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Esjay

Esthetician in Training

Hey, I came here a long time ago for suggestions on treating my mild acne. I got tons of suggestions and did everything I learned from this site.

Now I am attending college classes to be trained as an Esthetician. In 6 weeks I have learned more about skin than I ever thought possible. I have books, teachers, a products galore to learn from. Sadly I STILL am struggling with open and closed comedones as well as the occasional pustule. My skin goes up and down- get's a ton better, gets a ton worse. I have even used Proactive which helps minimally the first couple weeks of use.

I am learning so much about skin now- almost everything that was told to me by others trying to "help" or by friends or even family has been way off base. The more you understand about skin- the easier it is to figure out what is happening and how to cure it.

So I've returned to this site welcoming any questions!!!! Here are some pointers about skin care:

Don't use very hot water- it is damaging to the skin

Do not use scrubs! They should only be used on hands, feet, elbows, knees, etc!

Every morning evening you should use a cleanser, followed by toner, and then a care cream.

Skin has a natural acid mantle with a Ph of 4.5 to 6.2. After cleansing, Ph needs to be brought back into a natural state- this is why you MUST be sure to use a toner and care cream after you wash your face!

If you have hair that is constantly in your face- whatever is on your hair will be in your face!!!! My forehead was perfect until I got bangs, now I have a lot of closed comedones on a regular basis, but not bad enough to make me grow them out again.

Consider going to see an esthetician. A series of exfolliation treatments and facials could drastically improve your skin. Remember to do EVERYTHING your Esthetician tells you to!

Expensive does not always mean better! It's all about ingredients! I have a book that is an ingredient dictionary, so I've found it VERY valuable to look up the ingredients of products I use to see if they are really effective for my skin type!!!! Only 1/2 of a product line may actually work!!!

I'm very busy with school, but glad to help answer ANY questions, look up ingredients, talk to my teachers or look up information in any of my textbooks.

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If you have time I would be interested to know if your books say citric acid (other than being a pH adjuster) is just a food preservative, or can it also be a cosmetic preservative? I am reading a lot of conflicting information about this. Thanks!

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Hey, I came here a long time ago for suggestions on treating my mild acne. I got tons of suggestions and did everything I learned from this site.

Now I am attending college classes to be trained as an Esthetician. In 6 weeks I have learned more about skin than I ever thought possible. I have books, teachers, a products galore to learn from. Sadly I STILL am struggling with open and closed comedones as well as the occasional pustule. My skin goes up and down- get's a ton better, gets a ton worse. I have even used Proactive which helps minimally the first couple weeks of use.

I am learning so much about skin now- almost everything that was told to me by others trying to "help" or by friends or even family has been way off base. The more you understand about skin- the easier it is to figure out what is happening and how to cure it.

So I've returned to this site welcoming any questions!!!! Here are some pointers about skin care:

Don't use very hot water- it is damaging to the skin

Do not use scrubs! They should only be used on hands, feet, elbows, knees, etc!

Every morning evening you should use a cleanser, followed by toner, and then a care cream.

Skin has a natural acid mantle with a Ph of 4.5 to 6.2. After cleansing, Ph needs to be brought back into a natural state- this is why you MUST be sure to use a toner and care cream after you wash your face!

If you have hair that is constantly in your face- whatever is on your hair will be in your face!!!! My forehead was perfect until I got bangs, now I have a lot of closed comedones on a regular basis, but not bad enough to make me grow them out again.

Consider going to see an esthetician. A series of exfolliation treatments and facials could drastically improve your skin. Remember to do EVERYTHING your Esthetician tells you to!

Expensive does not always mean better! It's all about ingredients! I have a book that is an ingredient dictionary, so I've found it VERY valuable to look up the ingredients of products I use to see if they are really effective for my skin type!!!! Only 1/2 of a product line may actually work!!!

I'm very busy with school, but glad to help answer ANY questions, look up ingredients, talk to my teachers or look up information in any of my textbooks.

How much would a series of exfoliation treatments and facials typically cost? Also, what's the best way to exfoliate at home? And could you recommend a care cream?

