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Hey everybody, I have been a vegan for about a month of a half and my skin has gotten considerably better. For those of you who dont know, a vegan doesnt eat any animal products whatsoever. No meat, milk, butter, eggs, whey, gelatin, and a plethera of other things. While this may seem crazy, impossible and extreme, maybe you guys should try it if not only for acne. I became a vetgan after reasearching animal cruelty in this country (factory farming is the ultimate evil), and better skin has been a welcome side effect. PM me with any questions.

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Veganism is a bad long term diet as far as health. If you're going to do it, do it for moral reasons, because the health factor just isn't there for most people. There are some who can thrive on it, but that's a small percentage. For one, you have no good source of the essential fatty acids DHA and EPA, you can only get their plant versions which many people are unable to convert to DHA / EPA. You only have vegetarian protein which many people cannot thrive on. You have no source of B-12.

A healthier version is lacto-ovo vegetarianism, where you can eat milk / egg products. Just being able to eat omega-3 eggs solves the whole EPA/DHA, protein and vitamin B-12 dilemna.

Personally I minimize my meat consumption as much as possible, eat only organic, free range eggs / dairy (but I just cut out dairy...) and eat vegetarian friendly things like tofu and tempeh... But I still think meat has a place in the diet, albeit a smaller one.

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While you make some good arguments, Veganism can definately be a healthy-long term diet. Vegans have been found to have a longer lifetime by anywhere from 5-10 years and are also a million times less likely to get a range of diseases that come from eating meat. While many think that B12 cannot be found in anything except animal products, this is false. It can be synthetically made according to my doctor. 1 glass of my SILK soy milk gives me 50% of my necesary daily value.

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While you make some good arguments, Veganism can definately be a healthy-long term diet. Vegans have been found to have a longer lifetime by anywhere from 5-10 years and are also a million times less likely to get a range of diseases that come from eating meat. While many think that B12 cannot be found in anything except animal products, this is false. It can be synthetically made according to my doctor. 1 glass of my SILK soy milk gives me 50% of my necesary daily value.

I doubt that's the way we were intended to get b12.

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I too have been following a vegan diet for a little over a month... and Ive had a lot of improvement. The only thing I STRICTLY avoid is dairy because my skin reacts the worst to that. So, if I'm at a restaurant with poor vegan options, I'll eat chicken or eggs, sometimes beef, but NEVER (or, as little as possible) dairy.

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You are right, nature didnt want us to get B12 synthetically. But, think of everyday life. We are so out of touch with nature with our cell phones, cars, and processed foods. I think that getting B12 unnaturally in order to not support suffering is fine. Nature didn't intend us to eat pre-packaged meat with every meal that has most likely been filled with horomones and came from an animal who led a miserable existance. If you want to be a naturalist, go out and hunt your own meat.

sorry if i sounded like a jerk. that wasn't meant to have an angry tone haha

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You can get decent quality meat, though.

Then again, I don't eat meat all that much because I can't really afford the organic stuff. And I do take a b12 supplement. So I'm not against that... but I don't think there is anything wrong with organic/free-range eggs... or wild salmon... or kefir or yogurt made from organic goat's milk. Those are all very healthy things, IMO.

You might want to reconsider drinking soy milk, though: http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html

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You are right, nature didnt want us to get B12 synthetically. But, think of everyday life. We are so out of touch with nature with our cell phones, cars, and processed foods. I think that getting B12 unnaturally in order to not support suffering is fine. Nature didn't intend us to eat pre-packaged meat with every meal that has most likely been filled with horomones and came from an animal who led a miserable existance. If you want to be a naturalist, go out and hunt your own meat.

sorry if i sounded like a jerk. that wasn't meant to have an angry tone haha

we're at the top of the food chain, why shouldn't we eat meat?

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Nature worked pretty damn hard to afford us the ability to not have to hunt. Every animal in the wilderness would gladly trade positions if they had the intelligence and technology.

