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The first direction in her how to is how much epsom salts to use.

I have a Md and Mba and Nsa and cSi And foS In supergeniosity! So Im am teh Rightuhr!

Hmmm... http://www.sensiblehealth.com/search.php?k...s&Submit=Submit

Both sites also claim that gallstones are formed in the liver instead of in the gallbladder. Which is entirely false. So let's see... My arguement is supported by...

Chemistry, Biology, Medicine, All documented cases ever.

Your arguement is supported by a bunch of underachievers chugging olive oil and looking at their feces and the websites of people who are chemists for "a large hospital".

Behold my dance of mockitude. It is a joyous dance, but also tragic.

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The first direction in her how to is how much epsom salts to use.

I have a Md and Mba and Nsa and cSi And foS In supergeniosity! So Im am teh Rightuhr!

Hmmm... http://www.sensiblehealth.com/search.php?k...s&Submit=Submit

Both sites also claim that gallstones are formed in the liver instead of in the gallbladder. Which is entirely false. So let's see... My arguement is supported by...

Chemistry, Biology, Medicine, All documented cases ever.

Your arguement is supported by a bunch of underachievers chugging olive oil and looking at their feces and the websites of people who are chemists for "a large hospital".

Behold my dance of mockitude. It is a joyous dance, but also tragic.

Wow, I mostly just feel sorry for you.

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Yes, it's a sad existance watching very stupid people listen to morons charging $300 for thirty cents worth of herbal suppliments that will have no effect. But it's tempered by the hilarity of watching even dumber people display a laughable failure to grasp even the most basic principles of human anatomy in their attempts to defend the people who are lying to them and ripping them off. Yep, let's get our medical advice from the internet. The single greatest concentration of conmen, idiots, and falsified credentials. By the way, did I tell you I'm a doctor at a really big hospital. I'm the top doctor too. I have magic powers.

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I've learned a lot from the two MDs I've been to. One is board certified in Family Mediciine and Homeopathy. They know I liver flush, and they've done them too. I've seen drastic improvment in my digestion and acne ever since I started, and results don't lie. Read all the testimonials about liver flushing curing specific ailments on CureZone ( http://curezone.com/forums/fd50.asp?f=447&c=4 ).

So, I don't know why you are so against this -- you're just cutting yourself short. Try and be a little more open minded.

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I'm not against it. But I know exactly what happens and how it works. I know for an absolute fact that it is not physically possible that this is flushing the liver or gallbladder in any way. I know that the only education you'd need to recognize this is a single year of chemistry, biology or nutrition. Any results are psychosomatic. In other words, it's the sugar-pill effect. There's a difference between being open-minded and being a gullible idiot. When there is incontrivertable proof against something yet you still believe it then you are a gullible idiot.

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I'm not against it. But I know exactly what happens and how it works. I know for an absolute fact that it is not physically possible that this is flushing the liver or gallbladder in any way. I know that the only education you'd need to recognize this is a single year of chemistry, biology or nutrition. Any results are psychosomatic. In other words, it's the sugar-pill effect. There's a difference between being open-minded and being a gullible idiot. When there is incontrivertable proof against something yet you still believe it then you are a gullible idiot.

You won't even consider the fact that some people, including at least one member of this forum, have flushed parasites wrapped within these stones.

If the flush is doing _ absolutely_ nothing, than how is that possible???

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Hi to all,

Just thought I'd chime in here with my own experiences with the liver flush. I have done three or four now with very good results. I highly recommend what others have said, which is to do a colon cleanse after the flush. Last time, I didn't, and I broke out really badly with cyst-like pimples. This time around, I took OxyPowder and I didn't break out.

