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Intestinal/Digestive Cleanses do NOT cure acne.

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Oh, I don't have psychological problems. I'm actually very stable. Are you a psychologist? I do have issues with certain medical (and homeopathic) procedures, but that doesn't make, me a wacko and my resevations have good reasons.....which I won't go into......

okay - we get it. you don't NEED to go into it or subtly imply it every other post. you had a traumatic experience when you were younger that has basically made it impossible for you to consider internal cleansing to help your acne. therefore, you collect and rely on every single reason you can think of as to why it wouldn't work for you - even IF you were open to it.

i'm not at all condemning you for this pattern of thinking - as i believe EVERYONE does it with regard to one thing or another. but the bottom line is it's your personal choice based on experience and this is something we're all entitled to.

i've personally chosen not to do any colonics or liver flushing - mostly because i'm content with my current skin condition (acheived through diet, and probiotics - which i think have gone a long way to clean me internally over time). however, i have absolutely no reason to believe colonics/flushing would improve my condition or not - until i try it for myself.

Whatever.....I'm done whith this stupid thread........

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Don't worry. This isn't the lounge. I'm not personally attacking anyone here. This is a debatable topic, and there's nothing wrong with a difference of opinion. Actually in the realm of scientific research that is what often sparks new discoveries. What would have happened to physics if Max Planck hadn't agreed to disagree with the entire field of Newtonian physics? We would have had no Einstein. No theory of relativity, not quantum mechanics (Well at least I wouldn't have had to sit through 2 semesters of the stuff....just to make makeup for a living).....

Let's all just disagree...........

Aww, I like quantum mechanics. Chemistry major here :)

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Damn. I read this whole thread all the way through to the end and I STILL don't see how the bacteria in the gut are supposed to relate to P.acnes bacteria in the pores.

I also don't see how the unspecified toxins in the body are supposed to be causing acne.

The last time I asked a question about this, someone directed me to askshelley.com, where I was informed that emotions are stored in the liver. That was unhelpful. Please don't send me back there.

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I also don't see how the unspecified toxins in the body are supposed to be causing acne.

to me, toxins means environmental pollutants (absorbed through air, food, water, skin contact), plus your own inflammatory mediators, cytokines, free radicals, pro-inflammatory prostaglandins, complement, and excitotoxins (glutamate).

all these chemicals lead to oxidative stress and chronic inflammation within the body and skin. increased inflammation causes hyper-proliferation of sebocytes and keratinocytes leading to more acne.

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Damn. I read this whole thread all the way through to the end and I STILL don't see how the bacteria in the gut are supposed to relate to P.acnes bacteria in the pores.

I also don't see how the unspecified toxins in the body are supposed to be causing acne.

The last time I asked a question about this, someone directed me to askshelley.com, where I was informed that emotions are stored in the liver. That was unhelpful. Please don't send me back there.

LMAO, emotions in the liver...I never went to askshelly for any information, that's for sure.

But there are about 500 species of bacteria living on/in our bodies...I doubt P.acnes interacts with bifidus and acidophilus.

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Damn. I read this whole thread all the way through to the end and I STILL don't see how the bacteria in the gut are supposed to relate to P.acnes bacteria in the pores.

I also don't see how the unspecified toxins in the body are supposed to be causing acne.

The last time I asked a question about this, someone directed me to askshelley.com, where I was informed that emotions are stored in the liver. That was unhelpful. Please don't send me back there.

LMAO, emotions in the liver...I never went to askshelly for any information, that's for sure.

But there are about 500 species of bacteria living on/in our bodies...I doubt P.acnes interacts with bifidus and acidophilus.

excuse me for being kinda dumb and speaking in generalizations... but if all of this talk about the liver being the filter of many of the body's hormones is true.... then why should it seem so unreasonable to think that the liver has a direct hand in affecting "emotions" (I'm not even going to touch the definition of that) through specific hormone regulation?