Anyway, I just finished downing a giant-ass steak and I wouldn't trade that experience for a lifetime. I know the animals aren't suffering, either, because I live right next to them and watch them pretty frequently. For whatever reason, I really love cows. Actually, the meat I just ate was from a few towns over, but I've seen their farm, too. No suffering, just grazing and hanging out.

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Nonfermented soy is poison.

Fish are about as intelligent as insects. There are insects parts in produce and juices. I fail to see the moral objection here. Buy wild fish not because of farming cruelity, but because it's healthier.

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I was vegetarian/vegan for ten years, from the age of 18-28. In my early twenties, I became vegan, and was vegan off and on for five years, and strictly vegan during a couple of those years. I ate the "model" vegan diet, lots of brown rice, other whole grains, all kind of beans, tofu, tempeh, nuts and tons of veggies, including sea vegetables. It was during this time that I developed acne.. My menstrual cramps have been wicked, sometimes to the point of making me vomit, throughout most of my twenties. A few months ago, I found out I'm extremely anemic.

I did all types of diet modifications for acne, except for adding animal products. Completely eliminating sugar and wheat definitely helped (my acne, but not my cramps), but recently, that hasn't even been enough. A couple months ago, I starting eating eggs and fish and a little bit of dairy, and just about a week ago, I started to eat meat for the first time since I was a teenager. The anemia was what convinced me.

Ultimately, more than I believe in veg ethics, I believe in addressing diet first in any disorder. Obviously, if I'm anemic, I'm not getting what I need from my diet.

I'd almost be willing to bet that people that clear up on a vegan diet do so because they quit eating dairy. If you've been eating meat all your life, it can be a nice way to cleanse too, but I would be mindful if you do it long term.

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While you make some good arguments, Veganism can definately be a healthy-long term diet. Vegans have been found to have a longer lifetime by anywhere from 5-10 years and are also a million times less likely to get a range of diseases that come from eating meat. While many think that B12 cannot be found in anything except animal products, this is false. It can be synthetically made according to my doctor. 1 glass of my SILK soy milk gives me 50% of my necesary daily value.

I've actually heard vegans live less long then meat eaters. Only certain individuals can be on a vegan diet, it just doesn't work for everyone. We've been eating meat for thousands of years and our bodies have adapted to that way of eating, so to cut out all animal products completely can be a shock to many peoples's systems. Vegans can also have higher chances of certain diseases for instance I've heard it stated they're more likely to get Alzheimer's and other brain-degenerative diseases because they lack a certain long-chain fatty acid in their diet found only in animal products and not in the plant kingdom. Let's not forget that no culture has ever been on a long term vegan diet, while some have adapted vegetarian diets mostly for religious / spiritual reasons, such as Hindus in South India and Buddhists elsewhere in Asia. I agree, all the processed meat was not what nature intended, but I also think we should strive to eat organic meat once in awhile and not cut it out completely. On a final note, like most others have said, modern soy processing is bad times. The unfermented version of it has given many people problems - you may argue that your Asian neighbor can tolerate it fine, but keep in mind they've been ingesting soy for a thousand years and have adapted to it - but many Asians are lactose intolerant. On the flipside, theres very few Whites that are lactose intolerant because of our long history with dairy, but soy milk and other unfermented soy products can give us problems. Personally I still eat tofu but that's about it.

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Veganism is a bad long term diet as far as health. If you're going to do it, do it for moral reasons, because the health factor just isn't there for most people. There are some who can thrive on it, but that's a small percentage. For one, you have no good source of the essential fatty acids DHA and EPA, you can only get their plant versions which many people are unable to convert to DHA / EPA. You only have vegetarian protein which many people cannot thrive on. You have no source of B-12.

A healthier version is lacto-ovo vegetarianism, where you can eat milk / egg products. Just being able to eat omega-3 eggs solves the whole EPA/DHA, protein and vitamin B-12 dilemna.

