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Shyana: Is ester C better?

[/quot

No not for topical use. But as a supplement it is ok, just not my favorite C.

I forgot to say to everyone if using LA for topical, NOT to use it until the skin has decreased in swelling, tenderness etc. This should only be used 7-10 days after any treatments and for some even longer ie CO2 laser tx. If the epidermis is intact with its first layer then it is ok to use it. But again this will depend on the type of treatment done and the sensitivity of the person. You don't want to increase irritation at all in any post treatments. And for those who use retinoids(retin A, Tazorac, you can use LA with retinoids it works very well increasing collagen for remodeling scars after treatments) However retinoids can also induce more redness. The skin needs just a little stimulation so saturating the skin everyday with products is not needed.

For example retin A can be used every other night or 2-3 nights/week.

LA for treating redness every day and initial spraying several times/day as tolerated followed by hyaluronic acid or light moisturizer. sunscreen that is all. Once redness is subsiding then LA will stay in the skin up to2- 3 days once saturated if no sun exposure. So you see one can determine how to use products for one's skin type and procedure done . Too many products exhaust the skin and impair healing.

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Shyana: Is ester C better?

[/quot

No not for topical use. But as a supplement it is ok, just not my favorite C.

I forgot to say to everyone if using LA for topical, NOT to use it until the skin has decreased in swelling, tenderness etc. This should only be used 7-10 days after any treatments and for some even longer ie CO2 laser tx. If the epidermis is intact with its first layer then it is ok to use it. But again this will depend on the type of treatment done and the sensitivity of the person. You don't want to increase irritation at all in any post treatments. And for those who use retinoids(retin A, Tazorac, you can use LA with retinoids it works very well increasing collagen for remodeling scars after treatments) However retinoids can also induce more redness. The skin needs just a little stimulation so saturating the skin everyday with products is not needed.

For example retin A can be used every other night or 2-3 nights/week.

LA for treating redness every day and initial spraying several times/day as tolerated followed by hyaluronic acid or light moisturizer. sunscreen that is all. Once redness is subsiding then LA will stay in the skin up to2- 3 days once saturated if no sun exposure. So you see one can determine how to use products for one's skin type and procedure done . Too many products exhaust the skin and impair healing.

Yes, I learned the hard way of not applying copper peptides or LA for 7-10 days after my dermabrasion. It really stings! Shayna, what do you think of Skinceuticals vitamin c topical serum? I tried using it after my dermabrasion in conjuction with hyperbaric 02, and there didn't appear to be any deceleration of the redness comparing with other patients of similar skin type. I also read the study you mentioned from Dr. Kaminer, but it didn't really make a huge difference. The self-prepared LA is probably a lot cheaper. But would it be any more effective? It definitely wasn't worth the $100+ for the topical C+E serum to reduce redness IMO.

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does anyone know any dermatologists do the fraxel treatment for the scarring around frisco or plano.taxes ??????? plz plz please let me know because i couldn't find it

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Hi Kooky the study was from Dr. Tina Alster and Dr. Tina West in 1998. It was a small study and not very significant as far as sampling the population. I am not familiar with Dr. Kaminar's research here. Please enlighten me on this.

For skin healing and preventing scarring, increasing collagen,reducing erythema, pigment problems, it can do wonders esp. combined with all trans retinoic acid. How it works with scarring it helps regulate Calcium, for pigments disorders acts on melanin as well as uptakes iron depsoits causing pigments in the skin, for redness it is anti-inflammatory increasing capillary strength ,for collagen it stimulates fibroblasts, for antioxidants it reduces photodamage esp with E.

The study claimed after 8 weeks the redness subsided significantly from post Co2 laser in 22 subjects age range in 40's. It was the aqueous solution of LA at 3.5 pH that worked. They also used LA in cream base which had no effect. I am sure you can find this on PUB MED, I am just going from my notes from years ago.

My experience is it works great in water solution mixed daily and sprayed on several times/day followed with HA application post treatment redness etc.. Mixing it with a little d-tocopherol is also a great barrier protector and E works with LA for stability of the antioxidants. I have found the lower the pH the better for my skin and most non sensitive skins. I have thick oily skin and LA needs to be in lower pH's to penetrate the lipid barrier. My solution is 2.5 and 15-20%. My clients have used it in homemade formulas adding baking soda to a pH at 3.0-3.5. LA will not penetrate the skin if above 3.5pH and is best below this. Skinceuticals and Cellex C are way too expensive and become unstable within 6 months. Although they say a year hmmm. The new Skinceuticals is more stable. I have used all the C's out there except Cellularskin which is a good one I have heard and much cheaper. Homemade is more effective by far. There are many homemade recipes online if you do a search. I have extreme redness following peels, lasers and dermabrasion and it works for me. I am clear from redness in 3 months using my method when doing dermabrasion, 35%-100%(cross tx with 100%) TCA, and chemo-sandabrasions.(it used to be 9-12 months for my redness to subside) However I don't know how it does with phenol peels. Phenol is a severe chemical and added croton oil can really be worse than Post Co2 laser redness. I have been using LA in my own solution for about 5 years now and all I can say is I love it. The advantage is more stable because it is fresh and you can make any percent you need. The bottle of LA last forever, cheap.

