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stefany

Just had CROSS treatment using 100% TCA!

Hi, Jasmine. Can I ask how you did cross? Did you use a toothpick and just rub the surface of the scar or insert the toothpick? Did you use on ice-pick scars or rolling, shallow scars? Thanks so much. I'm just still a little confused about the procedure.

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I am wondering whether a 'slower-but-safer' variation of applying 10% glycolic acid directly into indentations and pits very aggresively regularly would work? It could be done 2, or even 3 times and on a daily basis, I think. Would it be strong enough to break down the scar tissue like the TCA? I noticed applying a considerable amount of 10% glycolic acid directly onto some indentations was enough to make them frost already.

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I am wondering whether a 'slower-but-safer' variation of applying 10% glycolic acid directly into indentations and pits very aggresively regularly would work? It could be done 2, or even 3 times and on a daily basis, I think. Would it be strong enough to break down the scar tissue like the TCA? I noticed applying a considerable amount of 10% glycolic acid directly onto some indentations was enough to make them frost already.

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Hi Tarmik, I used the Q -tip applicator , for the scars , I do not know how to classify scars (icepick, rolling etc). My scars are moderate ,not to deep and not to shallow.

Buh with TCA CROSS some scars seemed to have totally disappeared,

It is hard to believe.

teckpu, As imbue said glycolic acid does not have the same effect as TCA

as TCA is classified as medium depth peel and glycolic comes under light peel.

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Jasmine, if I remember rightly, you do this every 2 weeks with 25% TCA? How long is the down time on this? Does it frost and scab the same way as described with the 50 and 100%? (6-9 days down time)?

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The 50% TCA that I bought was care of another poster - I don't think it was from the same supplier as the 100% (Steve?)..

anyway, I emailed the 100% TCA supplier ([email protected]) asking them how I could be sure that it was 100% TCA - they're answer:

"it is 100% TCA. I have ordered it from a good chemical company and not messed with it at all"

My gut feeling is to believe them - they have been very good with responding to emails/communication and the delivery to the UK was as anticipated.

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Hi Maya,

You frost and scab the same way as 50% TCA.

The downtime is very low ,I applied TCA friday evening and by Monday

evening 90% of the scab fell off.

The seller recomended every two weeks , but i am trying it every week ,

see how it goes ,will keep you updated.

The annoying part of TCA CROSS for me is applying it.

There seems to be a lot of scars on the face generally,but when trying to apply the TCA to pits ,they magically disappear.

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The 50% TCA that I bought was care of another poster - I don't think it was from the same supplier as the 100% (Steve?)..

anyway, I emailed the 100% TCA supplier ([email protected])  asking them how I could be sure that it was 100% TCA - they're answer:  

\"it is 100% TCA. I have ordered it from a good chemical company and not messed with it at all\"

My gut feeling is to believe them - they have been very good with responding to emails/communication and the delivery to the UK was as anticipated.

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The annoying part of TCA CROSS for me is applying it.

There seems to be a lot of scars on the face generally,but when trying to apply the TCA to pits ,they magically disappear.

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Silas - wouldn't that then mean that TCA could NEVER be applied at 100%? - The TCA report talked about 100% and so does Stefany .. no one mentioned they had to dilute first/make the crystals into liquid.

I haven't opened the 100% bottle yet - how is it meant to smell? I don't even recall the smell of the50% TCA I have.

I'm on day 6 of no smoking - so my sense of smell should improve soon.

I am hoping me giving up smoking will help improve my collagen production.

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I received liquid TCA from a scientific chemical supply company and it said 100% TCA. However, the study specified that they were using unbuffered TCA as formulated by their pharmacist. I don't know what agents would be used for buffering.

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Anna

Are you saying that the TCA you recieved was buffered. I don't know what is used to buffer TCA with either but I can find out if we need to know. I believe when they speak of 100% TCA in liquid form it's just a matter of convenience as opposed to calling it 99.8 or 99.9%.

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Also I would like to add that it's illegal to ship 100% TCA without special hasmat precautions, so that's another reason to be at least a little skeptical of the ebay supplier.

