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marsbound2024

The Clear Skin Regimen and the War on Acne

Well I am new to this forum and will make this my first post. I have been somewhat loyally using the clear skin regimen and that is a fault. It is a bit difficult to train yourself to follow something consistently even after acne seems to be clearing up. It's as if you are like, "Ok, it's going away... I don't want to irritate my skin!" It is just an instinctive response really.

My acne is moderate and very irritating because I am fair-complected. It is quite difficult to obtain a lasting tan while trying not to sunburn. I have recently started a pretty good schedule for tanning which I think will help. Anyways, I have been applying 2.5% benzoyl peroxide with the "On-the-Spot" (yet not) treatment. It has noticeably improved my situation.

(NOTE: If any allusions below are hard to follow, please look at the next post as a guide to help you; you can also do some googling.)

Here are a few of my thoughts that some of you can either share or oppose (if you do disagree, please state the reasons so I may be able to rectify the situation either by correcting my mistakes or otherwise):

1. Your skin is the first line of defense (a nonspecific defense--unfortunately in the case of acne, it's the Maginot Line--pretty much ineffectual); the pores within your skin allow for you to excrete wastes, grow hair, and help keep pathogens away via the production of sebaceous oil--which also helps prevent dryness and cracking of the skin.

2. Androgens (such as testosterone) are at higher levels during puberty when "your horomones are 'all out of whack/going crazy';" this results in more production of sebum (the oil produced by sebaceous glands which also consists of dead skin cells) and the pores enlarge to compensate.

3. The effects of enlarged pores and heightened oil production brings about a larger opening for pathogens and a higher potential for blockage, respectively. Since acne vulgaris (common acne) enters the pores from the air, or being transfered from your fingernails, your skin may become inflammed as a reaction to the multiplication of the acne due to the favorable environment; P. acnes thrives on fatty acids--which is, not surprisingly, sebum is made up of lipids, thus P. acnes eats this.

4. Your skin's allergic reaction (inflammation) results in the redness. Sebum build-up under the skin by itself does not cause this, but may cause cysts; however, acne is virtually always present in some number.

5. Acne is relatively slow growing, but when it matures it can release enzymes that destroy the skin (thus the walls of a pore) and immogenic proteins, which alert the immune system like Paul Reveres that say 'The British are coming!'

6. Your immune system will undoubtebly find out and rush to repel the invaders. This war is always ongoing, but your sebaceous glands seem to sometimes root for the other team. Yes, the sebaceous glands are the Benedict Arnolds, arg! That's why we have products such as Accutane that can shut em' down like the 1920s tried to do with speakeasies and et cetera through Prohibition; but like Prohibition, Accutane can have some severe side-effects.

7. A generous amount of benzoyl peroxide as prescribed by the "Clear Skin Regimen" is basically throwing a bunch of French into the fray (although not useful today, helped win the Revolutionary War). There's no need in going 10% when 2.5% works just as well. Too much can irritate the skin (yup, we only wanted as many French as we needed and nothing more).

8. Your fingernails contain dirt and, of course, P. acnes. These are the Trojan Horses. They help us relieve an itch on our nose, but then the whole P. acnes army comes pouring out and raids and sets fire (inflammation) to the cities of Pore! There's little that can be done to stop the invasion despite the pores thinking they were protected from vast walls of skin, sebum, and the lymphocyte and macrophage warriors (wonder if there is a Hector in there; I know most of us wish our entire immune system was made up of Hectors--even though Hector was killed by Achilles, that's besides the point). Try to keep the Trojan Horses away from Troy as often as you can. Sometimes you could say that P. acnes hijacked some O2 molecules and flown them into two hair follicles when we were younger and started the "War on Terrorism" (I heard Osama P. Acnes claimed responsibility). Try to rub gently and avoid all scratching.

So here's what we have. Your body includes most of the nations of the world. Currently, in this situation, Britain and France have been exiled. Britain (a.k.a Propionibacterium acnes) is out to seek revenge and global domination via the invasion of several cities below skin level. The French (a.k.a. benzoyl peroxide) have decided to capitalize on themselves through sell of themselves in 2.5% or 10% solutions. Unfortunately, after the bad response the 10% solutions had (seems like the cities both below and on skin level got severely irritated, which caused situations to inflame), they decided to stick with 2.5%. This received a warm welcome from the bodyworld. A formerly hated individual in the United Kingdom (and still hated in the world), Osama P. Acnes, was recently invited to head Britain's "Strategic Invasion Force." Sources say the British were interested in his stealthy tactics and suicidal followers; no word on whether or not Osama P. Acnes "would wear out his usefulness" in the future. Tactics involved the the SIF (Strategic Invasion Force) include things akin to Trojan Horses and Boeing 747s.

Luckily, there's no counterproductive United Organs, Tissues and Cells in this scenario. We definitely don't need a communist [and cancerous] tumor voicing its opinion on the Security Council. It's up to you to stick to the "Clear Skin Regimen" which is the Constitution of the United Neurons of <your name here>. Good luck!

, marsbound2024 (John)

PS: May edit it sometime.

PPS: Please do not be offended by the political satire included in this thread! It in no way represents my true thoughts about the aforementioned nations or agencies. Since there is only one person monster hinted to--Osama bin Laden--I retain the right to reflect my opinions as well as the rest of the civilized humans across the world. Also, there is quite a bit of historical allusions if you haven't noticed. A bit of googling might be required for people who lack the knowledge even about Paul Revere. Thanks! All rights reserved... as per the Constitution of the United Neurons of John 'marsbound2024.'

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i don't know whether to agree or disagree, your british/french/trojan/revolutionary war/world war 2/war on terror analogy is really hard to follow. good to see you payed attention in history class...

I'm sorry, it's a bunch of historical analogies thrown in. There's no chronological order or anything. It's mainly for humor. When I analogize something, it is to be used in that instant and not really throughout the entire thing. Basically like: "Immogenic proteins alert the immune system just as Paul Revere alerted the Continental Army when the British were coming.'" Please read my edits and the note about historical references: a bit of googling may be required.

Respectfully, me

PS: When I was talking about agreeing or disagreeing, I meant the factual accuracy of how acne works.

EDIT: A bit of information follows:

Hector: Troy's famous warrior for his remarkable skills in fighting; he was a hero; he was killed by Achilles who served the Greeks I do believe (but was not a Greek himself)

Paul Revere: Alerted the Americans that "The British are coming!" which in this case, are the proteins that alert the immune system when invaders are present.