_

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excuse me for being kinda dumb and speaking in generalizations... but if all of this talk about the liver being the filter of many of the body's hormones is true.... then why should it seem so unreasonable to think that the liver has a direct hand in affecting "emotions" (I'm not even going to touch the definition of that) through specific hormone regulation?

It isn't unreasonable at all to talk about hormones in relation to the liver. I am perfectly happy to hear an intelligent discussion of that.

But I cannot take any site or any person seriously who makes bald statements such as "emotions are stored in the liver."

I also don't see how the unspecified toxins in the body are supposed to be causing acne.

to me, toxins means environmental pollutants (absorbed through air, food, water, skin contact), plus your own inflammatory mediators, cytokines, free radicals, pro-inflammatory prostaglandins, complement, and excitotoxins (glutamate).

all these chemicals lead to oxidative stress and chronic inflammation within the body and skin. increased inflammation causes hyper-proliferation of sebocytes and keratinocytes leading to more acne.

Thanks, flipside.

Maybe this post should be a sticky ... it was concise and logical.

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Yup. And there are millions of people walking around with over 10 mercury containing fillings. And they don't all have cystic acne.

Mercury fillings are safe. It's stupid to debate that. They have been proven safe time and time again. I couldn't agree with labgirl more.

Oh, I think the "technicians" that peform colonics are indeed perverts. What thrill do they get out of cleaning someone's day old waste out of their colon? I guess it could be 10 years old... since people do have like 15 lbs of fecal matter stuck to the walls of their colon. Perhaps? Ohhhhh wait. Mucus is there to move things along...Phew, thank God we have mucus in our colons... and thank God the cells lining the intestines constantly renew themselves.

Those perverts are just out to make money. Colonics have the potential to do a lot more harm than good.

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Yup. And there are millions of people walking around with over 10 mercury containing fillings. And they don't all have cystic acne.

Mercury fillings are safe. It's stupid to debate that. They have been proven safe time and time again. I couldn't agree with labgirl more.

Oh, I think the "technicians" that peform colonics are indeed perverts. What thrill do they get out of cleaning someone's day old waste out of their colon? I guess it could be 10 years old... since people do have like 15 lbs of fecal matter stuck to the walls of their colon. Perhaps? Ohhhhh wait. Mucus is there to move things along...Phew, thank God we have mucus in our colons... and thank God the cells lining the intestines constantly renew themselves.

Those perverts are just out to make money. Colonics have the potential to do a lot more harm than good.

Totally agree. I hate surgeons even more. They cut you open and root around. The whole medical community...perverts...the lot of them.

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We're not discussing M.D.'s here... we're discussing the equivalent of an esthetician performing laser surgery for acne scarring (often referred to as "laser technicians-laughable at best).

When's the last time you heard an M.D. advertising in the paper "Colonics cleansing treatment package- 6 for $750"?

Never.

It's funny you'd even compare a "technician" (I'm quoting because I could perform a colonic if I wanted to) to a MEDICAL DOCTOR that went to MEDICAL SCHOOL.

LOL- Your sarcasm actually made me laugh... the thought of you comparing someone that does colonics to a surgeon is hysterical. Thanks for making my day. Hahahaha.

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Oh, I don't have psychological problems. I'm actually very stable. Are you a psychologist? I do have issues with certain medical (and homeopathic) procedures, but that doesn't make, me a wacko and my resevations have good reasons.....which I won't go into......

okay - we get it. you don't NEED to go into it or subtly imply it every other post. you had a traumatic experience when you were younger that has basically made it impossible for you to consider internal cleansing to help your acne. therefore, you collect and rely on every single reason you can think of as to why it wouldn't work for you - even IF you were open to it.

i'm not at all condemning you for this pattern of thinking - as i believe EVERYONE does it with regard to one thing or another. but the bottom line is it's your personal choice based on experience and this is something we're all entitled to.

i've personally chosen not to do any colonics or liver flushing - mostly because i'm content with my current skin condition (acheived through diet, and probiotics - which i think have gone a long way to clean me internally over time). however, i have absolutely no reason to believe colonics/flushing would improve my condition or not - until i try it for myself.