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Citric Acid:

I believe you may be referring to Alpha Hydroxy or "Fruit Acids"

AHA's are used in cosmetic products as moisturizers, emollients, and exfoliants. They are also employed to treat such conditions as photodamage and hyperpigmentation, and, at the medical level, eczema and ichthyosis. Their activity and associated benefits are dependent on the type of AHA used, the concentration employed, and the pH of the formula. The benefits attibuted to these active substances include a reduction of fine lines and superficial wrinkles, a lightening of surface pigmentation, and a softer, suppler skin with imporved hydration. These noted benefits are a result of AHA activity to normalize the stratum corneum by reducing it's thickness through exfoliation and the creation of a more compact structure; increased skin hydration due to the natural moisturizing properties of AHAsltheir ability to avtivate hyaluronic acid which, in turn, will retain a greater amount of moisture in the skinl and an increase in dermal thickness due to increased...

I can get you more information if this seems to help at all.

Care cream/ cost of facial services

You'd have to check with your local spa/salon to determine the pricing. It might be a good idea to see if there's a highranking esthetician/cosmetology school around you. They will offer services at VERY reduced prices.

As for a care cream, basically that means a moisturizer fit for your skin type. Based upon pore size and thickness skin is usually either Dry, Sensative, Combination, or Oily. I highly reccommend Pevonia products- they have several lines for each skin type, but it's more pricey than wal*mart.

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Guest Grow_To_Overthrow

What can you tell me about Gram-Nagative Folliculitis? Also, what are your views on Anti-biotic use for treating Acne.

I've used Pevonia products and wouldn't suggest them for people with Acne. Although they have specialised products for Acne, they still put fragrance in them. It's a chic product that strays from the 'real' purpose of skin care.

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What can you tell me about Gram-Nagative Folliculitis? Also, what are your views on Anti-biotic use for treating Acne.

I've used Pevonia products and wouldn't suggest them for people with Acne. Although they have specialised products for Acne, they still put fragrance in them. It's a chic product that strays from the 'real' purpose of skin care.

You are wrong, Pevonia does NOT put fragrance in their products. That is why I highly recommend them. (And so does my teacher who was a dermatologist for many years in Russia, to put a different spin on it) They do have a natural scent, because of the ingredients in them, but let me clarify there are NO added fragrances!!! The fragrances that do exist have been made allergy-less. I am attending a school that is rated one of the 5 best in the united states, and they wouldn't choose pevonia as one of their main products if it was a "chic product that strays from the 'real' purpose of skin care". I just started using it, and love it so far. Not all products work for everyone, but just because something didn't work wonders for one person means it won't on the next. For instance proactive works wonders for some people, and others it does nothing. It's one product that works with some people (usually males with thick, oily skin and severe acne). I'm sorry you disliked Pevonia- I hope you find a product that works well with your skin type

Antibiotics unfortunantly kill ALL bacteria in the body (even the good bacteria). It is very easy to develope a resistance to them- they should only be used as a last resolve. They may be used to help start the clearing of acne so that other procedures may be used, but they should not be used as a total treatment.

Folliculitis... boy did we talk about that A TON in class. Tips: exfoliate and use a single blade razor. Unfortunantly curly hair is extremely prone to this condition. There is a new product out there to prevent "ingrown hairs" apparently it is very useful.

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Guest Tenshi

u said don't use scrubs..but have a series of exfoliation treatments done.. are u referring to BHA and AHA's or peels? because i agree with what u said. gentle is the key, exfoliation and sunscreen too. standing underneath the shower head full blast/hot water was not a good idea in my earlier years..

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Guest Grow_To_Overthrow

You are wrong, Pevonia does NOT put fragrance in their products.....The fragrances that do exist have been made allergy-less.

:doh:

I just started using it, and love it so far. Not all products work for everyone, but just because something didn't work wonders for one person means it won't on the next.

*scratches head* So you're saying that if a product doesn't work on one person, it won't work on the next either?!

Folliculitis... boy did we talk about that A TON in class. Tips: exfoliate and use a single blade razor. Unfortunantly curly hair is extremely prone to this condition. There is a new product out there to prevent "ingrown hairs" apparently it is very useful.