Maginot Line: The French line of defenses facing the German border most intensely, yet running the entire eastern French border. Thus, it was an extreme failure because the Germans just invaded Belgium and such to get to France (went around the main Maginot Line).

Osama P. Acnes: Obviously in reference to Osama bin Laden who is the leader of al Qaeda and claims responsibility for the events on Sept. 11, 2001; P. acnes is scientific name for acne. Acne is like a terrorist for many of us.

Two Hair Follicles: The Twin Towers; the O2 (oxygen) molecules are the seemingly innocent planes hijacked by terrorists on 9/11; bacteria can be transported by the air, thus oxygen.

"cities of Pore": These are the cities of Troy; Troy was burned by the Greek invaders who were transported in via the Trojan Horse; the walls of Troy were basically impenetrable so they had to devise a plan to invade Troy; there plan was to offer a horse as a gift; the citizens of Troy pulled the horse in and celebrated thinking the war was over; however, out poured Greek soldiers who killed the Trojan guards and opened the gates, allowing the rest of the Greek army to run in and siege Troy

United Organs, Tissues and Cells: This is a reference to the United Nations; the four permanent members with veto power are the United States, Republic of China, the United Kingdom, France, and Russia; the communist tumor is China.

The Constitution of the United Neurons of <your name here>: This is in reference to the United States; your brain makes all the decisions (including following this regimen), so it is "The Constitution of the United Neurons of <your name here>." The Constitution being the regimen and such.

Benedict Arnold: Traitor that was a general in the Continental Army during the Revolutionary War that wanted to surrender West Point (American fort) to the British; this would've basically split the colonies in half, giving the British a major advantage.

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wow dude u have a lot of time on your hands

I am going to say I dislike that post. I brainstormed the entire thing (I like to write, too) and have a pretty good, extensive knowledge on history and biology. I had to look up only a few things (such as the full name of acne and immunoic proteins). The whole post took me fifteen minutes or so. This may come as a surprise to you that I know what I am talking about and have spent maybe a total of forty-five minutes on these two posts plus a short chat session that is included within that time. So if forty-five minutes of leisure time is a lot of time on my hands (though I have about four hours of leisure time a day on the weekends, so that's pretty good), then so be it. But just because I didn't have to spend several hours looking up knowledge that is already in my head doesn't mean you should make such a comment (which is obviously meant in a negative manner). Also, I type around 104WPM on average, sometimes more, sometimes less.

, John

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Mars can u send me your tanning schedule! Thanks!

EDIT

PLEASE, thanks man, i just started tanning 2 cover up backne but i want 2 maintain the tan that i have now. I dont want to go outside 2 much and burn, but im also afraid this tan is going 2 wear off pretty soon.. thanks again... and great post.

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Mars can u send me your tanning schedule! Thanks!

EDIT

PLEASE, thanks man, i just started tanning 2 cover up backne but i want 2 maintain the tan that i have now. I dont want to go outside 2 much and burn, but im also afraid this tan is going 2 wear off pretty soon.. thanks again... and great post.

Ah hello there Godlike (in l337). Thank you for your kind remarks. Believe me, you can't be anymore fair complected than I am. I might be able to get a picture somewhere to show you. Anyways, here is what I do.

I take off everything except underwear and shorts and lay out facing the sun in order to expose my body fully. I have not used any sort of SPF lotion though I recommend it. I am just a lazy bum sometimes when it comes to tanning.

The first day I went out I exposed the front part of my body to about 15 minutes of ~3PM sun (which is less harsh than say noon to 2). I then lied on my back for approximately 10 minutes (though I would've stayed longer, it was uncomfortable).

I had very minor sunburns and even though they were no big deal, I decided not to go outside the second day (they disappeared the second day, too). I wanted to keep skin irritation at a minimum.

The second day I tanned, I was outside for about the same amount of time as the first day (actually a few minutes longer, but not by much). I developed a slight bit of a sunburn and didn't go the next day either. I also didn't go the day after that.

The third day (and most recent), I went outside and stayed for about forty-five minutes on one side and didn't even get fifteen on my back (that darn chair is uncomfortable laying on my stomach, so I will have to find a good position; otherwise I am going to have an uneven tan). I got quite a bit of relatively dark sunburn (not a bright red) and I did this around 3PM-4PM. I haven't been out since then, which was about two or three days ago. I plan on going outside tomorrow (well today, since it is almost 1AM my time--Central Time Zone). I have a relatively nice light tan, but unfortunately due to the positioning of my arms, my right arm is a bit lighter than my left. Thus I will have to compensate.

I am very happy with what I have been doing thus far. A little bit of sun has also helped my acne due to ultraviolet radiation (somewhat short exposures). Furthermore, the sun helps your skin synthesize Vitamin D.

http://dietary-supplements.info.nih.gov/fa...ts/vitamind.asp

If you want to start tanning, it is better to tan under the late-day Sun when it is less intense. 3, 4, or even close to 5PM may be beneficial. Hope this helps. If you want me to elaborate, please say so.

, John

PS: Don't expect to tan quickly. My skin is only slightly tanned at the moment, but I have only spent three days total, which seems to work thus far. It may take me a total of one month of tanning to get the tan I desire. Who knows, maybe a bit less. But let's say these are the steps: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 . Unfortunately the color scheme isn't just the best, but since I think I got it relatively close, I used to be a 1.75 or so, and now I am like a 2.75 with a goal of around 6-6.5. Good luck!

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Thanks John, ok a few questions...

- Can I tan all summer like that ( 3 or 4 days a week) to maintain a tan?

- Is it true that after you quit tanning your acne gets worse?

- Would you put Dans BP and AHA lotion on sunburned skin ( i stayed out for 45 minutes 2 days ago and have a mild sun burn on my shoulders)?

And your obviously a gamer lol?

- Thanks, Matt

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Thanks John, ok a few questions...

- Can I tan all summer like that ( 3 or 4 days a week) to maintain a tan?

- Is it true that after you quit tanning your acne gets worse?

- Would you put Dans BP and AHA lotion on sunburned skin ( i stayed out for 45 minutes 2 days ago and have a mild sun burn on my shoulders)?

And your obviously a gamer lol?

- Thanks, Matt

Hello Matt! My best friend is named Matt, lol. You can tan all summer, but at the first sign of a sunburn, take the next day off. If you tan with a sunburn, your skin won't get tan, but just get more sunburned and more skin dies, so you actually LOSE your tan quicker. You want to make sure you don't kill your skin too badly, haha. But if you can do it, three or four days a week is good. It depends on the complexion of your skin, really. Give me a number (doesn't have to be an integer), and I might give you a relatively good time scale (with a little bit of a standard deviation).

