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LabGirl81

I just made a MMU!!!!

I just made a mineral makeup. I've been talking to my boss for years about us doing a mineral makeup. she's not a fan of powders and though the idea was silly, so I never worked on it. I work for a huge mass market company, and there aren't many mass market mineral makeups out there yet. Physicians formula came out with theirs, and Neutrogena has one coming out soon. So I guess the pressure's on now....

We have this meeting coming up with a big wig VP of R&D in tomorrow about new technology and new products that were working on. My boss came up to me about 2 hours ago, and said "were's my mineral makeup?." I was like "WTF, you told me it was a stupid idea last year." She though it would be a nice addition to our presentation tomorrow... so I dropped everything and pulled out some micronized pigments, mica and bismuth oxychloride....I added a little boron nitride cuz it feels awesome and I had to add a shitload of preservatives (parabens and stuff), because my company could never get away with a preservative free prouduct with the FDA up our asses all the time....

I put it all in a blender and 4 minutes later....I had a product very similar to and actually nicer than Bare Minerals. Better coverage, feels nicer and more natural looking.....The whole process took me less than an hour. Figuring out the formula and hunting down the raw materials took about 45 minutes, it took about 5 minutes to weight out and 4 minutes to blend....and it turned out to be my exact shade....

I can make one of my own without the preservatives for my own use....I don't have to spend 25$ on bare minerals when I only wear the stuff once a week anyway....Pure Minerals form the earth my ass.....

Yay!!!! Go me....

:dance:

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Guest Gentle~Rain

:clap:

I plan on trying this one day soon too :D

I started a thread about making your own..., but it wasn't a smash hit :(

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OMG! Can you set up a lab in your house and sell us stuff??? :whistle: That would be WICKED!

(I still think your job is so neat!)

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Guest Gentle~Rain

Labgirl, what line do you work for???

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right on labgirl...

when you go for your Ph.D, you could totally have a side project to make some extra cash. I guarantee you'd have some immediate customers, myself included!!

as long as no animal testing is involved...you can test on me!

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Just cuz I whipped something up in the lab doesn't mean it's going to be put on the market. We develop formulas all the time that never go anywhere. Either our bosses (managers, directors, VP's ect.) kill it or marketing doesn't like the idea (or knows we don't have enough money to launch them).

Plus we'd never be able to get away with a preservative free system, since this is a huge mass market company. We are always being watched very closely by the FDA. Big companies can get away with far less then the little private label companies can, since the big companies have more liability (aka more money).

I highly doubt this product will make it past the meeting today....but I think it's cool that I could whip one up in under an hour.

OMG! Can you set up a lab in your house and sell us stuff??? :whistle: That would be WICKED!

(I still think your job is so neat!)

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Plus we'd never be able to get away with a preservative free system, since this is a huge mass market company. We are always being watched very closely by the FDA. Big companies can get away with far less then the little private label companies can, since the big companies have more liability (aka more money).

I highly doubt this product will make it past the meeting today....but I think it's cool that I could whip one up in under an hour.

? Minerals are inorganic, and cannot degrade - therefore the use of a preservative is not necessary, or required.

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Plus we'd never be able to get away with a preservative free system, since this is a huge mass market company. We are always being watched very closely by the FDA. Big companies can get away with far less then the little private label companies can, since the big companies have more liability (aka more money).

I highly doubt this product will make it past the meeting today....but I think it's cool that I could whip one up in under an hour.

? Minerals are inorganic, and cannot degrade - therefore the use of a preservative is not necessary, or required.

Not true. a preservative system prevents the overgrowth of bugs (fungi, bacteria, etc). A dry powder like a mineral makeup contains no water, or organic materials, however they are still capable of growing bugs if inouculated (by you hands or a dirty brush or sponge). Most mineral makeup systems are unpreserved, which is fine, since dry inorganic powders are not typically the best breeding ground for bugs (but it doesn't mean that they can't support a colony of bacteria or fungi).

Most of the ingredients used in mineral makeups are irradiated to kill any bugs present in the raw materials, so they are almost sterile when packaged. It's only when you open them and stick a dirty brush (which has sebum and bacteria from your face on it) in them that the bugs can start to grow. Usually they have expiration dates on them. This is because eventually after a years worth of applications they can start to get a bit funky...