Whatever.....I'm done whith this stupid thread........

Why are you done with this stupid thread all of a sudden when you have been so vehement in proclaiming how colonics are not the answer, for you or anyone else, and how intestinal bacteria have zilch to do with acne? It was your choice to be so open about your past experiences and if someone else has an opinion on what you have said then that is no reason to up sticks and fly off dramatically, kinda premadonnaish don't you think? :think: I am also a bit confused about how you would not touch an anitbiotic but are quite pepared to go on a potentially debilitating course of Accutane - we have a full blown case of selective medication predjudice folks!! :dance: Only jesting... Seriously though, as you said at the start of this thread, there is nothing wrong with healthy debate, and as far as I can tell the debate is not over.

From my understanding of it, bacterial dysbiosis in the gut produces an excess of unhealthy bacteria which produce toxins that can be reabsorbed back into the body, especially in the case of leaky gut syndrome where gut permeability is an issue. If the liver is not functioning optimally, as is increasingly the case in this day and age of medications, chemical contamination, vaccinations, pollution, and unhealthy diet and lifestyles, then toxins produced by bacteria in the gut that a healthy liver would normally be able to deal with, cannot be broken down in the normal way. In such an event the body seeks alternative pathways of elimination such as storage in fat cells or through the skin. As we all know (don't we?) the elimination of toxins through the skin effects its health integrity, add into the mix excess sebum production, comodone formation and abnormal keritinization = ACNE.

So thats how I see it.

And labgirl, I don't know if you read my other post a while back about raised cortisol levels in relation to your traumatic experience, but I really think you should consider a course of SSRI's - low stress tolerance is something I feel you really need to think about, especially after going through such a vicious experience. It sounds like you are have raised cortisol levels as a result of what happened to you - your hair falling out is a classic sign. Once you are in a stress cycle, it is not so easy to get out, even after the stress has been removed. The fact that you seem to be supressing what happened to you is also a telling sign of unresolved psychological issues - you are not doing 'just fine' by pushing the memories way down, quite the reverse, you are doing serious damage to your psyche and physical health. Please see a councellor about your situation, and maybe look into the possibility of anti depressants - you may not think you are depressed, but you posts suggest otherwise. Depression and stress are bed partners after all....

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We're not discussing M.D.'s here... we're discussing the equivalent of an esthetician performing laser surgery for acne scarring (often referred to as "laser technicians-laughable at best).

When's the last time you heard an M.D. advertising in the paper "Colonics cleansing treatment package- 6 for $750"?

Never.

It's funny you'd even compare a "technician" (I'm quoting because I could perform a colonic if I wanted to) to a MEDICAL DOCTOR that went to MEDICAL SCHOOL.

LOL- Your sarcasm actually made me laugh... the thought of you comparing someone that does colonics to a surgeon is hysterical. Thanks for making my day. Hahahaha.

relax. I wasn't comparing credentials or education, just procedure. It was just a joke. Stress isn't good for you, man. Have a drink or something. This one is on me.

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Why are you done with this stupid thread all of a sudden when you have been so vehement in proclaiming how colonics are not the answer, for you or anyone else, and how intestinal bacteria have zilch to do with acne? It was your choice to be so open about your past experiences and if someone else has an opinion on what you have said then that is no reason to up sticks and fly off dramatically, kinda premadonnaish don't you think? :think: I am also a bit confused about how you would not touch an anitbiotic but are quite pepared to go on a potentially debilitating course of Accutane - we have a full blown case of selective medication predjudice folks!! :dance: Only jesting... Seriously though, as you said at the start of this thread, there is nothing wrong with healthy debate, and as far as I can tell the debate is not over.