Now for your post redness, sounds like you have had a severe histamine reaction(release). Other choices would be green tea, pine bark extract, niacinamide etc. If you are taking omegas 3 I would not do so. This can interfere with healing in some studies. Linoleic acid would be a good choice IMO. But try my method and let me know if it helps.

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I am considering having fraxel laser done sometime in the future, and i would like to thank all the people who have shared their stories and results. What can i expect after having one fraxel done? What kind of improvements did you notice? Also, can you give an approximate timeline of when you started to notice real improvement that didn't diminish bc of swelling? Thanks again.

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Shyana: Is ester C better?

[/quot

No not for topical use. But as a supplement it is ok, just not my favorite C.

I forgot to say to everyone if using LA for topical, NOT to use it until the skin has decreased in swelling, tenderness etc. This should only be used 7-10 days after any treatments and for some even longer ie CO2 laser tx. If the epidermis is intact with its first layer then it is ok to use it. But again this will depend on the type of treatment done and the sensitivity of the person. You don't want to increase irritation at all in any post treatments. And for those who use retinoids(retin A, Tazorac, you can use LA with retinoids it works very well increasing collagen for remodeling scars after treatments) However retinoids can also induce more redness. The skin needs just a little stimulation so saturating the skin everyday with products is not needed.

For example retin A can be used every other night or 2-3 nights/week.

LA for treating redness every day and initial spraying several times/day as tolerated followed by hyaluronic acid or light moisturizer. sunscreen that is all. Once redness is subsiding then LA will stay in the skin up to2- 3 days once saturated if no sun exposure. So you see one can determine how to use products for one's skin type and procedure done . Too many products exhaust the skin and impair healing.

Would Differin work as well as Retin-A ???

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does anyone know any dermatologists do the fraxel treatment for the scarring around frisco or plano.taxes ??????? plz plz please let me know because i couldn't find it

I live in Dallas, and unfortunately don't know of anyone who does fraxel for ACNE scarring (as opposed to texture, wrinkles, discoloration, etc. which is totally different in terms of settings & intervals, etc.). Most doctors use it for the abovementioned reasons. If I decide to go the fraxel route, I have 2 doctors in mind (who use it for acne scar reduction) that I plan to consult with; but neither are in Texas, unfortunately. If I find out anything I'll let you know....Good Luck!

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does anyone know any dermatologists do the fraxel treatment for the scarring around frisco or plano.taxes ??????? plz plz please let me know because i couldn't find it

I know one that does it in Dallas, and one in Fort Worth. I guess I'll give you the one in Dallas.

David Alkek is his name. http://alkek.com

that's his website

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does anyone know any dermatologists do the fraxel treatment for the scarring around frisco or plano.taxes ??????? plz plz please let me know because i couldn't find it

I know one that does it in Dallas, and one in Fort Worth. I guess I'll give you the one in Dallas.

David Alkek is his name. http://alkek.com

that's his website

Hey Kanmi! I hope you're well & drinking up that Toki! Dr. Alkek is & has been my dermatologist for over 10 years & I'm almost positive he doesn't use the fraxel for ACNE SCAR REDUCTION. Might want to call and ask, though. Remember: CAVEAT EMPTOR = BUYER BEWARE!!! Make absolutely sure that the settings/intervals are correct for the acne scarring, and not for superficial wrinkles & discoloration; TELL the doctor what settings you need for this & don't let him/her talk you into lower settings/less frequent intervals, etc. because fraxel settings for wrinkles & discoloration will not do squat in eliminating acne scars!

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thanks for both of you that rely ...hey kanmy i just went to the website alkek.com that you gave me ...i couldn't see anything about fraxel laser for scar on his site ...are you sure that he does the fraxel laser ...but one thing iam pretty sure iam not going to drive over way to fort worth if i do i must be really stupid...heheh :doh:

I know one that does it in Dallas, and one in Fort Worth. I guess I'll give you the one in Dallas.

David Alkek is his name. http://alkek.com

that's his website

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Shyana: Is ester C better?

[/quot

No not for topical use. But as a supplement it is ok, just not my favorite C.

I forgot to say to everyone if using LA for topical, NOT to use it until the skin has decreased in swelling, tenderness etc. This should only be used 7-10 days after any treatments and for some even longer ie CO2 laser tx. If the epidermis is intact with its first layer then it is ok to use it. But again this will depend on the type of treatment done and the sensitivity of the person. You don't want to increase irritation at all in any post treatments. And for those who use retinoids(retin A, Tazorac, you can use LA with retinoids it works very well increasing collagen for remodeling scars after treatments) However retinoids can also induce more redness. The skin needs just a little stimulation so saturating the skin everyday with products is not needed.

For example retin A can be used every other night or 2-3 nights/week.

LA for treating redness every day and initial spraying several times/day as tolerated followed by hyaluronic acid or light moisturizer. sunscreen that is all. Once redness is subsiding then LA will stay in the skin up to2- 3 days once saturated if no sun exposure. So you see one can determine how to use products for one's skin type and procedure done . Too many products exhaust the skin and impair healing.

Would Differin work as well as Retin-A ???

It is in the retinoid family great for acne but I am not sure about it building collagen, it would need to convert to all trans retinoic acid for that. You might want to read up on this. Differin is a great product for acne with less irritation as you find in using Retin A.

