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I have been steering clear of milk for a while because of all the negative relationships I have heard about between dairy products and acne...although I really do like milk. So what exactly is soy milk, and is it still considered something that could possibly cause some acne? Thanks.

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Soy contains estrogenlike components called phytoestrogens. Supposedly, this could create developmental problems in the first stages of life. I'm not aware that this affects fully grown adults (or even young children for that matter). Try it and see.

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Soy contains estrogenlike components called phytoestrogens. Supposedly, this could create developmental problems in the first stages of life. I'm not aware that this affects fully grown adults (or even young children for that matter). Try it and see.

I don't believe that they would make soy based infant formula if it caused developmental problems in children.

That and all of Asia would have developmental problems if that were true as soy, soy milk, tofu, etc. is a main staple in their diets all through life.

Soy milk is vegetable based, not animal. If you are a vegan, vegetarian or lactose intolerant, it's an excellent alternative.

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Soy contains estrogenlike components called phytoestrogens. Supposedly, this could create developmental problems in the first stages of life. I'm not aware that this affects fully grown adults (or even young children for that matter). Try it and see.

I don't believe that they would make soy based infant formula if it caused developmental problems in children.

That and all of Asia would have developmental problems if that were true as soy, soy milk, tofu, etc. is a main staple in their diets all through life.

Soy milk is vegetable based, not animal. If you are a vegan, vegetarian or lactose intolerant, it's an excellent alternative.

Myths & Truths About Soy

Myth: Use of soy as a food dates back many thousands of years.

Truth: Soy was first used as a food during the late Chou dynasty (1134-246 BC), only after the Chinese learned to ferment soy beans to make foods like tempeh, natto and tamari.

Myth: Asians consume large amounts of soy foods.

Truth: Average consumption of soy foods in Japan and China is 10 grams (about 2 teaspoons) per day. Asians consume soy foods in small amounts as a condiment, and not as a replacement for animal foods.

Myth: Modern soy foods confer the same health benefits as traditionally fermented soy foods.

Truth: Most modern soy foods are not fermented to neutralize toxins in soybeans, and are processed in a way that denatures proteins and increases levels of carcinogens.

Myth: Soy foods provide complete protein.

Truth: Like all legumes, soy beans are deficient in sulfur-containing amino acids methionine and cystine. In addition, modern processing denatures fragile lysine.

Myth: Fermented soy foods can provide vitamin B12 in vegetarian diets.

Truth: The compound that resembles vitamin B12 in soy cannot be used by the human body; in fact, soy foods cause the body to require more B12

Myth: Soy formula is safe for infants.

Truth: Soy foods contain trypsin inhibitors that inhibit protein digestion and affect pancreatic function. In test animals, diets high in trypsin inhibitors led to stunted growth and pancreatic disorders. Soy foods increase the body's requirement for vitamin D, needed for strong bones and normal growth. Phytic acid in soy foods results in reduced bioavailabilty of iron and zinc which are required for the health and development of the brain and nervous system. Soy also lacks cholesterol, likewise essential for the development of the brain and nervous system. Megadoses of phytoestrogens in soy formula have been implicated in the current trend toward increasingly premature sexual development in girls and delayed or retarded sexual development in boys.

Myth: Soy foods can prevent osteoporosis.

Truth: Soy foods can cause deficiencies in calcium and vitamin D, both needed for healthy bones. Calcium from bone broths and vitamin D from seafood, lard and organ meats prevent osteoporosis in Asian countries—not soy foods.

Myth: Modern soy foods protect against many types of cancer.

Truth: A British government report concluded that there is little evidence that soy foods protect against breast cancer or any other forms of cancer. In fact, soy foods may result in an increased risk of cancer.

Myth: Soy foods protect against heart disease.

Truth: In some people, consumption of soy foods will lower cholesterol, but there is no evidence that lowering cholesterol improves one's risk of having heart disease.

Myth: Soy estrogens (isoflavones) are good for you.

Truth: Soy isoflavones are phyto-endocrine disrupters. At dietary levels, they can prevent ovulation and stimulate the growth of cancer cells. Eating as little as 30 grams (about 4 tablespoons) of soy per day can result in hypothyroidism with symptoms of lethargy, constipation, weight gain and fatigue.

