there may be other factors to MPB but high levels of DHT is the main one. we know that DHT is formed when our body's 5a-reductase enzyme converts free roaming testosterone DHT inside the hair cell follicle. If B5 is elevating these levels we really need to know whether its the Type I or Type II 5ar thats the culprit.

I'm currently taking 1 mg of Finasteride (Propecia) that reduces DHT produced by the type II 5ar by 85%-90% and reduces the overall DHT blood serum levels by 65%.

Nizoral 2% shampoo may be an option to anyone experiencing hair loss.

It is thought to help "dull" the androgen receptors in the scalp which the DHT binds to.

I use it twice a week.

I'm going to start taking B5 this week so I hope it doesn't make my hair loss worse -

although sorting out my acne is number 1 priority, MPB is my other "issue".

Brioni,

This is intended as a just a quick heads up. Your two issues may be related, in that, your desire to treat hair loss may be hampering your desire to maintain skin clarity. I have dealt with both hair thinning and acne at the same time, and some of the 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors will actually cause acne to worsen. It has been argued by many that if you cut down DHT you will have an increase in Free Testosterone, and, as a corollary, an increase in acne. Don't forget that the 5-alpha. inh., do nothing to block the androgen receptor from elevated levels of Free Test., so you may have a problem on your hands. I have used both Finasteride and Dutasteride and I had big problems with acne severity 2 weeks in. You need something that will compete with testosterone and DHT at the receptor site (Spironolactone). Use the aforesaid with caution as it may feminize at some of the higher doses that it is prescribed at. Low doses of 25mgs a day should be fine, but always consult with a doctor.

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Hi,

From memory i think my hair loss started occurring at the temples around the age of 20 which was when I was starting to get the odd whitehead as well. a couple of years later mild/moderate acne had occurred and I wasted time trying out many cleansers and gels. I went to the doctors in 2004 because the cysts on my t-zone were too painful, she prescribed me 2 x 500 mg of Oxytetracycline which i still take to this day. I have had some success with it, less oily skin and the cysts are less severe when I do get them. In April 2005 I started the 1 mg a day of Fin treatment. My acne has not got worse since taking it. As for hair loss, my temples are still receding but it may have improved my crown - still this is the area the drug targets the most. I have just ordered another 15 months supply, I think its worth it for the price I pay.

As you say there maybe some correlation between the two within the body, but i'm satisfied my acne has not got worse. I'm hoping to gradually come off Oxytetracycline now I have started to take B5 powder.

Oily skin is horrendous, I'll be disappointed if 10 gms B5 does not have an effect in 1 month but i'll just have to stick it out.

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I think that oily skin and the resulting acne is often caused by Testosterone ...

Androgen, actually. I could be wrong, but I do think they are two different hormones.

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Holy crap. OD'ing on vits can seriously fuck with your internal organs and your bodys ability to function correctly.

I will give you an example:

During the winter I was on the bulking cycle of my body building and I was heavily on suppliments including: Creatine, vit E, vit C, 200g protein a day, Glucosamine and multi vits and Oxytera for my skin (2 x300mg)

Consiquently this had a horrific effect on my health including: one visit to hospital because I had a mosquito bite on my arm which spread to my chest and risked my life, an infected right testicle and an operation to explore (not fun I tell thee) , fatigue due to massive amounts of protein.

The final straw was when I could barely move out of bed because of kidney pain on a overdose on vit E in a ignorant attempt to help my skin.

Well the point of this blind ignorance and stupidity is do your reasearch on the risks and understand whether your skin/muscles/mojo or whatever is worth loading your body up. I would happily have a zit on my nose and walk to the shops rather than have no hair and shitting water.

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lol i agree with you Jim Davidson .. but some people are juss exteremly ignorant and vanity is more important then their overall health .. when actually beign healthy .. eating in moderation and exerc ising is what can prevent acne. Streghten your immune systems people not destroy it.

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vanity? thats not the main issue for many. how about the psychological aspect of it? the low confidence and self-esteem it brings, the fact you get to the point where you can't look people in the eye. from a social/career development point of view it can put you back years.

Not to mention the constant pain and irritation from stubborn cysts that have to be picked and prodded with a needle because no amount of BP will get rid of em.

> Jim Davidson. thats interesting, like you i'm in a bulking up phase, taking protein/carb shakes along with my 1000mg of oxytetra (which i've been prescribed for over 2 years). unfortunately i get hayfever as well and have to take 10 mg of Loratadine. i've done Creatine, Glucosamine, ZMA, NO2, Vanadyl supplements + 1mg Fin as mentioned along with oxytetra and always been able to produce a sold shit. i guess i'm lucky that my body can tolerate it.

i'm stepping up to 10 gms of B5 tomorrow so lets hope I stay lucky.

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you ppl are rediculous health should b ur main priority not your acne ..bc exercise and eating right actually will help your acne alot .. and if that doesn't then maybe considering accutane .. bc it seems to work amazingly for people .. and BP doesnt work for everyone i understand that .. but there are many other topicals out there that u can benefit from rather than taking 30 pills a day. if i had to choose between ane + beign healthy or .. no acne and being sick all the time .. i would choose to have acne .. bc i would know acne is easier to heal than a damaged liver or immune system.

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how is it being ridiculous?

i pride myself in taking good care of my health. i have made many sacrifices, eating right, drinking loads of water, exercising. did it reduce levels sebum - no. as for accutane, the derm would not prescribe it on the basis that it is too higher toxic drug with too many side effects to put my body at risk. only in a severe case would i get it.

and how about Dans own experience on accutane that ended in permanent side-effects http://www.acne.org/accutane.html

whats the greater risk? at least with B5 you could come off it a month or 2 and what seems to me go back to normal including our crap skin.

again lets not forget acne lowers our quality of life, hours per month spending time in the bathroom, constantly washing, cleansing, toning, moisturising, treating areas, healing scars. it doesn't end does it? ever get fed up of that?

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atleats acctuane is permanent in most cases unfrotunately Dan wasn't like everyone else but he did say his acne was never as bad as it was before Accutane. Also B5 does not keep the acne away forever once u sotp tkaing it ur acne is back and possibly even more severe .. so is there a poitn to go on B5 for like 2 months juss to have clear skin for thsoe 2 months? not to mention the potential damage u are doing to ur body while taking these megadoses. Does any of that make sense no it doesnt. Take B5 sure but the recommended dosage it is clear to em that Recommended Dosage isnt just there for laughs its there for good reason. So unles su wanna take 20g or maybe more of B5 ur whole life be my guess bc it eill ineveitably kill you .. it is pintless to take a high dosages of soemthing that wont even cure u .. it will juss all come back. Plus if this is true "i pride myself in taking good care of my health" then you wouldnt b taking any huge dosages of B5 .. seeing as you know so much about health.

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my god, based on your guesses we could have a lot of dead board members on here soon. 20 g, popping 50, 100 pills where are you getting this from?

its a loading dose of 10g and then 1-6 thereafter. according to the NIH there is no established "recommended daily allowances" for this vitamin. but should i really be taking 1000mg of Oxytetra a day for the rest of my life? which is what i'm lead to believe by a derm to be the safe option??

link me a credible medical resource or study that specifically states that B5 is gonna cause me all this damage your talking about...

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