I just got annoyed and I was starting to think too much about things I shouldn't think about, and I can't argue with people who can't back up what they are insisting upon........and it is me that just doesn't get the connection between 10 year old fecal matter stuck to the walls of your colon and layers upon layers of "mucoid plaque" ( :rolleyes: ) contribiute to the bacteria on your face........What on earth does getting a colonic accoplish?. Does it wash out all the bad bactera and leave the good ones there?......and what about the "bad" bacteria way up in the small intestinse where the water doesn't reach (I think I may puke at any moment). It is me who just doesn't understand here......If this were scioentifically documented and clincally proven to be effective don't you think it would be considered a treatment for acne.......Instead of doerms saying how bout a course of Accutane or a lazer treatment....they'd say bend over an let me stick this tube up your butt"......don't you think it world be a little more popular........

I do not have case a of "selective medication predjudice." (:rolleyes: once again). Never did I discount the notin that Candida is a real fungus that can potentially cause problems if it's growth isn't kept in check. As a woman I am fully aware of it's wrath.....I don't want to walk around with a six month long yeast infection.......(it's TMI, yes, but the nature of this tread is going there anyway so whatever). This bugger can also overgrow in other areas of the body too.........I do not discount candida at all......I don't have it, but it can be a diagnosable infection.....somtimes a fatal one in immunocompramised patients. It's even been implied in heart disease and heart valve damage.........Antibiotics casue an imbalance in the intestinal microflora (and in other areas too)......which I do have respect for........Accutane does not......It actually is the closest timh to a cure for acne we've got........It corrcts the root of the problem......overactive sebaceous glands......

From my understanding of it, bacterial dysbiosis in the gut produces an excess of unhealthy bacteria which produce toxins that can be reabsorbed back into the body, especially in the case of leaky gut syndrome where gut permeability is an issue. If the liver is not functioning optimally, as is increasingly the case in this day and age of medications, chemical contamination, vaccinations, pollution, and unhealthy diet and lifestyles, then toxins produced by bacteria in the gut that a healthy liver would normally be able to deal with, cannot be broken down in the normal way. In such an event the body seeks alternative pathways of elimination such as storage in fat cells or through the skin. As we all know (don't we?) the elimination of toxins through the skin effects its health integrity, add into the mix excess sebum production, comodone formation and abnormal keritinization = ACNE.

"Gut dysbiosis" is a term I only came across while researching holistic medicine. This condition is not a medically documneted condition. Same thing with "leaky gut syndrome".......do you know what happens if the intestines are able to leak their contents into the abdomenal cavity?......you get a nasty infection called mesenteritis and the infection quiclky spreads to the bloodstream......you become spetic and die......... acne would then be the least of your concerns. The more I research holistic medicine the less I agree with it. And it suck because I like dthe idea at first. A cure for this "gut dysbiosis" is lemme guess...... never eating processed foods or refined carbs. As if there really is a difference between sucrose and sprouted bread or spelt bread when it comes to what happens in the small intestine........the end prooducts of all carbs, no matter how complex......is simple sugars.......so how does depriving yourself of sugars, and allowing the consumption of spelt bread or sprouted bread (which are nasty by the way) cure this supposed "gut dysbiosis" condition....which happens to have the same cure for systemic candida, no antifungal nessecary.......I smell a placebo effect coming on.........

The skin can be an organ of elimnation, I'm not dounting that, but your gonna have to do better than just saying the "toxins" induce abnormal skin cell desquamation and cause hyperkeratinization.......my acne is not a result of all those trisiloxne and isododecane vapors I inhale at work all day coming out of my skin because my liver can't process them.......that is just bullshit.......when someone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the reason I have acne is beacuse my body has become a toxic cespool of toxins.......maybe I'll believe it......but If my liver were really compramized why would my bloodwork be so beautiful.......My cholestrerol is low, my triglycerieds are very low, my livere enzymes are all in check and my biliruben is low.....if my liver were becomeing "toxic" there would at least be a slight elevation in AST and ALT, and my triglycerides wouldn't be nearly as low as they are..........

