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tannoyred

What Do You All Think Of This Theory

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Well saying as this got totally ignored in another post i'll post it again! :D

A new theory from another board. Read into it and tell me what you all think??

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthr...667&page=1&pp=5

LOL, I may be biased because I actually participated in the research for that theory, but I like it. It's far more open-minded than the current theories that are out here today regarding acne. Honestly, acne is caused/created by a multitude of things and for any person, doctor, or scientist to discredit any person's answer goes to show how little they've come to thinking "outside of the box". They haven't really figured it out yet, have they? Oh so many decades or centuries of acne sufferers (and I'm sure it's gets worse every decade) and they can't figure out an answer??? Maybe, just maybe, they aren't looking in the right direction...

Best wishes :angel:

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thanks for the reply sweetjade. My main concern is taking Zantac for long periods of time. how safe do you think that is and did anyone look into the natural alternative sam-e or whatever it was called?

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Guest james11

I think the reason your theory got ousted last time is because you based the argument mainly on "more skinny people having Acne" and not the actual science behind the theory.

A great way of getting more people aware of this theory would be to post a concise version of all those other discussions that you put up a link for.

:)

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good point James but i dont think i can explain it nearly as well as the author/s of the post. the link really needs to be read into fully. i think theres something in there and anyone who is thin no matter what they eat, looses weight easy, suffers mild alergies, suffers from depression every now and then, gets hunger pains if they dont eat for a few hours, has long fingers and toes, not much body hair should really read into it!

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No, I don't advocate Zantac, (over the long term) I would go with more natural methods.

There's actually 2 theories within that thread, the first is dealing with Histadelia (Histamine Hypersensitivity) and the second is dealing with Hypersenstivies in general, which can lead to Histadelia, Insulin Resistance, etc. all of which can have acne as symptom/sign.

The second theory is the one that I think more people can identifiy with as it includes more than one type of hypersensitivity condition. Furtheremore, it discusses that even while using an OTC drug or supplement that changing your diet, in conjuction with, will ultimately yield you the best results. However, not everyone probably needs to do this as certain hypersensitivies are a result of developing Leaky Gut Syndrome (several causes) and therefore, theorectically (this worked for some members of this board) after you've healed your damaged intestinal lining one should find that certain hypersensivities and the foods associated with it (can varies for each person) will go away!

Take care

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leaky gut WHO came up with that name for a medical condition lol

I have looked over the web and i dont seem to suffer from many of the symptoms associated with LGS.

I have changed my diet (no dairy, wheat , or bad sugars, lots of water, fruit, veg and little red meat) and have been taking Zantac for the past week. Good results up until the weekend when i drank for 3 nights on in a row (only a couple of beers) but i broke out with a couple of BIG BIG spots 2 days later.

Going to keep trying and not drink from now on. Prob is if i clear what do i do about the Zantac?

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I read the whole message thread (2 hrs....) and in conclusion I think that there may be something to this theory. The theory I speak of is that Th1:Th2 ratio is unbalanced in bodies of some acne sufferers. I believe kkbp, one of the posters on that thread, along with SweetJade, explain very well how this relates to acne. I couldn't really be bothered with all the scientific abstracts, but I did follow some points that I think are the key concepts:

- Th1:Th2 imbalances cause acne.

- Th1 is related to the antibodies that fight diseases, while Th2 is related to the antibodies that detect diseases that we have had before.

- If Th1 < Th2, then bacteria, viruses, parasites are not being fought as well on the skin or in the body, so there's more toxins that are produced on the skin.

- Moreover, if Th2 is excessively greater than Th1, then you get a lot of acid in your stomach which burns carbs very quickly, and very inefficiently.

- Burning carbs so quickly causes insulin spikes, and produces lots of toxins.

- To overcome this problem, temporarily test for yourself by suppresing Th2 with Ranitidine (Zantac).

- This shows if you have something related to this theory.

This makes sense to me so far because (1) I have all the symptoms of those people who burn carbs too fast, (2) my dad had a lot of stomach acid problems and ulcers (Th2 > Th1), my sister did too. My brother, sister, and dad all have skin problems (bro has psoriasis, all else have acne). So in our genetics we may just have imbalances in immune system, which should be fixed to alleviate the problems.