Not Folliculitis, Gram-Negative Folliculitis.

Anyway, i'm heading out for the day. Thanks for the infomation. Good luck with the Pevonia stuff. What products are you using by the way? One thing i will give tabs to is the Enzyme peel, that's a great product.

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You are wrong, Pevonia does NOT put fragrance in their products.....The fragrances that do exist have been made allergy-less.

:doh:

There is a difference between ADDED fragrances (like in Aveda products) and fragrances that exist from the ingredients. Lemon grass is one such ingredient that has the scent of, well, lemon. This is not an added fragrance. Pevonia does not have a "signature scent" like Aveda, because they do not ADD fragrance to their products.

I just started using it, and love it so far. Not all products work for everyone, but just because something didn't work wonders for one person means it won't on the next.

*scratches head* So you're saying that if a product doesn't work on one person, it won't work on the next either?!

Forgive me. One products may work wonders on someone, and do nothing for the next. I apologize for getting tongue tied!

Folliculitis... boy did we talk about that A TON in class. Tips: exfoliate and use a single blade razor. Unfortunantly curly hair is extremely prone to this condition. There is a new product out there to prevent "ingrown hairs" apparently it is very useful.

Not Folliculitis, Gram-Negative Folliculitis.

Again my apologies- "Gram Negative" is a familiar term, however, gram negative folliculitis is not ringing a bell at the moment. I'll try to get more information.

Anyway, i'm heading out for the day. Thanks for the infomation. Good luck with the Pevonia stuff. What products are you using by the way? One thing i will give tabs to is the Enzyme peel, that's a great product.

Since I have large pores and thick skin, I am using the oily skin care line. Have not tried the Enzyme peel yet.

u said don't use scrubs..but have a series of exfoliation treatments done.. are u referring to BHA and AHA's or peels? because i agree with what u said. gentle is the key, exfoliation and sunscreen too. standing underneath the shower head full blast/hot water was not a good idea in my earlier years..

There are several forms of exfoliation- but scrubs are only meant for rough skin. An exfoliater will not be so rough on the skin (Such as "Clean and Clear" blackhead clearing scrub- used on my face for a year only to learn I should be using it on my feet and elbows!!!!) on top of that an exfoliant should only be used 2-3 times per week (I used a mask before switching to a pevonia product). I used that blackhead clearning scrub day and night and wondered why my skin wouldn't clear and got so dried out sometimes! Yikes!!! I recommend staying away from anything that has large granuales and is clearly labeled as a "scrub".

Good point with the sunscreen- ALWAYS USE SUNSCREEN Titanium dioxide is the best- it has healing properties in it (My foudation has this ingredient, and I always thought I was imagining that it could be HELPING my zits after relatives drilled into my head how awful make up is for your skin (I obviously rebelled and the more they ragged on me the more I wanted to keep wearing makeup). I asked my mom today where she learned that "Makeup is horrible for your skin" and she said her dermatologist told her- in the 1970's!!!! Yikes. Skin care has come a LONG way since then!!!!)

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Guest Tenshi

There are several forms of exfoliation- but scrubs are only meant for rough skin. An exfoliater will not be so rough on the skin (Such as "Clean and Clear" blackhead clearing scrub- used on my face for a year only to learn I should be using it on my feet and elbows!!!!) on top of that an exfoliant should only be used 2-3 times per week (I used a mask before switching to a pevonia product). I used that blackhead clearning scrub day and night and wondered why my skin wouldn't clear and got so dried out sometimes! Yikes!!! I recommend staying away from anything that has large granuales and is clearly labeled as a "scrub".

Good point with the sunscreen- ALWAYS USE SUNSCREEN Titanium dioxide is the best- it has healing properties in it (My foudation has this ingredient, and I always thought I was imagining that it could be HELPING my zits after relatives drilled into my head how awful make up is for your skin (I obviously rebelled and the more they ragged on me the more I wanted to keep wearing makeup). I asked my mom today where she learned that "Makeup is horrible for your skin" and she said her dermatologist told her- in the 1970's!!!! Yikes. Skin care has come a LONG way since then!!!!