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Hi ! Pinky_Pinenut and Floridayguy and everyone in fraxel treatment forum.

I am a new member, I have read the messages here for quite a while, looking forward to hearing good news from you guys that " fraxel indeed works for scar" .

I have mainly pored scar, then some box scar and ice pick scar, my face is rough as i have big pores, it looks like orange skin. Have been looking for treatment can safely improve my pore and scar by at least 50% as the big pores and scar really bothers me, I mean psychologically I suffer a lot . ( will try to post my photo in next two days, your comment are welcome)

I have seen some doctors here, they give different kind of advices, one recommended Erbium, one said Thermage, another doctor here advised to do Cooltouch cum Microderma, they claimed that I will have at least 40%-70% improvement. One of them even said that the effect of Cooltouch is same as Fraxel, and quarterly/ half-yearly maintanance may not be needed for Cooltouch subsequent to treatments depends on individual condition ( I doubt it, I have read somewhere here says that 3 months after the last treatment of Cooltouch, the improvement disappeared-money goes down drain)

And I learned about fraxel lately, quite keen to get this treatment, however, I want to be quite sure b4 I commit my money and I don't want to be disappointed. Hence, I am here, hope can learn from your experience and would appreciate your help and inputs .

Pinky-pinenut, I may to go the same doctor you have been seeing, Sloane Clinic, ( I have to take flight to S'pore to get the treatments) if I decide to get fraxel treatment.

Would appreicate if you can let me know whether the doctor in Slone have told you the estimated minimum improvement you can get, do you or ANYONE here know whether fraxel helps on big pores ( Floridaguy- you did mention your pores improved after fraxel, how much does it improve? %?), does yearly maintainance needed subsequent to last treatment ( I am afraid if it is needed and i don't do it, the improvement will go back to square one)?

Pinky, Please update us your condition ( know that you just have your 2nd treatment), hope to get good news from you.

I tried IPL and some chemical peeling and microderma before, to my disappointment, I do not see even 10% improvement, basically they are just improvement in texture.

I am willing to put up down time for about 2 weeks and extra care subsequent to treatments, don't mind about pain arising from the treatment, travel to get treatment, willing to spend as well so long it is effective ( I want to see at least 40-50% improvement) with minimum complication (i.e. permanent pigmentation) and i don't mind to have maintainance regularly (provided it is not too costly, such as fraxel treatment ( if needed)- once a year maintainance is acceptable to me). I guess if I can reduce my pore size a lot (and preferably coupled with 50% improvement on scar), I would be quite happy as I think my face will look smoother overall with my pore size substantially reduced--I am not looking for 100% improvement on scar as it is not feasible.

Other than fraxel, anyone here know/can recommend any other type of treatments that fit my above requirement and my conditions, please give your inputs, I would appreciate that very much.

One more thing, does any one know whether one shouldget punch/excision/subcision/filler injection done b4 fraxel or the other way rpund, in other words, fraxel first.

Can some one comment on Cooltouch and Exoderm ( intense chemical peel-not sure the name of the treatment is correct) as well in term of effective on scar reduction?

Thank you. Happy New Year.

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does anyone know any dermatologists do the fraxel treatment for the scarring around frisco or plano.taxes ??????? plz plz please let me know because i couldn't find it

I know one that does it in Dallas, and one in Fort Worth. I guess I'll give you the one in Dallas.

David Alkek is his name. http://alkek.com

that's his website

Hey Kanmi! I hope you're well & drinking up that Toki! Dr. Alkek is & has been my dermatologist for over 10 years & I'm almost positive he doesn't use the fraxel for ACNE SCAR REDUCTION. Might want to call and ask, though. Remember: CAVEAT EMPTOR = BUYER BEWARE!!! Make absolutely sure that the settings/intervals are correct for the acne scarring, and not for superficial wrinkles & discoloration; TELL the doctor what settings you need for this & don't let him/her talk you into lower settings/less frequent intervals, etc. because fraxel settings for wrinkles & discoloration will not do squat in eliminating acne scars!

I had to stop Toki, twice actually, so I don't think i'm going to try it anymore regretfully. First it was giving me violent stomach aches, and then it started making me break out really bad and I noticed my skin clearing up as soon as I stopped it. I could have sworn Dr Alkek told me he did fraxel. Well, I know for a fact my dermatologist James Bond in Fort Worth does.

I just don't know what to do about my scars anymore. :wall: There are too many different things. And all have risks I don't want to take.

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Happy new year to YOU! I have to say since I had both Cooltouch and Fraxel laser treatments that Fraxel is VASTLY superior to Cool Touch. I felt cool TOuch was a waste of time and money after 4 cool touch treatments I would rate my over all scar improvement to be under 10%. After 5 Fraxel Treatments I would say my Improvement is 30% for my worst scars and 40-50% for the more moderate scars.