Hope this helps.

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see it does make a lot of sense. I am trying the Zantac at the moment. wil keep updated!

dont know why more people dont take the time to read it. think there may be something really big in this theory and it substanciates all this stuff about dieting effecting acne

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leaky gut WHO came up with that name for a medical condition lol

I have looked over the web and i dont seem to suffer from many of the symptoms associated with LGS.

I have changed my diet (no dairy, wheat , or bad sugars, lots of water, fruit, veg and little red meat) and have been taking Zantac for the past week. Good results up until the weekend when i drank for 3 nights on in a row (only a couple of beers) but i broke out with a couple of BIG BIG spots 2 days later.

Going to keep trying and not drink from now on. Prob is if i clear what do i do about the Zantac?

Yeah Leaky Gut Syndrome is the holistic name for it, but the actual medical names would be:

Intestinal Hyperpermeability

Damaged Mucosal Intestinal Lining

Anyway, as for the "symptoms", it's a syndrome as a such, you don't have to have all of the signs/symptoms. Unfortunately it's because of this that some doctors and regular folks make the assumption that "so and so doesn't have something because it doesn't fit the physical mold for it", yet if one were to get tested, they may find they they truly did have a particular health/metabolic condition.

Of course, getting tested for something is not always a guarantee that you do or don't have a particular condition. I always suggest that people get a copy of their test results to find out how close they really were to being postivie or negative for it, as they may be one of those hypersenstive beings that can still benefit from treatment.

With that in mind, the holistic view is that if you have an allergy or some other hypersensitivity (there are 4 types) that it is usually a result of Leaky Gut Syndrome (LGS). LGS can create a host of other health conditions or syndromes that can be chronic slient inflammatory disorders in nature (Acne (symptom), IBS, Insulin Resistance, Crohns Disease, etc). Now there are some hypersensitivies such as Celiac Disease where the actual food particle is directly damaging your intestines, but otherwise, the intestines were already damaged due to something else (and the food particles that enter just induce the inflammatory immune response that zantac, antibiotics, anti-inflammatories or other supplements help suppress).

Therefore, theoretcially the BEST treatment would be to heal your leaky gut, if that's the problem. If you want to find out if it is you can get a Intestinal Permeability Test and see what it says. You can also review your own lifestyle habits and see if any of the below apply to you (a few causes):

Chronic Stress

Low Fiber Diet (refined foods, carbohydrates)

Low Nutrient Diet

Chronic Antiboitic use (colds maybe, but taken for months/years for acne)

Chronic/Inappropriate NSAIDs use (tylenol, asprin, motrin, etc)

Chronic/High Glucocorticoid use (dexamethasone, prednisone)

Alcohol Abuse

Pathogenic Microbes

Fungi Overgrowth (ex: intestinal candida)

Bacteria Overgrowth

Parasite Infestation (ex: mites)

Obviously, some of those you should be well aware of and others, you probably don't have a clue about. However, based on say, antibiotic use, that would give you a good idea as to whether you might be sufferring from an overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria and/or fungi. In fact antibiotics themselves can also directly cause Leaky Gut Syndrome, unless it's only associated with such a condition, because it can cause other microbes to profliferate (grow) freely in your system which then irritates and causes damage to your intestines.....hmm.

So if you've noticed that some members are discussing detoxing, fasts, cleanses (parasite, candida, kidney, etc) liver flushes or taking things like probiotics or fermented foods (Kombucha), this is at least part of the reason. All of these can help eliminate some microbes that are possibly irritating to your intestinal lining, which allows for it to heal. Whereas food avoidance allows for your body not to constantly keep reacting to the large food particules that are entering your bloodstream through your damaged intestines (should NEVER happen), which also allows for it to heal. Then one takes supplements (there's a few out there) that provide nutrients and encourage your intestines to heal and eventually one finds that they no longer have allergies, or food or chemical sensitivities anymore or that if they do, it's been greatly reduced. In otherwords a member may have been avoiding 10 food items finds that after going the "whole nine yards" ;-) they only have to avoid 2 food items or none at all!