Myth: Soy foods are safe and beneficial for women to use in their postmenopausal years.

Truth: Soy foods can stimulate the growth of estrogen-dependent tumors and cause thyroid problems. Low thyroid function is associated with difficulties in menopause.

Myth: Phytoestrogens in soy foods can enhance mental ability.

Truth: A recent study found that women with the highest levels of estrogen in their blood had the lowest levels of cognitive function; In Japanese Americans tofu consumption in mid-life is associated with the occurrence of Alzheimer's disease in later life.

Myth: Soy isoflavones and soy protein isolate have GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe) status.

Truth: Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) recently withdrew its application to the FDA for GRAS status for soy isoflavones following an outpouring of protest from the scientific community. The FDA never approved GRAS status for soy protein isolate because of concern regarding the presence of toxins and carcinogens in processed soy.

Myth: Soy foods are good for your sex life.

Truth: Numerous animal studies show that soy foods cause infertility in animals. Soy consumption enhances hair growth in middle-aged men, indicating lowered testosterone levels. Japanese housewives feed tofu to their husbands frequently when they want to reduce his virility.

Myth: Soy beans are good for the environment.

Truth: Most soy beans grown in the US are genetically engineered to allow farmers to use large amounts of herbicides.

Myth: Soy beans are good for developing nations.

Truth: In third world countries, soybeans replace traditional crops and transfer the value-added of processing from the local population to multinational corporations.

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nice post bouncey baa baa (is it ok if I call you that?! :D ). Also the environmental cost of soya production includes destruction of the rainforest in S.America to grow illegal crops of soya - ironically, these crops are the ones grown by small scale farmers who have cottoned onto the Wests insatible demand for 'healthy' soya products, and consequently they are generally the crops that are non-GM and organic - those very products that environmentally concious people tend to go for. Oh the irony...Soya sucks, period.

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Soy doesn't suck, period. The way Westerners have processed it sucks. The traditional fermentation process developed by Asians cancels out most of the bad effects of soy - so you can safely consume tempeh, soy sauce, natto (whatever that is?), miso and fermented tofu. I still like regular tofu occassionally, too, though I know it's not going to be good for me. All this 'soy protein isolate' and random processed soy ingredients added to everything we buy in a grocery store, today, is NOT healthy however. And soy milk is not healthy. If you want a real dairy alternative, go for rice milk. Even better, make it home made with a blender, or do oat milk (mmmm...).

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Myths & Truths About Soy

Myth: Use of soy as a food dates back many thousands of years.

Truth: Soy was first used as a food during the late Chou dynasty (1134-246 BC), only after the Chinese learned to ferment soy beans to make foods like tempeh, natto and tamari.

Myth: Asians consume large amounts of soy foods.

Truth: Average consumption of soy foods in Japan and China is 10 grams (about 2 teaspoons) per day. Asians consume soy foods in small amounts as a condiment, and not as a replacement for animal foods.

1134-236BC isn't a long time use? That's about 2200-3000 years ago...wouldn't that be "dating back thousands of years?"

Funny, we have a huge Asian population where I live and I see a much larger consumption of soy food products than you mentioned. Rice is also a staple -- are you going to call me a liar on that too?

I don't consume a lot of soy products but I think you can find issue with just about any food product to one extent or another. I think it's smart to do anything in moderation, not to excess, including soy consumption.

If I offended your anti-Soy sentiments, I aplogize profusely.

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This might be controversial to say, but just because soy products agree with the average east asian, doesn't mean that they would agree with the average person of European descent. I just moved from the bay area, California and most of my friends there were Asian. The bulk of their diet consisted of white rice and this kept them healthy and beautiful. But I know for a fact that if I were to eat that much rice I would get acne again, water retention and bad gas and bloating. My whole family would as we just aren't adapted to such a diet. Soy and all beans give me major gas and my health/skin has improved since I've eliminated them.

Actually, I have a theory that when Asians get acne it is from excess animal proteins and fats, but for Europeans the acne is more from excess carbs/sugars.

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Soy doesn't suck, period. The way Westerners have processed it sucks.