When you include the dramatic improvment to skin tone and texture (and even pore size)

Fraxel beats Cooltouch hands down. THere are down sides to Fraxel as it is more expensive then Cooltouch and has some down time (You will be very red for a weekend) Also Cooltouch was painless and Fraxel will give you a burning sensation that is tolerable but not pleasant. Even with the downsides I would do Fraxel again with out a moments hesitation and would NOT do cool touch even if it were free (I think it wasted my time and MONEY) Hope this helps. My poresize and complexion was a basket case before Fraxel

I had red areas and acne roseasia and blutchyness all over. Now my skin has an even healthy tone

and the pores are less noticable now. Check my out at www.laserskinsolutions.com

Go to Fraxel and click on before and after. I am the guy on the Right. You might note the sunken in area in my lower right chin. I am having some sculptra done starting next week to plump up my Lower chin and cheek areas. I hope fraxel plus sculptra may produce a dramatic long term improvement. I think you may need to to atleast one fraxel a year as a touch up. My improvements are stil holding steady 6 months after my last treatment.

Hi ! Pinky_Pinenut and Floridayguy and everyone in fraxel treatment forum.

I am a new member, I have read the messages here for quite a while, looking forward to hearing good news from you guys that " fraxel indeed works for scar" .

I have mainly pored scar, then some box scar and ice pick scar, my face is rough as i have big pores, it looks like orange skin. Have been looking for treatment can safely improve my pore and scar by at least 50% as the big pores and scar really bothers me, I mean psychologically I suffer a lot . ( will try to post my photo in next two days, your comment are welcome)

I have seen some doctors here, they give different kind of advices, one recommended Erbium, one said Thermage, another doctor here advised to do Cooltouch cum Microderma, they claimed that I will have at least 40%-70% improvement. One of them even said that the effect of Cooltouch is same as Fraxel, and quarterly/ half-yearly maintanance may not be needed for Cooltouch subsequent to treatments depends on individual condition ( I doubt it, I have read somewhere here says that 3 months after the last treatment of Cooltouch, the improvement disappeared-money goes down drain)

And I learned about fraxel lately, quite keen to get this treatment, however, I want to be quite sure b4 I commit my money and I don't want to be disappointed. Hence, I am here, hope can learn from your experience and would appreciate your help and inputs .

Pinky-pinenut, I may to go the same doctor you have been seeing, Sloane Clinic, ( I have to take flight to S'pore to get the treatments) if I decide to get fraxel treatment.

Would appreicate if you can let me know whether the doctor in Slone have told you the estimated minimum improvement you can get, do you or ANYONE here know whether fraxel helps on big pores ( Floridaguy- you did mention your pores improved after fraxel, how much does it improve? %?), does yearly maintainance needed subsequent to last treatment ( I am afraid if it is needed and i don't do it, the improvement will go back to square one)?

Pinky, Please update us your condition ( know that you just have your 2nd treatment), hope to get good news from you.

I tried IPL and some chemical peeling and microderma before, to my disappointment, I do not see even 10% improvement, basically they are just improvement in texture.

I am willing to put up down time for about 2 weeks and extra care subsequent to treatments, don't mind about pain arising from the treatment, travel to get treatment, willing to spend as well so long it is effective ( I want to see at least 40-50% improvement) with minimum complication (i.e. permanent pigmentation) and i don't mind to have maintainance regularly (provided it is not too costly, such as fraxel treatment ( if needed)- once a year maintainance is acceptable to me). I guess if I can reduce my pore size a lot (and preferably coupled with 50% improvement on scar), I would be quite happy as I think my face will look smoother overall with my pore size substantially reduced--I am not looking for 100% improvement on scar as it is not feasible.

Other than fraxel, anyone here know/can recommend any other type of treatments that fit my above requirement and my conditions, please give your inputs, I would appreciate that very much.

One more thing, does any one know whether one shouldget punch/excision/subcision/filler injection done b4 fraxel or the other way rpund, in other words, fraxel first.

Can some one comment on Cooltouch and Exoderm ( intense chemical peel-not sure the name of the treatment is correct) as well in term of effective on scar reduction?

Thank you. Happy New Year.

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Hi ! Pinky_Pinenut and Floridayguy and everyone in fraxel treatment forum.

I am a new member, I have read the messages here for quite a while, looking forward to hearing good news from you guys that " fraxel indeed works for scar" .

I have mainly pored scar, then some box scar and ice pick scar, my face is rough as i have big pores, it looks like orange skin. Have been looking for treatment can safely improve my pore and scar by at least 50% as the big pores and scar really bothers me, I mean psychologically I suffer a lot . ( will try to post my photo in next two days, your comment are welcome)

I have seen some doctors here, they give different kind of advices, one recommended Erbium, one said Thermage, another doctor here advised to do Cooltouch cum Microderma, they claimed that I will have at least 40%-70% improvement. One of them even said that the effect of Cooltouch is same as Fraxel, and quarterly/ half-yearly maintanance may not be needed for Cooltouch subsequent to treatments depends on individual condition ( I doubt it, I have read somewhere here says that 3 months after the last treatment of Cooltouch, the improvement disappeared-money goes down drain)

And I learned about fraxel lately, quite keen to get this treatment, however, I want to be quite sure b4 I commit my money and I don't want to be disappointed. Hence, I am here, hope can learn from your experience and would appreciate your help and inputs .

Pinky-pinenut, I may to go the same doctor you have been seeing, Sloane Clinic, ( I have to take flight to S'pore to get the treatments) if I decide to get fraxel treatment.