So that's the goal, especially if one wants to do this as naturally as possible and doesn't like avoiding "so many foods" (that's relative). So if you want to go this route, the above methods are what you need to look into. You can use the zantac, but again just know that if you aren't a true Histadelic (histamine hypersensitive) than taking this to suppress a part of your immune system, may compromise your immune system so that you don't fight something as easily as you once would have. Furthermore, if you suspect that you do have LGS and you opt to only take the Zantac and cease dietary changes than you aren't only suppressing the inflammatory response but you may be hiding from yourself, some other health/metabolic condition, because you don't have to see or feel it anymore, does that make sense?

I guess another way for me to explain the above is to say that most skin conditions are a sign of something imbalanced, irritating, or "not quite right" in our external or internal (body) environment. If people take things that aren't meant for them it may or may not work for them, but ultimately it won't help them figure out the true cause of their acne. For those that don't figure out the true cause, they may find that they also have a host of other health or metabolic problems later in life (acne was possibly a warning sign...not everyone is as lucky). I personally don't know if I'm going to prevent other conditions, but I do know that the decisions that I make regarding my diet & other lifesyle factors does influence my risk (increases or decreases) for certain conditions and I use my skin (and other symptoms) to judge how well I'm treating myself.

LOL, and as for your fun with beer, what did you learn? Beer is made from Gluten (wheat, barely rye) grains right? Well try drinking other alcohols that aren't made from foods/ingredients you are avoiding and see if you have better luck. I know vodka is made from potatoes ;-) Actually somewhere around here is a gluten-free list of alcohols, although since (grain) alcohol is a fermented product you may not like any of them (but that's another theory), maybe that will help some. Otherwise, I will say that the amount of time it took for you to break out sounds about right. It wasn't something you're allergic to, but hypersenstive to in another way. Once your skin improves further, you'll be able to determine what foods affect you because you'll find that you will or won't break out within a certain time frame. Most sufferers don't understand this, but usually one has to hit a level of skin clarity before an obvious pattern can be detected.

Wish you the best

P.S. Do you want to go off zantac in a few weeks to test?

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wow thanks for the reply sweetjade! will have to re-read tomorrow when i am not as tired!

I do intend to get as clear as i can and then go off zantac to see if its helping. I dont know if you saw my other post but B5...........shall i quit it or keep taking it??? I just cant tell lol

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I was just wondering, what is everyone's current state with acne?

SweetJade, I see you've been advocating leaky gut as a cause for a long time now. Have you benefitted from treating yourself against this? If so, are you clear? Just wondering, because a lot of people have a lot of theories, but results are what matter.

I for one had a bunch of theories about acne, whether diet mattered, homeopathic medicines, etc. Nobody did ever notice a difference in my acne problem regardless of what theory I was trying at any one time.

At the moment, I have same acne problem I had 3 years ago. About 6 pimples on the face at any time. Not horrendous, but annoying. Hope to hear from everyone else.

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I was just wondering, what is everyone's current state with acne?

SweetJade, I see you've been advocating leaky gut as a cause for a long time now. Have you benefitted from treating yourself against this? If so, are you clear? Just wondering, because a lot of people have a lot of theories, but results are what matter.

I for one had a bunch of theories about acne, whether diet mattered, homeopathic medicines, etc. Nobody did ever notice a difference in my acne problem regardless of what theory I was trying at any one time.

At the moment, I have same acne problem I had 3 years ago. About 6 pimples on the face at any time. Not horrendous, but annoying. Hope to hear from everyone else.

I'm currently playing around with treating my leaky gut but due to fear of detox reactions I won't be doing anything major until winter break ;-) I am however taking coconut oil (not daily anymore got tired of the taste) and 1 GNC Olive Leaf Capsule a day. I bought myself a bottle of GNC Oregeno Oil also but I heard that stuff is really strong so I haven't tried it out. I would have gone with other brands but where I work we are currently working in a moldy environment (some penicillin species) and so I purchased those in hopes of treating/preventing any associated problems. I'm also taking Vitamin C, Biotin, Selenium, Molybdenum and so other supplements that work as either anti-microbes or detoxifiers in case I actually do have leaky gut induced by intestinal candida ;-) Again, it's gets to be a bit sporadic for me because this stuff costs and I'm not a fan of popping pills (some are water-soluble powders).