Well let's see, I have not tanned for a couple of days now and my acne is about the same. However if you quit tanning for a long period (really not just tanning, but staying out of the sun for a while), your acne will likely get worse because of insufficient vitamin D. The sun is a necessary part of your life and if your skin lacks exposure to the sun (which used to be my case when I had worse acne), your skin will be more susceptible to acne breakouts. However, I should also emphasize that too much sun can be a bad thing and also cause more acne breakouts. It is thus necessary to use SPF 15+ on sensitive areas of the body and to have shade around when needed. Try not to stay exposed constantly in the sun for more than forty-five minutes to an hour if you were like my 1.75. I could probably manage an hour and fifteen minutes without a tan, but I haven't tested that hypothesis.

I put Aloe Vera gel on any relatively moderate to severe sunburns I get. If you ever get a really severe sunburn with blisters, sulfur and creams may be necessary. Aloe Vera has always been good for me. It is antibacterial and deeply healing, so I fully recommend it. I think burn victims that are admitted to hospitals actually get Aloe Vera gel. Antioxidants such as Vitamin C also help. Antioxidants kill free-radicals which UV radiation will increase (free-radicals are a large part of sunburns; free-radicals are molecules that have been broken apart and can damage cells). Drink some orange juice, grape juice, cranberry juice, or the actual fruits and berries than contain antioxidants.

As far as putting Dan's benzoyl peroxide or AHA lotion on sunburned skin: I have not used either. Even though alpha hydroxy acid may increase sensitivity to the sun, I have not read anywhere that benzoyl peroxide or AHA cause adverse effects when applied to already sunburned skin. Nonetheless, I would probably try to stay away from applications of AHA and use benzoyl peroxide instead. AHA irritates the skin a bit more than benzoyl peroxide with most common symptoms seeming to be mild skin irritation, redness, and flaking.

I do game a little bit actually. However my computer can't run the latest games, but I don't plan on purchasing a new computer until closer to this fall when I enter college (Case Western Reserve University).

, John

PS: Vitamin E is another good antioxidant that helps shorten sunburn effects and heal the damage. Creams with vitamin E should help.

PPS: I have never put benzoyl peroxide on sunburned skin. It's been a long while since I sunburned (I tried to avoid the sun too much) and thus when I did, I let my skin heal first. Since a sunburn is damaged/inflammed skin, I think it wouldn't hurt to put benzoyl peroxide on it (if there is acne present). The reason: sunburned skin is more vulnerable to bacteria entering; aloe vera is an antibacterial agent and it helps to heal, too! Thus, I would say go for the Aloe Vera instead.

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John thanks alot for your help man. My problem right now is that my tan is going away before my sun burn lol. I need a bottle of aloe vera and i should be good to go.

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John thanks alot for your help man. My problem right now is that my tan is going away before my sun burn lol. I need a bottle of aloe vera and i should be good to go.

Like I said before, a sunburn kills skin, which means that you lose your tan. What you are trying to achieve is to get more melanin (pigment), not sunburn. So at the first sign of sunburn, you should know that on that part (and around that part), melanin exposure has been maximized and you are only going to go downhill from there. Sunburns tend to make you lose your tan sooner, despite them seeming to transform into a tan (doesn't last long).

I don't mind helping, either. Let this sunburn heal and don't start to tan for about one or two days after the sunburn is completely gone. Let your skin fully heal. Then start gradually as far as how long you stay out. Also, you might want to try tanning around 4:30PM instead of 3PM or so, when the sun is less intense. You will probably not notice anything, but you are prepping your skin for further exposure. Don't just jump in with both feet! That can be a traumatic experience for your skin.

, John

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Marsbound2024:

It REALLY worries me that you seem to think tanning (or any sun exposure) is beneficial to the skin, and even more so that people are assming your advice is intelligent based on your rather witty first post.

Please see the below links, which cover what ingredients to look for in a sunscreen to get broad spectrum protection, what level of SPF to look for, what hours are worst for sun exposure, what tanning really is, why tanning and sun exposure do not help acne, what sun exposure leads to, why tanning is not necessary to get Vitamin D, why sunlamps should not be used, and other useful information:

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/consumer/tanning.html

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/cos-815.html

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/cos-220.html

http://www.cosmeticscop.com/learn/article....REFER=SUN&ID=31

http://www.cosmeticscop.com/learn/article....FER=SKIN&ID=149

http://www.cosmeticscop.com/learn/dictiona...alloproteinases

http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/body/acne_myths.html

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Obviously there is a difference between tanning too much and not getting sun exposure. Sun exposure is good for you in moderate amounts. However, those that actively seek tanning beds and pursue darker skin--that's not healthy. I am here to say there is a way to do it without sunburning as bad. I never said tanning is healthy, but a bit of sun exposure can help produce vitamin D. Too much sun exposure is bad for you, but we want a tan. We aren't health freaks here. Thanks for your links, they do have good information.

Since the objective here is to acquire a tan, health risks are put aside. I am simply giving the best way to go about it (at least in my opinion).

As far as helping acne goes: well since I got sun exposure, that helped with vitamin D. Continued sun exposure doesn't take away that vitamin D synthesis, so I still have that benefit. Obviously I will have potentially detrimental effects in the future with aging. This vitamin D will help in the short term.

, John

PS: Some of those links are more than a decade old. Things change.

PPS: Some of those links affirm what I have said about safety and when best to tan. I believe it says 10AM-4PM, and I have recommend 3PM and even up to 4:30PM. Close enough, eh?

PPPS: When will these end. I see you have editted a little, thus so have I.

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Obviously there is a difference between tanning too much and not getting sun exposure. Sun exposure is good for you in moderate amounts. However, those that actively seek tanning beds and pursue darker skin--that's not healthy. I am here to say there is a way to do it without sunburning as bad. I never said tanning is healthy, but a bit of sun exposure can help produce vitamin D. Too much sun exposure is bad for you, but we want a tan. We aren't health freaks here. Thanks for your links, they do have good information.

, John

PS: Some of those links are more than a decade old. Things change.

