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Femina Mala Est

More CROSS Before/After

I think the reason why most people do it themselves is because of the cost. You can get your own TCA for $50 or so and the doctors can charge up to several hundred dollars per treatment. If you read that really long TCA cross thread, you should be able to get a sense of what to do and more importantly, what NOT to do. I was scared to do it myself and it took me several months to finally order it. I tried it myself 2 weeks ago and just 2 scars and I can tell they've already filled in about 20%. Just be SUPER CAREFUL if you decide to do it yourself.

And can we please stop this love affair between FEMINA and MISS TENN? It's just a little bit annoying to have to sort through all of that.

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Fireball,

Thats great! What percent are you using?

I did a third session of 50% yesterday and will see how it goes. My skin looks so great right after I do it due to swelling, if only it would stay.

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And can we please stop this love affair between FEMINA and MISS TENN? It's just a little bit annoying to have to sort through all of that.

Hey buddy, this is my thread. I don't have to update or keep a journal or take pictures at all. Take a look at the logs section of the forum. A huge part of those threads is little more than socializing. What's so wrong with that? If you don't want to sort through everything, PM me and I'll answer any and every question you might have.

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I think the reason why most people do it themselves is because of the cost. You can get your own TCA for $50 or so and the doctors can charge up to several hundred dollars per treatment. If you read that really long TCA cross thread, you should be able to get a sense of what to do and more importantly, what NOT to do. I was scared to do it myself and it took me several months to finally order it. I tried it myself 2 weeks ago and just 2 scars and I can tell they've already filled in about 20%. Just be SUPER CAREFUL if you decide to do it yourself.

And can we please stop this love affair between FEMINA and MISS TENN? It's just a little bit annoying to have to sort through all of that.

Thanks, Fireball, I will read more on the subject as I've only begun to look into this method. I appreciate your response!

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about a week ago, i tried a test spot of 100 % tca on one of my more prominent scars. it frosted and scabbed over. now that the scab has fallen off, the scar looks slightly raised, but maybe a little wider?

i'm taking a multiple vitamin and vitamin c supplements.

what kinds of topicals should i be using? what are the best to use post tca recovery? i'm getting confused.

i have green cream, coppper peptides, emu oil, and hylaluronic acid serum.

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And can we please stop this love affair between FEMINA and MISS TENN? It's just a little bit annoying to have to sort through all of that.

I don't really like you.

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Femina,

How much "down time" do you usually have after you perform your TCA CROSS? If I did CROSS, I would probably treat over 100 spots and I'm wondering how long I would be stuck in the house. I guess the scabs would be the worst part as that would be tough to cover up if I HAD to go somewhere. How have you (and anyone else performing CROSS) delt with this? Anyone here cover it up with makeup?

Sean..

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Well, because of where all my scars are, I can cover it by wearing a beanie and you'd never know I did anything. Consequently, I haven't worried much about down time. I generally look about normal after two to three weeks.

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Bob, I have no new pics available yet as the camera I use is my girlfriend's and she it out of town for the summer. I probably will have access to the camera again in a few weeks and will post progress pics from my fourth cross then. As of now, the healing is going normally. As of last Friday, it had been five weeks since cross #4. It is difficult to gauge the progress visually as, frankly, there doesn't look like much of a difference is made at all to me when I simply look at myself every day, due to the fact that improvement is so incremental and gradual. Looking at the older pics, however, I can see that there obviously has been improvement. On the temples, which I have documented here, I would estimate 40-50% improvement on almost every scar. Several small ones, though not many, do seem to have disappeared entirely. Unfortunately, due to the sheer number of small scars I have, it is hard to tell without closely analyzing the pics. I would imagine that someone who has not seen me in a year or so would notice much more than I do.

Anyway, I have updated my initial post after revamping my gallery a bit, removing extraneous photos to include only the clear progress from baseline to cross #3. Here is the new first post, with the progress pics and a detailed explanation of the procedure:

Edited and updated on 7/3/06

Okay, I've revamped my gallery and have made progress pics of each temple so you can see side-by-side exactly what kind of effect this treatment has had. I never have managed to get particularly good pictures of my forehead for whatever reason, so I'm just going to ignore that and track the progress of my temple scarring. Here are the new pics:

IPB Image

IPB Image

My exact regimen:

Use a sharpened toothpick, filed to different diameters for different scars sizes, to focally apply TCA to the center of each scar. If the scar is elongated or irregularly shaped, I will apply to multiple points within the scar, taking care not to get any acid outside of the scar edges. This is not always easy, as, although the scars appear to have very definite boundaries because of the tangential lighting I've used to highlight the depth of each, in bathroom lighting they are not so obviously defined. I hold the toothpick in the acid for about one minute prior to beginning and for 10-30 seconds between each scar crossing.