And labgirl, I don't know if you read my other post a while back about raised cortisol levels in relation to your traumatic experience, but I really think you should consider a course of SSRI's - low stress tolerance is something I feel you really need to think about, especially after going through such a vicious experience. It sounds like you are have raised cortisol levels as a result of what happened to you - your hair falling out is a classic sign. Once you are in a stress cycle, it is not so easy to get out, even after the stress has been removed. The fact that you seem to be supressing what happened to you is also a telling sign of unresolved psychological issues - you are not doing 'just fine' by pushing the memories way down, quite the reverse, you are doing serious damage to your psyche and physical health. Please see a councellor about your situation, and maybe look into the possibility of anti depressants - you may not think you are depressed, but you posts suggest otherwise. Depression and stress are bed partners after all....

I did read it, and I ignored it. I feel the same way about SSRI's and tricyclic antidepresseants as I do about antibiotics. Yes my neurochemistry was a bit fucked up. Most people's would be. I have extremely high stress tolerance actually. You have a guy tell you ten times a day that he's going to cut your throat in your sleep or disembowel you in front of your boyfriend (for ten months straight)....and you tell me how you can sleep at night and go to work every day, like nothing is wrong. Then have him try to attack you and in a blind rage you beat him almost to death with a baseball bat.......then wake up and go to work the next day like nothing happened......take your blood stained comforter to the cleaners and when they ask what happend....respond "just a little accident"..........I never as much as missed a day of work over the incident (well except once when he slashed my tires)..........I'm doing the same thing with Mr. Stalker as I did with Mr. Pervert back when I was 12. There is nothing wrong with doing what I am doing. If I allow this stuff to get to me I'll fall apart. I don't even cry anymore......I can't cry.....I just don't know how to.....my tear ducts are broken.....Sometimes I'd like to cry for my Mom.....but I can't......I miss her tso much it hurts physically, but she'd understand why I couldn't cry for her........I visit her all the time, and make the best of the time that's left......

Humans don't have to be emotoinal. Emotions make us weak. If I let myself feel even the slightest hint of sadness or anger. or fear.....I wouldn't be able to function the way I do. I wouldn't have been able to graduate college at 19. I wouldn't be where I am in my career, or have the amazing boyfriend that I have. I wouldn't have been able to stop stalker boy the way I did........I wouldn't be me........

I did see a "professional" once, only because it would help my court case. She basically said I was fucked, and about to have a psychochtic break, because I wasn't reacting right. I had no emotions. I was suppoesd to be sad or angry or something. But I was nothing.........I left early because I was bored........

I know of the connection between depression and acute stress.....I've done quite a bit of reading up on neuropsychology. From what I gather, depression is a physiological condition, not a psyhological one. But the mind can be a powerful thing (I can even give my self goosbumps and make them disappear just by concentrating)...I wish it were that easy to do with acne........but you can't just concentrate and make cysts go away.....I'm workin on it.......Accutane will help in the mean time.........

Antidepressents for depression do the same thing that antibiotics do for acne.....they mask the symptoms they don't correct the imbalance.......I can't very well take Paxil for the rest of my life......

I could feel depression physically, but not psychologically. I don't have depression now......My body doesn't ache. My hair isn't falling out. I don't need to sleep 24/7. I can go to the gym, and I can cook and do chores......I'm gonna be just fine......

Why deal with thing that really don't need to be dealt with......How is forcing myself to remember thing I'm not supposed to going to help? I'm better off not remembering. If done correctly repression can be a very useful tool in dealing with life after trauma.........I don't need to cry about it and take pills for the rest of my life........I'm fine forgetting it..........I can force myself to forget........I'm really good at it........

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Here is an abstract of a study. "Impact of impaired intestinal microflora on the course of acne vulgaris." I'm requesting the whole article through my university, so I'll post it when I get it.

It's also interesting that rosacea and gastrointestinal issues get some attention from the medical community. Something like 70-80% (don't have the exact figure, but it's up there) of rosacea sufferers also have acne.

Here's a couple abstracts:

Rosacea

"Remission of rosacea induced by reduction of gut transit time"

Here's a little excerpt from the abstract:

"In this report, a patient without digestive tract disease is described, who experienced complete remission of rosacea symptoms following ingestion of a material intended to sweep through the digestive tract and reduce transit time below 30 h."