The only reason I can think of that sun exposure in moderate amounts would have any beneficial effect would be to gain vitamin D, but it is harmful to intentionally seek sun exposure because the consequences far outweigh the benefits. Further, protected sun exposure does not necessarily prevent your body from getting enough vitamin D, which you will have read in this link, also posted above:

http://www.cosmeticscop.com/learn/article....FER=SKIN&ID=149

I copied and pasted this from the site:

"An article reprinted in PCI Journal (Volume 12, Number 4, November 2004) refers to comments by dermatologist Darrell S. Rigel, M.D., clinical professor, New York University Medical Center in New York City. He reports that as someone who sees and treats skin cancer patients on a daily basis, it is appalling to him that anyone in good conscience would claim that intentional sun exposure, regardless of length of time, is beneficial. It is a fact that skin cancer rates are rising and solid science supports the daily application of sunscreen as the best defense against the damaging effects of sunlight. The same article also mentioned a 1997 study published in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute. It concerned patients with xeroderma pigmentosa (a disease that causes multiple skin cancers in persons exposed to even small amounts of UV radiation). The study demonstrated that these patients, despite avid sun avoidance and constant UV protection, still had normal levels of vitamin D over a period of several years. There is also the issue that no sunscreen, regardless of active ingredients or how often or liberally it is applied, can provide 100% protection from UV radiation. The tiny amount of UVB light that sunscreens do not shield is enough to begin the synthesis of vitamin D (though depending on your skin color and climate, supplemental vitamin D will likely still be necessary)."

Anyway, even if sunscreens blocked all UVB light, vitamin D supplements can be taken.

By the way, the article described is not even two years old. In my opinion, the fact that research that discourages sun exposure from ten years ago is conclusive with new research strengthens the argument that sun exposure is bad. Ask any dermatologist. Also, I'd like to see you try and find a respectable source that says sun exposure does NOT cause skin cancer, premature aging, cataracts, a destruction of collagen, etc...

Sun damage is cumulative and occurs even when it is not immediately visible, causing future problems. Just because you don't burn or tan does not mean the damage does not take place.

You said yourself that tanning was not healthy. Why don't you do yourself a favor and stop? You could try getting an artificial tan; and if you are too lazy to do that, have problems with the application, or find that they don't look good on you, learn to put up with having fair skin. Something so superficial as tanning is not worth the risks.

Oh, one more thing: the fact that you are posting on an acne board says that you are somewhat wary of your health. You don't have to be a health "freak" to be against obtaining the negative effects of the sun.

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Obviously there is a difference between tanning too much and not getting sun exposure. Sun exposure is good for you in moderate amounts. However, those that actively seek tanning beds and pursue darker skin--that's not healthy. I am here to say there is a way to do it without sunburning as bad. I never said tanning is healthy, but a bit of sun exposure can help produce vitamin D. Too much sun exposure is bad for you, but we want a tan. We aren't health freaks here. Thanks for your links, they do have good information.

, John

PS: Some of those links are more than a decade old. Things change.

The only reason I can think of that sun exposure in moderate amounts would have any beneficial effect would be to gain vitamin D, but it is harmful to intentionally seek sun exposure because the consequences far outweigh the benefits. Further, protected sun exposure does not necessarily prevent your body from getting enough vitamin D, which you will have read in this link, also posted above:

http://www.cosmeticscop.com/learn/article....FER=SKIN&ID=149

I copied and pasted this from the site:

"An article reprinted in PCI Journal (Volume 12, Number 4, November 2004) refers to comments by dermatologist Darrell S. Rigel, M.D., clinical professor, New York University Medical Center in New York City. He reports that as someone who sees and treats skin cancer patients on a daily basis, it is appalling to him that anyone in good conscience would claim that intentional sun exposure, regardless of length of time, is beneficial. It is a fact that skin cancer rates are rising and solid science supports the daily application of sunscreen as the best defense against the damaging effects of sunlight. The same article also mentioned a 1997 study published in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute. It concerned patients with xeroderma pigmentosa (a disease that causes multiple skin cancers in persons exposed to even small amounts of UV radiation). The study demonstrated that these patients, despite avid sun avoidance and constant UV protection, still had normal levels of vitamin D over a period of several years. There is also the issue that no sunscreen, regardless of active ingredients or how often or liberally it is applied, can provide 100% protection from UV radiation. The tiny amount of UVB light that sunscreens do not shield is enough to begin the synthesis of vitamin D (though depending on your skin color and climate, supplemental vitamin D will likely still be necessary)."

Anyway, even if sunscreens blocked all UVB light, vitamin D supplements can be taken.

By the way, the article described is not even two years old. In my opinion, the fact that research that discourages sun exposure from ten years ago is conclusive with new research strengthens the argument that sun exposure is bad. Ask any dermatologist.

Sun damage is cumulative and occurs even when it is not immediately visible, causing future problems. Just because you don't burn or tan does not mean the damage does not take place.

You said yourself that tanning was not healthy. Why don't you do yourself a favor and stop? You could try getting an artificial tan; and if you are too lazy to do that, have problems with the application, or find that they don't look good on you, learn to put up with having fair skin. Something so superficial as tanning is not worth the risks.

Hello and thanks for your reply! Well some people smoke and are addicted. Others drink. We eat food that's unhealthy. See where I am going? We do what we want. We aren't always 100% healthy and I am sure you aren't either. We just want to get a nice looking skin tone like people with acne want to get rid of it. I don't trust artificial tanners and don't think I want to spend the money. Hopefully you don't continue to resort to attacking my opinions. I prefer a natural tan and I am aware of the risks. Sorry you disagree.

Respectfully, John

PS: One of the links was more than ten years old (oops... made a mistake and said it was ten years old). I was just saying that. The article you quoted is likely perfectly accurate. I was simply saying that you might want to keep up-to-date links in your argument for future notice so people don't use it as ammo. Hehe. ;)

PPS: You should probably calm down. Post your thoughts on an anti-tanning board or start your own group. I am aware of the health effects. Acne is much more visible than the problems tanning causes. As humans, we are usually worried about near-term problems than long-term, even though we should be concerned about them both. I am just confident that future technology will help with any problems that might be caused by my slight tanning.

Now, I am going to agree that very little sun exposure is necessary for vitamin D synthesis. I hope you are pleased with this. I am aware of the health effects, now please, don't go all alarmist/extremist on us. You're going to run a plane into a building that supports tanning! Haha.

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I apologize if it seems that I am attacking you. I just don't think tanning should be encouraged, and dermatologists would agree with me. I realize that I do not always live a healthy lifestyle, nor does everyone else. However, certain things, like tanning (and smoking, which I also don't do), have been especially linked to cancer and other severe side effects, and I do my best to avoid them and think others should, too. Also, this is completely my opinion, but I think that tanned, wrinkled skin looks far worse than fair, smooth skin. Actually, I think that fair skin is beautiful whenever and started another post about it on the Makeup Board. I appreciate your advice on how to post links, by the way, but as you may have noticed and as was mentioned in my last post, my posted links were a mix of recent and not as recent information, and I find that posting complementary information from over a period of time strengthens an overall argument. One more thing- acne is more visible than tanning in the short-term, yes; but in the longterm I think that death by melanoma would be far more visible.

