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Hi guys, can you answer me this....Is everyone's forehead super smooth, or do you have some natural indentations that you can just feel with your finger or see at an angle?

I ask because many people have naturally non smooth foreheads and try to fix it. I researched those treatments. From what I gathered, deep forehead scars can be hardest to treat. I am not talking about icepicks or boxcars but the ones that's had significant tissue loss, into the subcutaneous layer. In my scar you could actually feel the deep hard indented angles with a finger. It felt as if a peace was cut out. There aren't many options that can attempt to fix something that deep.

1. Collagen inducing treatments - needling, dermabrasion, lasers, saline.

Don't know how well these can work for deep scars.

2. Excision - if the hard subcutaneous fat layer is missing, cutting out the scar won't help, there will still be a hollowness of the underlying layer and the skin will stretch and sink in again. I think it is different for cheeks since they are soft. So you have to fill the void with something.

3. Filler - since a forehead is not as meaty as cheeks the right filler should be used. I was looking into fat because of the high density of DNA fat cells have the ability to mimic bone, cartilage. But on the other hand since a forehead is very flat and has almost no fat, you have to be very careful of the placement and overgrafting, as with all fillers.

4. Dermal graft - uses a segment of your own dermis as a filler.

Using small incisions, the graft is placed under the scar. Dermal grafts give a more localized correction.

5. Now this is something very drastic and would be the last resort.

Forehead recontouring surgery is performed, also known as forehead feminization surgery. It involves augmentation of the facial bone and shifting of the muscle. Sounds scary.

•You have to start with the simplest procedure and work your way up.

I decided to give saline treatments a shot, and try to induce my own collagen. The most simple procedure. I had pretty good improvement, at some lighting and angles you can't even see the scar now. I need to twist my head to catch it, but nothig like it used to be.

I think it could be very beneficial to anyone with shallow scars.

Hope this helps someone.

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Guest pokerbugg

hell yea...awesome improvements, im happy for u

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hell yea...awesome improvements, im happy for u

Is that you Jenya? Great improvement :D That's awesome

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Yep...thank you!

I figured I had good improvement I should share with the board, how selfish would I be not too.

Hope ot helps someone.

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Damn girl, I would have never noticed the dent in the after pictures at all. Most people I see have furrows and natural sinks in that area. That is all from saline injections? Are you having to do it routinely still or is it proving to be permanent?

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wow that is a really good innproennent. The only thing keeping nne fronn going to dr Sire for these saline injections is that they are not pernnanent and I ann afraid of the long ternn dannage they nnay cause if you keep on doing thenn repeatedly. :clap:

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IDBNVS- Yeah that was a weird place as there is also a natural indentation when you squint.

Last one was done 2 moth ago, I am not planing to do anymore, will see what happens.

Jasmin- From what DR. Sire says they should be permanent, (in theory) if you read some of the old posts by Scorpioness she had hers for over 2 years without any change. I don't think there can be any long term damage as saline is just sterile water. What makes you think there could be?

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WOW, I think I need to try this saline stuff for that picture I showed you of all of my left cheek scars. Seeing that kind of improvement made me feel so confident in treating them.

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Jenya,

So you only have (had) that natural scar??? If that was(is) your problem you should be really happy. Because your forehead tissue is perfect. And with that treatment your scar seems to have vanished completely. I would love to have your forehead. Unlike me, I have a lot of icepicks and scarred pores all over my forehead. So there is damaged tissue. By any chance do you know which treatment is the best for my condition?

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Wow, Jenya. Congratulations on your amazing improvement. Would you mind answering a few questions for me? I'm wondering, if you don't mind my asking, if your scar was caused by acne? Also, how old is your scar and how long before the saline injections was your "before" pic taken? Did you treat the scar in other ways or was that improvement solely from the saline? how many injections did you have? And finally (sorry) did you fly out each time to have the injections done, or did you do any of them yourself?

Thanks so much and again, congratulations--you must be so pleased (your skin looks beautiful!)

--leopolda

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Hi Jenya,

Great improvement, thanks for sharing. Where are your other scars located (if you have anymore) and what type of scars are they? What kind of improvement have you seen on your others scars (if any)?

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Jenya: Congradulations you look great. How much does Saline Injection cost? Does it only work for the type of scarring you have? I have mostly ice pick scarring and scar pores. I wonder if it could work for me. At first when I looked @ the before picture I thought you were furrowing too. And are you scar free?

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Okey, I see that everyone has lots of questions, but no one wants to answer my question.

Common guys, work with me here!

First off anyone who is interested can read my post on saline treatment, it already covers all the information.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php?showtopic=50475

Fighter: Thank you, but I also have scarred pores and icepicks you just cant see it in that picture. Im thinking on doing TCA cross on them. The scar wasn't natural but from acne.

Leopolda: of course I don't mind, that is why I posted, so hopefully it can help others. The scar was about 8 month, I started the treatment in April and the after picture was taken in September.

I didn't try any other treatments. I had 8 treatments. I only had the 1st one done by Dr. Sire the rest was done by a nurse here. I think it would be too much to fly out each time, but you are lucky since you are in CA.