Regarding the flush, I don't know if stones are coming out or not. And actually I don't care if stones come out or not, or what they're made of, as long as I get good results, that is, as long as my acne goes away, which it is doing. I'm just as skeptical as the next person, so I can safely say it is not the "sugar-pill" effect as Melek claims. Heck, if that worked, I'd have been rid of my acne a long, long time ago, considering how many different courses of action I've taken to try to get rid of my acne (Accutane, antibiotics, birth control pills) and have always had high hopes and the desperate desire to believe that any one of these will work (obviously, they never did, or I don't think I'd have searched for alternative methods). I am also doing acupuncture, which I believe is helping as well with my overall skin tone and color. What I'm NOT trying are any more traditional dermatologists or MDs who have not helped my acne at all, in most cases made it worse. I am really appreciative of this site, and for people who come on here (like most of the people who have posted in this thread) to share their experiences. As I said before, I am only interested in what WORKS. As long as its not dangerous, I'm willing to try almost anything, and hearing what works for other people helps me figure out what I want to do. I'm 30 years old, and I've had it with the acne!!

Regarding people like Melek on the site, I'm curious as to why a moderator isn't booting him off the list. It's one thing to disagree and say so nicely; it's another thing altogether to call some "inbred" and to make nasty accusations. Since I have had to figure out how to get rid of my acne on my own, and since I don't have a degree in nutrition or chemistry or anything of the sort, I welcome any exploration of what may or may not be true about a given procedure I might undergo in an effort to get rid of my acne. But what I don't welcome is abusive people like him on this list.

~suzanne

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hey suzanne, do u think the oxy powder would just work alone??? i am trying that for now. on monday i get a lab test back to see if i have parasites bc i been doing a lot of traveling lately and have the distended abdomen and other yucky digestive probs...as well as the freakin ACNE that is like whoa. what do you think about the oxy powder and what did it do for you??

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hey suzanne, do u think the oxy powder would just work alone??? i am trying that for now. on monday i get a lab test back to see if i have parasites bc i been doing a lot of traveling lately and have the distended abdomen and other yucky digestive probs...as well as the freakin ACNE that is like whoa. what do you think about the oxy powder and what did it do for you??

Hi,

I had high hopes for the OxyPowder...I did a month of that - 1 week of the high dose plus 3 weeks of the lower dose - and didn't see a big improvement in my acne. I still broke out. I really like it for the liver flush though - it keeps things moving, yes it does!! I don't know if it will work alone, I could see for some people it might if their acne is due only to constipation (I don't know if acne can be attributed only to that).

I'm curious, what's the procedure for getting tested for parasites? What kind of doctor does this?

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Hi to all,

Just thought I'd chime in here with my own experiences with the liver flush. I have done three or four now with very good results. I highly recommend what others have said, which is to do a colon cleanse after the flush. Last time, I didn't, and I broke out really badly with cyst-like pimples. This time around, I took OxyPowder and I didn't break out.

Regarding the flush, I don't know if stones are coming out or not. And actually I don't care if stones come out or not, or what they're made of, as long as I get good results, that is, as long as my acne goes away, which it is doing. I'm just as skeptical as the next person, so I can safely say it is not the "sugar-pill" effect as Melek claims. Heck, if that worked, I'd have been rid of my acne a long, long time ago, considering how many different courses of action I've taken to try to get rid of my acne (Accutane, antibiotics, birth control pills) and have always had high hopes and the desperate desire to believe that any one of these will work (obviously, they never did, or I don't think I'd have searched for alternative methods). I am also doing acupuncture, which I believe is helping as well with my overall skin tone and color. What I'm NOT trying are any more traditional dermatologists or MDs who have not helped my acne at all, in most cases made it worse. I am really appreciative of this site, and for people who come on here (like most of the people who have posted in this thread) to share their experiences. As I said before, I am only interested in what WORKS. As long as its not dangerous, I'm willing to try almost anything, and hearing what works for other people helps me figure out what I want to do. I'm 30 years old, and I've had it with the acne!!

Regarding people like Melek on the site, I'm curious as to why a moderator isn't booting him off the list. It's one thing to disagree and say so nicely; it's another thing altogether to call some "inbred" and to make nasty accusations. Since I have had to figure out how to get rid of my acne on my own, and since I don't have a degree in nutrition or chemistry or anything of the sort, I welcome any exploration of what may or may not be true about a given procedure I might undergo in an effort to get rid of my acne. But what I don't welcome is abusive people like him on this list.