Would appreicate if you can let me know whether the doctor in Slone have told you the estimated minimum improvement you can get, do you or ANYONE here know whether fraxel helps on big pores ( Floridaguy- you did mention your pores improved after fraxel, how much does it improve? %?), does yearly maintainance needed subsequent to last treatment ( I am afraid if it is needed and i don't do it, the improvement will go back to square one)?

Pinky, Please update us your condition ( know that you just have your 2nd treatment), hope to get good news from you.

I tried IPL and some chemical peeling and microderma before, to my disappointment, I do not see even 10% improvement, basically they are just improvement in texture.

I am willing to put up down time for about 2 weeks and extra care subsequent to treatments, don't mind about pain arising from the treatment, travel to get treatment, willing to spend as well so long it is effective ( I want to see at least 40-50% improvement) with minimum complication (i.e. permanent pigmentation) and i don't mind to have maintainance regularly (provided it is not too costly, such as fraxel treatment ( if needed)- once a year maintainance is acceptable to me). I guess if I can reduce my pore size a lot (and preferably coupled with 50% improvement on scar), I would be quite happy as I think my face will look smoother overall with my pore size substantially reduced--I am not looking for 100% improvement on scar as it is not feasible.

Other than fraxel, anyone here know/can recommend any other type of treatments that fit my above requirement and my conditions, please give your inputs, I would appreciate that very much.

One more thing, does any one know whether one shouldget punch/excision/subcision/filler injection done b4 fraxel or the other way rpund, in other words, fraxel first.

Can some one comment on Cooltouch and Exoderm ( intense chemical peel-not sure the name of the treatment is correct) as well in term of effective on scar reduction?

Thank you. Happy New Year.

I think I am as rough as you had described, if not worse. I'm treating my acne scarring problem in that clinic. He did suggested expecting my improvement to be 70% after 5 treatment.

After my first treatment. THere is quite substatial improvement among my small and superficial scars but for the large box scars and ice pick scar seems still need some time to see the differences.

Anyway I really hope for more.. Hopefully I would see very significant improvement among the larger scars in the next few treatment.

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Does everyone peel after each fraxel treatment? The first one i did ALOT...2,3,4,5 just mostly flaking i guess...Is this normal? Or should i be peeling more?Usually done flaking after day 3...then maybe just a litttle bit after that...And does anyone have pinpoint bleeding? Iv heard some say yeah..But i hav'nt...thanx

Hey all!

I haven't posted for a while. It's been 10 days since my 2nd Fraxel treament and I didn't peel at all this time. For all those wondering if you should be peeling or not, the doc explained that it depends on the mj and density. For my 1st Fraxel, we started only at 8mjs at 250mtz/cm. He did 4 passes for a total of 1,000 mtz/cm. There was quite a lot of peeling like the kind you'd experience after a phenol/TCA peel.

This 2nd time round, we went up to 15mjs at 125mtz/cm, 4 passes for a total of 500mtz/cm. He explained that as the laser goes deeper (higher mjs), the area covered is less. I didn't peel but when I wiped my face, there were little black spots of ash which is basically your skin being burnt off. Fraxel is an ABLATIVE laser, like CO2 but without the downtime and potential scarring. I didn't have any pinpoint bleeding tho'.

My face is still kinda red after 10 days and in bright light, I look like I'm wearing some kinda mask. My cheeks still hurt a little when I'm washing my face. BUT I don't really see any improvement for my scarring, even with the swelling and in fact, the box scars on my left cheek looks wider than before! :(

BTW, it hurt like hell this 2nd time round, even with the zimmer cooling machine and the painkiller they gave me beforehand.

Keeping my fingers that this is not going to be like Smoothbeam..and just money down the drain!

Happy holidays y'all!

Pinky

Hi Pinky,

Did you feedback your skin condition to the doctor? How did he reply?

I think fraxel treatment cost a lot, he is responsible for your current skin conditions...

And don't bother too much==>happier==>faster healing==>better result

Wish you can see a dramatic improvement after 3rd treatment! :angel:

BoraBora

Hi Bora, thanks for your good wishes! :D

I did tell the doctor abt the redness, but this was 6 days after Fraxel and he said it would subside. He repeated what he said abt being able to see 70% improvement after 5 treatments. A coupla pple on the board who're also seeing him have PMed me...they're on their 4th /5th treatments and both of them were happy with their improvements. So I'm hanging in there and hoping to see better results after the 3rd!

I don't hold Dr Lee responsible for my skin condition tho'. I did quite a bit of research before I started Fraxel so I knew the risk of hyperpigmentation etc. It was a calculated risk I was willing to take after seeing no improvements from Smoothbeam or phenol/TCA peels. I just didn't know it'd hurt quite as much! :shock:

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Hi ! Pinky_Pinenut and Floridayguy and everyone in fraxel treatment forum.

I am a new member, I have read the messages here for quite a while, looking forward to hearing good news from you guys that " fraxel indeed works for scar" .