Lately I have been advocating healing your leaky gut because I do feel that based on my own personal drug and lifestyle history and based on certain foods that I'm avoiding (appear not to be insulin spikining) that it is a possibilitiy for me. Also, I've known some members that have found success with treating this for years and I know what they've tried and how far they've come and so I can't not mention it to someone just because I have yet to find personal success in it (cuz I haven't done much yet). Afterall, it could be the difference between one attempting the natural method and not doing so, considering that most people don't believe they should HAVE to avoid foods and, theorectically, healing the leaky gut means that you shouldn't have to. In theory, if Leaky Gut is the problem, then after a period of time, one shouldn't have to avoid (as many) foods as avoidance is just one other method of controlling the problem, but not actually FIXING the problem and it's advocated by various members of this board and more information can be found at CureZone or AskShelley.

Furthermore, if you have a food hypersensitivity, usually the only way this can happen is if there has been a breach in your intestinal lining. Knowing that means that yes you can avoid a few foods if this makes you happy, but if you find that you are avoiding more than a few or you find that it's too stressful, this would be the alternative and apparently the better approach. Topicals & Oral Drugs are like the Treat the Symptom/Band-Aid Methods. Avoiding your Irritants/Triggers are your Controlling or Preventative Methods. FIXING the problem, in this case healing the Leaky Gut (detox, cleanse, flush, Supps), is the actual Cure. That's just a thought based on food hypersensitivies, if one's acne doesn't have anything to do with this, but still involves food I don't know if it would work. A good example of one would be Hypothyroidism, members have found that certain foods are Goitrogenic (inhibits ability to produce thyroxine) and as such if they avoid these foods their acne and thyroid conditions improves.

Of course there's the mystery of Insulin Resistance Syndrome ;-) From what you've mentioned I'm guessing you feel this is your problem and I know it's certainly mine. Yet I don't avoid foods that are only insulinotropic (insulin spiking/stimulating), I also happen to be avoiding foods that fall on the top food allergen/intolerant lists! So I can explain some of my reasons for why I avoid certain foods, but not all of them, unless I fall back on the Food Hypersensitivity theory. In fact one of the signs of a hypersensitivity is inflammation and Insulin Resistance Syndrome is now being thought of as a Chronic Long Term Silent Low-Grade Subclinical Inflammatory Disease (had to throw all those words in)!

With that thought, a good way to get inflammation is to do something that really irritates some part of your body and one author http://www.epc-odx.com falls back on the theory that it is food hypersentivities (my guess is a Type IV Hypersenstivity) that's creating this inflammation. That this hypersensitivy was a result of large food particles being introduced into the blood through a breach in the intestinal lining (should NEVER happen)! All I can say is that on this board here http://www.pcosliving.com/forums/ the men and women are seeing phenomonal results just as myself and other members had great results eliminating foods that were EXCLUSIVE to us (but may work for others). When I consume something that doesn't fall into the Insulin Resistance theory, but does fall into the Food Hypersensitivity theory oh my do I ever get inflammation! The painful, stubborn sometimes larger than normal (pre-diet changes) nodular/cystic acne that I get will last for weeks (instead of 1 - 2 weeks) when I eat something that my body doesn't particularly favor (even if it does taste good). When I read the books by the author on the EPC website, I realized that even if you don't feel this inflammation and even if other people aren't as fortunate enough to have an external indicatior (i.e. acne) that unless they make certain changes in their life they may end up with some very serious problems later on. I honestlywouldn't want that for anyone, especially on this board, so I mention both options: Food Avoidance and if they are ready to go the next step or just skip right to it, heal their Leaky Gut.