~suzanne

Suzzanne,

What you mentioned above in bold is exactly what myself and others had tried to tell such members and they still brush it off and call it the nocebo or placebo effect! It's like, why wouldn't I believe with all my heartthat the "greatest acne treatment in over 30 years" - Accutane or Spironolactone (anti-androgen) would work more for me than some sort of liver flush. :wacko: Interestingly enough, they will still use this same argument when we say that we discovered that by doing or using one thing, it accidentally did something positive for us elsewhere that was completely unexpected...yet it's still the placebo effect. It's really sad and actually, when members get to a point where all they are doing is starting fires, they have been banned.

As for the parasite testing, you could try a regular doctor but I've read that you would have to get tested several times because your stool may not contain any parasites or eggs based on their development cycle. Or you could consider that if you own an pet, eat raw or undercooked foods, seafoods, or live in a country that is known to have higher parasitic infections, then you may already have some. So you could try a cleanse and see what happens (you may not see anything whether you have some or not depending on what growth stage they are in) or get tested by a regular doctor or Naturopathic Physician.

Best wishes!

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hey suzanne, do u think the oxy powder would just work alone??? i am trying that for now. on monday i get a lab test back to see if i have parasites bc i been doing a lot of traveling lately and have the distended abdomen and other yucky digestive probs...as well as the freakin ACNE that is like whoa. what do you think about the oxy powder and what did it do for you??

Hi,

I had high hopes for the OxyPowder...I did a month of that - 1 week of the high dose plus 3 weeks of the lower dose - and didn't see a big improvement in my acne. I still broke out. I really like it for the liver flush though - it keeps things moving, yes it does!! I don't know if it will work alone, I could see for some people it might if their acne is due only to constipation (I don't know if acne can be attributed only to that).

I just thought I'd mention that Oxy-Powder really cleared me up quite a bit for a few months. I wasn't having very regular BMs (not eliminating food within 24-36 hours of eating it), and I think my acne has a lot to do with that. So it's different for different people. Anyway, I had to maintain good digestion (after getting off Oxy-Powder) to maintain clear skin... and then the results did not last for more than a few months. I am pretty certain that my acne now has a lot to do with my liver. Oxy-Powder is a good place to start if you've had chronic constipation, though.

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Believe what you like. The Barbar cured acne by bleeding people. You cure calcified stones of bile and cholesterol that are too large to pass through the bile ducts and only the softest of which can be broken up by a combination of the strongest corrosive our gallbladder can survive and sonic vibrations by drinking grapefruit juice and olive oil. Xrays, ultrasound and catscans miss these multi-centimeter diameter stones, but they're there... in almost everyone. Despite there being a known approximation that only a single digit percentage of americans even have gallbladder stones, much less ones of a size to cause problems.

There are always plenty of undereducated schmucks to fund and promote the latest quackery that tells them real nicely how easy it is to cure diseases that in fact require surgery. Sure it's reckless endangerment that gets people senselessly killed, but freedom of speech and all that rot.

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Yes, it's a sad existance watching very stupid people listen to morons charging $300 for thirty cents worth of herbal suppliments that will have no effect.

If someone had tried to charge me for liver flushes, I would probably be as skeptical as you. But they didn't. The information was available free of charge. I did not spend one penny doing this, unless you could the money I spent buy from epsom salts from my chemist and the grapefruit from my green-grocers.

My feces is never green, so that doesn't tie into why some of my stones were green. The procedure I undertook doing the flushes was the same, yet the results were different. And yes, I do examin my feces a lot, particularly during flushes.

