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ThereIsALight

New York City Info Wanted

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Hi all.

I live in Manhattan and want as much information as possible about scar treatments you all have gotten from docs in the city before making any more appointments.

A little background: I am a white male with mild to moderate acne scarring on my cheeks. I've done the "stretch your skin" test and if I stretch, they're 95% gone. On my right cheek, they're all clustered together right under my eye and are the exact size of my index finger. If I put my index finger over that area, they're gone. Encouraging and frustrating at the same time. On the left side, they're most spread out but concentrated on the cheek.

So I've read everything on here (well, almost...) and am unsure what to do next. Here's what I've done so far:

1) I went to a place in in Chelsea and had 3 IPL treatments for 300$ each. I don't think they did very much at all. I stopped after the third time which may have been dumb, but I did.

2) I then went to the Skinklinic on the Upper East Side and the doc recommend a 30% TCA peel. The only time I could afford the downtime was 11.15.05 and they forgot to order the peel and had to delay it which made me have to cancel it. I also thought if they didn't have any on hand does this mean they don't do that many. That seems strange right??

3) I was referred by my derm to Dr Melanie Grossman a few years ago but her intitial appointment is cost prohibitive at 300$ with no option to apply it to a treatment. I finally bit the bullet and paid the 300$ to see her. I asked about fillers and she said she'd rather try the lasers first b/c they're more permanent and then do fillers after that. She said she's seen 50-70% improvement with non ablative lasers (I didn't ask which she has but I think it's Smoothbeam). I want to try this, but EVERYONE says that these lasers don't work. Also, how do they differ from IPL?

I KNOW my scars can be improved. I've seen ones that I know can't, but I'm pretty sure mine can. I just need to figure out what to do.

Also, I think this message board needs one place where everyone in New York posts about real docs with real stories and results. We live in a city with a lot of resources. I want to hear from some people who have had good results. I want to know who you went to and what you got done. Please post here for others to use as reference also.

Please help!! Can't wait to hear back.

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We need to know what type of scars you have. If you are not sure then you should read the faq here: FAQ

We all thought that Smoothbeam was "it" when it was FDA approved, but after a year it appears it doesn't really do much in terms of scars. There are quite a few threads on it.

I'm also from NYC and here is a thread that someone started about NYC docs: 2 other NYC docs

Its late and I'm sorry if I couldn't be anymore informative.

DJT

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Thanks for the reply. I hope we get more here as there are so many resources in New York.

My guess on the type of scar is: rolling and boxed. The depth is such: when I wakeup in the morning, they're not bad at all. My overall skin is not bad. (A lot of people have mentioned this, I know.) If I stretch it, they pretty much go away except for a few. If I "lift" the skin up from the bottom of the cheek plumping it up, the scars also disappear.

What I want though is to know which doctors are good. I need someone who is enthusiastic AND compentent AND interested in helping me with what I want to improve. Two of that places I went, both women told me the acne scars aren't that bad. I was like "Okay, but what can we do about them?" They exist. I'm not imagining it and like some of the really mild cases on these boards, they're not that mild or I'd be psyched.

I want a doc who's interested and wants to take the reigns and do a few things to try to get me some improvement. If I had 50% improvement, I'd be totally happy. If I could get that from Dr Grossman, I'd do it. I just don't want to spend 3,500$ trying if there's something else that could get me there first and cheaper. What I gathered from my appointment is that lasers are the first thing she'll do and then go from there.

Also, I'd be into meeting anyone in person so that we can avoid this trying to explain scars and severity in words. I want to see real results and not rely on text messages to try to gleen what someone means from it.