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There are several forms of exfoliation- but scrubs are only meant for rough skin. An exfoliater will not be so rough on the skin (Such as "Clean and Clear" blackhead clearing scrub- used on my face for a year only to learn I should be using it on my feet and elbows!!!!) on top of that an exfoliant should only be used 2-3 times per week (I used a mask before switching to a pevonia product). I used that blackhead clearning scrub day and night and wondered why my skin wouldn't clear and got so dried out sometimes! Yikes!!! I recommend staying away from anything that has large granuales and is clearly labeled as a "scrub".

Good point with the sunscreen- ALWAYS USE SUNSCREEN Titanium dioxide is the best- it has healing properties in it (My foudation has this ingredient, and I always thought I was imagining that it could be HELPING my zits after relatives drilled into my head how awful make up is for your skin (I obviously rebelled and the more they ragged on me the more I wanted to keep wearing makeup). I asked my mom today where she learned that "Makeup is horrible for your skin" and she said her dermatologist told her- in the 1970's!!!! Yikes. Skin care has come a LONG way since then!!!!

Thanks for that tip.."titanium dioxide"..i didn't know that. The best exfoliators I have used would be Dermalogica Microfoliant and Clarins Gentle Facial Peeling which is more of a clay that balls up on your skin when massaging with the palms of your hands..that stuff is great. The absolute worst is St Ives Apricot Scrub..!! that stuff ruined my skin for a period of time.. not to sound like a snob, but the upmarket stuff always seems better..lol i also use that BHA 2% mask by sage...and instead of aggravating my skin, i've done the peel off mask trick.. thanks again for ur advice..:)

Yeah, the St. Ives scrub is REALLY, well, evil!!! Sounds like you've found some good stuff! Upmarket stuff DOES seem better- but don't let yourself be fooled! It's all about ingredients. Some of the most expensive (Este Lauder etc) are worthless!!! And cost over $100 for a single product!!! The best thing you can do when picking out a product is to learn what ingredients ARE and what they do. St. Ives tends to throw in some some stuff that's not the best- or just a bunch of functional ingredients- just "stuff" that spreads around with nothing in it that really does anything!!! I've started throwing away some of my walmart products which I thought were good, but once I took a glance at ingredients they hit the bottom of the waste basket before I got to the 4th ingredient!!! (The first 1-4 are most important).

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Is there any way to make blackheads go away... forever? ;_;

Blackheads are "open comedones". this means the pore is only partially blocked with sebum and dead skin cells. The fault of these is that the skin is not sluffing off dead skin cells, too much sebum is being produced OR the sebum that is being produced is too sticky in texture to get out of the pore. Black heads may be safely extracted- only if done properly!!! Consider seeing an esthetician for help. The only way I have found to make my blackheads go away was extraction- but if not done properly you will end up giving yourself a nice big zit. If you are brave enough, try washing your face with baking soda (raises alkaline level, opens pores)- then with GAUZE COVERED FINGERS gentle press down and in (in the direction of the pore) AFTER extraction, dampen a Q-tip with %3 peroxide and spread over skin (to return skin to it's PH and close pores). You are welcome to try this at your own risk, but it would be much safer to go and see an skin care specialist.

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speaking of baking soda...

what do you think of the whole, backing soda+apple cider vinegar+egg white mask thing? a member got recommended that by her aesthetician, and some people really like it.

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this is great. wow i never thought anything about that st. ives scrub. im use to using it and then rinsing it off from my shower head in hot water. and then when i look in the mirror no wonder i look blood red all the time and my skin looks very uneven. so instead of using the scrub i bought that murad clarifying cleanser and it should be coming soon. i loved that stuff when i had it. but its a little too expensive though but its worth it. do you mind tkaing a look at the ingredients and telling me what you t hink?