Personally I minimize my meat consumption as much as possible, eat only organic, free range eggs / dairy (but I just cut out dairy...) and eat vegetarian friendly things like tofu and tempeh... But I still think meat has a place in the diet, albeit a smaller one.

I agree. I've met a lot of former vegans who had to add fish, eggs, and some dairy into their diet because their hair was falling out and they felt sick all the time. Not saying that this is the experience of all vegans because I know it's not. However, I've met quite a few. The health food store I used to frequent had 2 employees just in that one store who didn't do well with going totally vegan long-term.

Mariel Hemingway has related the same experience as well, and she is a full-fledged carnivore now.

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A vegan diet can be healthy but its super hard and pricey to maintain getting the proper amounts of nutrients.

I tried out the vegan diet a year or so ago and found with my crazy school/work schedule I couldn't maintain it. I wasn't getting enough nutrients etc etc.

Good luck!

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simpsin, could you tell me where about on your face you used to get most acne before you went vegan and whether or not you drank milk before thankyou.

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I definately used to drink milk, one or two glasses a day. I used to have acne mostly on my cheecks and by my mouth, basically the lower parts of my face. I still have acne, but its considerably better.

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While you make some good arguments, Veganism can definately be a healthy-long term diet. Vegans have been found to have a longer lifetime by anywhere from 5-10 years and are also a million times less likely to get a range of diseases that come from eating meat. While many think that B12 cannot be found in anything except animal products, this is false. It can be synthetically made according to my doctor. 1 glass of my SILK soy milk gives me 50% of my necesary daily value.

I doubt that's the way we were intended to get b12.

Most of people's vitamins are fortified into things (eggs, milk, cheese) for example. Plus cereals and juices. And many others. Do you not eat those because they are either 1)not naturally there 2)the nutrients are destroyed in processes to kill bacteria such as pasteurization? 3)If they weren't fortified they would lose their natural nutrients. I mean I doubt we were intended to get those vitamins (such as calcium from milk) that way...

A vegan diet can be healthy but its super hard and pricey to maintain getting the proper amounts of nutrients.

I tried out the vegan diet a year or so ago and found with my crazy school/work schedule I couldn't maintain it. I wasn't getting enough nutrients etc etc.

Good luck!

Most people don't get enough nutrients they need without supplementation. Modern people do not sit down and cook big meals from every food group that are very nutritious. They will eat a hamburger and fries for dinner just an example. You won't get the proper amounts that way. So vegan or not, you need supplemental vitamins.

Nature worked pretty damn hard to afford us the ability to not have to hunt. Every animal in the wilderness would gladly trade positions if they had the intelligence and technology.

Anyway, I just finished downing a giant-ass steak and I wouldn't trade that experience for a lifetime. I know the animals aren't suffering, either, because I live right next to them and watch them pretty frequently. For whatever reason, I really love cows. Actually, the meat I just ate was from a few towns over, but I've seen their farm, too. No suffering, just grazing and hanging out.

It isn't only because they suffer that is a problem. It is also because raising something just to kill them later to be between two pieces of bread does not seem right (to vegetarians/vegans). Now I do not know, if you know, that most animals do not graze outside and live happy lives and then trod jubilantly to their deaths so you can eat them. Most of the meat on the market is from animals that do not live good lives, and are artificially forced grown through a series of methods, and live in cages most of their lives. You can believe they aren't suffering if you wish though because you love cows lol.

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Actually according to new research done, Fish have been observed to have feelings. Something which insects do not, so therefore FIsh > insects.

and still tastier. ;-)

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Most of people's vitamins are fortified into things (eggs, milk, cheese) for example. Plus cereals and juices. And many others. Do you not eat those because they are either 1)not naturally there 2)the nutrients are destroyed in processes to kill bacteria such as pasteurization? 3)If they weren't fortified they would lose their natural nutrients. I mean I doubt we were intended to get those vitamins (such as calcium from milk) that way...