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Okay ThereIsALight---

Damn! I wish I wish I could be of better help to you, but I too am from the city and I am currently seeing Virgil Hatcher whom reccomended Smoothbeam and a series of microdermabrasion treatments. The only problem is that I have no idea what he is gonna charge me for the laser treatment! He is in the Chelsea area at 420 West 23rd Street, Suite A-GF bet. 8th-9th avenues. 212) 675 4244

Here's my pathetic experience:

I like many people here was very adamant in trying laser and I knew nothing on them when I began seeing Dr. Hatcher. I went into his office with the preconcieved notion that laser isn't for me--don't even speak to me about it because I didn't want to hear it! So when Dr. Hatcher began talking to me about the cost of his microderm proceedures he happened to somewhere along the lines mention how much he would charge for 4 series of laser, which I completely ignored as blah blah blah...talk. Believe it or not, thats how stupid I was and didn't hear one word of what he had said. He won't even speak to me about laser treatment now because I am under Accutane treatment as of a few weeks ago to prevent me from breaking out during any microderm proceedure (two visits ago I walked into his consultory with two huge cysts on the side of my face, something which hadn't happened to me in 4 years!) Now, with all the time waiting required post-accutane treatments, were talking laser sometime in the far far away future for me, maybe a year or more! There are a lot of issues I have to resolve before laser, therefore, I can't be of much help when it comes to results.

One thing I like about Dr. Hatcher is that he takes responsibility for any possible adverse outcome that could come from any of his proceedures. He is charging me $750 for 6 microderm proceedures, I just don't know how much will the laser cost me. But we do have to remember that this is NYC and I seriously doubt you will find ANY doctor who preforms SB for under $250-300 per session.

I really don't know up to this point what to think in regards to SB because like you, I have mixed feelings regarding its results since ppl here have had negative responses to it, but we also have to consider what their level of scarring was. Like you, I have shallow shallow scarring, but the number of these scars makes it look really bad. I have also a lot of hyperpigmentation and brown marks which aggravate the appearance of these. When it comes to red marks and brown spots I have heard about a 90% approval rate for SB.

If you haven't come accross these threads yet regarding SB read these:

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...topic=76160&hl=

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...wtopic=8140&hl=

My inspiration for undergoing microdermabrasion for shallow scarring has really been a member here at Acne.org (Magnetixboy) who had a series of power peels done and has seen AMAZING results on his pock marks despite all the negative comments and discouragement he got that microderm wouldn't work for him and that it was completely useless and a waste of time when it came to scar revision, but he stuck it out and went ahead with it and had positive results. This is his thread:

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...topic=62911&hl=

I wish he still had his pics, but I think he removed them all. Maybe you could PM him to see them.

All I can say is that everyone is different and reacts differently, but at the same time it's hard to ignore the masses. At times you just have to make educated decisions by yourself and take the risk despite them being costly, but I'd say go with what your derm suggests if you don't know what to do because in the end its a bigger chance that your derm will know more on whats best.

~Take Care~

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thanks GD. great advice and thorough. i can't wait to hear how your microderms go.

i hear you on just going for it, but i guess i'm trying to do the homework first and am trying to get info from people who have done stuff. i don't know anyone else with skin like mine. i thought i'd done it all, but when i read these and see doctors, nobody has any consistent answers, which makes it even more confusing.

i just wish i had $10,000 or so to play with so i could do whatever i wanted!!

i hope more new yorkers post their experiences. i'd love to hear them.

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the recommened ones i've heard about so far include: dr. rapaport from new jersey whose specialty is subcision and tca cross..whatever you do..don't get the n-lite laser..i hear it's a waste of money. and then there's dr. rokhsar in nyc who specializes in fraxel. they both have internet sites of which i can't recall the address. both are respected physicians in their field..might want to do some research on them.

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Damn! I wish I wish I could be of better help to you, but I too am from the city and I am currently seeing Virgil Hatcher whom reccomended Smoothbeam and a series of microdermabrasion treatments. The only problem is that I have no idea what he is gonna charge me for the laser treatment! He is in the Chelsea area at 420 West 23rd Street, Suite A-GF bet. 8th-9th avenues. 212) 675 4244

Hey I actually went to him for a consultation about smoothbeam when it first came out a few years ago, but decided not to undergo it. The one thing I liked about him is that he actually shines a light over your face and examines your scars face to face, something other docs might not bother. He straight out told me that smoothbeam will not work on my icepick scarring so at least he's honest. When he saw me with active acne he asked me to take Accutane to control the acne first, but I also turned that down, and it was free too. I was more afraid of severe scarring from accutane then scarring from active acne. Now that I think about it, maybe I should've took it.