I had a bare minerals eyeshadow for about a year (which is not preservative free, but very underpreserved). I had been using it wet (which they actually instruct). I would put a little powder in the lid, add a few drops of water to make a thin paste and then I'd apply it, and wipe out the cap. After a few months of not using it, I used some and got an eye infection (on both eyes). I went to the micro lab down the hall to ask them to do a plate count, and the bugs were off the chart...(note to self....never ever use a mineral eyeshadow wet again)....needless to say I chuked that eyeshadow and bought a new one....

I also keep my mineral makeup in the freezer....This way it won't have any chance of growing bugs, and it feels nice and refreshing when I put it on....

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. After a few months of not using it, I used some and got an eye infection (on both eyes). I went to the micro lab down the hall to ask them to do a plate count, and the bugs were off the chart

Yuck! Sick! :sick:

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Plus we'd never be able to get away with a preservative free system, since this is a huge mass market company. We are always being watched very closely by the FDA. Big companies can get away with far less then the little private label companies can, since the big companies have more liability (aka more money).

I highly doubt this product will make it past the meeting today....but I think it's cool that I could whip one up in under an hour.

? Minerals are inorganic, and cannot degrade - therefore the use of a preservative is not necessary, or required.

Not true. a preservative system prevents the overgrowth of bugs (fungi, bacteria, etc). A dry powder like a mineral makeup contains no water, or organic materials, however they are still capable of growing bugs if inouculated (by you hands or a dirty brush or sponge). Most mineral makeup systems are unpreserved, which is fine, since dry inorganic powders are not typically the best breeding ground for bugs (but it doesn't mean that they can't support a colony of bacteria or fungi).

Most of the ingredients used in mineral makeups are irradiated to kill any bugs present in the raw materials, so they are almost sterile when packaged. It's only when you open them and stick a dirty brush (which has sebum and bacteria from your face on it) in them that the bugs can start to grow. Usually they have expiration dates on them. This is because eventually after a years worth of applications they can start to get a bit funky...

I had a bare minerals eyeshadow for about a year (which is not preservative free, but very underpreserved). I had been using it wet (which they actually instruct). I would put a little powder in the lid, add a few drops of water to make a thin paste and then I'd apply it, and wipe out the cap. After a few months of not using it, I used some and got an eye infection (on both eyes). I went to the micro lab down the hall to ask them to do a plate count, and the bugs were off the chart...(note to self....never ever use a mineral eyeshadow wet again)....needless to say I chuked that eyeshadow and bought a new one....

I also keep my mineral makeup in the freezer....This way it won't have any chance of growing bugs, and it feels nice and refreshing when I put it on....

Right. I'm not saying bacteria could not be introduced, or that it couldn't thrive given the correct environment. I'm saying that the FDA wouldn't be able to enforce the use of a preservative system in an inorganic composition. That's not to say that your comapny wouldn't be overly concerned and err on the side of caution. I'm dying to know who you work for...

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Right. I'm not saying bacteria could not be introduced, or that it couldn't thrive given the correct environment. I'm saying that the FDA wouldn't be able to enforce the use of a preservative system in an inorganic composition. That's not to say that your comapny wouldn't be overly concerned and err on the side of caution.

That's true. Most big companies err on the side of caution when it comes to preservation (mine is one of the worst offenders when it comes to preservative overkill), since large compaines have way more liability than small ones. I still don't understand how the FDA hasn't come down on Bare Escentuals for not preserving their foundation. The claim SPF 15 , so their product is actually considered an OTC drug. OTC drugs usually require a drug stability program that tests all active levels (in this case of zinc and titamium) as well as the levels of the preservatives over time (3-6 months at 40 degrees C). I just don't get how they get away with it....I don't work in requlatory so I'm sure there has to be a loophole somewhere that I don't know about.......

True mineral makeups really don't need a preservative system, as long as they aren't used wet (or water isn't introduced to the product) and that they have an expiration date on them.....It just freaks me out a little to think what could be growing in my makeup (I've seen the plate count results on my eyshadow...eeeeww)

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Another question for labgirl...

Is the spf in mineral makeup stable? or in other words, does it last? I'm really pale and on retin a; so I need some sun protection.

I was using eucerin spf 30, but it was greasy so I stopped.

Also, someone told me that there really isn't that much of a difference between spf 15 and anything higher than that. :think: I know youre a chemist, so I figured you'd know...

do you think I have adequate sun protection using an spf 15 and mineral makeup? or maybe just the MMU?