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I apologize if it seems that I am attacking you. I just don't think tanning should be encouraged, and dermatologists would agree with me. I realize that I do not always live a healthy lifestyle, nor does everyone else. However, certain things, like tanning (and smoking, which I also don't do), have been especially linked to cancer and other severe side effects, and I do my best to avoid them and think others should, too. Also, this is completely my opinion, but I think that tanned, wrinkled skin looks far worse than fair, smooth skin. Actually, I think that fair skin is beautiful whenever and started another post about it on the Makeup Board. I appreciate your advice on how to post links, by the way, but as you may have noticed and as was mentioned in my last post, my posted links were a mix of recent and not as recent information, and I find that posting complementary information from over a period of time strengthens an overall argument. One more thing- acne is more visible than tanning in the short-term, yes; but in the longterm I think that death by melanoma would be far more visible.

That is quite alright. I understand completely where you are coming from. I used to say I would never tan because I didn't want the future side effects. However I decided to try to tan a bit, but on a scale far smaller than some of those religious tanners you see with extremely dark skin. Thanks for your somewhat bit humorous post (at the end). I enjoyed it. While we disagree on many things, I am glad that you weren't actually attacking me. Thanks for sharing your opinions. I am sure many here will decide not to tan, or to tan much less often if they do tan a lot. Have a great day!

Sincerely, me

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Ok my inferior toughts lol. Ok im 17, isn't this suppose 2 be basically one of the best parts of my life? I'm not going 2 hide in side all sumer cuz of acne on my back... i already had 2 make up an escuse when my g/f invited me to the beach...

What i'm saying is, i think its worth it. Think about it, i tan now, enjoy it now, and what.... pay for it when im 70??? Who the hell cares whatt you look like when your 70 any way? Maybe I drop a few years of my life lol. Look at it this way... live long with no purpose, or live a little shorter but have one hell of a time.

My g/f has no idea i have backne. WTF would she say if i took off my shirt and had like 8 pimples on my back? Any way, since i tanned im about 90% clear ( can only see 2 lol). All im saying is everything has a plus and a negative... but in this case you have to take EVERYTHING in to perspective.

Positives out weigh the fact that ur getting a tan and looking good. With me, a tan = more action from g/f haha. Lol j/p but do u get what im saying??

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Ok my inferior toughts lol. Ok im 17, isn't this suppose 2 be basically one of the best parts of my life? I'm not going 2 hide in side all sumer cuz of acne on my back... i already had 2 make up an escuse when my g/f invited me to the beach...

What i'm saying is, i think its worth it. Think about it, i tan now, enjoy it now, and what.... pay for it when im 70??? Who the hell cares whatt you look like when your 70 any way? Maybe I drop a few years of my life lol. Look at it this way... live long with no purpose, or live a little shorter but have one hell of a time.

My g/f has no idea i have backne. WTF would she say if i took off my shirt and had like 8 pimples on my back? Any way, since i tanned im about 90% clear ( can only see 2 lol). All im saying is everything has a plus and a negative... but in this case you have to take EVERYTHING in to perspective.

Positives out weigh the fact that ur getting a tan and looking good. With me, a tan = more action from g/f haha. Lol j/p but do u get what im saying??

Yes, skin problems can begin to appear in your forties and fifties depending on the severity. But if you are aiming for a light tan and you are kinder to your skin by allowing any sunburns to heal before you go outside and tan, I am thinking you will have a lower risk for skin problems. This, along with using SPF 15 (30 or up is better) will certainly help you prevent serious skin problems in the future. However, if your family's genetics have a history of skin cancer or the like, then you might want to consider shooting for an even lighter tan during the later parts of the day (5PM-6PM when the sun is closer to setting and the radiation from the sun has more atmosphere to travel through--thus abosrbing more of the UV rays). Luckily, we live in a time where technology has given us anti-aging treatments such as lasers and creams. Furthermore, there has been considerable progress against skin related diseases like skin cancer. I read recently that a breast cancer vaccine was in the works. This certainly is good news for us these days. It in no way suggests there will be a cure for cancer when we turn forty approximately twenty years from now, but it does give us hope for better treatments as technology progresses.

It is up to the individual to decide whether or not they want to take the risks. I think people want sex appeal in their youth and they don't care as much about when they are older (though they should). We just need to participate in relatively responsible tanning, in my opinion.

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To all you interested in a "safe tan"....there's no such thing...

Please do not advise people using acne medication to intentionally tan their skin. Tanning isn't considered "safe" just because you may not burn. UVA radiation, which casues the melanocytes to produce more melanin (a tan) penetrates further into the epidermis and dermis than UVB radiation (the kind that burns you). It's true that sunburned skin basically dies........the poor little irridated keratinocytes just commit suicide.....and eventually they flake off (peeling)......

Even a little tanning causes inflammation in the skin. Inflammation can cause the skin cells to become hyperkeratinized, and it causes a thickening of the epidermis. A ticker epidermis means a thicker lining of the philosebaceous units and hyperkeratinized cells means the lining is thicker and harder and in plain English......easier to plug up with cellular debris...........So why does acne seem to clear after sun exposure?? The p.acnes bacteria don't really like the UV radiation either.....so some of them die.....but not all of them and the once the bacterial populations can grow back.......a huge breakout follows......and since the pores are more easily blocked from the thickening of the epidermis in response to the UV radiation.....the breakout is usually more severe.........

So what if you managae to escape the burn and just develop a beautiful golden brown tan (I usually never burn....I have a level III complexion)......... UVA radiation causes the tanning of skin....it penetrates into the dermis and stimulates the melanocytes to produce more melanin....this is bad for people with darker complexions like Hispanics, Africans, dark Europeans, or Asians.....since UV radiation can cause and worsen hyperpigmentation.

This isn't all that UVA radiation does. It causes lipid peroxidation (damages your epidermal lipids) which can lead to the formation of reactive oxygen species (ROS's) or free radicals. These ROS's like the O2- radical werak havoc on the structure an function of the epidermis and dermis. They hijack the skin's extracellular matrix destruction process (which is actually useful for wound healing, scar healing and anytime large amounts of skin have to be destroyed, like after a woman has a baby).......and cause the production of MMP's (metalloprotineases), collagenase, and gelatinase.....which destroy the collagen and elastin fibers of the extracellular matrix of the dermis........