Immediately after I finish crossing every scar, which usually takes anywhere from two to three hours, I apply hyaluronic acid serum to my forehead and temples, followed several minutes afterward by neosporin ointment. In the days following treatment, I continue to apply neosporin ointment three to four times a day for several days until scabs form. Once scabs have formed, I stop using the ointment and begin my regular daily routine of washing and moisturizing twice a day. The moisturizer I use in the morning is ReVive Sensitif, in the evening ReVive Moisturizing Renewal Cream.

[A note about these creams: They are EGF, containing epidermal growth factor, and the MRC also contains glycolic acid. Past members of this board have had success with cross while using EGF creams. This is a very expensive cream and am not endorsing it. I have never crossed without it, so I cannot do a comparison of how a scar heals while using it vs. how a scar heals without using it. I was prepared to spend several thousand dollars on scar revision until I learned of this cheap, do-it-yourself procedure, and figured I did not mind spending several hundred on very good moisturizers that might aid in healing.]

Usually scabs form within two to four days, and fall off within one to two weeks. While scabs are on, and for two weeks or so after they have fallen off, I wear a beanie that completely covers every scar to protect them from the sun. If you cannot do that because your scars are on your cheeks, then I would recommend using a strong sunscreen of at least SPF 45 to protect your healing skin. During the healing phase, between treatments, I wash twice a day and use only the ReVive creams. I do not perform any other spot or full-face peels, nor do I use any CP serums or retinoids, though other members have had success using these products in addition to cross.

I use 100% TCA that I purchased here, directly from the manufacturer Anais Corporation, for 59 USD.

ReVive Moisturizing Renewal Cream can be purchased here for 150 USD. Sensitif is here for 195 USD.

If you want to purchase an EGF cream, but you do not wish to spend this much money, you can scour the internet, but I do not know where to send you. If you ask around here, someone may be able to dig up some old resources. I know there was an EGF cream thread a few years back with quality information, but I cannot seem to find it.

If you are interested in learning more about the cross technique, the abstract for the Korean study is here. I have obtained the full text from EBSCO host via my university, but it is in web archive format. If you can open such a file, PM me your e-mail address and I will gladly send you the file. If you are a university student, chances are you can also obtain the full text. The citation is:

Title: Focal Treatment of Acne Scars With Trichloroacetic Acid: Chemical Reconstruction of Skin Scars Method.

Authors: Lee, Jung Bock

Chung, Woo Gil

Kwahck, Ho

Lee, Kwang Hoon

Source: Dermatologic Surgery; Nov2002, Vol. 28 Issue 11, p1017-1021, 5p

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These are the before/after pics from the Korean study. The lighting is not tangential, but you can clearly see the improvement nonetheless.

IPB Image

This is after three courses of treatment.

IPB Image

This is after six courses of treatment. It does not appear to be the same patient. It does not specify, but if it is, these are definitely different sides of the face at least.

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Femina, one question--

you could get to the point when your scars are gonna get too dispersed because your CROSS' already broke up the remnant tissue the made up the center indent so it's gonna be hard to keep applying the tca into the middle of the scar--

how do you plan to clean up the rest of it? are you gonna keep trying the CROSS? judging by the images above, I don't understand how these people manage to clean up the rest of the skin on those tiny irregular parts. And the sorrounding unscarred skin looks much better because in the BEFORE image it looks a bit stretched out with visible fillaments (notice the stretched skin around the mole). In the AFTER it looks more supple and the stretched look is gone. Was the sorrounding skin also CROSSED?

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Guest yoyoma

Femina,

Is it just me or the picture shows more improvements on your right side more than your left side..did you take this almost at the same angle?

I did 50% Cross before, probably once, still has the bottle pretty full sitting in my bathroom counter.

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Femina, one question--

you could get to the point when your scars are gonna get too dispersed because your CROSS' already broke up the remnant tissue the made up the center indent so it's gonna be hard to keep applying the tca into the middle of the scar-

I haven't really had a problem like that, but I'd imagine I'll just have to use sharper and sharper applicators. I've already used some very thin toothpicks for some extremely small scars I have.

how do you plan to clean up the rest of it? are you gonna keep trying the CROSS? judging by the images above, I don't understand how these people manage to clean up the rest of the skin on those tiny irregular parts. And the sorrounding unscarred skin looks much better because in the BEFORE image it looks a bit stretched out with visible fillaments (notice the stretched skin around the mole). In the AFTER it looks more supple and the stretched look is gone. Was the sorrounding skin also CROSSED?