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Even if it does not cure acne, Id bet money it's a step in the right direction twards the cure.

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Why deal with thing that really don't need to be dealt with......How is forcing myself to remember thing I'm not supposed to going to help? I'm better off not remembering. If done correctly repression can be a very useful tool in dealing with life after trauma.........I don't need to cry about it and take pills for the rest of my life........I'm fine forgetting it..........I can force myself to forget........I'm really good at it........

You obviously are dealing with them, in your own way. You brought up the subject yourself and you're posting paragraph after paragraph about it in an acne forum. If it helps, go for it. If not, why are you subjecting a bunch of strangers to your psychological distress? Your posts belong in the emo forum, but you don't post them there, because that would be admitting you wanted to talk about it.

No ill feelings, Labgirl. I hope you figure it out, either way.

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Here is an abstract of a study. "Impact of impaired intestinal microflora on the course of acne vulgaris." I'm requesting the whole study through my university, so I'll post it when I get it.

Rosacea

"Remission of rosacea induced by reduction of gut transit time"

cjb, the links don't work .... I get a page saying I'm not logged in, and of course I can't log in. Perhaps you could cut & paste some of the good stuff for us? thanks much ....

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very interesting stuff cjb.

[skin manifestations of diseases of the gastrointestinal tract]

[Article in German]

Borelli S.

Abteilung Dermatologie, Kantonsspital Aarau. [email protected]

Diseases of the gut frequently show skin symptoms. These can give first and important clues in regard to diagnosis. In general the etiology can be divided into genetic disorders, chronic inflammation, drug reaction, infectious diseases or related to malignancy. In genetic disorders increasing knowledge about the involved genes is available, allowing prenatal diagnosis and screening of clinically not affected family members. Especially in cancer prone syndromes early diagnosis and preventive treatment is crucial. Inflammatory bowel diseases show a high prevalence, therefore necessitating the knowledge of skin complications such as pyoderma gangrenosum, Sweet syndrome and erythema nodosum. Gastrointestinal malignancies may metastasize into the skin or may produce typical paraneoplastic changes.

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Antidepressents for depression do the same thing that antibiotics do for acne.....they mask the symptoms they don't correct the imbalance.......I can't very well take Paxil for the rest of my life......

I could feel depression physically, but not psychologically. I don't have depression now......My body doesn't ache. My hair isn't falling out. I don't need to sleep 24/7. I can go to the gym, and I can cook and do chores......I'm gonna be just fine......

Why deal with thing that really don't need to be dealt with......How is forcing myself to remember thing I'm not supposed to going to help? I'm better off not remembering. If done correctly repression can be a very useful tool in dealing with life after trauma.........I don't need to cry about it and take pills for the rest of my life........I'm fine forgetting it..........I can force myself to forget........I'm really good at it........

Or do they correct an imbalance? I used to think the same way about antidepressants until I tried them at a time that I had got to the point of not being able to deal with all the stuff in my head anymore - and trust me, there was a fuck of alot of stuff in my head, 16 years worth precisely, 6 of which involved having a child in an abusive relationship. I realised that sometimes your head just needs a kick start, something to get it out of the mental loop that becomes second natue after a while - repetitive thoughts, mood swings, apathy, manic behaviour, agression - whatever manifestation the "depression" takes, and of course it is going to vary from inividual to individual.

Whatever makes you think they need to be taken for the rest of your life? Christ I hope not - my GP recommended that I take them for a year and I thought that that was a fuck of a long time! The new breed of antidepressants are not designed to be taken forever - they are only half the battle, the rest is up to you. Cognitive behaviour therapy and high quality councelling are often good ways to go. Unfortunately, my area does not offer CBT on the NHS and I can't afford to pay for it, so I made do with reading a good book on the subject. Other than that I try to think happy thoughts (which is becoming increasingly easier and habitual), dig my veg patch, go swimming and study for my degree. Seems to be workin so far!

You have been through a severe trauma. Don't underestimate the mental damage such a thing can do to you, and don't overestimate your ability to deal with it alone. Nuff said.