New guy: I only treated this scar, since it was the biggest one it bothered me the most, so I wanted to see how things go. But if you read Violets post, she treated boxcars and rolling.

Mz: Thanks....I too have icepicks and scarred pores, don't think it would work on pores, perhaps TCA will help.

Pete: I agree, will see what happens in 12 month. But I think its better to take action and try something rather then wine that nothing works without trying anything, especially if its low cost and without side effects. Plastic surgeons so inject saline to give you an idea what a filer/implant would look like, also how much filler one might need. But is not meant to last long as saline gets reabsorbed by the body within minutes.

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•You have to start with the simplest procedure and work your way up.

I decided to give saline treatments a shot, and try to induce my own collagen. The most simple procedure. I had pretty good improvement, at some lighting and angles you can't even see the scar now. I need to twist my head to catch it, but nothig like it used to be.

I think it could be very beneficial to anyone with shallow scars.

Hope this helps someone.

What is the Saline Treatment, and how does it work?

Thanks

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IDBNVS- Yeah that was a weird place as there is also a natural indentation when you squint.

Last one was done 2 moth ago, I am not planing to do anymore, will see what happens.

Jasmin- From what DR. Sire says they should be permanent, (in theory) if you read some of the old posts by Scorpioness she had hers for over 2 years without any change. I don't think there can be any long term damage as saline is just sterile water. What makes you think there could be?

I was just thinking about how this works and I know salt plunnps things up due to swelling by drawing fluids to the area but I ha/e also read prolonged swelling for e/annple in the eyes Can lead to wrinkles in this area. I innagine it Causes a break down in the skin. That is part of the reason I would innagine your eye area ages faster if you loose sleep be/ause of the Continued swelling and other things su/h as your hornnones being out of whaCk due to laCk of sleep. I just had an e/odernn Chennobrasion with Dr. Rullan and I do not see an innpro/ennent in nny sCars and I ann eager to try sonnething but I ann 31 and afraid of doing anything that will age nny skin nnore sinCe I already ha/e less Collagen and probably elastin in nny skin due to sCars. I really wish this would work by stinnulating Collagen. I wish i Could read a paper on this by Dr. Sire but I Called his offi/e and there is no paper written by hinn on this treatnnent. He sounds like a good guy with good intentions though. NiCe of hinn to donate his tinne to gang nnennbers who want their tatoos renno/ed. I ann in Los Angeles so it would be /ery easy for nne to go see hinn . NNaybe I will s/hedule a Consult. Thanks for keeping us infornned.

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Dont think anyone knows how this works. Normal saline isnt a skin irritant as far as I know because its used to bathe open wounds so its hard to see how it can induce a wound healing response if it doesnt induce irritation. Its not corrosive enough to dissolve scar tissue either.

Hey Mete Pete, The way I understand the saline treatment works is that it actually creates a space within the layers of damaged tissue that was tethered to itself and thus causing the depression. So in effect, the saline works a bit like needling by unbinding the stuck, depressed tissue and a bit like a filler, allowing collegen to develop in the newly formed space.

But what I don't understand is if this procedure works so well, why would there be only one doctor/clinic performing it, and why would this procedure not be documented in JAMA or somewhere similar? Seems like there have been great saline successes mentioned on this board and for them, I'm very happy and envious!

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Dont think anyone knows how this works. Normal saline isnt a skin irritant as far as I know because its used to bathe open wounds so its hard to see how it can induce a wound healing response if it doesnt induce irritation. Its not corrosive enough to dissolve scar tissue either.

Hey Mete Pete, The way I understand the saline treatment works is that it actually creates a space within the layers of damaged tissue that was tethered to itself and thus causing the depression. So in effect, the saline works a bit like needling by unbinding the stuck, depressed tissue and a bit like a filler, allowing collegen to develop in the newly formed space.

But what I don't understand is if this procedure works so well, why would there be only one doctor/clinic performing it, and why would this procedure not be documented in JAMA or somewhere similar? Seems like there have been great saline successes mentioned on this board and for them, I'm very happy and envious!

I just read that rolling scars are caused by the dermis being attached to the subcutis. So maybe this treatment works best on those type of scars. Where did you read about how the saline treatment works? I also wonder why there is no literature on this treatment if it is so effective.

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PLEASE post results again in a few months times.

I have about 3 box-car scars on my forehead, and am very interested in this procedure

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I agree with the fact that if this procedure was so effective, why aren't more docs performing it. I have heard multiple people with good credentials tell me it isn;t effective for my type of scarring. I am not whining about not being able to do it when I can..It is a simple fact of the procedure no being avaliable to me in my area for me to try.

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I agree with the fact that if this procedure was so effective, why aren't more docs performing it. I have heard multiple people with good credentials tell me it isn;t effective for my type of scarring. I am not whining about not being able to do it when I can..It is a simple fact of the procedure no being avaliable to me in my area for me to try.

No one can say for sure if it will work for you or not. You just have to give it a try and see for yourself. You can see how it worked for me, and a few other people on this board.

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