I'm skeptical about fraxel as I'm afraid that it'll turn out like smoothbeam. So I'm waiting till the people receiving the treatments are actually getting satisfactory results first before jumping on it.

I'm actually still deciding whether or not I'm going for a consultation for excision during my christmas break. I plan to go see a plastic surgeon in chinatown who has treated my friends and they tell me he's very skillful in what he does.

DJT

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its strange: i've always thought in the back of my mind that i didnt get scars until i was on accutane but had no way to prove it really. i just dont ever remember seeing one until after the accutane was over. i thought it was just my memory. now i'm hearing it repeatedly. i think it's true about scarring while on accutane. it should be duly noted for anyone thinking about it: do not pick any pimple while on it!!

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i think it's true about scarring while on accutane.

don't think it---believe it! Despite what info you may come accross Accutane does make you susceptible to scarring. Picking isn't always necessarily a factor in scarring. I like many in here never picked or touched my lesions, yet I scarred. It really has to do with the depth of the cyst which may have been scarred since it began to develop in the first place.

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I'm actually still deciding whether or not I'm going for a consultation for excision during my christmas break. I plan to go see a plastic surgeon in chinatown who has treated my friends and they tell me he's very skillful in what he does.

DJT

DJT, if you decide to go ahead with the excision I'd be very interested to hear how it goes. I too am in NYC. I've asked a few doctors here about excisions but they were pushing more temporary solutions like fillers.

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guys, read my research into nyc docs. please, Melanie Grossman was

HOT, but I went to the nerdy looking Marsha Gordon. Honest, I liked

the babe docs, but if, IF, I was seeking help NOW, I would go to the

two (2) docs I wrote about: First, to DR DENISE, now she is HOT HOT,

and seems a great knowledgable derm, with techniques to help; but,

I would then go to DR BASS for Fraxel: $2,500. for four (4) sessions

on your cheeks. He is the MaN.

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okay, I understand, because its your skin problem, but IF THEY"RE HOT,

so what? And tell me this, What would you think if you went to a PS or

DERM & he/she had Bad Skin, scars & zits? Would you feel comfortable?

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Hey Derek7.2~

$2,500 is pretty good for 4 sessions of Fraxel, I mean for NYC prices that is. Do you know how much these doc's you mentioned charge for microdermabrasion? I was quoted $750 for 6 with Virgil Hatcher--I'm just trying to find the best pricing.

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okay, I understand, because its your skin problem, but IF THEY"RE HOT,

so what? And tell me this, What would you think if you went to a PS or

DERM & he/she had Bad Skin, scars & zits? Would you feel comfortable?

i see your point, but if i knew someone who'd gone to a doc who had horrible skin and had

gotten great results, it wouldn't matter to me. i'm concerned with their skills

not their looks.

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hey I am living in Manhattan also, just rencetly I visited Dr. GOldberg I went there for consulation it cost me 200 $ for the session. I asked quite alot of questions. I am sorry to say that I don't think Dr Goldberg is passionate enough on his own patient, I asked him from scale 1 to 10 how bad my scarring was and he simply replied " well withouth examinining and looking closely I think you are on 6" I would expect him to be more into his profesion... if I was him I would take my time and take a good look at the problem area and make a good conclusion. In the end the nurse pushed me to getting the laser done so it will waive my consulation fee of 200 $, Dr Goldberg isn't cheap he charge 1100 for a session of fraxel and 800 for SB.

I am interested in getting a chemical peel or even needling done here in the city... have anyone get those procedures done here in the city ? any infos on the physicians?

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scared--

$800 for how many sessions?

I'm gonna call my derm after the holidays and ask him about his price on SB.