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"Gut dysbiosis" is a term I only came across while researching holistic medicine. This condition is not a medically documneted condition. Same thing with "leaky gut syndrome".......do you know what happens if the intestines are able to leak their contents into the abdomenal cavity?......you get a nasty infection called mesenteritis and the infection quiclky spreads to the bloodstream......you become spetic and die......... acne would then be the least of your concerns. The more I research holistic medicine the less I agree with it. And it suck because I like dthe idea at first. A cure for this "gut dysbiosis" is lemme guess...... never eating processed foods or refined carbs. As if there really is a difference between sucrose and sprouted bread or spelt bread when it comes to what happens in the small intestine........the end prooducts of all carbs, no matter how complex......is simple sugars.......so how does depriving yourself of sugars, and allowing the consumption of spelt bread or sprouted bread (which are nasty by the way) cure this supposed "gut dysbiosis" condition....which happens to have the same cure for systemic candida, no antifungal nessecary.......I smell a placebo effect coming on.........

The skin can be an organ of elimnation, I'm not dounting that, but your gonna have to do better than just saying the "toxins" induce abnormal skin cell desquamation and cause hyperkeratinization.......my acne is not a result of all those trisiloxne and isododecane vapors I inhale at work all day coming out of my skin because my liver can't process them.......that is just bullshit.......when someone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the reason I have acne is beacuse my body has become a toxic cespool of toxins.......maybe I'll believe it......but If my liver were really compramized why would my bloodwork be so beautiful.......My cholestrerol is low, my triglycerieds are very low, my livere enzymes are all in check and my biliruben is low.....if my liver were becomeing "toxic" there would at least be a slight elevation in AST and ALT, and my triglycerides wouldn't be nearly as low as they are.......

Orthodox medicine does'nt document alot of stuff that is not in its paradigm of accepted wisdom or interests as a whole. Leaky gut syndrome does not refer to huge great chunks of the intestinal tract that are missing - I have no doubt that shit leaking into the abdominal cavity would not only be a number ten on the gross scale, but would also cause a pretty hefty infection! The leaky gut caused by candida would be on a microscopic level - on a nutrient and toxin level - and the damage would be on a cellular basis.

You said that you were'nt discounting candida cos it was a recognisable condition, in which case you kind of have to accept gut dysbiosis too, coes the two things go hand in hand. Excess candida growth is essentially a result of gut dysbiosis cos it is the good bacteria (acidiofillus, bifidobacterium etc.) that keeps the yeast levels in check. Once the bad bacteria outnumber the good, then candida is able to flourish proportionally.

And as far as sugar is concerned, well it is not so simple as "a sugar is just a sugar at the end of the day" type thinking. Sugar is about as bad, nutritionally devoid a thing you can eat. Period. To elaborate....

SUGAR-IT’S EFFECTS ON THE BODY & MIND

notes from various sources Back

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EFFECT OF SUGAR ON NEUROLOGICAL PROCESSES

REFINED SUGAR-A DRUG?

WHAT ABOUT GUM CHEWING?

Of all the foods consumed today, refined sugar is considered to be one of the most harmful.

...In 1997 Americans devoured 7.3 billion pounds of candy. Americans spent an estimated $23.1 billion dollars on candy and gum. The average American consumed a record 27.3 pounds of candy and gum in the same year-the equivalent of about six regular sized chocolate bars a week-marking the fifth consecutive year of increased demand. (1)

...Consumption of processed foods (which are laced with sugar) cost the American public more than $54 billion in dental bills each year, so the dental industry reaps huge profits from the programmed addiction of the public to sugar products.

...Today we have a nation that is addicted to sugar. In 1915, the national average of sugar consumption (per year) was around 15 to 20 pounds per person. Today the average person consumes his/her weight in sugar, plus over 20 pounds of corn syrup.