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Hi Silas,

I don't know if the TCA I received was buffered. I just know though that the study specified unbuffered TCA and that is what I assume I got as I don't remember seeing any other ingredients listed. When I got my TCA delivered my husband had it sitting on the kitchen counter with the big HAZ MAT tape all over it! He asked me if I was building bombs now? O:) No, honey I'm just going to apply pure acid to my face. ---- He is never there when the mail comes and luck would dictate that he had to be the one to receive the shipment.

Thanks, Anna

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I don't know if the TCA I received was buffered. I just know though that the study specified unbuffered TCA and that is what I assume I got as I don't remember seeing any other ingredients listed. When I got my TCA delivered my husband had it sitting on the kitchen counter with the big HAZ MAT tape all over it! He asked me if I was building bombs now?  No, honey I'm just going to apply pure acid to my face.He is never there when the mail comes and luck would dictate that he had to be the one to receive the shipment.  

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Has anyone else had problems trying to get the tca I've emailed a few times with no reply I'm verydesperate for the stuff I've tried a lot of different physician reffered treatments without much success and I really would like to try this!!!I'm 34 yrs old so I'm pretty much at the eand of my rope!Please help anyone!!!

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781,

It WAS pretty funny! I bet the FBI has a file on me now.

8-[

I'll start wearing a lot of black, packing heat, and taking a different direction home each day. You just never know!

Anna

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TCA product concentration % is not standardized in the market so it could get confusing. The product could be lilsting the TCA concentration in weight by volumn, or volumn by volumn (diluted solution diluted further in % water, which is less than weight/volumn).

Typically when speaking for 100% TCA, medical literatures describe weight/volumn, meaning 100g TCA crystals disolved in 100cc water.

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Funny thread. I also ordered from the same supplier as Maya did but, my first email was a request for 100%. The response was that it was a special order and it would take 1 week to get. After 3 weeks I still had no TCA however, after a few nasty emails the vendor sent me out a "second" shipment via Fedex and it should be here tomorrow, Wednesday the 19th of November. Needless to say it will be applied the same evening and after having it done by Rappaport I kinda remember how it looked and felt.

I will post ASAP.

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I received my 100% TCA from the same supplier pretty quickly. I haven't used it yet though.

Its been almost 2 weeks since I did 3 pits with 50% TCA. The scabs are off, and so far, I really don't see any improvement that I can noticeably see. I'll step up to 100% TCA next time in 2 weeks. I also do some other pits with 50% TCA this weekend.

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I've done quite a bit of studying on TCA cross method and the general different types of chemical peels in light, medium and deep peels, both in Korean and English literatures/articles. What the cross method seem to try to reach is the deep peel, which penetrates the entire epidermis, papilary dermis (the most superficial portion of the dermis), as well as the reticular dermis extending down to the mid reticular dermis. When you're dealing with TCA concentration equal/less than 35-70% weight/volumn (more than 40% not recommended by most US medical due to the unreliability potential in wounding past the mid reticular dermis which will result in scar), you're mostly reachcing medium depth peel, which destroys the epidermis and the papilary dermis with inflamation. This medium depth peel will generally remove any epidermal growth, such as pigment irregularities as in freckles and MILD acne scarring, etc, but it most likely will not reach the reticular dermis and its regeneration which results in leveling out deep wrinkles and acne scarring. As you see, those of you trying the cross method with 25% or slightly higher concentration will not reach the desired effect of wounding the reticular dermis, although the chemical penetration is dependent on many other factors, such as skin preparation, skin types and area, etc. Also, as with the typical deep wounding as in phenol peel, you will risk invariably being left with a permanently lighter skin color which will not tan ever again. The choices are yours - whether have more leveled scar, or have patches of hypopigmentation/hyperpigmentation (especially with darker skin colors - Fitzpatrick skin type 3-6).