As for my current condition, no I am not clear at the moment (I'm 99%+). Unfortunately I'm taking nutrition courses where it's more food science at the moment and I have to evaluate foods based on the ingredients used and the various cooking methods/utensils that are used to make them with (kinda fascinating and boring). So I have to taste foods that have ingredients that my body doesn't favor, but I'm lucky in that usually I have options in what foods I can taste and so I pick the lessor of the least favored (what usually doesn't produce cysts) and sometimes, if I can get around it I'll just use someone elses answers when it comes to evaluating the flavor of foods. I will say though that I did hit the 100% mark and it was through me cooking my own meals and eating only foods that I've already tried before and know the ingredients are safe (when eating out). However what I learned when I went to Vegas and had to eat foods that were more of suspect was that I would get a thickening in my throat (remember the mucous theory?) when I would eat something that probably had an ingredient my body didn't like. This was something that also happened whenever I had to consume (I took the least amount neccessary) products that had milk in my nutrition classes. Sure enough a few days later I broke out a wee bit, but I try to offset it by taking ALA so maybe it would have been worse than getting 1 - 2 zits otherwise. But in vegas I did develop a few pustules (in 2- 3 days), and more enlarged pores (the skin looked puffy) and 3 cysts as a result a week later (that how long it takes for those) and some tiny acne-like rash on my lower arm that I get very sporadically and I've yet to pinpoint what it could be, but I do know that it happens if I'm eating out alot (contamination issues).

That's my current story, sorry ;-) What about you though, what have you done or not done (if that's a shorter list)?

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The OP for that post (kkpb7825), is actually a member on this board too, but almost never posts. We actually found each other here and kept in touch after posting on that website. I participated in that thread also, and like kkpb7825, our accounts both got banned because the moderators wrongly thought we were trying to advertise some products by posting links. '

I am taking perilla seed extract, instead of Zantac, as a natural way of balancing TH2 and Th1. I don't see much improvements in the 2 months or so I've been taking it. I'm going to try to stick to it and see if any positive results arise.

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Some people were having pretty good results with Zantac. kkpb actually said he was totally clear at one point without need for benzoyl peroxide. In my opinion, if that actually works, maybe doing 2 weeks of Zantac, and 2 weeks off Zantac would be a good solution. Hell it's better than blasting our faces with BP, which has its own risks.

SweetJade,

I am 21 years old, and I've had acne since 13. I have tried a lot of things in my life and here's what I've found:

- BP 10% Wash, BP 4% gel, and Lavender oil work the best for me.

- Currently evaluating Soap Doctor and Zantac method.

- Tried Acne Pill for 6 months and for a while it looked like it was working. I could eat anything like pizza and chinese food without any breakouts. Then it just stopped working since I believe my body got used to something in the product. So I stopped taking it.

- What didn't work was Differing, Benzamycin, Cod liver oil, Chromium, Vitamin A, Betacarotene, Ginseng, Ginkgo (took to get better marks.. that didn't work :)), Vit C.

- Also, I tried the diet with veggies, fruits, and lean meat, and that didn't help much either. My dad used to get pissed cuz he'd make potatoes, then I wouldn't eat them. But even eating lean still gaveme breakouts.

- Interestingly, I notice that when I drink lots of booze I get cleared up. Staying up late however gives me acne.

Well anyway, that's my story :) I'll post more if I get any results.

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Some people were having pretty good results with Zantac. kkpb actually said he was totally clear at one point without need for benzoyl peroxide. In my opinion, if that actually works, maybe doing 2 weeks of Zantac, and 2 weeks off Zantac would be a good solution. Hell it's better than blasting our faces with BP, which has its own risks.

SweetJade,

I am 21 years old, and I've had acne since 13. I have tried a lot of things in my life and here's what I've found:

- BP 10% Wash, BP 4% gel, and Lavender oil work the best for me.

- Currently evaluating Soap Doctor and Zantac method.

- Tried Acne Pill for 6 months and for a while it looked like it was working. I could eat anything like pizza and chinese food without any breakouts. Then it just stopped working since I believe my body got used to something in the product. So I stopped taking it.

- What didn't work was Differing, Benzamycin, Cod liver oil, Chromium, Vitamin A, Betacarotene, Ginseng, Ginkgo (took to get better marks.. that didn't work :)), Vit C.

- Also, I tried the diet with veggies, fruits, and lean meat, and that didn't help much either. My dad used to get pissed cuz he'd make potatoes, then I wouldn't eat them. But even eating lean still gaveme breakouts.