The argument you're trying, yet failing, to articulate is an interesting one. But the thing is, as soon as anyone challenges you, you don't respond in an articulate manner, you just call someone a moron, or similar. This makes your argument look weak. You need to work on your arguing skills, as you have good points to bring to the discussion, yet you ruin them by personally attacking anyone who dares to disagree with you, or just claim you know so much more than them and thus they should just give in.

The Epsom salts argument is interesting, yet nullified by the fact there are liver flushes without epsom salts. The argument about the stones being too big to remove is also interesting, but then this is why the epsom salts, or similar, is taken to facilitate their exit and the grapefruit to break them up. This is probably the most interesting argument.

But I understand your frustration. No matter what argument you come up with, the people, who have tried many things and failed with those and have suceeded with liver flushes, will always disagree with you due to their personal successes with liver flushes, again, when many, many other things have failed.

You may know more than me about chemistry, and a lot of the things you say are true. Yet I cannot believe that liver flushes are a complete fad due to my personal success with them when, you'll get bored of me saying this pretty soon, many many things have failed.

I, unfortunately for you, value personal experience over text-book claims.

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SweetJade and all,

Thanks for this information on the parasite testing!

And by the way, regarding what you were saying about this:

Interestingly enough, they will still use this same argument when we say that we discovered that by doing or using one thing, it accidentally did something positive for us elsewhere that was completely unexpected[/

u]...yet it's still the placebo effect.

One thing I noticed after the first liver flush I did was that the skin on my heels got soft. I had extremely dry skin there, I had/have no idea why...it was like a hoof, with cracks and peeling skin. And after the flush, it just went away. There was nothing else to attribute it to. This can't have been placebo effect...i wasn't even considering that a liver flush would get rid of my hooves :) And with this last one, the little pimples I have on my forehead have dimished. I don't even think about those, they are nothing compared to the cysts I can get. So I was happy and surprised to see they are going away. I plan to keep doing more flushes.

SweetJade, have you been doing liver flushes? Have you had success with these or noticed positive changes?

And secondregent, thanks for your great post.

~Suzanne

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One thing I noticed after the first liver flush I did was that the skin on my heels got soft. I had extremely dry skin there, I had/have no idea why...it was like a hoof, with cracks and peeling skin. And after the flush, it just went away. There was nothing else to attribute it to. This can't have been placebo effect...i wasn't even considering that a liver flush would get rid of my hooves :)

~Suzanne

I'm really not a believer in this liver flushing thing....Gall stones are hard and calcified stones that cannot possibly pass through the bile ducts (as they are way too large)......but I'm not trying to attack anyone or start a fight here...... so I won't go on.........

It is possible though that the "flush" could produce some results like you have seen, if the flush involves drinking large quantities of olive oil, as these flushes tend to. Cracked heels are a sign of EFA deficiency. Drinking a large quantity of oilve oil (which is rich in linoleic and oleic acids) could have helped you overcome this deficiency....curing you of your "hooves." EFA's also help stregnthen the skin's lipid barrier which is usually damaged in acne sufferers.......Impaired water barrier function in acne vulgaris

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The flushes without salts are $175 herbal kits the sites sell themselves. They contain suppliments which may contain natural dessicants, but more likely don't and claims of stones being flushed are just bull from people who refuse to admit they spend $175 on bunk.

I don't call people idiots unless they absolutely refuse to debate on reasonable grounds. "But but but my acne is better" is not an arguement. It's an opinion. Any arguement dealing with fact is unfailingly hands down going to prove me right and you wrong. Because it's a ridiculous idea. Once again, spend ten minutes researching the digestive system from sources other then the proponents of this retarded "flush" and you'll slap yourself in the head and say, "Wow, only a complete moron would be able to believe in this crap if they knew the slightest thing about the physiology involved." Quite frankly, a doctor who had paid attention in medical school would laugh at you if he was honest and you mentioned this crap to him. It's a joke. That's why I'm not bothering to debate you on what you feel is fair grounds. Because you have no arguement. All you have to back-up your claim is hear-say and some schmucks pretending to be big important doctors for "big hospitals". I have every field of science that could possibly be applied to this proving you wrong time and time again, yet you ignore it.