also, i have this huge zit. when i say huge i mean cyst thats almost in inch on my lower right corner of my cheek. and i have a feeling it formed due to an ingrown hair after shaving. i just have a feeling this monster will leave a hole in my skin even if i mess with it or just leave it alone. my objective is to get rid of it without leving a hole and to minimize any dark spot ot may leave. so right now what im doiing is, applying some saliylic acid from the scrub just dabing it on the lesion not scrubbing. and then putting some of that clearasil cleanser and then rinsing . and then afterwards as a moisturizer appliing heavy loads of aloe vera gel on it. and then after a few minutes applying 10% benzoyl peroxide only to the spot. after 3 days its still ugly as ever. i also take vitmains zinc, c, and chromium and flaxseed oil as well. and ice the lesion in the night. i dont know what else i could do. i also ordered some retanin A over the internet in hope it helps it heal and not scar? do you think what im doing is ok?

also, sorry for sucha long post. i did some glycolic 70% peels awhile ago maybe 3months ago and applied it thickly and not evenly, my mistake, i was frushtrated at the time. wel when it peeled it left me with these dark patches that are blotchy brown/ red. and red altogether. will the retanin a help fade the redness and dark pathces? thank you.

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Ok, I pm'd you a couple of days ago about a question I have. If I eat nuts, peanut butter, pork products, like ham, sausage and now bacon, I break out on my neck and only there. I get about 7 to 9 Zits on my neck and they hurt and are red. I try to stay away from all of this stuff but sometimes things get past me and I just hate it! I don't break out on my face just on my neck and on both sides. Could this be an allergy to these foods or just my system? Thanks

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Every morning evening you should use a cleanser, followed by toner, and then a care cream.

Esjay, do you think it's alright to use an AHA toner on a daily basis?

edit: Also, I am about to purchase Green Cream, a retinol treatment, and this is known to increase the skin's sensitivity to the sun. Soo..my question is, how long does the skin need to "recover" from such a treatment ('til it won't be so sun-sensitive)? .. Could I apply it at night and wake up the next day fine?

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Ok I thought I posted on here yesterday, but somehow my post ended up in a different place. So here goes again:

I've been super busy with school, so I apologize for not being here to answer questions as often as I wanted. I'll get out my textbooks to look up some of the things mentioned here and try to get a post together later today.

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If you are brave enough, try washing your face with baking soda (raises alkaline level, opens pores)- then with GAUZE COVERED FINGERS gentle press down and in (in the direction of the pore) AFTER extraction, dampen a Q-tip with %3 peroxide and spread over skin (to return skin to it's PH and close pores). You are welcome to try this at your own risk, but it would be much safer to go and see an skin care specialist.

Why is it that estheticians believe that pores open and close??? I never got that. Pores have no mechanism to open or close in response to temperature, pH, humidity or anything. The only think that can "open" pores is the distention of the follicular walls by a build up cellular debris and overactivity of the sebaceous glands....... pores don't open and close

And baking soda is a horrible thing to put on your skin.....mix it with a little water, and you have a solution with a pH of about 10 (pretty alkaline), which is way too high for human skin which has a pH of about 5 (4.2-5.6).....at high pH the epidermal lipids that make up skin's barrier function become rigid which causes swelling of the stratum corneum, and increases transepidermal water loss........also at high pH the fatty acids in the epidermal lipids loose their carboxyl hydrogen ions, leaving behind a O- on the end of the fatty acid which can easily be combined with a metal ion to form a soap (which makes them super easy to remove)....

I don't advise putting baking soda on your skin ever....

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If you are brave enough, try washing your face with baking soda (raises alkaline level, opens pores)- then with GAUZE COVERED FINGERS gentle press down and in (in the direction of the pore) AFTER extraction, dampen a Q-tip with %3 peroxide and spread over skin (to return skin to it's PH and close pores). You are welcome to try this at your own risk, but it would be much safer to go and see an skin care specialist.