I have mainly pored scar, then some box scar and ice pick scar, my face is rough as i have big pores, it looks like orange skin. Have been looking for treatment can safely improve my pore and scar by at least 50% as the big pores and scar really bothers me, I mean psychologically I suffer a lot . ( will try to post my photo in next two days, your comment are welcome)

I have seen some doctors here, they give different kind of advices, one recommended Erbium, one said Thermage, another doctor here advised to do Cooltouch cum Microderma, they claimed that I will have at least 40%-70% improvement. One of them even said that the effect of Cooltouch is same as Fraxel, and quarterly/ half-yearly maintanance may not be needed for Cooltouch subsequent to treatments depends on individual condition ( I doubt it, I have read somewhere here says that 3 months after the last treatment of Cooltouch, the improvement disappeared-money goes down drain)

And I learned about fraxel lately, quite keen to get this treatment, however, I want to be quite sure b4 I commit my money and I don't want to be disappointed. Hence, I am here, hope can learn from your experience and would appreciate your help and inputs .

Pinky-pinenut, I may to go the same doctor you have been seeing, Sloane Clinic, ( I have to take flight to S'pore to get the treatments) if I decide to get fraxel treatment.

Would appreicate if you can let me know whether the doctor in Slone have told you the estimated minimum improvement you can get, do you or ANYONE here know whether fraxel helps on big pores ( Floridaguy- you did mention your pores improved after fraxel, how much does it improve? %?), does yearly maintainance needed subsequent to last treatment ( I am afraid if it is needed and i don't do it, the improvement will go back to square one)?

Pinky, Please update us your condition ( know that you just have your 2nd treatment), hope to get good news from you.

I tried IPL and some chemical peeling and microderma before, to my disappointment, I do not see even 10% improvement, basically they are just improvement in texture.

I am willing to put up down time for about 2 weeks and extra care subsequent to treatments, don't mind about pain arising from the treatment, travel to get treatment, willing to spend as well so long it is effective ( I want to see at least 40-50% improvement) with minimum complication (i.e. permanent pigmentation) and i don't mind to have maintainance regularly (provided it is not too costly, such as fraxel treatment ( if needed)- once a year maintainance is acceptable to me). I guess if I can reduce my pore size a lot (and preferably coupled with 50% improvement on scar), I would be quite happy as I think my face will look smoother overall with my pore size substantially reduced--I am not looking for 100% improvement on scar as it is not feasible.

Other than fraxel, anyone here know/can recommend any other type of treatments that fit my above requirement and my conditions, please give your inputs, I would appreciate that very much.

One more thing, does any one know whether one shouldget punch/excision/subcision/filler injection done b4 fraxel or the other way rpund, in other words, fraxel first.

Can some one comment on Cooltouch and Exoderm ( intense chemical peel-not sure the name of the treatment is correct) as well in term of effective on scar reduction?

Thank you. Happy New Year.

Hi alloutforit!

Welcome to the board and Happy New Year to you too! :D

Before I started Fraxel, I saw a few different doctors about scar treatment and had in the past already done Smoothbeam and pheonol/TCA peels.

I've been recommeneded Cooltouch and Thermage too by other doctors. But both are non-ablative lasers that work by targeting your collagen production from within. The theory is that as your skin produces more collagen, it'll tighten and make your scars less obvious. Just stand in front of a mirror and use your fingers to stretch the skin on your cheek and you'll see what I mean. It doesn't do anything for pores though and of course both treatments are not permanent so regular touch-ups are a must!

Thermage is incredibly expensive, even more so than Fraxel but supposedly requiring fewer treatments. Some pple on the board who've tried it have reported that it's given them a sunken appearance cuz it made their faces thinner. I asked Dr Lee at Sloane abt it since he also offers Thermage but he said none of his patients have experienced it. But the thing abt Thermage is that it's also used to treat cellulite!

Cooltouch and what I tried before, Smoothbeam, has mixed results. The doctor I asked abt CT was honest, he said only abt 1/3 of his patients are satisfied with their improvements after CT, but he considered that pretty good considering how difficult acne scarring is to treat. He then went on to recommend Titan! :rolleyes:

Ditto with Erbium - I saw a plastic surgeon abt it (its quite cheap if you get it done at the Singapor General Hospital). He told me he would treat me if I wanted, but there was a risk of hyperpigmentation and that not all his patients respond well to Erbium. Some report abt 40% improvement (maximum) while some see little or none.

I'm seeing a derm for my eczema who does something like punch floats for ice pick scarring mostly and combines it with something like IPL. (The Sloane Clinic doesn't do floats as far as I know). Some impressive improvements in the pictures of patients he showed me. I think if you do this, you'd need to get it done BEFORE fraxel.

I haven't seen much improvement in my scarring 16 days after my 2nd Fraxel except that mebbe the box-cars on my forehead seem to have shrunk. My cheeks are still reddish so that I look like I'm wearing some kinda mask on my cheeks. But I'm going to stick it out. Like I said in my previous post, 2 members of the Board who're going to Sloane are generally happy with their improvements after 4 /5 treaments so I'm hopeful! The doc mentioned abt 50-70% improvement and said the improvements are very noticeable for patients with that orange skin appearance.

Good luck with whatever you decide! PM me if you need any doctor's contact. I've tried quite a number of things and seen a few doctors so mebbe I can help! :)

BTW people out there - have any of you experienced an itching sensation on your face after a few drinks now that you've done Fraxel? My face was itching like mad after a few shots of vodka! Sheesh!

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Hi All,

I discovered this site just yesterday. I'm African American, 35 and have suffered from acne since age 10. I had cystic acne as a kid which has left me with scarring and discoloration. I've tried only antibiotic and topical treatments over the years, but with little success so I never sustain it. Also, the treatment options for darker complexions were very limited.