Your input would be much appreciated... :)

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Guest funky_monkey

How long do you think we should we keep our eyeshadows before ditching them?

(both mineral and my ordinary l'oreal specials)

A year?

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Another question for labgirl...

Is the spf in mineral makeup stable? or in other words, does it last? I'm really pale and on retin a; so I need some sun protection.

I was using eucerin spf 30, but it was greasy so I stopped.

Also, someone told me that there really isn't that much of a difference between spf 15 and anything higher than that. :think: I know youre a chemist, so I figured you'd know...

do you think I have adequate sun protection using an spf 15 and mineral makeup? or maybe just the MMU?

Your input would be much appreciated... :)

The SPF in mineral makeup is stable. Mineral makeups rely on the physical sunscreens Titanium Dioxide and Zinc Oxide. However the SPF value can vary depending on how you apply it. If you only apply a thin layer or only use it to spot cover like I do, then you most likely aren't getting anywhere close to the SPF label claim (this is one area where liquid foundations are superior to mineral makeups). If you do apply enough to acheive full coverage then you may get close to or more then the label claim for SPF. If the formula contains bismuth oxychloride then the product has better skin adhearance, so the zinc and titanuim will stay put for longer, helping the SPF remain constant through out the day (or at least for a few hours). I'd only count on the SPF of a makeup being effective for only a few hours. After it starts to wear off a little the SPF isn't as effective.

I think you only really need to concentrate on SPF if you plan on being outside for more than 30-45 minutes at a time. I don't think you're gonna get sunburn walking from your house to ypur car. Even driving in your car is pretty safe, since the glass blocks some of the UVA and UVB rays, especially in the winter when the sunlight isn't as direct. For most days a single application of an SPF moisturizer should be fine (even if you're fair and on retin-a). I'm pretty fair myself. I wear shade 1.2 Fairly Light, in Bare Minerals. I'm like an yellow based Ivory or Buff in most makeups. I only use an SPF 15 once a day, and I'll only apply an SPF 30 if I'm going to be outside for an extended period of time (like in the summer at the beach).

Theoretically and SPF 30 means that you can be in the sun for 30 times longer wearing a product than when not wearing it (this is actually an average for a group of people). An SPF 15 product only means you can be in the sun for 15 times longer without burning. All SPF measures is UVB protection (what causes you to burn), not UVA (which is what damages the collegen and elastin matrix of the dermis and stimulates melanin production). It's actually the UVA radiation that causes DNA damage that can lead to skin cancer. It also causes damage to the lipid barrier of the skin by lipid peroxidation. But it also stimulated the production of Vitamin D, so filtering out all of it isn't such a good idea.....

On a topical retinoid, your epidermis is thinner, allowing more UVA radiation to penetrate the dermis. This is why a broad spectrum UVA/UVB SPF 15 sunscreen should be used. When it comes to SPF an SPF 15 many or may not be equal to an SPF 30 in terms of UVA protection, it all depends on the formula and the SPF ingerdients used (zinc oxide and Parsol 1789 offer great UVA protection). There is currently no way to quantify UVA protection in a sunscreen, however the FDA is currently rewriting the SPF monograph to include a way to quantify UVA protection...

So there is a difference between SPF 15 and SPF 30, but if it's winter where you are and you don't plan on hanging out i the sun, than stick with the SPF 15 if the SPF 30 is too greasy (most SPF 30's that use chemical sunscreens are greasy). I'd only use a higher SPF if you plan on being exposed for longer than 30-45 minutes...The thing is is that most sunscreens are only effective for 2-3 hours after application. If you burn in 20 minutes without anything on and you put and SPF 15 on you can theoretically be in the sun for 300 minutes without burning. With and SPF 30 on you can stay in the sun for 600 minutes (theoretically speaking). If it becomes ineffective due to wear after 2 hours, it doesn't matter what the SPF is, you'll still burn after two hours and 20 minutes regardless.....so it really doesn't matter what the SPF is after SPF 15 unless the sunscreen formula wears like iron so you don't have to re apply it every two hours (some sport sunscreens wear much longer than traditioal sunscreens due to the high film former content)

How long do you think we should we keep our eyeshadows before ditching them?

(both mineral and my ordinary l'oreal specials)

A year?

A mineral eyeshadow: ditch after 6 months to a year (check if it has an expiration date), and sooner if you use it wet....

A traditional pressed eyeshadow: a well preserved one should last 3 years

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