So what's so bad about destroying a little collagen? We're young we don't need it right? It grows back right??

We can think like that now because most of us don't have visable photodamage yet. I said it's not visable.....but it's there.....by the age of 20 we have accumulated 20 years of sundamage.....and many 20 year olds do have visable sun damage.....those little freckles that come out in the summer.....that blotchniess on your chest.....those tiny lines you think are just caused by dry skin.....are all signs of early photodamage.

The destruction of the collagen and elastin are the biggest visable signs of photodamage. When elastin is destroyed, the skin loses it's elasticity.....When collagen is destroyed it loses it's structure.....fine lines develop which turn into deep wrinkles....the skin starts to sag.......this can happen in your twenties or thirties.....you don't have to wait until you're 70 to show the signs of photoaging......

This damage is cumulative and permenent (unless you happen to use topical retinoids). Telling people who use the Regimen to tan is no help to them. It may temporarly clear acne and make redmarks less visable on fair skin, but the damage it causes to the skin isn't worth it (and neither is the post tan breakout once you stop tanning)......Plus the Regimen users are alrady applying BP to their skin, which can generate free radicals (not a reason to not use BP....since the skin can handle the amount of O2 that BP generates), but adding tanning on top of using BP is just adding insult to injury.......

Oh wow....... I haven't even talked about skin cancer yet. Bot UVA and UVB radiation can cause skin cancer, UVB s implemneted in causing the more superficial skin cancers (squamous and basal cell carcinomas) vand precancerous lesions (actinic keratoses), but UVA causes the Mac Daddy of skin cancers......melanoma. At the age of 20 I developed a melanoma on the bottom of my foot (odd place huh). My sister had one at the age of 11 on her neck. Mine was there for two an a half years before I had it removed....(who gets skin cancer on the bottoms of their feet????) Luckly it was acral lentigous melanoma and it grows slowly. It was only Stage I and I had a minor Mohs surgery to remove it. I've got a little scar now........

But what if that had happened to my face. That little scar would be on my face. It's a little scar on my foot, but on my face it would feel 1000 times bigger. I've heard of kids as young as 15 or 16 having actinic keratoses removed from their faces.....which does leave behind scarring.......

Why would you tell kids it's okay to tan because there are good treatments out there for skin cancer and good wrinkle creams avaliable..........That's like saying it's okay to smoke because I can get chemo if I get lung cancer.....it's like saying it's okay to shoot heroin, since I can always take methidone when I want to kick the haibit (okay that's extreme) but that kind of thinking can be dangerous.......

I'm not saying go live in a cave underground and avoid all sunlight......that is silly and not possible....but when you do go out in the sun for prolonged peroids of time....wear a good sunscreen (SPF30) and reapply every 2 hours, since chemical sunscreens break down when exposed to UV light.....try to aviod the sun between 10am-2pm (11am and 3pm if you are participating in daylight savings time).....

I actually went to the beach today. I went from 2pm-5pm, and wore SPF 30....I reapplied once and I still did get a tiny little tan (not sure it it was just that instant darkening that people who have Level III complexions and higher experience.....it may be gone in a few hours).....but I don't make a habit of baking myself in the sun....and even though without sunscreen it takes a while for me to burn I stil wear a UVA/UVB SPF 30.....I currently use Eurpoean sunscreens since they have decent UVA rating systems (Boot's has some nice ones that use Optisol....a super stable form of Titanium Dioxide that absorbs both UVA and UVB raditation without the risk of the titanuim generating free radicals when it's excited by UV radiation).......

If you want a tan without the damage there are self tanners out there that do look really natural.....especially ones that combine the DHA (dihydroxyacetone) with erythrulose.........

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To all you interested in a "safe tan"....there's no such thing...

Please do not advise people using acne medication to intentionally tan their skin. Tanning isn't considered "safe" just because you may not burn. UVA radiation, which casues the melanocytes to produce more melanin (a tan) penetrates further into the epidermis and dermis than UVB radiation (the kind that burns you). It's true that sunburned skin basically dies........the poor little irridated keratinocytes just commit suicide.....and eventually they flake off (peeling)......

Even a little tanning causes inflammation in the skin. Inflammation can cause the skin cells to become hyperkeratinized, and it causes a thickening of the epidermis. A ticker epidermis means a thicker lining of the philosebaceous units and hyperkeratinized cells means the lining is thicker and harder and in plain English......easier to plug up with cellular debris...........So why does acne seem to clear after sun exposure?? The p.acnes bacteria don't really like the UV radiation either.....so some of them die.....but not all of them and the once the bacterial populations can grow back.......a huge breakout follows......and since the pores are more easily blocked from the thickening of the epidermis in response to the UV radiation.....the breakout is usually more severe.........

So what if you managae to escape the burn and just develop a beautiful golden brown tan (I usually never burn....I have a level III complexion)......... UVA radiation causes the tanning of skin....it penetrates into the dermis and stimulates the melanocytes to produce more melanin....this is bad for people with darker complexions like Hispanics, Africans, dark Europeans, or Asians.....since UV radiation can cause and worsen hyperpigmentation.

This isn't all that UVA radiation does. It causes lipid peroxidation (damages your epidermal lipids) which can lead to the formation of reactive oxygen species (ROS's) or free radicals. These ROS's like the O2- radical werak havoc on the structure an function of the epidermis and dermis. They hijack the skin's extracellular matrix destruction process (which is actually useful for wound healing, scar healing and anytime large amounts of skin have to be destroyed, like after a woman has a baby).......and cause the production of MMP's (metalloprotineases), collagenase, and gelatinase.....which destroy the collagen and elastin fibers of the extracellular matrix of the dermis........

So what's so bad about destroying a little collagen? We're young we don't need it right? It grows back right??

We can think like that now because most of us don't have visable photodamage yet. I said it's not visable.....but it's there.....by the age of 20 we have accumulated 20 years of sundamage.....and many 20 year olds do have visable sun damage.....those little freckles that come out in the summer.....that blotchniess on your chest.....those tiny lines you think are just caused by dry skin.....are all signs of early photodamage.

The destruction of the collagen and elastin are the biggest visable signs of photodamage. When elastin is destroyed, the skin loses it's elasticity.....When collagen is destroyed it loses it's structure.....fine lines develop which turn into deep wrinkles....the skin starts to sag.......this can happen in your twenties or thirties.....you don't have to wait until you're 70 to show the signs of photoaging......

