Louis 0 Share Posted June 5, 2003 I'm beginning to have my doubts about needling... 1) I've yet to see any results from self-needling. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but I'm using the same technique everyone else claims too. 2)I've yet to see any impressive before/after needling pics from a poster on this board. In the one pic I've seen, the scar looked exactly the same in the before and after. 3) The only physician that I've seen who is a proponent of this technique is the inventor, some South African doctor. I don't know if you guys have seen pics of South Africa on the news, but it looks like the third world over there. I find it kind of hard to believe that "groundbreaking" cosmetic techniques are coming out of that place... Not only that, but just look at the "Roll-cit" device invented and recommended by this doctor. This "medical device" is basically a roller full of needles. Are you kidding me? Oh well, this post is only my opinion. What do you guys think? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Denise2 1 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Did you read the needling thread? Do you realize that you are using one needle in your scar and that a tattoo gun uses 5, and that they are much more aggressive than anything you could possibly do with your hand? Sorry to say, but I've had nothing short of a miracle on all kinds of scars with needling (tattoo gun, not a hand tool), as have many people. You also should be using a collagen stimulating topical as well. Sorry, but I don't think that self needling will yield much improvement compared to a tattoo gun. As for "one doctor in South Africa", that's not true. There are places all over the U.S. who are using this method, including places that do this on acne scars specifically; in San Francisco, as well as other places in England, New York, etc...... If you aren't having that much success, I'm not all that surprised. Although a dude on the needling thread (I think Patrick) has some before and after pictures of his self needling, and there is obvious improvement. As for me, the lady who did my needling took a picture with her digital camera; I didn't even think about it until after she took my "before" picture to do it myself. I'm not trying to deceive anyone, but report what is happening in my own life and if it helps someone else, well, thank God for that. I had read a LOT of people who had a lot of success with needling before I decided to do it. And I'm very glad I did. Very glad indeed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Louis 0 Author Share Posted June 5, 2003 Did you read the needling thread?Yes, and I've read all the positive comments.But unfortunately many of us want to believe something is helping our scars, so we convince our self that it IS helping even when its not. I've done this myself several times.Do you realize that you are using one needle in your scar and that a tattoo gun uses 5, and that they are much more aggressive than anything you could possibly do with your hand?Yes, but many people have reported "great results" with self-needling. I'm just not seeing any...As for "one doctor in South Africa", that's not true. There are places all over the U.S. who are using this method, including places that do this on acne scars specifically; in San Francisco, as well as other places in England, New York, etc......?Note: I said that the doc in South Africa is the only PHYSICIAN performing needling. If needling is such a breakthrough in scar treatment, then why is it that only tattoo and permanent make-up artists are doing it? Wouldn't dermatologists and plastic surgeons being doing it, too?If you aren't having that much success, I'm not all that surprised. Although a dude on the needling thread (I think Patrick) has some before and after pictures of his self needling, and there is obvious improvement. See, this is my point. I disagree. To me, Patrick's scars look exactly the same in both pictures.I'm not trying to deceive anyone, but report what is happening in my own life and if it helps someone else, well, thank God for that. I had read a LOT of people who had a lot of success with needling before I decided to do it. And I'm very glad I did. Very glad indeed.Don't get me wrong, Denise, I'm not trying to accuse anyone of anything. If needling were working for me, I would certainly keep doing it regardless of what anyone had to say about it. I'm just stating my opinion and I realize that I could be right, I could be wrong. The scientific merit of needling just seems a bit suspect to me... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lupe1 0 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Yes, I have gotten some good results with self-needling. I only have about 5-6 scars, so I don't see the benefit of a tattoo gun. I just hit each scar 5-10 times with a 30G syringe. I can hear the scar tissue popping. I then use CP serum on the scars. I've done it 2 times now, and plan on a third session next week. Its hard to tell exactly what my improvement is, but there is definitely an improvement, probably 30-40%. My scars are moderate. You can only see them straight under light or at an angle. My scars are also 15+ yrs old. Maybe needling on works on certain types of scars? I don't know. But I do know this for sure, I've had more improvement with self-needling than I did with laser surgery. Please tell us exactly how you did your self-needling and your after-care, maybe you did something wrong? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Louis 0 Author Share Posted June 5, 2003 mrstupor: I was trying needling on a newer scar, so maybe that's my problem. Anyway, heres how I do it. Using a 30 gauge insulin syringe I needle pretty deeply, only inside the scar area, about five times. Then I wash the wound with soap and water, then rinse it with either alcohol or peroxide. Over the next few days a scab forms, then, in a week, falls off. Thats pretty much it. I go pretty deep, definitely all the way through the scar tissue, but I've never heard "popping". Do you mean an actual audible sound? On one occasion, I kept the wound constantly coated with Neosporin so that a scab never formed. I think the results might have been better for me doing it this way. Healing time was certainly shorter and I thought I might have noticed a VERY slight improvement, however I wrote this off as imagination. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lupe1 0 Share Posted June 5, 2003 yes, you can actually hear the scar tissue pop. pretty freaky. i don't know if needling works better on older scars, but i thought i heard that somewhere. but sounds like you are doing it similar to the way i do it, but i really never get scabs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MaryTheres 0 Share Posted June 5, 2003 I hate to say this but I also couldn't see any difference btween Patrick's before and after pics... # sorry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Denise2 1 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Quote: Note: I said that the doc in South Africa is the only PHYSICIAN performing needling. If needling is such a breakthrough in scar treatment, then why is it that only tattoo and permanent make-up artists are doing it? Wouldn't dermatologists and plastic surgeons being doing it, too? Denise: 1. They have never heard of the procedure 2. They would lose mega buckoo bucks if they stopped charging for procedures that are way more expensive and started charging $100-200 a pop for a needling procedure. 3. If I had not gotten on the internet and exhaustively researched acne scars treatments, I would never have heard of this myself. Keep in mind that when you research acne scars, needling isn't listed as a solution. You only find out about it when you hit message boards. Regarding Patrick's pictures....I'm not too sure why you are saying that there is NO improvement. There is obvious improvement. This reminds me of a guy who had subcision and N-lite treatments and put up his before and after pictures and he had one rather large and deep scar that literally filled in all the way and everyone was like: WOW!!! That large scar is totally gone. Then, this guy comes on and goes: What are you people talking about? That's only about 20% improvement max. We were all left scratching our heads....... :-k :-s Oh well; all I can tell you is that I've tried many things from V-Beam, TCA peel, microderm, etc....and this has literally filled in to skin level, quite a few scars on my face. No exaggeration here at all. I have no reason to lie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Louis 0 Author Share Posted June 6, 2003 mrstupor: What kind of syringes are you using? I'm using "BD Ultra Fine II" 30 gauge. BTW, if anyone else is using these syringes and bought them in a 100 box... Was your box shrink-wrapped? Mine wasn't, although the syringes were sealed in plastic bags, each bag containing ten syringes. But, even though I ordered the syringes from a reputable online pharmacy, the paranoid side of me is wondering if the actual box should have been shrink-wrapped, too... :-k Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lupe1 0 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Louis, I have the same needles as you. And each 10 is individually packaged and the box was not sealed, same as you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Louis 0 Author Share Posted June 7, 2003 Thanks. I was a little worried about the box not being shrink-wrapped. I just tried needling again yesterday. This time I tried stretching the skin out before needling it. Maybe I'll have better results this time. I still don't think needling works... but I've never wanted to be wrong about anything more in my life Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lupe1 0 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Louis, I do have a few scars that have not responded well to needling, but about 3/4 of them have responded very well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
not2bad 0 Share Posted June 11, 2003 hey after doing the needling is it normal for your skin to feel a little rough. Would that mean that it is developing a scab even if it does not look like a scab ....it's been two days since my needling and the skin over that area feels rough plus there is hardly anymore redness but it looks a little purple kinda like a bruise but not too noticeable ...some of my acne marks before the needling looked that color so it could just be that. Any suggestions as to what I could do for the rough skin I heard that if you scrub a little too hard your scars may become indented all over again so far my indented scars look better much better but my skin feels rough.HELP!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imbue 0 Share Posted June 12, 2003 There are places all over the U.S. who are using this method, including places that do this on acne scars specifically; in San Francisco, as well as other places in England, New York, etc...... Hi Denise2,Do you know of anyone doing needling in the NY, NJ or CT area?Another reason DRs may not be doing needling is if there haven’t been scientific studies done their malpractice may not cover such a procedure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Honolulu_Baby 0 Share Posted December 13, 2003 If any of you are interested in finding a doctor who performs needling using Dr. Fernandes' method, go the www.environ.co.za and email him. He answered my email, and referred me to a doctor in Beverly Hills, who in turn gave me the name of my dermatologist here in Hawaii who does the needling technique. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