Two weeks ago I saw Vic Narurkar here in San Francisco. I'm tired of the scarring and want to do something about it. He put me on Retin A micro and Evoclin (clindamycin foam). I also had my first microdermabrasion (Silk Peel). He recommends a few microdermabrasions and then the Fraxel Laser. After reading the posts here, can anyone comment on my thoughts:

1) Are there other African Americans out there who have tried Fraxel? How many laser sessions and at what intervals have you done? Are the intervals set by your skin's rate of healing, your finances or the treatment regimen?

2) Should I even bother with the microdermabrasion sessions? His office charges $200 per session for micro.

3) Dr. Narurkar charges $1500 per Fraxel treatment. Pretty pricey. What are others paying? I think I'll need 5 treatments which will cost $7500 if he doesn't give me a discount. Is it worth that much?

4) I'm going to make an appointment with Dr. Berman in Palo Alto. Has anyone been to see him? Your thoughts, opinions? I'm interested in anyone's opinion of Dr. Narurkar here in San Francisco.

5) Someone wrote about the mjs of the Fraxel Laser. Where can I find literature on the recommended laser strength?

I'm really excited about the potential improvement in my skin and self-esteem, but I need to temper this excitement before I find myself out of $10K.

Thanks Everyone. This is a great forum. I will post photos in the gallery to chart my progress when/if I start Fraxel.

Stewie

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i need help. i had a subcision done 2 months ago and 1 Nlite afterwards. Instead going for my 2nd subcision i went ahead and went for my 1st fraxel treatment out of 5. i am to go back jan 16 for my 2nd fraxel. would it make a difference if i get a subcision and month later continue my 2nd fraxel treatment? the dr told me i be wasting my time and money for the subcision and that i dont need it done. To wait till i finish my 5th fraxel. The previous dr that i see for the subsicion reccomended me 3 treatments of fraxel instead this other dr reccomended 5 to treat whole face charging me $3000 for 5 when other dr charges me $4500 for 3. what should i do? does fraxel take away the pigments/red marks from acne scars? or what laser would be good for that. if i can get rid of the red marks that seem perm (wont go away ever) i wont have to wear foundation!! oh! btw. im not happy with my 1st treatment of fraxel. Not sure if its just cuz its my first one? but i didnt scrub my face... outch!! yeah i learned my lesson so hopefully my 2nd will makeup what i did to my skin. i didnt know how easily it was to add scars after the fraxel i notice dented scars from the subcision....so thats why im asking about fraxel vs subcision.

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i need help. i had a subcision done 2 months ago and 1 Nlite afterwards. Instead going for my 2nd subcision i went ahead and went for my 1st fraxel treatment out of 5. i am to go back jan 16 for my 2nd fraxel. would it make a difference if i get a subcision and month later continue my 2nd fraxel treatment? the dr told me i be wasting my time and money for the subcision and that i dont need it done. To wait till i finish my 5th fraxel. The previous dr that i see for the subsicion reccomended me 3 treatments of fraxel instead this other dr reccomended 5 to treat whole face charging me $3000 for 5 when other dr charges me $4500 for 3. what should i do? does fraxel take away the pigments/red marks from acne scars? or what laser would be good for that. if i can get rid of the red marks that seem perm (wont go away ever) i wont have to wear foundation!! oh! btw. im not happy with my 1st treatment of fraxel. Not sure if its just cuz its my first one? but i didnt scrub my face... outch!! yeah i learned my lesson so hopefully my 2nd will makeup what i did to my skin. i didnt know how easily it was to add scars after the fraxel i notice dented scars from the subcision....so thats why im asking about fraxel vs subcision.

I done subcsion before and it left me with a couple of new scars. Don't bother to do subcision. The fraxel should do just great. I believe.

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i need help. i had a subcision done 2 months ago and 1 Nlite afterwards. Instead going for my 2nd subcision i went ahead and went for my 1st fraxel treatment out of 5. i am to go back jan 16 for my 2nd fraxel. would it make a difference if i get a subcision and month later continue my 2nd fraxel treatment? the dr told me i be wasting my time and money for the subcision and that i dont need it done. To wait till i finish my 5th fraxel. The previous dr that i see for the subsicion reccomended me 3 treatments of fraxel instead this other dr reccomended 5 to treat whole face charging me $3000 for 5 when other dr charges me $4500 for 3. what should i do? does fraxel take away the pigments/red marks from acne scars? or what laser would be good for that. if i can get rid of the red marks that seem perm (wont go away ever) i wont have to wear foundation!! oh! btw. im not happy with my 1st treatment of fraxel. Not sure if its just cuz its my first one? but i didnt scrub my face... outch!! yeah i learned my lesson so hopefully my 2nd will makeup what i did to my skin. i didnt know how easily it was to add scars after the fraxel i notice dented scars from the subcision....so thats why im asking about fraxel vs subcision.