Why is it that estheticians believe that pores open and close??? I never got that. Pores have no mechanism to open or close in response to temperature, pH, humidity or anything. The only think that can "open" pores is the distention of the follicular walls by a build up cellular debris and overactivity of the sebaceous glands....... pores don't open and close

And baking soda is a horrible thing to put on your skin.....mix it with a little water, and you have a solution with a pH of about 10 (pretty alkaline), which is way too high for human skin which has a pH of about 5 (4.2-5.6).....at high pH the epidermal lipids that make up skin's barrier function become rigid which causes swelling of the stratum corneum, and increases transepidermal water loss........also at high pH the fatty acids in the epidermal lipids loose their carboxyl hydrogen ions, leaving behind a O- on the end of the fatty acid which can easily be combined with a metal ion to form a soap (which makes them super easy to remove)....

I don't advise outting baking soda on your skin ever....

yeh me either i know that for a fact not because of all that chemcial stucture stuff but from experience. last tiem i put baking soda on my skin it turned all red and splotchy and looked like i picked the hell out of it. since then i havent used it. i think it takes a chemist better than anything to evaluate products etc.. so lb girl since esjay hasnt responded in awhile please look at the murad clarifying clenser ingredients for me and tell me if its ok??

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If you are brave enough, try washing your face with baking soda (raises alkaline level, opens pores)- then with GAUZE COVERED FINGERS gentle press down and in (in the direction of the pore) AFTER extraction, dampen a Q-tip with %3 peroxide and spread over skin (to return skin to it's PH and close pores). You are welcome to try this at your own risk, but it would be much safer to go and see an skin care specialist.

Why is it that estheticians believe that pores open and close??? I never got that. Pores have no mechanism to open or close in response to temperature, pH, humidity or anything. The only think that can "open" pores is the distention of the follicular walls by a build up cellular debris and overactivity of the sebaceous glands....... pores don't open and close

And baking soda is a horrible thing to put on your skin.....mix it with a little water, and you have a solution with a pH of about 10 (pretty alkaline), which is way too high for human skin which has a pH of about 5 (4.2-5.6).....at high pH the epidermal lipids that make up skin's barrier function become rigid which causes swelling of the stratum corneum, and increases transepidermal water loss........also at high pH the fatty acids in the epidermal lipids loose their carboxyl hydrogen ions, leaving behind a O- on the end of the fatty acid which can easily be combined with a metal ion to form a soap (which makes them super easy to remove)....

I don't advise outting baking soda on your skin ever....

yeh me either i know that for a fact not because of all that chemcial stucture stuff but from experience. last tiem i put baking soda on my skin it turned all red and splotchy and looked like i picked the hell out of it. since then i havent used it. i think it takes a chemist better than anything to evaluate products etc.. so lb girl since esjay hasnt responded in awhile please look at the murad clarifying clenser ingredients for me and tell me if its ok??

Ingredients:

Salicylic Acid (1.5%)

Water (Aqua), Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate, Methyl Gluceth-20, PPG-26-Buteth-26, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Butylene Glycol, Cimicifuga Racemosa Root Extract, Camellia Oleifera Leaf Extract, Triclosan, Menthol, Citrus Aurantium Amara (Bitter Orange) Oil, Cymbopogon Nardus (Citronella) Oil, Citrus Medica Limonum (Lemon) Peel Oil, Citrus Aurantifolia (Lime) Oil, Lavandula Hybrida Oil, Citrus Tangerina (Tangerine) Oil, Prunus Armeniaca (Apricot) Kernel Oil, Tetrasodium EDTA, Methylparaben

Okay if your looking for an oil free product....this is not one. But not all oils are bad, especially when coupled with surfactants. Here they are part of a marketing story and are probably in there at low levels anyway...

Cocamidopropyl Betaine and Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate are "mild" surfactants. Methyl Gluceth-20 is a methyl glucose ester, that acts as a humectant (helps moisturize), and helps with foming in surfactant systems. Butylene Glycol is also a humectant. PPG-26-Buteth-26, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil are most likely solubilizers (surfactants) for the oils (to make a clear product that contains both oil and water you need a good amount of solubilizers). It's most likely a blend called Solubilisant LRI from a company called LCW. I'm not going to go over all the extracts and oils, because in my opinion they do nothing.....Extracts used in cosmetics and personal care products usually below the 1% mark on the ingredient label, and are only there for the "story". Most of out extracts are like 99% Butylene Glycol, or cyclomethicone and 1% active anyway.....so there's probably like 0.001% of the extract actually in the formula....The oils are probably in there at about 0.1% each (just for the story).....