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i'm in NYC as well. I'm going to see a board certified dermatologic surgeon which accepts my insurance first, possibly see several of them just so the cost of my consultation visit is covered. After I get multiple opinions I'll probably see someone who is highly regarded such as Dr. Rokshar (sp?) and go from there.

But my opinion is scar treatment will take a significant amount of money, which I don't exactly have. Also you have to figure out what will work for you based on your type of scarring first. I think it will not be easy to find a doctor that can do that for you. They all push methods which they specialize in. Sadly, we have to basically try everything and see what works best and just hope it doesn't make things worse.

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thissucks: i think you're right. it's trial and error to see what works. i'm hoping here to at least get conversation flowing. even with trial and error and varying types of scars, there have to be some treatments that work better than others and some docs with better prices, more rounded approaches, better bedside manner, etc than others. that's my hope with this ongoing post.

i think the first thing i'm going to do is go back to chelsea eye to the new aesthetician and do a microderm and a light peel. right now, i need a jumpstart to see a bit of improvement to get me to the next step.

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scared! that is waaay too much for SB! You should call Virgil Hatcher and ask his pricing. I don't know if he does needling, but chemical peels definitely. I think that for a Chelsea area derm his pricing are comparatively moderate. I don't know if that would be your opinion too. Definitely I have seen better deals. I just have to take him because of geographic convenience.

I would call him myself but It's hard for me since I am currently in the South at my parents place and I have no long distance. PLUS I'm pretty much screwed because I can't get around here without a car to go to the nearest store and get a calling card! Yea, I'm pretty much homebound for a month!

ThisSucks, what insurance do you have? Maybe Hatcher might take it if its a major insurance.

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ThereIsALight

Let me know how your microderm goes and how much did they charge you for it. Thanks I wish you luck, bud!~

In regards to SB: it's funny, but I KNOW that with the number of people living in the metro area of NY there has got to be a rats-nest number of people with acne, marks and scars who have had SB done with positive results! I really hope I am not being a naive dreamer, but I want to believe that this laser might in the long run do some good. My derm already warned me that SB takes a long while to see any results; maybe even over a year. Reason number 101 why it is a non-ablative laser. SB works by STIMULATINGgrowth of collagen under the dermis, not instantaneously erradicating scar tissue. I think people who have claimed it didn't work expected results after the 3rd 4th session, but maybe it's not supposed to work that way for everyone. Maybe the laser effect remains under the dermis promoting their bodies own natural responses to dermal damage, therefore it essentially BECOMES a natural inhibitor in the body---the laser essentially becomes organic (did that sound stupid?) and we all know how slowly nature works (let me know how retarded I'm sounding please---)

I dunno, I am probably being very hopeful about this and it might eventually lead to my downfall, but if I at least had the darnest inkling that SB will not cause me the total opposite like more scarring, I would definitely do it because sometimes I think that people expect too much from the laser or immediate results like Fraxel and shoot down the laser before they even wait out a year or so. And even if it doesn't erradicate my scars, it might help me in promoting collagen while I try something else; then it wouldn't be such a waste of time. I just don't agree with the pricing for such an iffy product.

I'm not saying there hasn't been members in this board who have had negative effects from SB and no one can say they haven't waited the long run to know whether SB was a waste of time or not, but God knows if they are the minority! Unfortunately, there is no one here that can tell me if SB will cause me to scar further, not even a derm. It's all part of the effects of trial-and-error. I just wish that more people surfaced who have had it done with positive results and would help balance the uneveness in this board. THEN maybe that would help me make a more educated guess if it might happen.

The dangest part of this whole situation is that you will always have whats SEEMS like the greater majority of people posting negativity about their results with this method. Reason being that those who have had it done with good results will never need a reason to come back to an acne scar board. Or, even sadly so, many people have never even heard of Acne.org!

From now on, everytime I see my derm, I'm gonna start out-of-the-blue random conversations with people in the waiting room and milk whatever info on SB treatments they know of on someone who has had it done---~Lol~ :D even if I get referalls from them to a psych clinic!