Hi twink,

Here's how I see it...subcision works really well for some people, especially if done by a skilled dermatoligc surgeon, and others it doesn't help their scars at all. It's a crapshoot, but for me personally it was THE BEST procedure I've had done for my deep rolling scars. You can go about it a couple of ways. Most doctors would probably recommend having subcision done before your fraxels. Both stimulate collagen in different manners but subcision is the more aggressive procedure specifically for deeper scars. You can do subcision after your fraxels but I would wait at least 3 months so you don't damage new collagen generated from the fraxels. One advantage if you have a lot of scarring is that the Fraxel treatments will hopefully mitigate a lot of your shallow scarring and the deeper scars remaining may be easier to isolate and target for subcision. Fraxel should help with hyperpigmentation, not sure about red marks from acne scars. And don't worry, my scars looked a bit worse after my first treatment. But I am noticing improvement a month out from my last treatment. I'm going for #3 this week and hoping I see further improvement!

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so u had your subcision done before fraxel? it wouldnt make a difference if i get subcision done before or after fraxels? i was thinking getting subcision wait 1 month untill i go on the fraxels. im not patient. fraxel are apart 1 month but i might ask the dr to fasten it up by 2 weeks apart like the dr who would perform my subcision planned. though the dr who does subcision ask me to wait 2 months after subcision b4 fraxels...would it hurt if i just wait 1 month b4 fraxel? post this all to your dr and let me know what he says...thanks

it looks like the fraxel damages my previous collagen from the subcision. i didnt see the tents from the tools he used to perform subcision untill after i had my fraxel. not sure if its cuz fraxe; repaired what the subcision tried healing. thats why im worried and need to know which direction to go with the fraxel VS subcision. i dont wana damage or cause me more time & money. i got till june to complete it all. cant waste no more time

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so u had your subcision done before fraxel? it wouldnt make a difference if i get subcision done before or after fraxels? i was thinking getting subcision wait 1 month untill i go on the fraxels. im not patient. fraxel are apart 1 month but i might ask the dr to fasten it up by 2 weeks apart like the dr who would perform my subcision planned. though the dr who does subcision ask me to wait 2 months after subcision b4 fraxels...would it hurt if i just wait 1 month b4 fraxel? post this all to your dr and let me know what he says...thanks

it looks like the fraxel damages my previous collagen from the subcision. i didnt see the tents from the tools he used to perform subcision untill after i had my fraxel. not sure if its cuz fraxe; repaired what the subcision tried healing. thats why im worried and need to know which direction to go with the fraxel VS subcision. i dont wana damage or cause me more time & money. i got till june to complete it all. cant waste no more time

I had my subcision done about 6 months prior to my fraxel treatments.

As for the ideal timeframe between subcision and Fraxel, it depends on which doctor you talk to. There seems to varying opinions on this subject. The doctor who performed my subcision advised I wait at least 3 months before any laser treatments including Fraxel. The doctor who performs my Fraxel treatments on the other hand, wanted me to do subcision and Fraxel on the same day. I think you'll be allright having subcision and then fraxel one month later, but that's just an educated guess on my part.

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Pinky_Pinenut - :angel: Again, thanks for the information. I will be very happy to hear from you that you have at least 50% improvement after you complete the whole treatments. By the way, who are the two members who went to Sloane to get fraxel treatments, I would like to read their posts again. Have you done or heard about needling treatment or Roll-cit? Can you comment on them. do you know anyone ( preferably is a doctor) offer that sort of treatment in Singapore or South East Asia? I read the topic on this Board, it sound like it works very well with all types of scar and it is inexpensive, it is one of tattoo methods. one of the questions I have for this tattoo method is whether it is suitable for Asian skin type ( e.g. may cause pigmentation). Just like to confirm that Sloane does not perform subcision or other punch method for scar ? how about filler? do they do that for patients? I suppose I have to do needling first before going for fraxel, right?

Everyone out there- :think: have any one of you tried needling before?if so, would definitely appreciate your share of experience/opinion/ recommendation/any information /answer on the treatment or questions in relation to the treatment which I posted to Pinky as above. How about compare needling to fraxel? I did opt for posting my questions at the topic thread ( i.e. needling) as I would like know whether needling have failed some of people here, hence, looking for other treatments such as fraxel.

Sincerely wish everyone here to have satisfactory treatments on scars, those success ones, do share your experience here to benefit us, i suppose every one here agree that if it works and it helps to get back our self esteem, our confidence, ...our life back etc..

Thanks in advance for inputs.

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hey stewie,

there are mixed reviews concerning dr. berman. his website is indeed impressive, yet if you do a search on this site, you will find varying opinions. i had a consultation at the berman skin institute regarding fraxel and it was entirely with one of his assistants (the one who would be administering the fraxel treatments). dr. vic is overcharging, in my opinion. berman offers a 4 treatment package for $3800 v. $1500 each tx. anyways, in the end, i have decided to go to marin county to have the procedures done (dr. miguel delgado). his staff, including himself, has impressed me and won me over. even though he offers no package discount, i like the idea of purchasing the fraxel treatments without having to commit to 4 or 5 upfront. i realize that fraxel 'works' when one undergoes a series of treatments; however, i cannot predict matters such as downtime, pain, efficacy, etc...so paying for individual treatments makes sense to me...i have mild scars and fine lines. its possible that i wont need more than 3 treatments. considering that 3 of the plastic surgeons i consulted with told me 3 different answers (opinions ranging from 3 - 6 treatments), i would like to have some say over the progress of my results!

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