Cross method was accidently discovered during 1990 when Dr Jung-Bok Lee (could be translated/spelled differently) of Korea applied TCA solution on a small pox scarred female patient for the purpose of treating some skin pigmentation/discoloration. When he noticed the unexpected improvement/leveling in small pox scars, he tried researching further on the TCA usage but was only able to read-up on dermal regeneration, but not of scar revision which he had noticed on his patient. Since then, the Dr has himself performed/observed over 3000 TCA young/old patient cases before publishing his finding abroad on Dermatologic Surgery in Nov, 2002. He and other practicing dermatologists claim (from what I've read) that the Cross method will result in cumulative effect on the number of performed procedures on scars - meaning that each procedure will result in gradual leveling/filling of scars over time. They claim that the method is theoretically and factually reliable on producing gradual positive results (I don't trust the reliability fully) - one tca application won't yield the leveling result of 3 cumulative tca applications, and the 3 cumulative tca applications won't yield result back to first application level (I'm assuming only when the procedure is done correctly). It seems some also claim that 100% scar leveling is possible with the cross method, unlike in any other advanced scar revision methods available. It is recommended to do 4-5 procedures (more on extremely deep scars), spaced out 4-6 weeks apart between each procedure to allow the dermal regeneration. High concentration of tca is applied, dark brown scabs form, and then 7-10 days later the scabs should be allowed to fall off by themselves (must take care not let the scabs fall off prematurely). The filling effect will be seen continuously over 3 months after the procedure, and it is difficult to get satisfying result after only 1 procedure. It says he pokes down deep (I don't think he actually poke/penetrate skin with sharp instrument - don't do this!) with the TCA solution in order to allow deeper penetration of the TCA to accelerate the scar filling effect (for those of you who were wondering why the "press down hard" - In any chemical peeling, rubbing down hard with chemical is avoided cause it will increase penetration too greatly - It looks like the Dr deliberately did this to push the TCA reachability down to the reticular dermis and possibly the mid reticular dermis?). The cross method is not for removing the keloidal type scars (raised), and it is most effective on deep and narrow scars, such as in ice-picks, rather than shallow scars (probably better with lower TCA concentration of less than 40%) from what I've read. Rolling scars are probably best helped with subcision in order to free the tethering fibers holding down the scar from what I've learned so far. With TCA application, the depth of peel correlates to the intensity of skin frosting reached. TCA White frosting=reaction complete with protein precipitation with no needs for neutralization (except optionally cooling with water). Also, the time that it takes for the frosting to go away is also an indication for measuring TCA penetration level. If the frosting (blotchy white with red underneath) appears immediately and goes away in seconds - superficial. If the frosting (white with some red showing through) takes minutes to disapper - medium (through epidermis). If the frosting looks solid enamel white (with no visible erythema) and if it takes 20-30 min to dissapear, it has reached into the paipilary dermis. So the cross method will probably result in frosting that won't go away for at least 20-30 min (I can't find the exact time) since it probably reaches down to mid reticular dermis, although US practitioners do not want to see frosting lasting more than 20-30 min (they say if frosting doesn't go away within reasonable time, it is an indication for trouble and potential for scarring). Those of you trying to reach frosting with glycolic acid (or any other chemical) is only asking for trouble - glycolic peel depth is not measured in frosting level (doesn't result in the same protein precipitation as in TCA), but rather it's time-dependent on the acidity (lower ph the stronger) level - in fact, I've personally gained some scars due to strong glycolic acid peels in the past. Glycolic acid (and other chemicals) is made of completely different molecular structure, resulting in keratinocyte dyscohesion and epidermolysis with requirement of having to neutralize with water, not protein precipitation with pain stopping seconds later as in TCA. I know I've written a book here, but I was getting very frustrated/worried with people blindedly trying to perform the potentially dangerous cross method without understanding the full underlying medical principles of skin and its healing. You should fully be aware that the Cross method is still experimental without full medical community's support (yet) for the use of unreliable high TCA concentration level (over 40% typically avoided and it should not be used for more than for the purpose of reaching the upper reticular dermis in other studies) for specific dermal penetration (it's very possible to penetrate past mid reticular dermis) and there is real potential for irreversible scarring. I hope this writing answers many questions most of you've had...

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