I will do at least two more courses, but none for the remainder of this summer (I was five weeks after treatment course #4 last Friday). Six was the number they performed in the Korean study, but it didn't say you had to stop there, so as long as it doesn't appear that I'm acquiring any lasting hyperpigmentation and the improvement is not where I'd like it to be, I'd imagine I'll continue with more courses. I'll at least cross some of the scars after my sixth course, because I haven't crossed every set of scars the same number of times. There are several that I've only crossed three times thus far and a few that I've only crossed twice. Since the acid seemed to penetrate a little deeper and the redness more noticeable, I figured I'd give these ones more time to heal between courses.

With the mole, are you asking about my skin or the patient in the pics from the study?

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I will do at least two more courses, but none for the remainder of this summer (I was five weeks after treatment course #4 last Friday). Six was the number they performed in the Korean study, but it didn't say you had to stop there, so as long as it doesn't appear that I'm acquiring any lasting hyperpigmentation and the improvement is not where I'd like it to be, I'd imagine I'll continue with more courses. I'll at least cross some of the scars after my sixth course, because I haven't crossed every set of scars the same number of times. There are several that I've only crossed three times thus far and a few that I've only crossed twice. Since the acid seemed to penetrate a little deeper and the redness more noticeable, I figured I'd give these ones more time to heal between courses.

With the mole, are you asking about my skin or the patient in the pics from the study?

sorry, second part of my question I was talking 'bout the pic in the study...I"m wondering whether the sorrounding skin has been crossed also...it looks really good in the after...

Femina--you should use less acid if it's beginning to penetrate deeper, or dilute it more...I was going to get on the CROSS, but needling is doing the job just fine...only difference is that mines are getting discolored (brownish, dark) but they are filling in anyways.

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thanks for the update femina, glad to hear things are progessing along for you. i'm still waiting to do my second cross. going to wait a little while longer. haven't seen much improvement so far.

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Hey Femina

Great improvement and a courageous men. Have you gotten any hypopigmentation? i seen couple of pictures from other patients and they do show a slight white dots....

I have brown complexion and so i am very cautious to proceed though i would love to get rid of these damn scars.

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I've done three or so successful crosses with 100%. The first time, the scar looked worse for a while and then better after the redness fades. It seems that is how it works for me, each time I do it, it looks a bit worse than before at first, then slowly improves to a state a bit better than before. So after three crosses, I am seeing what appears to be improvements on some very old scars. I have a kind of big boxcar on the apple of my cheek which is bad and also some smaller very shallow ones. I am assuming that each time it gets a bit better for me but I didn't see a vast difference after the first. I think it is good to wait at least one month or two really since the skin is still recovering even after one month. I am not sure I will get results like the Korean study but I HOPE!! It is not a really quick, vanish scars in two weeks in my experience but possibly more like after several crosses, diminish the appearance of scars. It really seems like the big scar has shrunk but by all means is still there. I am not a big scabber with cross. I get clearer scabs which are hard to see really untill they finally flake off revealing the red or pinkness inside the scar. This is when the scar in my case starts to recover or regenerate and slightly shrink. It has been exactly one month since the last cross and I notice the skin is still slightly irritated by salycylic and such. I am wondering femina, if you attribute much of your success so far to the egf creams you apply afterwards? It may be worth investing in it, if it really helps the skin recover or regenerate better.

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i'm really happy for you i really hope it works out for you in the end i can notice an improvement certainly on one side of your face, good luck my friend stay resiliant

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So did you take pics of last 2 days? I'd love to see, and I'm happy it's working for you! Frankly, I'm scared to death to do it to myself .

So how many times have you done each scar? I'm sorry if you've already answered this.

BTW: you or others can get EGF at www.skinactives.com

cheaply. It's mix your own and you can just add it to a small amount of moisturizer.

Please note that the post you quoted is from two years ago. I simply bumped this for people to read through as it is extremely informative. The original poster has not visited the site in at least the last year, don't expect answers from him.

Read the ENTIRE thread to answer your question.

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Bump, does the OP still post here? I was hoping he'd tell us his thoughts on TCA Cross overall and how it affected him.

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Original poster's profile:

Joined: 6-February 06

Profile Views: 1,002*

Last Seen: 1st June 2007 06:38 PM

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