This damage is cumulative and permenent (unless you happen to use topical retinoids). Telling people who use the Regimen to tan is no help to them. It may temporarly clear acne and make redmarks less visable on fair skin, but the damage it causes to the skin isn't worth it (and neither is the post tan breakout once you stop tanning)......Plus the Regimen users are alrady applying BP to their skin, which can generate free radicals (not a reason to not use BP....since the skin can handle the amount of O2 that BP generates), but adding tanning on top of using BP is just adding insult to injury.......

Oh wow....... I haven't even talked about skin cancer yet. Bot UVA and UVB radiation can cause skin cancer, UVB s implemneted in causing the more superficial skin cancers (squamous and basal cell carcinomas) vand precancerous lesions (actinic keratoses), but UVA causes the Mac Daddy of skin cancers......melanoma. At the age of 20 I developed a melanoma on the bottom of my foot (odd place huh). My sister had one at the age of 11 on her neck. Mine was there for two an a half years before I had it removed....(who gets skin cancer on the bottoms of their feet????) Luckly it was acral lentigous melanoma and it grows slowly. It was only Stage I and I had a minor Mohs surgery to remove it. I've got a little scar now........

But what if that had happened to my face. That little scar would be on my face. It's a little scar on my foot, but on my face it would feel 1000 times bigger. I've heard of kids as young as 15 or 16 having actinic keratoses removed from their faces.....which does leave behind scarring.......

Why would you tell kids it's okay to tan because there are good treatments out there for skin cancer and good wrinkle creams avaliable..........That's like saying it's okay to smoke because I can get chemo if I get lung cancer.....it's like saying it's okay to shoot heroin, since I can always take methidone when I want to kick the haibit (okay that's extreme) but that kind of thinking can be dangerous.......

I'm not saying go live in a cave underground and avoid all sunlight......that is silly and not possible....but when you do go out in the sun for prolonged peroids of time....wear a good sunscreen (SPF30) and reapply every 2 hours, since chemical sunscreens break down when exposed to UV light.....try to aviod the sun between 10am-2pm (11am and 3pm if you are participating in daylight savings time).....

I actually went to the beach today. I went from 2pm-5pm, and wore SPF 30....I reapplied once and I still did get a tiny little tan (not sure it it was just that instant darkening that people who have Level III complexions and higher experience.....it may be gone in a few hours).....but I don't make a habit of baking myself in the sun....and even though without sunscreen it takes a while for me to burn I stil wear a UVA/UVB SPF 30.....I currently use Eurpoean sunscreens since they have decent UVA rating systems (Boot's has some nice ones that use Optisol....a super stable form of Titanium Dioxide that absorbs both UVA and UVB raditation without the risk of the titanuim generating free radicals when it's excited by UV radiation).......

If you want a tan without the damage there are self tanners out there that do look really natural.....especially ones that combine the DHA (dihydroxyacetone) with erythrulose.........

Look, all that is irrelevant (despite it being very good information). He did not want to know "Should I tan" he wanted to know "How I should tan." There is varying degrees of tanning, but you are right, there is no such thing as a safe tan. There are ways to tan without damaging your skin as badly of course. That was what I was advising. Every opinion against tanning is irrelevant because no one asked how bad it was, just how to do it without burning. You are blowing the question out of proportion. I am simply answering his question. Now you make a good point about the smoking and such and maybe that will make people stop tanning. Hooray if so. But you really should know that I was answering his questions, not shooting him down for wanting to improve his appearance (even if we disagree with the way it is done).

EDIT: Well after thinking a bit--it is a bit relevant really, though the previous mentioned is still mostly my opinion about me merely answering his question and providing him with the information to try to minimize sun damage; it wasn't in my interest to go out in a debate why he should or should not tan; furthermore, I am tanning, too, so I might as well share with him what I am doing--I have to admit that I am probably going to stop tanning for a while (what I mean by that is laying out), but I will still go outside and play badminton, football, water-hose with my baby nephew, without a shirt and with shorts. I am going to be active outside and while I am, I might as well get the fewest tanlines as possible. A little tanning won't kill me. At least not immediately.

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Look, all that is irrelevant (despite it being very good information). He did not want to know "Should I tan" he wanted to know "How I should tan." There is varying degrees of tanning, but you are right, there is no such thing as a safe tan. There are ways to tan without damaging your skin as badly of course. That was what I was advising. Every opinion against tanning is irrelevant because no one asked how bad it was, just how to do it without burning. You are blowing the question out of proportion. I am simply answering his question. Now you make a good point about the smoking and such and maybe that will make people stop tanning. Hooray if so. But you really should know that I was answering his questions, not shooting him down for wanting to improve his appearance (even if we disagree with the way it is done).

EDIT: Well after thinking a bit--it is a bit relevant really, though the previous mentioned is still mostly my opinion about me merely answering his question and providing him with the information to try to minimize sun damage; it wasn't in my interest to go out in a debate why he should or should not tan; furthermore, I am tanning, too, so I might as well share with him what I am doing--I have to admit that I am probably going to stop tanning for a while (what I mean by that is laying out), but I will still go outside and play badminton, football, water-hose with my baby nephew, without a shirt and with shorts. I am going to be active outside and while I am, I might as well get the fewest tanlines as possible. A little tanning won't kill me. At least not immediately.

I was actually PM'ed by someone asking me to comment on this tread. Tan if you want, but know what it does. There is no "safe tan." Tanning without burning is by no means safe. Actually the burning is helpful.....it lets you know to get out of the sun.........a little gradual tan is by no means less damaging than a tan with a subsequent burn....actually it's the repeated ezposure that's the problem. The damage is cumulative, so for all the 45 minutes you lay out, you keep the damage of all the other tans you've gotten...... There is no minimizing sun damage and protecting from a burn is not protecting from the damage the damage occcurs regardless of the burn..........So don't tell people a tan is "safe" just because you don't burn.....I can't remember ever having sunburn. I have olive skin and I don't burn easily even though in the winter om a little on the fair side (as a kid my mother slathered on the sunblock on herself and us kids.....even as a dark Brazilian woman). I instanly photodarken, which means I tan in about 5 minutes of exposure. This is not a true tan but a UVA induced transfer of melanosomes from melanocytes to keratinocytes that only happens in people with darker complexions........I'm supposed to be at very low risk for skin cancer, because of my ethnicity and complexion.......All those times I went tanning as a teenager I though I was safe because I didn't burn..........I'm not wrinkled, and I look about 10 years younger than I really am.......but I had a melanoma.........