Thats what I meant - modern processed soya as oppose to the traditional methods of fermenting. Sorry if I did'nt make myself clear RS - was in a rush this morning. The modern methods involve washing the powdered soya beans in big aluminium vats with alkali, then acid, then alkali again to to remove fiber and remake the slurry into a solid. This is then spray dried at high temperatures before being further processed to produce the soya protein isolate which is then used in products like soya milk and Textured Vegetable Protein. Not the most appealing process in the world huh?

I am sure that fermented soya is not a problem at all - clever folk those ancient Chinese....

It is the enzyme inhibitors and the phyto-oestrogens that are a problem with Western soya products (shall qualify myself from now on). I have first hand experience of the dangers of the phyto-oestrogens - I was drinking quite alot of soya milk last summer cos I was trying to go dairy free, and it mucked up my menstrual cycle so badly I did'nt know if I was coming or going - I was getting a period every 2 weeks at one point. It took me a while to put 2 and 2 together, but as soon as I did I came staright off the stuff and my cycle sorted itself out.

There is nothing safe about soya made in this way - the reason the Chinese fermented soya in the first place is because it is toxic if eaten in its natural state. Thats why it needs so much industrial processing with the aluminium vats (alzheimers too folks!) and acids and alkalis and the like. Any foodstuff that needs that much processing surely is'nt meant to be eaten....

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Well, it's a good thing I'm not a huge soybean product nut.

I do have the occasional tofu at Japanese restaurants, though, but it's not like I'm gulping down at every meal.

So I guess the most obvious question I would have (and be most concerned with) even though I'm way past the having-babies stage, is what about the soy milk that goes into infant formula?

Every major and minor infant formula manufacturer has a Soy formula option for babies that cannot consume the regular milk based formulas. And before anyone says Rice Milk, remember that your average parent does not have access to or can afford specialty items such as that. (Unless the Baby Formula industry now has a rice milk line as an option that they didn't when my kids were babies.) Is the soy milk in formula processed correctly?

The other question is: What about whole soy beans. I've never eaten them, to my knowledge, but daughter likes them. Are you saying that Soy beans are the one and only legume that is toxic if eaten raw?

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So I guess the most obvious question I would have (and be most concerned with) even though I'm way past the having-babies stage, is what about the soy milk that goes into infant formula?

I've read anecdotes by parents of girls who've gone through very early puberties due to soy milk formula. The girls will start to get breasts or pubic hair WAY before they are supposed to. The boys seem to lack the normal masculine drive and characteristics.

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So I guess the most obvious question I would have (and be most concerned with) even though I'm way past the having-babies stage, is what about the soy milk that goes into infant formula?

I've read anecdotes by parents of girls who've gone through very early puberties due to soy milk formula. The girls will start to get breasts or pubic hair WAY before they are supposed to. The boys seem to lack the normal masculine drive and characteristics.

I wonder about the demographics, though. Is there a correllation or is it just coincidental?

My little girl was colicky and once I stopped nursing and switched to regular formula (she was 3months old), it got really bad. The pediatrician switched her to soy formula and that is what she drank until at least 7 or 8 months old if not 1 yr. (It's been awhile so I don't remember exactly)

The thing is, she is a normal 12 year old, who didn't start puberty early and who has yet to start her period. On the occasion that she has the opportunity to eat it, she likes tofu and soy beans and I've never seen any negative side effects at all.

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There are a lot of people who are anti-soy, and others who are for soy. The truth is, that most of the anti-soy "facts" are not really founded. Like saying that when women drink soy milk their babies have their periods a lot sooner. Who said?! Does this happen to everyone, or just some? Has this been studied thoroughly or do moms just blame soy...My grandmother had her period when she was 8, yet her mother didn't consume soy. It happens.

Also someone said that excess soy contributes to possible cancer risks and weight gain. First off, where are the studies that show soy can cause cancer risks...Also, I know many many vegans and vegetarians, and all the vegans (who consume the most soy), are all thin. That doesn't make sense to me.

I am not saying soy is great or a wonder food, but I am saying that the negative information about soy are often unfounded.