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Could you post some links that back up your arguements? I just wanna know the truth :)

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One thing I noticed after the first liver flush I did was that the skin on my heels got soft. I had extremely dry skin there, I had/have no idea why...it was like a hoof, with cracks and peeling skin. And after the flush, it just went away. There was nothing else to attribute it to. This can't have been placebo effect...i wasn't even considering that a liver flush would get rid of my hooves :)

~Suzanne

I'm really not a believer in this liver flushing thing....Gall stones are hard and calcified stones that cannot possibly pass through the bile ducts (as they are way too large)......but I'm not trying to attack anyone or start a fight here...... so I won't go on.........

It is possible though that the "flush" could produce some results like you have seen, if the flush involves drinking large quantities of olive oil, as these flushes tend to. Cracked heels are a sign of EFA deficiency. Drinking a large quantity of oilve oil (which is rich in linoleic and oleic acids) could have helped you overcome this deficiency....curing you of your "hooves." EFA's also help stregnthen the skin's lipid barrier which is usually damaged in acne sufferers.......Impaired water barrier function in acne vulgaris

I suppose that could have happened, but I was already taking EFAs daily by the time I did my first flush. I don't think I was deficient at that point, but certainly was before. Also, I took 1/2 cup of olive oil, not really a "large quantity" I don't think...I would be surprised if that alone was enough to fix the dry skin. Like I said, though, I am not committed to the idea that I am passing stones. I am committed to doing what works.

Thanks for the link - looks interesting, I'll check that out.

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One thing I noticed after the first liver flush I did was that the skin on my heels got soft. I had extremely dry skin there, I had/have no idea why...it was like a hoof, with cracks and peeling skin. And after the flush, it just went away. There was nothing else to attribute it to. This can't have been placebo effect...i wasn't even considering that a liver flush would get rid of my hooves :)

~Suzanne

I'm really not a believer in this liver flushing thing....Gall stones are hard and calcified stones that cannot possibly pass through the bile ducts (as they are way too large)......but I'm not trying to attack anyone or start a fight here...... so I won't go on.........

It is possible though that the "flush" could produce some results like you have seen, if the flush involves drinking large quantities of olive oil, as these flushes tend to. Cracked heels are a sign of EFA deficiency. Drinking a large quantity of oilve oil (which is rich in linoleic and oleic acids) could have helped you overcome this deficiency....curing you of your "hooves." EFA's also help stregnthen the skin's lipid barrier which is usually damaged in acne sufferers.......Impaired water barrier function in acne vulgaris

You are only talking about calcified stones.

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Could you post some links that back up your arguements? I just wanna know the truth :)

Just google Anything we've talked about.

Start with Gallbladder, bile duct, Cholelithiasis, lithotripsy, Cholecystitis (symptoms), chenodeoxycholic acid, and manesium sulfate.

Shouldn't take more than 20-30 minutes to find half a dozen examples of why this whole "flush" is a load of shit.

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I don't call people idiots unless they absolutely refuse to debate on reasonable grounds. "But but but my acne is better" is not an arguement. It's an opinion. Any arguement dealing with fact is unfailingly hands down going to prove me right and you wrong.

Everything that you believe is also just your opinion. Basically, there are no facts -- nothing is 100% for sure. You're just believing what you read and what doctors tell you. And those of us who believe in the liver flush are just believing what we read and what some other people tell us. The difference between your argument against liver flushing and other's argument FOR liver flushing is that the latter is based on personal experience (as well as reading/research). It actually cures a lot of people's acne (and other various symptoms/diseases), so then these people believe in it because it worked for them. You'd be hard pressed to find a doctor or derm who could tell you the first thing about eliminating the root cause of acne. (I think we can all agree that acne is not the result of an Accutane deficiency.)

So what matters except for experience and results?

PS: What's your argument against the liver flush again? That the Epsom salts create the "stones"? You never really responded to the fact that some people don't use Epsom salts... :think:

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No, you see. There's this little thing called scientific method. It says that my arguements are fact.