Go outside and play spots and play with your nephew.....run around topless (I sure can't)......just please wear a good UVA/UVB sunscreen........you may not have the damage now.......but who knows what will happen in the next 10 years.......

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You still insist I say tanning is safe. Perhaps my wording is different. Smart tanning, how about that. But now you are going to say "no tanning is smart." You are probably right, but like I said before, that's not the objective. People will do what they want. You can advise them like a good person, but don't annoy them. We have the facts right in front of our face; so those who choose to continue tanning, let them. They'll find out the hard way. But I would also like to say, I know a lot of people who have tanned when they were younger and have no serious skin problems besides wrinkles and such. For other people, they aren't so lucky. Now I am simply advising on a method that would seem to be less severe on the skin in the local time frame. I am not sure about long-term facts--if they are less or equivalent. But for now, I am advising on how to reduce skin irritation and to protect themselves.

Continued ranting about how tanning is so bad for you is starting to annoy even me. Thank you for your concern and the facts you have presented us with (as they have been presented for a while now really). Now, you could perhaps be helpful and tell us what you would do if you wanted to tan in a somewhat better fashion that some people. Or you could continue to say that we should avoid tanning and look what problems we will have.

I am open to listen; if you would like to share these concerns, I would like to hear it because I am concerned about my health. Like I said, you have motivated me to reduce tanning and probably not even lay out anymore (just activities in the Sun).

Here's a comment: how did our ancestors EVER survive without sunscreen? I wonder that. Apparently so many things we have to do to protect ourselves today. Humans have survived for millenia working laborously in the sun. Life expectancies were shorter, but that certainly wasn't caused by skin problems. The truth is that some people are affected by UV more than others. Those people really do need to take extra precautions. But, with medical advances today and many years into the future, I seriously think that people who want to tan a little, should do it. Do what makes you happy, just don't abuse it. Some people are stupid and spend their days at the beach and get ridiculously dark. They need to worry more about the effects of tanning.

Ever see the old native ladies whose skin is extremely wrinkled? They sure as hell spent a lot of time in the sun without protection and they are eighty or ninety years old. They are smoking. But for aesthetic reasons, I surely wouldn't want to look like that. But luckily, you don't see many in the United States who look like that. Some people wrinkle though.

All I am saying is that in today's society, we all seem to worry a bit too much and do not enjoy life. If tanning is going to give you ten or twenty years of a great life followed by another ten years of a good life with only a few skin problems and then followed by the rest of your years with skin problems, yet not giving a damn because you can't have sex anymore (nor would you want to) and suffer from dimensia or a cancer (other than skin), then DO IT! We live for our youth. I live life, I don't cower from it. Tanning makes people feel better about themselves. What better a time to feel good about yourself than when you are a thriving youth?

So my message to all those who want to tan: Do it, just don't go too many shades higher than what you are already. Wear sunscreen! If you are going to lay out, do it in the late day. Wear sunglasses or something else to protect your eyes (simply closing them isn't as effective). If you are worried about tanlines around your eyes, just take like cucumbers or something and put them over your eyelids. I am not sure what people do to protect their eyes. Maybe LabGirl81 will be helpful and tell us.

Enjoy life yet make sure you limit yourself to health risks! You can't avoid everything and don't need to. If tanning is going to make you feel better about your body and get out more and be more social and ultimately let you introduce yourself to someone you otherwise would be scared of meeting, then do it. You should be confident in what you already have, but we all know it doesn't work like that. Get you a decent tan instead of being fair if that's what you want. I mean you should only go for a few shades darker. If on my 1-10 scale, I wouldn't go darker than say 3 or 4 shades. And that might be too much as it is. I was wanting to get around a 6 or something, but I might just tone that down thanks to LabGirl81. I really don't need as much anyways. I am not being sarcastic either. LabGirl81 really did make me find a balance.

So... FIND A BALANCE!!

We all get too worried about our life when we age and can't do anything because we already suffer from a crapload of problems. Oooh my back, I should've had better lifting habits... or perhaps I should've drank more milk... or people it is genetics. Oooh arthritis... I shouldn't have used my hands so much... but I wanted to garden and talk to people on the computer (that would be carpal tunnel probably)... and it may be genetics... oooh I can't remember much... I should've eaten more seafood... or it is genetics....

We can't fix genetics yet. We are working on it.

So LabGirl81 might enjoy staying indoors and be fine with her skin... She should be, she is already dark. Maybe a fair-complected individual is fine with their skin. That is great, let's support them in that. That definitely saves them from skin problems... unless it is in their genetics.

However for some of us... we want to tan to get rid of fair complexion. We are human. We have different opinions and views. We will share our opinions with each other. We aren't all the same. Find a balance between enjoying life and being healthy and trying to ward of disease. Try to be smarter when you do things. Of course, the only way to be smarter is to actually have someone to HELP you be smarter. I am attempting to help, but my knowledge is limited. Thus, I do need someone to complement it. Thus far, we aren't making much progress.

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Well there's a dark and a troubled side of life.

There's a bright and a sunny side too.

But if you meet with the darkness and strife,

The sunny side we also may view.

Keep on the sunny side, always on the sunny side,

Keep on the sunny side of life.

It will help us every day, it will brighten all the way,

If we keep on the sunny side of life.

Oh, the storm and its fury broke today,

Crushing hopes that we cherish so dear.

Clouds and storms will in time pass away.

The sun again will shine bright and clear.

Keep on the sunny side, always on the sunny side,

Keep on the sunny side of life.

It will help us every day, it will brighten all the way,

If we'll keep on the sunny side of life.

Let us greet with a song of hope each day.

Though the moments be cloudy or fair.

Let us trust in our Saviour always,

To keep us, every one, in His care.

Keep on the sunny side, always on the sunny side,

Keep on the sunny side of life.

It will help us every day, it will brighten all the way,

If we'll keep on the sunny side of life.

If we'll keep on the sunny side of life.

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"All I am saying is that in today's society, we all seem to worry a bit too much and do not enjoy life. If tanning is going to give you ten or twenty years of a great life followed by another ten years of a good life with only a few skin problems and then followed by the rest of your years with skin problems, yet not giving a damn because you can't have sex anymore (nor would you want to) and suffer from dimensia or a cancer (other than skin), then DO IT! We live for our youth. I live life, I don't cower from it. Tanning makes people feel better about themselves. What better a time to feel good about yourself than when you are a thriving youth?"

Excellent!!! Exactly how i feel... :clap:

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