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ThereIsALight were you able to find out how much was microderm at the Chelsea eye center you mentioned? Is this an eye center or a skin center?? I'm supposing this place does not have qualified real derms just aestheticians, right?

Do you happen to have images of your scarring by the way? I am trying to get a hold of a camera soon, but won't be able to for at least the end of the month until I go back to NJ. When I do you can pm me and I will send you images and you can tell me if mines are similar to yours since you say you have shallow scars. Like you, I too if I pull slightly at my skin, I can eliminate about 95% of these.

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I'm still looking for a Fraxel doctor...

Dr Rapport

Dr Rokhsar

Dr Bass

all have it.. Rokhsar is probably the best guy to go to because he's the most experienced with it and helped develop it apparently. But cost is $1200 per treatment with 5 reccomended.. so that's $6000!!!!

Dr Bass does $2500 for 4 treatments of cheeks.. $6000 for full face of 4. So he's even more expensive (i just called).. he's also a plastic surgeon and not a dermatologist..

Rapport, no clue but I believe the same as Rokhsar but he's experienced with it too, also a dermatologist and does other things as well.

With that said, I'm not sure i can afford to dump $6000 on something that might not work. I will go to see Bass and see how much of a 'cheek' he covers.. because those are my main problem areas..

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I'm still looking for a Fraxel doctor...

Dr Rapport

Dr Rokhsar

Dr Bass

all have it.. Rokhsar is probably the best guy to go to because he's the most experienced with it and helped develop it apparently. But cost is $1200 per treatment with 5 reccomended.. so that's $6000!!!!

Dr Bass does $2500 for 4 treatments of cheeks.. $6000 for full face of 4. So he's even more expensive (i just called).. he's also a plastic surgeon and not a dermatologist..

Rapport, no clue but I believe the same as Rokhsar but he's experienced with it too, also a dermatologist and does other things as well.

With that said, I'm not sure i can afford to dump $6000 on something that might not work. I will go to see Bass and see how much of a 'cheek' he covers.. because those are my main problem areas..

wow. expensive. $6,000 is A LOT OF MONEY to "test" a procedure. keep us posted. good luck!!

is this rappaport as good as it seems he is? he's the most mentioned new york area doctor to my knowledge on these boards. i'm a little prejudice of anything in new jersey but if this guy can help me, i'll go for sure.

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I'm still looking for a Fraxel doctor...

Dr Rapport

Dr Rokhsar

Dr Bass

all have it.. Rokhsar is probably the best guy to go to because he's the most experienced with it and helped develop it apparently. But cost is $1200 per treatment with 5 reccomended.. so that's $6000!!!!

Dr Bass does $2500 for 4 treatments of cheeks.. $6000 for full face of 4. So he's even more expensive (i just called).. he's also a plastic surgeon and not a dermatologist..

Rapport, no clue but I believe the same as Rokhsar but he's experienced with it too, also a dermatologist and does other things as well.

With that said, I'm not sure i can afford to dump $6000 on something that might not work. I will go to see Bass and see how much of a 'cheek' he covers.. because those are my main problem areas..

wow. expensive. $6,000 is A LOT OF MONEY to "test" a procedure. keep us posted. good luck!!

is this rappaport as good as it seems he is? he's the most mentioned new york area doctor to my knowledge on these boards. i'm a little prejudice of anything in new jersey but if this guy can help me, i'll go for sure.

Yeah there is no way I can do $6000 for 'testing' a procedure.. which is why i may end up doing just partial treatment with Bass and see how i react, then do full face later on... But as far as Rapaport, he appears to be popular here but it looks like he does the same thing for most people, which is excision followed by N-lite.. which is like $1400 for the both of them at once and he reccomends 2-3 treatments. It also sounds like people are very dissatisfied with his attitude and his prices are apparently insane across the board, for ALL treatments.. I just wouldn't let anyone else do Excisions since he seems to be good at that so im not sure but apparently Rappaport has free consultation which is a big plus so I might consider just visiting him to see what he says.. he seems to be frank and honest about his job..

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