- Interestingly, I notice that when I drink lots of booze I get cleared up. Staying up late however gives me acne.

Well anyway, that's my story :) I'll post more if I get any results.

Well perhaps you are a candidate for Zantac and then natural forms of this later then! ;-) If you are a histadelic (it seems like there is some sort of problem based on how long you've had acne), certain fruits and vegetables would be off limits, so perhaps that's why no success witht the vegetarian diet. I will say that with KKPB and Tannoyred, both of them were on Zantac and when they ate a particular food found that they still broke out, so for them diet matters also. Whereas, some others on the Acne Theory thread are finding that only the Zantac matters, so hopefully you'll figure out what works best for you.

Best of luck

P.S. If you find that after a few weeks the Zantac isn't working then perhaps you should consider seeing an Endocrinologist (since acne still runs in the family?) to get some labwork done to rule out any possible thyroid or adrenal abnormalities, among others.

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i made my mom get off of zantac. she takes acv instead. if she got more time id have made her do the longer one time holistic approach to totally cure heartburn

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SweetJade,

Just a quick comment on oregano oil. I have been using it for some time.

You're right that oregano oil is difficult to take, b/c it is rather strong and pungent. Mine comes suspended in hemp oil. I happened to have some hemp oil in the fridge already, so I usually take the oregano oil by dripping it onto a spoon, then filling the spoon up w/ more straight hemp oil to dilute the strong flavor. Alternatively, you could do it in olive oil. Or if you want to take more of your VCO (even though you sound tired of it), you could warm a little up to liquid (e.g.: scoop some up into a spoon and hold briefly over a lit element on the stove ... don't burn yourself!), then add your drops of oregano oil.

Incidentally, a few weeks ago, I had a dental cleaning appointment. The hygienist sort of rammed around a bit in one area of my gums trying to dislodge some plaque, and it really irritated my gums there. Over the course of a couple of days on several occasions, I put a few drops of oregano oil on my tongue (holy fire!) and rubbed it into the gum area w/ my tongue, and it healed very nicely. Just another great use for OO!

Cheers, Roxy.

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BTW, I had already read that entire thread on delayed hypersensitivity as well and find the science fascinating.

I wish there could be some follow-up in that regard. It's difficult to assess it if it doesn't go beyond theory.

Roxy.

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Well, I am not sure what it is, but it's day 3 since I started taking the raniditine and my skin looks great today. Might be the Face Doctor soap, might be the pills. I'll be able to see over the next couple days.

How is everyone else doing with this if they've started it?

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I can't belive I'm one of only a few people trying this out, but it's day 5 now and my face has not been this clear in 4 weeks! I know it's still early to jump to conclusions, but it would be good to get more people trying to see if their acne is due to immune imbalances.

Things that this experiment may have helped with are: face and body acne, reducing hunger, improving energy, making me happier overall. In detail, face and body acne is less inflamed. Now I can eat only 3 meals a day and feel fine in between, whereas otherwise I'd get hungry even after 1 hour of eating! All that eating made me so sleepy. I also feel great and I'm a happy person. I don't know if I can attribute this to the Ranitidine yet, but people who have tried the experiment have reported similar results.

Lastly, as this diet helps mostly histadelics, I think I am a histadelic because:

- I am lean and can usually eat a lot without gaining much weight.

- I have mild allergies but not allergic to anything!

- I sneeze when in bright sunlight

- I have long fingers and they're thin.

Well, I'm continuing on this diet, and we'll see how things vary in the future.

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i've been trying this for 2 weeks BUT i was taking b5 up until 4 days ago........my face was covered in the most horrible acne since i was 14 and i am 29 now! i have stopped the b5 and am continuing with a decent diet (no wheat, dairy or sugar) and taking Zantac, Zinc and MSM. So far since i stopped the b5 no new zits. However i have so many inactive spots that are slowly going away its hard to tell really. i'll comment more later this week when the B5 mess has cleared more.

I can't believe i spent about 120 GPB on B5 to give myself the worst acne i have had in years for 6 weeks!

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