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Just resist any urge to eat raw soy. Uncooked soybeans contain a substance that inhibits trypsin, a key enzyme required for protein digestion. "Horses who eat raw soybeans die," said Zeisel. While raw soybeans may not be as deadly for humans as they are for horses, Zeisel said it's not worth the risk: "Don't ever eat soybeans raw."

from Washingtonpost.com

Kinda sums it up without going into too much detail. All beans need to be cooked before they are eaten as they all contain anti-nutrients to one degree or another. Not sure how they process infant formula, but I can't imagine it being drastically different - if they deem such a process to be safe for adults then they are also going to deem it safe for babies I would have thought. However they process it, the end product is still going to be full of plant oestrogens, which could be really harmful to a developing babies hormonal system if taken for too long, especially a baby boy - all sorts of potential developmental problems....

Susan, if your little girl is fine then you obviously have nothing to worry about - does she still drink soya milk or is it just the tofu, and what kinda soya beans does she eat? I've never seen them sold in their whole form - did'nt know you could get em like that....

I'm tired, I need to go to bed I think - took my 6 yr old swimming today and now I feel pooped!

Also someone said that excess soy contributes to possible cancer risks and weight gain. First off, where are the studies that show soy can cause cancer risks...Also, I know many many vegans and vegetarians, and all the vegans (who consume the most soy), are all thin. That doesn't make sense to me.

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There are a lot of people who are anti-soy, and others who are for soy. The truth is, that most of the anti-soy "facts" are not really founded. Like saying that when women drink soy milk their babies have their periods a lot sooner. Who said?! Does this happen to everyone, or just some? Has this been studied thoroughly or do moms just blame soy...My grandmother had her period when she was 8, yet her mother didn't consume soy. It happens.

Also someone said that excess soy contributes to possible cancer risks and weight gain. First off, where are the studies that show soy can cause cancer risks...Also, I know many many vegans and vegetarians, and all the vegans (who consume the most soy), are all thin. That doesn't make sense to me.

I am not saying soy is great or a wonder food, but I am saying that the negative information about soy are often unfounded.

The facts are very founded, actually.

Soy protein is estrogenic, that's a fact. Legumes and beans like soybeans contain antinutrients unless properly cooked and fermented, that's a fact. The way Westerners process soy, like the way bexi described, is a fact. The effect fermentation has on soy is a fact as well.

I'm not against soy as a whole. Sure, I'm against fake vegan cheese and soy turkey and all the other modern bullshit we've done with it, but I love my tempeh, soy sauce and occassional tofu. It's good stuff.

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There are a lot of people who are anti-soy, and others who are for soy. The truth is, that most of the anti-soy "facts" are not really founded. Like saying that when women drink soy milk their babies have their periods a lot sooner. Who said?! Does this happen to everyone, or just some? Has this been studied thoroughly or do moms just blame soy...My grandmother had her period when she was 8, yet her mother didn't consume soy. It happens.

Also someone said that excess soy contributes to possible cancer risks and weight gain. First off, where are the studies that show soy can cause cancer risks...Also, I know many many vegans and vegetarians, and all the vegans (who consume the most soy), are all thin. That doesn't make sense to me.

I am not saying soy is great or a wonder food, but I am saying that the negative information about soy are often unfounded.

The facts are very founded, actually.

Soy protein is estrogenic, that's a fact. Legumes and beans like soybeans contain antinutrients unless properly cooked and fermented, that's a fact. The way Westerners process soy, like the way bexi described, is a fact. The effect fermentation has on soy is a fact as well.

I'm not against soy as a whole. Sure, I'm against fake vegan cheese and soy turkey and all the other modern bullshit we've done with it, but I love my tempeh, soy sauce and occassional tofu. It's good stuff.

The facts that I stated in my post are basically unfounded. The ones you mentioned were not in my post.

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Susan, if your little girl is fine then you obviously have nothing to worry about - does she still drink soya milk or is it just the tofu, and what kinda soya beans does she eat? I've never seen them sold in their whole form - did'nt know you could get em like that....

She developed normally as a baby and child. She's developing normal as a pre-menstrual pre-teen.

I asked her about the soy beans and she said they were frozen, so I'm guessing they were pre-cooked, especially if that's how they are sold. Whenever I've seen them served at restaurants, they appear to be steamed or boiled or something. (I've never eaten them). She likes Miso with Tofu, like I do. And she's had sauteed tofu at a friend's house. She really likes it, too.

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Soy protein is estrogenic, that's a fact. Legumes and beans like soybeans contain antinutrients unless properly cooked and fermented, that's a fact. The way Westerners process soy, like the way bexi described, is a fact. The effect fermentation has on soy is a fact as well.