You have this thing called. "I say so and so does my buddy and this guy I met on the internet." It says that your arguements are opinion.

And in case you aren't familiar with how the world works... fact steps on opinion, and grinds it into the dirt then laughs at it and pokes it's corpse with a little stick.

Experience and result work when you are dealing with an unknown outcome. When an experiment is methodically failing and therefore KNOWN impossible to achieve the origional hypothesis (As is the case here), then there's no such thing as experience and result. Only bullshit. You say your flushing dozens/hundreds/-whatever amount you claim- of gallstones by swallowing some epsom salts and grapefruit? Well, it's fact that is not possible. What we already know proves this. Thus your arguement is bullshit.

What you are saying is no more reasonable than if you were to claim that the speed of sound were greater than the speed of light. And say, well this guy and that guy say that they saw sound move faster than light!

1. An ingested Dessicant is responsible for these stones

2. Olive oil is used to contribute mass/texture/color and to stimulate the gallbladder to release bile into the duodenum, thus to introduce bile and "gallbladder parasites" into the intestine and therefore the "stone" constructed there.

3. Lemon juice is used as a catalyst for the epsom salts

4. The bile duct is physically not capable of passing these stones. A look at a cross-section of one demonstrates what a laughable idea this is.

5. Gallstones are uncommon. Only a small percentage of people have them at all. Practically no one has them before their mid twenties to thirties.

6. Gallstones don't impair gallbladder or liver function

7. The exception to 6 is when they become severe and/or block the bile ducts.

8. When this happens there is obvious evidence of this, and medical attention should be sought immediately.

9. Claims of herbs or epsom salts softening or breaking up the stones are absurd. Strong corrosives and targeted sonic vibrations can only break up very small ones.

10. Claims of epsom salts relaxing the bile ducts are bull. We know that magnesium sulfate does not have this effect. It's entirely made up.

11. The largest gallstones a minimally invasive surgery to remove gallstones can remove (by passing through the bile duct) is 1-1.5cm. That requires chemically relaxing the duct as well as literally slicing it to allow more room. Again, this is using the best relaxant available for the job and surgery to increase the diameter of the passage.

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The flushes without salts are $175 herbal kits the sites sell themselves. They contain suppliments which may contain natural dessicants, but more likely don't and claims of stones being flushed are just bull from people who refuse to admit they spend $175 on bunk.

And I don't know anyone here who's bought those kits. I only know people who followed freely available instructions.

"But but but my acne is better" is not an arguement. It's an opinion. ... All you have to back-up your claim is hear-say and some schmucks pretending to be big important doctors for "big hospitals".

Well, it may not be an arugment in your books. But I'm here to cure my acne, not to conform to your definition of an argument. I think most people here are for self-help purposes more than academic purposes.

Yes, I don't have any doctors backing up my claims, they'd probably disagree with me, but that's not important to me. What's important to me is reducing my acne. And I'm not backing up my claims with schmucks or hear-say, but with personal experience. Something helped me, so I inform others about it as it may help them as well. I'm not backing an argument I no nothing about, or just something that'd I've read.

Personally I think you'd be better of spending your time elsewhere than talking to a bunch of people trying to cure their acne rather than finding out what's scientificially proven or not. The people on this board are mainly here because they've tried everything science has to offer, and it hasn't helped them.

Why not spend your time elsewhere and let us follow our silly-little-ways?

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Because you are putting people's health in jeopardy by lying to them. Have you ever considered what happens if someone stupid enough to believe you actually has chledocholithiasis?

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Because you are putting people's health in jeopardy by lying to them. Have you ever considered what happens if someone stupid enough to believe you actually has chledocholithiasis?

Melek is my hero.

It's nice to see some reason around here.

(I know, I know...but IT REALLY DOES WORK! And it's just my opinion and belief that I place in the medical community and we all know that they only make MONEY by lying to US!)

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