1.5% salicylic acid is okay I guess, I haven't had much luck with SA, but others have....

Menthol isn't a great idea....cooling yes....but it can be irritating as hell.....especially to sensitive skin.....

I do have an issue with Triclosan....It's a pretty effective antimicrobial, and should help to reduce bacterial counts. Although it's not claimed as a drug here, so it might not be effective at a level under what the FDA considered a drug (there are clinical tests done to show the level at which the ingredient is effective, anything below that does not reqiure drug labeling, and probably isn't very effective).....

I used this cleanser before, and had a bad reaction to it. My eyes almost swelled shut and my lips swelled up (I didn't even put it near my eyes or lips, it was just from rinsing). Eventually my lips got all these little sores on them and the skin just peeled off.....I have a sensitivity to triclosan and should have known better......It was either the triclosan or one of those oils/extracts.....

In my opinion it's not worth the 30$ or whatever it costs, but I'm biased because I had a bad reaction to it....As far as cleansing, foaming, ect, it was decent....If you can afford it and are using it and having sucess....stick with it.....

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If you are brave enough, try washing your face with baking soda (raises alkaline level, opens pores)- then with GAUZE COVERED FINGERS gentle press down and in (in the direction of the pore) AFTER extraction, dampen a Q-tip with %3 peroxide and spread over skin (to return skin to it's PH and close pores). You are welcome to try this at your own risk, but it would be much safer to go and see an skin care specialist.

Why is it that estheticians believe that pores open and close??? I never got that. Pores have no mechanism to open or close in response to temperature, pH, humidity or anything. The only think that can "open" pores is the distention of the follicular walls by a build up cellular debris and overactivity of the sebaceous glands....... pores don't open and close

And baking soda is a horrible thing to put on your skin.....mix it with a little water, and you have a solution with a pH of about 10 (pretty alkaline), which is way too high for human skin which has a pH of about 5 (4.2-5.6).....at high pH the epidermal lipids that make up skin's barrier function become rigid which causes swelling of the stratum corneum, and increases transepidermal water loss........also at high pH the fatty acids in the epidermal lipids loose their carboxyl hydrogen ions, leaving behind a O- on the end of the fatty acid which can easily be combined with a metal ion to form a soap (which makes them super easy to remove)....

I don't advise outting baking soda on your skin ever....

yeh me either i know that for a fact not because of all that chemcial stucture stuff but from experience. last tiem i put baking soda on my skin it turned all red and splotchy and looked like i picked the hell out of it. since then i havent used it. i think it takes a chemist better than anything to evaluate products etc.. so lb girl since esjay hasnt responded in awhile please look at the murad clarifying clenser ingredients for me and tell me if its ok??

Ingredients:

Salicylic Acid (1.5%)

Water (Aqua), Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate, Methyl Gluceth-20, PPG-26-Buteth-26, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Butylene Glycol, Cimicifuga Racemosa Root Extract, Camellia Oleifera Leaf Extract, Triclosan, Menthol, Citrus Aurantium Amara (Bitter Orange) Oil, Cymbopogon Nardus (Citronella) Oil, Citrus Medica Limonum (Lemon) Peel Oil, Citrus Aurantifolia (Lime) Oil, Lavandula Hybrida Oil, Citrus Tangerina (Tangerine) Oil, Prunus Armeniaca (Apricot) Kernel Oil, Tetrasodium EDTA, Methylparaben

Okay if your looking for an oil free product....this is not one. But not all oils are bad, especially when coupled with surfactants. Here they are part of a marketing story and are probably in there at low levels anyway...