Good old regular green beans that you buy in the produce section, the ones you snap the ends off of and steam/boil, are legumes and they do not need to be "fermented."

Most dried beans simply need to be soaked for several hours before you cook them in order to soften them up, not "fermented."

I believe you when you say soy beans must be processed this way, but I don't believe all beans/legumes do. You can site studies all you want about soy beans, but I'd like to see good solid evidence for this neccessary fermentation process for, example, pinto beans or black beans or kidney beans or lentils, etc.

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Oh no, I agree with you. Pinto beans, lentils etc. need not be fermented but soaking them is VERY beneficial. Soaking lentils, for example, for a day or more not only helps make it cook faster and be easier to digest, but it can also cut down on the gas that lentils always end up giving me.

But the thing about fermenting soy beans is that it not only neutralizes anti nutrients, but it also helps them more nutritious as a whole.

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I drink soya milk. Not because I'm vegan - but because I prefer it. I really like the taste. The soya milk I drink is called 'Alpro' and actually has 3x the calcium then normal semi-skimmed milk. It is also fortified with other vitamens and minerals. 'Soya' in itself has many beneficial effects on the body and helps promote a healthy system when consumed in moderation.

I read in the sunday paper that cultures whose diets are high in soya have been found to have a considerably lower cancer rate.

But obviously.... I would never give soya to a baby. But who is actually that stupid?

Lucy xx

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From Wikipedia:

Toxicity

Before they are eaten, the raw bean seeds should be boiled for at least ten minutes to degrade a toxic compound - the lectin phytohaemagglutinin - found in the bean which would otherwise cause severe gastric upset. This compound is present in many varieties (and in some other species of bean), but is especially concentrated in red kidney beans. Although in the case of dry beans the ten minutes required to degrade the toxin is much shorter than the hours required to fully cook the beans themselves, outbreaks of poisoning have been associated with the use of slow cookers whose low cooking temperatures may be unable to degrade the toxin....

All 'pulses' have antinutrients to one degree or another, esp kindey beans and soy beans. Green beans are a completely different thing - they do not need to be processed, soaked or cooked to destroy antinutrients as they do not really contain them, and they are easy enough to digest raw.

Maybe your daughter is naturally low in oestrogen Susan, hence her preference for Soya products - could be her body responding to her natural dietry requirements. I am a big believer in our bodies telling us what we need to stay healthy, and I especially think children are particularly good at listening to their bodies, which I feel is something that we 'forget' how to do the older we get...

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Maybe your daughter is naturally low in oestrogen Susan, hence her preference for Soya products - could be her body responding to her natural dietry requirements. I am a big believer in our bodies telling us what we need to stay healthy, and I especially think children are particularly good at listening to their bodies, which I feel is something that we 'forget' how to do the older we get...

Yeah. You know, for years that was thought to be an "old wives tale" but I think more doctors now recognize that sometimes your body craves something that it needs. When I was little (younger than 5), I used to eat butter, which I know is disgusting, but my grandma would tell my mom that she should just let me because there must be something that my body needed in that butter. LOL, I was a skinny little thing -- maybe I needed the fat. But sometimes I find that I crave certain vegetables or fruits or even meat and I figure that I'm missing some nutrient that I need. Also, being hypotensive (low blood pressure), sometimes I crave salt -- probably to balance out the Sodium/Potassium levels in my blood.

Since Mary is going through puberty, perhaps the oestrogen is something that's beneficial to her.

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I asked her about the soy beans and she said they were frozen, so I'm guessing they were pre-cooked, especially if that's how they are sold. Whenever I've seen them served at restaurants, they appear to be steamed or boiled or something. (I've never eaten them). She likes Miso with Tofu, like I do. And she's had sauteed tofu at a friend's house. She really likes it, too.

Susan,

I presume your daughter was probably eat EDAMAME, which are green soybeans and not toxic. Miso is fermented and very good. Tempeh is fermented as well. Occasional tofu isn't going to hurt. I think the majority of the people that have problems are people who depend mainly on soy for protein, or eat excessive amounts of it thinking that it's beneficial. I have read many accounts of thyroid issues from ex-vegans.

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