Most people don't get enough nutrients they need without supplementation. Modern people do not sit down and cook big meals from every food group that are very nutritious. They will eat a hamburger and fries for dinner just an example. You won't get the proper amounts that way. So vegan or not, you need supplemental vitamins.

How are eggs fortified? They just open the shell, put in some synthetic vitamins and patch it back up? Eggs are only fortified through what they feed to the chickens, i.e. flax meal to make Omega-3 eggs.

Cereal and juice fortifying generally uses the cheapest synthetic vitamins and minerals available. I don't think they do too much other then keeping you from going anemic, personally...

I think if people actually followed what many MAINSTREAM dietary sources say (eat lots of fresh fruits / vegetables, limit meat consumption to weekly, buy organic, eat more fish, avoid refined grains / eat whole grains), they'd be a lot healthier. But that's just not the reality of it, so I guess eating a standard American diet does mean you should supplement but really we should get all our vitamins from foods. Minerals can be a different story because our soils are mineral-depleted in a lot of areas.. But vitamins, come on now. All I need to do is eat a few egg yolks and I have vitamin A, D and E as well as some B-vitamins, a few green veggies and I've got calcium, vitamin C, vitamin K, beta carotene and a plethora of antioxidants and phytonutrients that scientists are just now able to isolate, and a piece of whole grain bread and there's the family of B-vitamins covered. It's really not hard.

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Most of people's vitamins are fortified into things (eggs, milk, cheese) for example. Plus cereals and juices. And many others. Do you not eat those because they are either 1)not naturally there 2)the nutrients are destroyed in processes to kill bacteria such as pasteurization? 3)If they weren't fortified they would lose their natural nutrients. I mean I doubt we were intended to get those vitamins (such as calcium from milk) that way...

Most people don't get enough nutrients they need without supplementation. Modern people do not sit down and cook big meals from every food group that are very nutritious. They will eat a hamburger and fries for dinner just an example. You won't get the proper amounts that way. So vegan or not, you need supplemental vitamins.

How are eggs fortified? They just open the shell, put in some synthetic vitamins and patch it back up? Eggs are only fortified through what they feed to the chickens, i.e. flax meal to make Omega-3 eggs.

Cereal and juice fortifying generally uses the cheapest synthetic vitamins and minerals available. I don't think they do too much other then keeping you from going anemic, personally...

I think if people actually followed what many MAINSTREAM dietary sources say (eat lots of fresh fruits / vegetables, limit meat consumption to weekly, buy organic, eat more fish, avoid refined grains / eat whole grains), they'd be a lot healthier. But that's just not the reality of it, so I guess eating a standard American diet does mean you should supplement but really we should get all our vitamins from foods. Minerals can be a different story because our soils are mineral-depleted in a lot of areas.. But vitamins, come on now. All I need to do is eat a few egg yolks and I have vitamin A, D and E as well as some B-vitamins, a few green veggies and I've got calcium, vitamin C, vitamin K, beta carotene and a plethora of antioxidants and phytonutrients that scientists are just now able to isolate, and a piece of whole grain bread and there's the family of B-vitamins covered. It's really not hard.

Eggs that are put through methods of killing bacteria must be fortified just as milk does because the vitamins are totally depleted. I don't really understand what you mean when you say the cereal and juice only have enough vitamins to prevent vitamin deficiencies yet you say a piece of whole grain bread would cover the B Vitamins (when there is like 6% of b1 in a slice of sprouted wheat bread just as an example. and sprouted wheat bread is one of the best breads out there) And calcium will be covered by just a few green veggies. If that is how you get your vitamins then you get less than the minimal amount of vitamins and minerals, you would do better eating fortified cereals and drinking juices...And my whole post was a response to someone saying that nature didn't intend (something along those lines) that we get b12 from soy milk that was just put in and not naturally there, and I explained MANY MANY things are fortified.

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1) Thank you to the people who are managing to keep this topic both informative and on topic.

2) Let's not argue the morality of veganism vs. meat eating, please. If you'd like, please start that topic up in the Lounge.

Thank you and have a nice day. :)

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