Cocamidopropyl Betaine and Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate are "mild" surfactants. Methyl Gluceth-20 is a methyl glucose ester, that acts as a humectant (helps moisturize), and helps with foming in surfactant systems. Butylene Glycol is also a humectant. PPG-26-Buteth-26, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil are most likely solubilizers (surfactants) for the oils (to make a clear product that contains both oil and water you need a good amount of solubilizers). It's most likely a blend called Solubilisant LRI from a company called LCW. I'm not going to go over all the extracts and oils, because in my opinion they do nothing.....Extracts used in cosmetics and personal care products usually below the 1% mark on the ingredient label, and are only there for the "story". Most of out extracts are like 99% Butylene Glycol, or cyclomethicone and 1% active anyway.....so there's probably like 0.001% of the extract actually in the formula....The oils are probably in there at about 0.1% each (just for the story).....

1.5% salicylic acid is okay I guess, I haven't had much luck with SA, but others have....

Menthol isn't a great idea....cooling yes....but it can be irritating as hell.....especially to sensitive skin.....

I do have an issue with Triclosan....It's a pretty effective antimicrobial, and should help to reduce bacterial counts. Although it's not claimed as a drug here, so it might not be effective at a level under what the FDA considered a drug (there are clinical tests done to show the level at which the ingredient is effective, anything below that does not reqiure drug labeling, and probably isn't very effective).....

I used this cleanser before, and had a bad reaction to it. My eyes almost swelled shut and my lips swelled up (I didn't even put it near my eyes or lips, it was just from rinsing). Eventually my lips got all these little sores on them and the skin just peeled off.....I have a sensitivity to triclosan and should have known better......It was either the triclosan or one of those oils/extracts.....

In my opinion it's not worth the 30$ or whatever it costs, but I'm biased because I had a bad reaction to it....As far as cleansing, foaming, ect, it was decent....If you can afford it and are using it and having sucess....stick with it.....

labgirl thanks so much i appreicate that. ims orry i idnt respnd sooner. i forgot about it. yeh i cant afford it but honestly theres not alot of cleansers that are good. i usually use a medicated st. ives scrub but that gets very irritating after awhile. so this is the best thing next to it. something about cetaphil i dont like. thats why i stick with this one better. only bad thing is, its way drying which i think is ocmbination of retin-a. but all around it cleans good and makes skin texture look nice. i will spend alot of money on my skin. i dont buy me notthing else sinc ei dont have that much most days. but when i do its mainly for my skin. it sucks but you do what you gotta do. do you know any good cleansers that come close to this one and is much cheaper? so your saying all those extracts are just marketing ploys> that sucks. but have any recomendations?? im loving that sexy photo of you at your job. independent women like yourself turn alot of guys on. includinf myself. thats just sexy. im pretty sure you had a bad reaction because oh\f that menthol. that stuff is just strong . when i first use the cleanser when i first got it recently it like drowned my\e and that vapor from the menthol made me have to close my eyes because it was way to strong. but that stuff is a pretty powerful cleanser i must say.

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Why is it that estheticians believe that pores open and close??? I never got that. Pores have no mechanism to open or close in response to temperature, pH, humidity or anything. The only think that can "open" pores is the distention of the follicular walls by a build up cellular debris and overactivity of the sebaceous glands....... pores don't open and close

And baking soda is a horrible thing to put on your skin.....mix it with a little water, and you have a solution with a pH of about 10 (pretty alkaline), which is way too high for human skin which has a pH of about 5 (4.2-5.6).....at high pH the epidermal lipids that make up skin's barrier function become rigid which causes swelling of the stratum corneum, and increases transepidermal water loss........also at high pH the fatty acids in the epidermal lipids loose their carboxyl hydrogen ions, leaving behind a O- on the end of the fatty acid which can easily be combined with a metal ion to form a soap (which makes them super easy to remove)....

I don't advise putting baking soda on your skin ever....

oh, labgirl, WHY DID I JUST READ UR POST TODAY!!!!!!!! :cry::cry::cry:

i heard so many good reviews on baking soda as a scrub and decided to try it. omg, i put on jojoba oil right afterwards but my skin still dried up like a desert!!! i had super flaky and dry skin all over for a week no matter how much moisturizer i put on. then i read on the packaging that baking soda can be used to clean up kitchen and bathroom stains, and i was like: omyf***ingod, and i'm using this on my FACE? :wall::wall::wall:

what a nightmare!

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