To add more horrors to these facts there are some people that use no sweets and some who use much less than the average figure, which means that there is a percentage of the population that consume a great deal more refined sugar than their body weight. The human body cannot tolerate this large amount of refined carbohydrates. The vital organs in the body are actually damaged by this gross intake of sugar.

...Refined sugar contains no fiber, no minerals, no proteins, no fats, no enzymes, only empty calories. What happens when you eat a refined carbohydrate like sugar? Your body must borrow vital nutrients from healthy cells to metabolize the incomplete food. Calcium, sodium, potassium and magnesium are taken from various parts of the body to make use of the sugar. Many times, so much calcium is used to neutralize the effects of sugar that the bones become osteoporotic due to the withdrawn calcium.

Likewise, the teeth are affected and they lose their components until decay occurs and hastens their loss.

...Refined sugar is void of all nutrients, consequently it causes the body to deplete its own stores of various vitamins, minerals and enzymes. If sugar consumption is continued, an over-acid condition results, and more minerals are needed from deep in the body to correct the imbalance. If the body is lacking the nutrients used to metabolize sugar, it will not be able to properly handle and rid itself of the poisonous residues.

These wastes accumulate through the brain and nervous system, which speeds up cellular death. The bloodstream becomes over-loaded with waste products and symptoms of carbonic poisoning result.

...Sugar also makes the blood very thick and sticky, inhibiting much of the blood flow into the minute capillaries that supply our gums and teeth with vital nutrients. Therefore, we wind up with diseased gums and starving teeth. America and England, the two largest sugar consumers, have horrendous dental problems.

As far as your liver is concerned, it could very well that your acne has nothing to do with it, and is more the result of (or a combination of) overactive sebaceous glands, abnormal kertinization, desquamation, or a stress response (which seems a distinct possibility in your case, especially as it started so abruptly). However, this is not to say that abnormal liver function or gut dysbiosis are not an isue for some. God broke the mold when he made each and every one of us.... :angel:

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cjb, the links don't work .... I get a page saying I'm not logged in, and of course I can't log in. Perhaps you could cut & paste some of the good stuff for us? thanks much ....

Oh stupid me.. I should have known. Sorry, guys. I will have to relocate the articles, and then I will cut and paste the abstracts.

Rubber sheep...I'm not sure I can get those articles... I don't have access to pubmed.

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rubbersheep and cjb, is this the abstract?

Acta Derm Venereol Suppl (Stockh). 1991;156:57-60. Related Articles, Links

Psyche and skin.

Schulman G.

In this short communication, I intend to present a specific psycho-dynamic theory which explains some of the psychodynamics associated with eczemas and perhaps to some other skin lesions. It provides a framework for understanding and treating such lesions with pure psychodynamic methods, i.e., by psychoanalysis or analytic psychotherapy. These ideas were first presented in 1968 by Ester Bick, a Polish psychoanalyst living in London. Her theory of the role of the primal object for the baby, as the provider of necessary psychological containment, a kind of psychological skin, has proven to be of great value for psychoanalysts and psychotherapists treating adults and children with skin problems. When this "skin function" of the caretaking object fails, real skin lesions may follow. When the person finds in treatment an object who has this containing function, his/her skin heals.

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Well, I don't have much to contribute seeing as I haven't been thru any internal cleasing. . .yet. I recently threw in the pro-active solution towel. I swear it only makes me even more acne prone, now I've got acne in places I've never had acne before.. I look a mess.

Anyway, my mom bought Dr.Natura's colonix for me, I'll be starting next week. After my colon cleanse I'm onto a liver flush, and finally a candida cleanse[possibly followed by a blood cleanse] . Of course all of this will be achieved/maintained with a strict [to say the least] mostly raw food diet/8 glasses of pure water each day. Acne hasn't burdened me overnight, so I do not expect this burden to be fully lifted overnight either. I'm going to give this time...around 5 months at the most. I will be reporting back results, if any. Wish me luck.

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fuck it. im going for colonics. its against my principles, but fuck it. id do everything to get better. not gonna tell anyone about this though. not even my parents.

scheduled an appointment for next wednesday. 55 euros.

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